........just because I found this to be very interesting..............I am not recommending this method, just wanted to share..............
Why Self-Recovery?
It is not well-known that self-recovery is commonplace. For ages, seriously addicted people have simply quit the use of alcohol and other drugs and then gotten on with their lives. Today, millions of seriously addicted people simply get fed up with the results of their addictions, make a decision to abstain no matter what, and move on to discover new and better satisfactions.
Free from the undertow of addiction, these independent people immediately feel better and do better in every respect. Their problems, including the problems they thought they were "medicating" with alcohol or other drugs, fade or vanish, and the anguish of addiction is soon covered by the sands of time. Freedom and dignity lost to addiction is finally regained.
These self-recovered people greatly outnumber the combined membership of the support group networks, but in our society, they are overlooked as if they don't exist. Rational Recovery identifies the self-recovered as a national treasure, for they obviously know something that is more important than all the scientific research ever done on the subjects of addiction and recovery. The self-recoved are the real experts on addiction recovery. They are the inspiration and the mentors of Rational Recovery.
The American Addiction Tragedy
It is tragic that the precious wisdom of the self-recovered has been obscured and replaced by the collective voice of those who remain in the state of addiction. They are people who have not recovered, but are only "in recovery," engaged in a peculiar lifestyle that provides social support for tentative, one-day-at-a-time sobriety, and chastises more ambitious commitments. They know nothing of true recovery, have no information on how to abstain from alcohol and drugs, and they actively prevent members from summarily quitting and moving on. Of course, I am speaking of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and the other 12-step organizations that pose as solutions to problems which they later admit they cannot resolve.
The recovery group movement has cell groups in every community, and through its network of thousands of nonprofit organizations, very aggressively advances its agenda in our social service system and public information services. Its enthusiastic members make false but strangely appealing claims about the nature of addiction and recovery.
For example, thousands of nonprofit organizations promulgate the beliefs that addiction to alcohol and other drugs is caused by a mysterious disease, that there are medical treatments for that disease, that recovery is best approached by purposely allowing the possibility of continued use of alcohol and other drugs, and that in order to stay sober, one must socialize primarily with other substance abusers, usually after dark. Other non-profit organizations have embarked upon no stigma campaigns, giving substance abusers protections against public disgrace, discrimination in the workplace, and other privileges often accorded truly sick and disabled people. At face value, something is gravely amiss here.
Groupers often tell skeptical newcomers, "If you can quit on your own, then you didn't have the problem in the first place." The "problem" in question here is alcoholism or addictive disease, which is said to render one powerless over the desire to drink or use, and incapable of quitting in the first place. In other words, by choosing to continue drinking against your own better judgment, you seem to prove you are incapable of quitting, and therefore exempt from any expectation by you, your family, the court, or God, that you would summarily quit once and for all. The newcomer is told, "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, which proves you cannot quit." This is a very nasty trap, because from within the bubble of addiction, permanent abstinence appears difficult and painful to undertake, while one-day-at-a-time "sobriety" is strangely comforting.
Betrayal by health professionals
The American addiction tragedy is not so much that the addicted are leading the addicted, but that the professional community has endorsed the Addictive Voice of the recovery group movement. Accordingly, our social service system now requires all addicted people to remain in addiction, in a tentatively abstinent condition known as "in recovery."
It is not surprising that when addicted people provide guidance to other addicted people, the abstinent outcome is near zero. Those who leave recovery groups or undertake recovery through self-restraint do much better than those who remain in recovery groups or addiction treatment programs, according to sources including AA's official publication, The Grapevine. In May, 2001 The Grapevine reported that over 60% of all successful recoveries occur independently, without the use of recovery groups, professional counseling, or addiction treatment programs. We think the actual percentage is 100%, a view supported by AA's 1989 Triennial Membership Survey, which disclosed that about 2% of newcomers are consistently abstinent after five years of program participation. When you hear, "Nothing is better than AA," believe it!
There are some AA clones ("alternatives") that also use the group format, but substitute humanistic psychology for the religiosity of AA, in an attempt to root out hidden, psychological causes of addiction. There is no substantial difference between AA/NA and the psych-recovery organizations, and both kinds are wedded to the addiction treatment industry. Whether medical or psychological, the disease concept of addiction is without scientific merit, and impressive research (Project MATCH) shows that psych-recovery organizations are just as ineffective as AA/NA. All treatment providers and recovery group organizations actively suppress information on self-recovery for obvious reasons of self-interest.
PART 2.................
Stay away from recovery groups.
If recovery groups and addiction treatment simply didn't work, that would be reason enough to avoid those avenues. The truth is that recovery groups and addiction treatment are harmful to practically everyone involved, including families. The reason is very simple, as follows.
People voluntarily attending their first recovery group meeting are already on the brink of full recovery! They obviously know they have a problem. They are obviously mobilized to take some constructive action. They already strongly suspect or fully understand that to escape the pain of addiction they will have to forego the use of alcohol and other drugs, most likely for the rest of their lives. When they walk through the door for their first meeting, they are looking for guidance from people who have actually recovered from addiction. The recovery group newcomer already has a foundation of knowledge gained from his original family and his life experience. He is not shopping for a new religion, does not want or need spoon-fed wisdom, and has no desire or need for adult supervision. Recovery group newcomers desperately want "inside information" from successfully recovered people on how to abstain from alcohol and other drugs. They desperately need encouragement that they are entirely capable of succeeding on their own efforts and have a 100% chance of success in reaching the goal of secure, permanent abstinence in a mercifully brief time.
The recovery group newcomer assumes that he is passing through a group that will help him function independently. He is unaware that the group has designs to possess him. Instead of encouragement in abstinence, he is hit broadside with the demand that he surrender his struggle against bodily desire, give up the idea that abstinence is a sufficient goal, and that he cast himself upon the mercy of a newfound higher power of his own sodden imagination. He is admonished to become dependent upon the group as an external, social restraint and to accept the group as the primary source of truth, wisdom, and guidance in all of his personal affairs. The groups demand for submission is called a "suggestion," but to desperate people the meanings are one and the same, e.g., "We suggest that after jumping you open your parachute."
Newcomers are shocked back from the brink of recovery and made ashamed of their foolish, sick desire to simply quit using once and for all. They are cast into a passive mode of socializing with others who share epiphanies, crippling beliefs, testimonials, and the amazing rhetoric of recovery group doctrine. Along with dismay at the inversions of truth, comes relief from the burden of self-restraint, as in the oft-repeated oath, "When I learned I have a disease, it was as if a great burden was lifted from my shoulders."
Families are always bewildered at the psycho-bio-social mysteries that surround habitual drunkenness or drug abuse. However, families may find solace in the idea that their family member is not the self-indulgent a** he/she appeared to be, but only a disease victim worthy of charitable indulgence, requiring the nightly support of other addicts, practicing a strange, new religion, and in need of expensive treatment by experts who, themselves, are only sober, one-day-at-a-time. Little do they know that the recovery group introduces itself to its members as your new family, and that the rituals of recoveryism include shifting responsibility for addiction upon ones ancestors and immediate family. Families often feel so burdened as enablers and codependents that they allow their addicted loved one to reserve the privilege of relapse, when certain, usually undefined, conditions exist.
Addiction shapes our perceptions.
What our common sense and better judgment tell us, the recovery group transforms into a special kind of upside-down truth. For example, to an addicted person, the use of alcohol and other drugs is not morally wrong, but intoxicated behavior is -- after the fact of self-intoxication, when judgment is already obliterated. In the recovery group, free will does not apply to the use of alcohol and other drugs, but only to program compliance. The desire to be in control is an example of powerlessness. Intelligence is a liability; caring for others is co-dependence. We use because of and in spite of enablers. Our strengths are our weaknesses. We are victims more than perpetrators. We create God, not vice-versa. We need support to do the right thing. We should congregate with other substance abusers, with the understanding that we are not exactly normal people.
For all recovery group newcomers, the first meeting is a strange and memorable event beset with conflicted values and feelings. On one hand, the rituals of inventories and sharing seem meaningful, even providential, but on the other hand, they also appear wrong-headed, strange, or simply irrelevant. While the group seems a haven of hope and personal betterment, a look around the room finds a forlorn, group-bound fellowship of men and women who have far more than their share of problems, who aspire to little more than one-day-at-a-time "sobriety," and who collectively represent an average of a month or two since their last use.
The newcomer faces a unified group that ridicules free will, and claims that their upside-down program "works if you work it," and that no one can "go it alone." The group teaches him to attribute all of his doubts and reservations about the organization or the program to "denial," starting with his resistance to calling himself "alcoholic" or "addict." At the moment he names himself "alcoholic," or "addict," his problem drinking or drug use is transformed into chronic addiction, and his life is defined by one-meeting-at-a-time recoveryism.
Life "in recovery" is life in addiction, complete with addict-identity, the sacrament of relapse, and the distortions of logic and perception that accompany the high life. These distortions combine as a serious, disabling condition, recovery group disorder, characterized by increasing self-doubt, social alienation, relapse anxiety, group dependence, increased drinking or using, free-fall-to-bottom, and depression. With time, many people "in recovery" are faced with an impossible choice between two equally intolerable alternatives - life in addiction and life in recovery. The choice is truly impossible because it is between two forms of the same thing, and the resulting hopelessness and depression can be, and often is, fatal.
Suicide among substance abusers is common: more than 75% of all suicides involve alcohol and other drugs and according to a 1984 National Institute of Mental Health finding, 25 percent of deaths among treated alcoholics are suicides, most occurring within one year of addiction treatment. Recovery groups and addiction treatment are a bad bet!
Go with the real experts on addiction recovery.
The good news is that self-recovery is surprisingly easy, without mystery, follows your own native beliefs and intuitions, and feels good immediately and in the long run as well. Your past difficulties in recovery groups or addiction treatment do not reflect upon your motivation or upon your ability to succeed, but are simply the results of misguidance. I am perfectly confident in your ability to independently abstain from alcohol and other drugs under all conditions, for the rest of your days, even though you may have serious self-doubt.
However, part of addiction is profound self-doubt and hopelessness about the possibllity of normal, satisfying adult life without the option of addictive pleasures. It will be necessary for you to believe in yourself in order to defeat your addiction. That means overcoming the discouragement of many years in the long rut of addiction, as well as the expert advice of the multitude of experts who surround you, all pointing to groups, shrinks, and rehabs. It also means defying the authority of AA, which has a terrible grip on our social service system, reaching through mass communications even those who are not members with its doctrines of disease, powerlessness, and surrender. Even your family will not trust you, so you will have to find within yourself the desire to succeed and believe that you will succeed.
Rational Recovery is the only source of information on self-recovery from addiction to alcohol and other drugs through planned, permanent abstinence. Our exclusive method, Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) is by far the most cost-effective, dignified, and efficient route to addiction recovery in existence.
This website is the staging area for your recovery, and a reliable resource for your family or anyone else affected by your addiction or interested in your well-being. You can learn some basics of AVRT in this public access area, or subscribe to the Rational Recovery Web Center, where you will find a broader range of information and assistance.
Jack Trimpey, former drunk
Founder, Rational Recovery
Copyright, 2004, Rational Recovery Systems, Inc.
All rights reserved. - Site Map
Carol,, I just saw that myself the other day
Wow, that was intersting. I use to come to this board several years ago under a different name site listed at bottom
Addiction: A Neurological Disorder
Recovery from Addiction
Withdrawing from physical dependence on the drug does not change the fundamental addictive disorder. The whole neurological, chemical and emotional being of an addict, or an alcoholic has become permanently disordered. An addict or an alcoholic has developed a very, very severe disease. He must take the matter very, very seriously. A quick 7 day "detox" will never be an answer. The alcoholic-addict in the longer term, is like a rat that has become habituated by a scientist to choosing cocaine over food. The rat in the short term, can NOT control the neurological impulse to choose the cocaine! The rat will continue to seek it, ignoring food and water, until he dies! The rat's nerve-impulse to use the cocaine has nothing to do with free will. The addict-alcoholic suffers from an identical disorder in the long term. The addict cannot control these spontaneous overwhelming neurological impulses to use, any more than the rat can on the short term! (The neurological impulse is called a craving.) Just by examining an addicted rat you can't see the obvious problem. But the new neurological pathways that have now been established are permanent and life threatening! These are just as physical and real as any disease. Addiction is a self-contracted neurological disease. It IS a 'created' disorder. Nonetheless, it is also a physical problem on a neurological level, and it is very real. A chemically dependent person can NOT stop the over-powering cravings for the substance in the long term, any more than someone with Parkinson's disease can stop tremors. "Self knowledge avails us nothing."
The addiction will never somehow go away without intervention of some kind. An addict will not ever recover if he can just "kick" for a few days. The whole emotional, physical, and neurological system has already been altered too drastically for any temporary kick to even scratch the surface of the underlying disorder. At the very minimum, an introductory 30 day dry-out period must somehow be enforced. Minimizing, hoping, or rationalizing that the problem might be somehow be overcome by more modest measures is wishful thinking. Addictive impulses are generated physiologically. They often lie dormant for many days or weeks as the addict attempts to recuperate from the painful physical or emotional trauma the addictions themselves have inflicted. But, the underlying neurological conditions remain very much intact. Neurologically based impulses to use or drink require at least 4 weeks of enforced abstinence just to begin to dissipate enough to be manageable. Then another 6, extremely critical, weeks are required to adjust to living without the chemical. Depression, anger, boredom, and then "happy-excited feelings" are predictable. These feelings always follow initial detox. All of these will feelings will eventually trigger an uncontrollable addictive impulse in early sobriety. There is NO way to turn off these inevitable overpowering addictive impulses! During this period the addict needs help. With the help they need, the chemically dependent person can improve dramatically, if he can work through the initial weeks of mandatory depression, cope with reoccurring anger, and maintain at least 10 weeks of abstinence. Seventy days seems like an eternity in early recovery, but shorter periods of abstinence do nothing to subdue the underlying neurological conditions.
With this in mind, it is essential that an addict prepare himself for almost 3 months of initial recuperation. It's precisely when the addict feels that his system is stabilizing that he is in the gravest danger. This usually occurs at about 45 days clean. It is then when the addict must begin to resolve underlying emotional and social conflicts. For an addict: stress causes craving! To become free of addiction, an addict must resolve the conflicts in his life! He can do this by accepting responsibility for his actions, and by facing and resolving his deepest anxieties. He must make amends to himself, to his family, and to society. The only way for an addict to relieve the stresses which cause him to use is to identify the interior and exterior conflicts in his life and resolve them. "You have to name it, to claim it." When conflicts are resolved serenity becomes possible. By achieving new levels of interior serenity, compulsive behaviors can be overcome. It is serenity which enables an addict to be relieved of compulsions. Serenity can only be achieved by the resolution of conflict. Over time, and the resolution of conflicts, addiction becomes manageable. Most addicts are not consciously aware of many of the conflicts from which they actually suffer.
For permanent relief an outside support system is the most helpful. According to Alcoholic's Anonymous, the alcoholic-addict must come to accept that the underlying condition of the disease consists precisely in always being defenseless against taking the "first one." No matter how much clean time one accrues, he forever remains defenseless against using again. According the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, at some point, at some time, for perhaps NO reason, the alcoholic-addict WILL ALWAYS use again! That is exactly what true alcoholism-addiction is! The addict-alcoholic remains forever defenseless against using again that first time! His only defense against 'the first one' must come from a power greater (or other) than himself.
The complete healing process comes from an internal dependency shift. Ten weeks of abstinence are required to subdue the strong neurological impulses to use. After a minimum ten week neurological pacification, (detox), the reoccurring compulsion to use the chemical can be permanently relieved. This is accomplished through a neurological "re-wiring." The alcoholic-addict must stop imagining that they can somehow permanently stay clean by themselves. This doesn't mean that they need to attend meetings for the rest of their lives. Eternal meetings are NOT the point. But, a radical dependency shift must be effected within the addicts own heart and mind. He must psychologically shift away from relying on the validity of his own thought process about his addiction! To effectively "re-wire" his disordered nervous system, he must come to rely fiercely and absolutely upon the directions provided from an external support system. By mentally changing what he relies upon, his nervous system undergoes a profound change.
Consider this example:
Two new people attend a support meeting. (It's not the type of meeting, or support group, that is important.) The first person thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." He is now depending upon the validity of his own internal thought process. He drives away, and continues to try to stay clean on his own, and to continue to depend on the validity of his own thought process. Then he has sorrowful trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, which breaks his heart. Something bad happens, or something good happens, (it doesn't matter), and he thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now!" (This is the person depending upon the validity of his own thought process.) His addictive impulse is triggered. In a matter of time the strong cravings (neurological impulses) overwhelm him and he begins to use again.
Now, consider the second person who attends the support meeting. He also thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." But, this person says OUT LOUD to the group: "I don't want to be here! You people seem unattractive! The thought of having to associate with you disgusts me!" And the whole group, with one voice says to him in reply: "That's how you are supposed to feel! That's OK! You should feel that way! You're new! This is new! We are unattractive! The thought of associating with us should disgust you! It's OK to feel that way. But, from now on you must become willing to take directions! You must become willing to listen to us! You can NOT be in control of your own addiction anymore! You must let go absolutely, and no longer depend upon your own devices, or you will never recover from your addiction!" THIS PERSON ACCEPTS WHAT THEY SAY! He is willing to shift his internal dependency away from relying on himself for recovery. This begins to re-wire his neurology. His nervous system learns new responses to old stimuli. Then: he too has trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, and this breaks his heart. He also thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now." BUT HE IS UNDER ORDERS! His habits kick in! He calls for support! The support system says with one voice: feeling bad IS ok ... but using is NOT OK! You can't do that. You will not do that! You would be better to drive up right now to the local mental institution and check yourself in .... because what you are thinking about doing right now is sheer insanity! Because he has now shifted his dependency, and he no longer relies upon the validity of his own thought process, he obeys! He takes directions! The re-wiring of the dependency shift has taken hold: and he stays clean! He has established new neurological pathways and is able to stand fast through the critical moments. He has has effected the necessary dependency shift! His formerly disordered neurological system has become re-wired. When he is triggered, he automatically goes to the support system, even if it IS the local mental hospital, but he stays clean. Through a total dependency shift, he is soon permanently relieved of the obsession to use the chemicals. He recovers!
From www. medical-online/addiction
Addiction: A Neurological Disorder
Recovery from Addiction
Withdrawing from physical dependence on the drug does not change the fundamental addictive disorder. The whole neurological, chemical and emotional being of an addict, or an alcoholic has become permanently disordered. An addict or an alcoholic has developed a very, very severe disease. He must take the matter very, very seriously. A quick 7 day "detox" will never be an answer. The alcoholic-addict in the longer term, is like a rat that has become habituated by a scientist to choosing cocaine over food. The rat in the short term, can NOT control the neurological impulse to choose the cocaine! The rat will continue to seek it, ignoring food and water, until he dies! The rat's nerve-impulse to use the cocaine has nothing to do with free will. The addict-alcoholic suffers from an identical disorder in the long term. The addict cannot control these spontaneous overwhelming neurological impulses to use, any more than the rat can on the short term! (The neurological impulse is called a craving.) Just by examining an addicted rat you can't see the obvious problem. But the new neurological pathways that have now been established are permanent and life threatening! These are just as physical and real as any disease. Addiction is a self-contracted neurological disease. It IS a 'created' disorder. Nonetheless, it is also a physical problem on a neurological level, and it is very real. A chemically dependent person can NOT stop the over-powering cravings for the substance in the long term, any more than someone with Parkinson's disease can stop tremors. "Self knowledge avails us nothing."
The addiction will never somehow go away without intervention of some kind. An addict will not ever recover if he can just "kick" for a few days. The whole emotional, physical, and neurological system has already been altered too drastically for any temporary kick to even scratch the surface of the underlying disorder. At the very minimum, an introductory 30 day dry-out period must somehow be enforced. Minimizing, hoping, or rationalizing that the problem might be somehow be overcome by more modest measures is wishful thinking. Addictive impulses are generated physiologically. They often lie dormant for many days or weeks as the addict attempts to recuperate from the painful physical or emotional trauma the addictions themselves have inflicted. But, the underlying neurological conditions remain very much intact. Neurologically based impulses to use or drink require at least 4 weeks of enforced abstinence just to begin to dissipate enough to be manageable. Then another 6, extremely critical, weeks are required to adjust to living without the chemical. Depression, anger, boredom, and then "happy-excited feelings" are predictable. These feelings always follow initial detox. All of these will feelings will eventually trigger an uncontrollable addictive impulse in early sobriety. There is NO way to turn off these inevitable overpowering addictive impulses! During this period the addict needs help. With the help they need, the chemically dependent person can improve dramatically, if he can work through the initial weeks of mandatory depression, cope with reoccurring anger, and maintain at least 10 weeks of abstinence. Seventy days seems like an eternity in early recovery, but shorter periods of abstinence do nothing to subdue the underlying neurological conditions.
With this in mind, it is essential that an addict prepare himself for almost 3 months of initial recuperation. It's precisely when the addict feels that his system is stabilizing that he is in the gravest danger. This usually occurs at about 45 days clean. It is then when the addict must begin to resolve underlying emotional and social conflicts. For an addict: stress causes craving! To become free of addiction, an addict must resolve the conflicts in his life! He can do this by accepting responsibility for his actions, and by facing and resolving his deepest anxieties. He must make amends to himself, to his family, and to society. The only way for an addict to relieve the stresses which cause him to use is to identify the interior and exterior conflicts in his life and resolve them. "You have to name it, to claim it." When conflicts are resolved serenity becomes possible. By achieving new levels of interior serenity, compulsive behaviors can be overcome. It is serenity which enables an addict to be relieved of compulsions. Serenity can only be achieved by the resolution of conflict. Over time, and the resolution of conflicts, addiction becomes manageable. Most addicts are not consciously aware of many of the conflicts from which they actually suffer.
For permanent relief an outside support system is the most helpful. According to Alcoholic's Anonymous, the alcoholic-addict must come to accept that the underlying condition of the disease consists precisely in always being defenseless against taking the "first one." No matter how much clean time one accrues, he forever remains defenseless against using again. According the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, at some point, at some time, for perhaps NO reason, the alcoholic-addict WILL ALWAYS use again! That is exactly what true alcoholism-addiction is! The addict-alcoholic remains forever defenseless against using again that first time! His only defense against 'the first one' must come from a power greater (or other) than himself.
The complete healing process comes from an internal dependency shift. Ten weeks of abstinence are required to subdue the strong neurological impulses to use. After a minimum ten week neurological pacification, (detox), the reoccurring compulsion to use the chemical can be permanently relieved. This is accomplished through a neurological "re-wiring." The alcoholic-addict must stop imagining that they can somehow permanently stay clean by themselves. This doesn't mean that they need to attend meetings for the rest of their lives. Eternal meetings are NOT the point. But, a radical dependency shift must be effected within the addicts own heart and mind. He must psychologically shift away from relying on the validity of his own thought process about his addiction! To effectively "re-wire" his disordered nervous system, he must come to rely fiercely and absolutely upon the directions provided from an external support system. By mentally changing what he relies upon, his nervous system undergoes a profound change.
Consider this example:
Two new people attend a support meeting. (It's not the type of meeting, or support group, that is important.) The first person thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." He is now depending upon the validity of his own internal thought process. He drives away, and continues to try to stay clean on his own, and to continue to depend on the validity of his own thought process. Then he has sorrowful trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, which breaks his heart. Something bad happens, or something good happens, (it doesn't matter), and he thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now!" (This is the person depending upon the validity of his own thought process.) His addictive impulse is triggered. In a matter of time the strong cravings (neurological impulses) overwhelm him and he begins to use again.
Now, consider the second person who attends the support meeting. He also thinks to himself: "I don't want to be here. These people are unattractive. The thought of having to associate with them forever disgusts me." But, this person says OUT LOUD to the group: "I don't want to be here! You people seem unattractive! The thought of having to associate with you disgusts me!" And the whole group, with one voice says to him in reply: "That's how you are supposed to feel! That's OK! You should feel that way! You're new! This is new! We are unattractive! The thought of associating with us should disgust you! It's OK to feel that way. But, from now on you must become willing to take directions! You must become willing to listen to us! You can NOT be in control of your own addiction anymore! You must let go absolutely, and no longer depend upon your own devices, or you will never recover from your addiction!" THIS PERSON ACCEPTS WHAT THEY SAY! He is willing to shift his internal dependency away from relying on himself for recovery. This begins to re-wire his neurology. His nervous system learns new responses to old stimuli. Then: he too has trouble in his relationships, which break his heart. He fails to succeed as he thinks he ought to, and this breaks his heart. He also thinks to himself: "I can't deal with sobriety right now." BUT HE IS UNDER ORDERS! His habits kick in! He calls for support! The support system says with one voice: feeling bad IS ok ... but using is NOT OK! You can't do that. You will not do that! You would be better to drive up right now to the local mental institution and check yourself in .... because what you are thinking about doing right now is sheer insanity! Because he has now shifted his dependency, and he no longer relies upon the validity of his own thought process, he obeys! He takes directions! The re-wiring of the dependency shift has taken hold: and he stays clean! He has established new neurological pathways and is able to stand fast through the critical moments. He has has effected the necessary dependency shift! His formerly disordered neurological system has become re-wired. When he is triggered, he automatically goes to the support system, even if it IS the local mental hospital, but he stays clean. Through a total dependency shift, he is soon permanently relieved of the obsession to use the chemicals. He recovers!
From www. medical-online/addiction
edit.
Been there.Done it.Got the free workbook.LOL
Rational Recovery was one of my brilliant decisions in the early 90's.I thought it would be an excellent alternative because they eliminate the HP concept and basically say you are the HP.Unfortunately,that's what got me into the mess I was in.Also I found out after the 3rd meeting, it was quite acceptable to drink.In fact,no one in my group had over a week.I thought I had hit the jackpot.I mean slug a couple of high-balls and hit a meeting.This was awesome................
Those other groups had the audacity to suggest complete abstinence.That's no fun.Who wants to sit around and listen to a bunch of bitter,sober alcoholics share about their misery without some lubrication?LOL
I don't need to tell you the rest.
IMO ...Those statistics are bogus.No one could possibly have accurate statistics on who stays sober? Including AA/NA....since they are anonymous programs.
They also are not religious programs as RR would like you to believe.
AA/NA is not the only way.I personally know someone who has been sober over 20 years without ever walking into a meeting.I know nothing about their personal life?
Whatever method you chose,self honesty is paramount.
I guess I'm old school.Complete abstinence is not ambiguous.It actually means no drugs or alcohol.However,times have changed.Our society has a pharmacological solution for everything in the world and enough desperate and naiive people buying into it.
I was one of them.
Rational Recovery was one of my brilliant decisions in the early 90's.I thought it would be an excellent alternative because they eliminate the HP concept and basically say you are the HP.Unfortunately,that's what got me into the mess I was in.Also I found out after the 3rd meeting, it was quite acceptable to drink.In fact,no one in my group had over a week.I thought I had hit the jackpot.I mean slug a couple of high-balls and hit a meeting.This was awesome................
Those other groups had the audacity to suggest complete abstinence.That's no fun.Who wants to sit around and listen to a bunch of bitter,sober alcoholics share about their misery without some lubrication?LOL
I don't need to tell you the rest.
IMO ...Those statistics are bogus.No one could possibly have accurate statistics on who stays sober? Including AA/NA....since they are anonymous programs.
They also are not religious programs as RR would like you to believe.
AA/NA is not the only way.I personally know someone who has been sober over 20 years without ever walking into a meeting.I know nothing about their personal life?
Whatever method you chose,self honesty is paramount.
I guess I'm old school.Complete abstinence is not ambiguous.It actually means no drugs or alcohol.However,times have changed.Our society has a pharmacological solution for everything in the world and enough desperate and naiive people buying into it.
I was one of them.
I think if Rational Recovery works for someone, more power to them. I just don't think it would work for me. When I got sober my thinking needed changing. I had to learn not to run to a drug whenever life happened. If I already knew how, I would have quit drinking and drugging years before I hit my bottom. AA did that for me. Personally, I like the steps and I like the fellowship of the meetings. I like the friends I have made in recovery that I would not have met if I stayed home and got cured all alone.
If you look there are plenty of sites that bash AA online. It's nothing new. We all have the choice of what to believe in. That's what America's all about. All I know is the only thing that worked for me was AA and it's been working for a while.
If you look there are plenty of sites that bash AA online. It's nothing new. We all have the choice of what to believe in. That's what America's all about. All I know is the only thing that worked for me was AA and it's been working for a while.
Hi Kat & all I would NEVER bash AA Na or anything that works for people.I do believe NA helps so many,but I also know in my heart that for others it just isnt the right way for them.Do I think they should try it all alone???Goodness no,but I feel if a person is more secure in private therapy,or dealing with an addiction specialist than that should also be respected.
Carol thank you for this post & I love you
Hello dear Kat hope your well...still not smoking????
Carol thank you for this post & I love you
Hello dear Kat hope your well...still not smoking????
And that is why I posted this. We are all different and need different strategies. What works for one may not work for the other. While AA has obviously been helpful and successful for many, it's not the only way. Like Tim, I have friends who have been sober for years without meetings. Then again, I have other friends who go to AA high, been doing it for years. It's like they are just as addicted to sitting in the meeting as they are to the drug they ingest.
I think if we all are respectful and open minded about what the other person chooses to use as their "crutch" to stay off of their poison , we would be a much happier, kinder group of addicts. When one of us starts throwing up sarcastic remarks to another addict about their "crutch" of choice, it causes hurt feelings and drama, and simply makes the finger pointer look bad.
Kat/12-Stepper:
That was truly a wonderful message. Thank you.
I went to AA for 14 years, sponsored men, worked the steps, etc. I no longer attend, but I would never shut the door. Almost everything I know about addiction I learned in those rooms. I can't think of a better classroom. It offers a very concrete plan for recovery, and it gave me hope at a time when I desperately needed it. I formed some of my closest friendships in those rooms. I would recommend to anyone trying to get sober that they give AA/NA a legitimate chance. What's to lose? "It's for fun and free," and it may save your life.
But I no longer believe that it's the "only" proven way to successfully overcome addiction. Nor do I need to believe that in order to feel hope and confidence in the path I'm on. That is why I liked Kat's message so much. It shares personal experience, and it was personal experience that I always found most convincing. None
That was truly a wonderful message. Thank you.
I went to AA for 14 years, sponsored men, worked the steps, etc. I no longer attend, but I would never shut the door. Almost everything I know about addiction I learned in those rooms. I can't think of a better classroom. It offers a very concrete plan for recovery, and it gave me hope at a time when I desperately needed it. I formed some of my closest friendships in those rooms. I would recommend to anyone trying to get sober that they give AA/NA a legitimate chance. What's to lose? "It's for fun and free," and it may save your life.
But I no longer believe that it's the "only" proven way to successfully overcome addiction. Nor do I need to believe that in order to feel hope and confidence in the path I'm on. That is why I liked Kat's message so much. It shares personal experience, and it was personal experience that I always found most convincing. None
posted by Tim
The real money question. Thank you.
Also thank you to 12 stepper for sharing her experience strength and hope. Because of AA, I made my first new friends in 15 years. You would think that having a group of addicts/alcoholics around would be a varied mix of differentially dysfunctional people, but I have found some of the most "balanced" people I have ever met. I have a new very close friend who is very dear to me. My very non-addicted spouse has found some of these people very dear as well and actually enjoys spending social time with them very much. They never miss our Friday potluck if they can help it.
We won't even mention how working the steps has provided me chances to change thought and behavior patterns that I was using long before I started using drugs and encouraged me to use other resources as well to aid in this in toto recovery
What/how other people do it is their own business and I have to say that I am applying my old ElimGarak detachment here, I don't care. This part is all about me.
I feel now no need to "defend" AA, it doesn't need it. It will survive, it doesn't need me to "defend" it. My best "defense" of it is to suit up, show up and to be of service.
| QUOTE |
Whatever method you chose,self honesty is paramount. |
The real money question. Thank you.
Also thank you to 12 stepper for sharing her experience strength and hope. Because of AA, I made my first new friends in 15 years. You would think that having a group of addicts/alcoholics around would be a varied mix of differentially dysfunctional people, but I have found some of the most "balanced" people I have ever met. I have a new very close friend who is very dear to me. My very non-addicted spouse has found some of these people very dear as well and actually enjoys spending social time with them very much. They never miss our Friday potluck if they can help it.
We won't even mention how working the steps has provided me chances to change thought and behavior patterns that I was using long before I started using drugs and encouraged me to use other resources as well to aid in this in toto recovery
What/how other people do it is their own business and I have to say that I am applying my old ElimGarak detachment here, I don't care. This part is all about me.
I feel now no need to "defend" AA, it doesn't need it. It will survive, it doesn't need me to "defend" it. My best "defense" of it is to suit up, show up and to be of service.
Elim-Thanks for that.It is true.No matter what you think of AA,its been around since the 30's.Somethings working.
The 12 steps of recovery are what I believe brings about change.I have no doubt one could stay sober and clean on their own but IMO it's the difference between Climbing Mount Everest or being chaufered to the top in a limousine.
My best thinking guaranteed me my worst choices.Addiction does not make Rational sense.I had to let go of my old higher power,which was Me ,and maybe try it a different way.
I made a decision.I don't just want to just be sober....I want to be happy.The twelve steps can acomplish that.
NA/AA are not perfect,nor is anything,but the 12th steps come pretty close.JMO
The 12 steps of recovery are what I believe brings about change.I have no doubt one could stay sober and clean on their own but IMO it's the difference between Climbing Mount Everest or being chaufered to the top in a limousine.
My best thinking guaranteed me my worst choices.Addiction does not make Rational sense.I had to let go of my old higher power,which was Me ,and maybe try it a different way.
I made a decision.I don't just want to just be sober....I want to be happy.The twelve steps can acomplish that.
NA/AA are not perfect,nor is anything,but the 12th steps come pretty close.JMO
Tim please realize Im saying this with respect for AA totally but you said something that I guess put a question in my mind
I made a decision.I don't just want to just be sober....I want to be happy.The twelve steps can acomplish that.
Which I respect but the way it sounds it sounds as if you are saying that unless you work steps & are part of AA/NA you cannot be happy.
Is it just the way Im reading it?I mean Im not going the AA route but yet right now at this point in my life Im more content & well honestly happy with my life...
I made a decision.I don't just want to just be sober....I want to be happy.The twelve steps can acomplish that.
Which I respect but the way it sounds it sounds as if you are saying that unless you work steps & are part of AA/NA you cannot be happy.
Is it just the way Im reading it?I mean Im not going the AA route but yet right now at this point in my life Im more content & well honestly happy with my life...
"NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES".
edited to add quotes.
edited to add quotes.
MJ-I can only share what works for me.Unfortunately,I have no control over what you think I'm saying? I'm not being facetious either.I'm saying exactly what I'm saying......the twelve steps brought about a profound change in my life.
Of course I don't believe that is the only way to be happy.My best friend is a born again Christian.I have another buddy who is a converted Buddhist,which I even connect into.
I do have some core beliefs about addiction.I don't think you are ever cured and I think you have to stop using to bring about change.If you choose to do that through therapy or some other way,fine.Just do something.I don't think its going to happen by proximity.
I have a strong personality.It doesn't mean I'm lecturing.When I'm sharing,I try to make it about me.I don't always succeed.
I hope that helps.
Of course I don't believe that is the only way to be happy.My best friend is a born again Christian.I have another buddy who is a converted Buddhist,which I even connect into.
I do have some core beliefs about addiction.I don't think you are ever cured and I think you have to stop using to bring about change.If you choose to do that through therapy or some other way,fine.Just do something.I don't think its going to happen by proximity.
I have a strong personality.It doesn't mean I'm lecturing.When I'm sharing,I try to make it about me.I don't always succeed.
I hope that helps.
I don't just want to just be sober....I want to be happy
Thank you Tim....Bingo!
For me, I never believed that I would be "happy" nor did I believe I deserved it...but today, for me, every day is a blessing and no matter how much chaos and ugliness is going on around me, I have serenity in my life...stopping the pills was only the very beginning of the recovery process for me....
Elim...I no longer need to defend the AA way either...the laughter & joy in the rooms speak volumes and to watch somebody first come in and then see the miracles occur within them is why I keep comin back....
Kat...
Thank you for sharing your ESH...I no longer look at the differences but rather the similarities and I find a lot of my story in what you shared...thank you for always showing me how it works if you work it...xoxo
Have a blessed day, everyone....
Stacey
Thank you Tim....Bingo!
For me, I never believed that I would be "happy" nor did I believe I deserved it...but today, for me, every day is a blessing and no matter how much chaos and ugliness is going on around me, I have serenity in my life...stopping the pills was only the very beginning of the recovery process for me....
Elim...I no longer need to defend the AA way either...the laughter & joy in the rooms speak volumes and to watch somebody first come in and then see the miracles occur within them is why I keep comin back....
Kat...
Thank you for sharing your ESH...I no longer look at the differences but rather the similarities and I find a lot of my story in what you shared...thank you for always showing me how it works if you work it...xoxo
Have a blessed day, everyone....
Stacey
Thank you Tim & your right you cannot control how I read things thats why I asked.It seem that way to me & Im glad you took the time to write what you felt & meant by that.
I did not think in anyway that you were lecturing & honest I find it refreashing to see some of your post & know you firmly believe in what you believe.
Like you I do NOT think we are EVER better,cured or whatever.I feel that addiction will always be a life long battle.Sometimes its a minute to minute fight,but I feel its something that I know myself will always be fighting.
Unlike you to me being on Sub in my eyes makes me clean(so to spreak)I dont use it to get high & I have tapered down so much than Im very proud of myself.
I suppose its how one looks at ones self.For some being clean means taking nothing,to me being clean is NOT abusing or trying to get a buzz from my meds.
Thank you for your thoughts & input Tim
Molly
I did not think in anyway that you were lecturing & honest I find it refreashing to see some of your post & know you firmly believe in what you believe.
Like you I do NOT think we are EVER better,cured or whatever.I feel that addiction will always be a life long battle.Sometimes its a minute to minute fight,but I feel its something that I know myself will always be fighting.
Unlike you to me being on Sub in my eyes makes me clean(so to spreak)I dont use it to get high & I have tapered down so much than Im very proud of myself.
I suppose its how one looks at ones self.For some being clean means taking nothing,to me being clean is NOT abusing or trying to get a buzz from my meds.
Thank you for your thoughts & input Tim
Molly
Sober and happy? What a concept.
Love it.
Love it.
MJ quotes-"Unlike you to me being on Sub in my eyes makes me clean(so to spreak)I dont use it to get high & I have tapered down so much than Im very proud of myself"
You should be proud.You also use sub for chronic pain which I have no problem with.My whole beef with Sub is people who take it and then rely on it as some sort of chemical recovery.
I actually think if used for a minimum amount of time,it can be helpful.I just dont advertise that.
I also don't trust doctors and do not believe they have our best interest in mind.They are scientist trained to treat symptoms with prescriptions....but that's my stuff.LOL
You should be proud.You also use sub for chronic pain which I have no problem with.My whole beef with Sub is people who take it and then rely on it as some sort of chemical recovery.
I actually think if used for a minimum amount of time,it can be helpful.I just dont advertise that.
I also don't trust doctors and do not believe they have our best interest in mind.They are scientist trained to treat symptoms with prescriptions....but that's my stuff.LOL
Thank you Tim that meant alot to me as Ive worked hard to get to where I am with the Sub.
As far as trusting Dr....Heck no.I would NEVER try to blame my Drs for my addictions but they did for a very long time make it easier to get pills.Some Drs you can walk in say(**************)& bam you got a script for whatever.I am one who firmly believe that the Drs work FOR us we choose them & if we dont like the care we are getting...well like any other job we can fire them & find new ones.
As I said I would never nor could ever blame my Drs for my addictions,I must & do hold only myself to blame on that
As far as trusting Dr....Heck no.I would NEVER try to blame my Drs for my addictions but they did for a very long time make it easier to get pills.Some Drs you can walk in say(**************)& bam you got a script for whatever.I am one who firmly believe that the Drs work FOR us we choose them & if we dont like the care we are getting...well like any other job we can fire them & find new ones.
As I said I would never nor could ever blame my Drs for my addictions,I must & do hold only myself to blame on that
