Have you heard that marijuana is the gateway drug? Leading to coke, acid, mushrooms etc...That's what they preach around here, that it's all about the pot. Nope. Not my situation, how about yours? Tonight I came to the conclusion that alcohol was the gateway drug for me.....
not for me either, not i experimented with lsd, shrooms, etc. but never liked the others, so does that mean it was a gateway to experimentation of the others i just didnt like them? but alcohol was first.!!!!!! at the ripe ole age of 11, me and my friend sneakin her mom's boyfriends beer, it made us sick, just one. and what about cigarettes???
Lonesome Charley and strawberry angel, ever heard of those wines? LOL
I've just been thinking that alcohol was pretty well involved with all the traumas I've suffered. Not to blame myself of course, just an observation.
But yeah, cigarettes too, good point!
I've just been thinking that alcohol was pretty well involved with all the traumas I've suffered. Not to blame myself of course, just an observation.
But yeah, cigarettes too, good point!
havent heard of those two, but for me it was strawberry hill (boones farm wine), and white mountain wine coolers orange flavor, they were the cheapest a teenager could buy, haha, and tasted like kool aid
Alcohol and cigarettes are probably the first things most teenagers try as they are so readily available and socially more acceptable. But I have come to the conclusion that addict is a personality type, no maybe not even that but a set of collective behaviors, and that you can be an addict who uses, a dry addict, a user who is not an addict, or a non-user who is not an addict. If you fall into the last category you will be clueless about the other three, I think.
Then the inevitable conclusion is that a non-user who is a non-addict can never have a truly intimate (romatic or otherwise) relationship with an addict, at least. Which really limits the addicts opportunites, doesn't it?
Then the inevitable conclusion is that a non-user who is a non-addict can never have a truly intimate (romatic or otherwise) relationship with an addict, at least. Which really limits the addicts opportunites, doesn't it?
not if the non using non addict is liberal open minded understanding supportive human being. which i guess is hard to find, which i guess makes things a bit limited, but hey, isnt finding the 'RIGHT" person a bit of a limting search anyway and as a person "recovering" shouldn't we be more selfish than ever and expect to find or at least wait to find that above mentioned person IF that is the one we want?????
Ok so here it goes. I get so confused, because our marriage counsellor says me intervening in my husbands ritual, by greeting him at the door, is a loving gesture and gives us time together both sober. THEN I get educated about codependancy and I think by doing this "stop him at the door " thing it's me trying to control the addict (again) which is so unhealthy. Are ya with me so far? :-) Sooooo if I don't spend every waking moment trying to come up with ways to stop him from getting high, then that means I'm definitely not co-d, right? He's gonna do what he's gonna do. I can't control him, can't cure him, didn't cause it. (I think that's an alanon phrase) I totally understand what you're saying Jamv about the whole spiritual/religious thing btw. I guess the term would be "organized religion" that raises an eyebrow for me.
Sorry, went off on a tangent there. Anyway...
Meeting him the garage for other... ahem....things. :-) is a most excellent idea, but it just sounds so contrived and almost manipulative...but worth a shot. (thanks hippienerd)
The reason I get so freaked out about co-d behaviour is because I spent months out of my life searching the computer for his porn stash, searching phone bills to see if his other woman called, searching for books about sex addiction, wondering if he was secretly doing coke too, wondering if he went to prostitutes, strip clubs, lunches with other women etc,etc.....basically I went insane with my behaviours. Doesn't even cross my mind now. He's a different man, now. I just have this intuition.
So whether I'm an addict remains in question again, because i went to a CRAZY party last night, drank water, danced and didn't miss the booze or drugs. No one even noticed I wasn't drinking, in fact, a friend offered to buy me a drink near the end when I smiled and said, hey the water's been free all night. He almost fell out of his chair. If I was a true blue addict wouldn't I be stressing and salivating for a beverage and a toke? Or is this the "pink cloud" I've heard about. Where you think you're safe, and cured and highly confident, but it's a dangerous zone to be in....
I had to get up this morning to drive my daughter to ringette, what a treat to not been hungover and grumpy!!!!! I'm sore....but that's from dancing so much!
My husband didn't drink either which was surprised me AND he asked me to dance, which also surprised me. :-)
Sorry, went off on a tangent there. Anyway...
Meeting him the garage for other... ahem....things. :-) is a most excellent idea, but it just sounds so contrived and almost manipulative...but worth a shot. (thanks hippienerd)
The reason I get so freaked out about co-d behaviour is because I spent months out of my life searching the computer for his porn stash, searching phone bills to see if his other woman called, searching for books about sex addiction, wondering if he was secretly doing coke too, wondering if he went to prostitutes, strip clubs, lunches with other women etc,etc.....basically I went insane with my behaviours. Doesn't even cross my mind now. He's a different man, now. I just have this intuition.
So whether I'm an addict remains in question again, because i went to a CRAZY party last night, drank water, danced and didn't miss the booze or drugs. No one even noticed I wasn't drinking, in fact, a friend offered to buy me a drink near the end when I smiled and said, hey the water's been free all night. He almost fell out of his chair. If I was a true blue addict wouldn't I be stressing and salivating for a beverage and a toke? Or is this the "pink cloud" I've heard about. Where you think you're safe, and cured and highly confident, but it's a dangerous zone to be in....
I had to get up this morning to drive my daughter to ringette, what a treat to not been hungover and grumpy!!!!! I'm sore....but that's from dancing so much!
My husband didn't drink either which was surprised me AND he asked me to dance, which also surprised me. :-)
you know,,,,who the hell isnt co dependent to some degree if they are in any kind of relationship?
I mean really i guess there are varying degrees, our parnters all do something we dont like and want them to change.
i think you dont want him to use now because you arent using and it sure would help you. but i guess so did all the other stuff, but he is not lying about this stuff. he is not hiding it and you arent beating him up over it.
i dont know, i think maybe you are beating yourself up a little.
and co dependency gets a little over used. it isnt all bad.
as far as the partying stuff, you are amazing that you can do that stuff. i think the pink cloud is a little more euphoric and preachy. and i dont know about the foaming at the mouth thing, we are dope smokers and i just think it could be different for us. i think i have mentioned to the dis taste of some hard core addicts i have a drink from time to time, it just isnt my think, i dont get drunk however, i know if i ever did my judgment might not be there to stop myself, i just dont like alcohol enough to have more than a glass of wine, here and there.
back to the religion thing, i mean even more than just organized religion, if your higher power is a rubber tree plant, i just have difficulty thinking that HP can miraculously help me without a lot of work on my part. now the magpie on the other hand, i think we could start our own religion just on that.
ANY ONE TRICK OR TREATING TOMORROW. HAVE LITTLE ONES?
I HAVE A DARTH VADER AND A VAMPIRES
I mean really i guess there are varying degrees, our parnters all do something we dont like and want them to change.
i think you dont want him to use now because you arent using and it sure would help you. but i guess so did all the other stuff, but he is not lying about this stuff. he is not hiding it and you arent beating him up over it.
i dont know, i think maybe you are beating yourself up a little.
and co dependency gets a little over used. it isnt all bad.
as far as the partying stuff, you are amazing that you can do that stuff. i think the pink cloud is a little more euphoric and preachy. and i dont know about the foaming at the mouth thing, we are dope smokers and i just think it could be different for us. i think i have mentioned to the dis taste of some hard core addicts i have a drink from time to time, it just isnt my think, i dont get drunk however, i know if i ever did my judgment might not be there to stop myself, i just dont like alcohol enough to have more than a glass of wine, here and there.
back to the religion thing, i mean even more than just organized religion, if your higher power is a rubber tree plant, i just have difficulty thinking that HP can miraculously help me without a lot of work on my part. now the magpie on the other hand, i think we could start our own religion just on that.
ANY ONE TRICK OR TREATING TOMORROW. HAVE LITTLE ONES?
I HAVE A DARTH VADER AND A VAMPIRES
Yeah, I'm thinking it could be considered a cop out if that's all a person is looking to.....their HP. I agree. Then they don't have to really look at how they can make a difference.....they can just leave it up to the rubber tree plant.... LOL
Last night we were driving to the party and I noticed someone had a crystal hanging on their rearview mirror. I mentioned to my husband that alot of people have crystals or dolphins or crosses....I see them on everyone's mirrors....we're all connected...thinking, admiring, believing in different things....but we share the love of certain "same" things. It was cool, it made me feel that world is not such a bad place after all. :-)
Halloween. YES!!!!, I have a little boy dressing as "Inyuasha" it's a cartoon character. I'm cheating though....my daughter is making the costume (she's the seamstress...loves to sew....so have at it, I say. LOL)
Gotta go carve the pumpkin now, btw, looks like my time zone is two hours back from this board.
Oh and regarding the marshmellow thing.....I pictured the marshmellow guy from ghostbusters.......you go girl!!!
Last night we were driving to the party and I noticed someone had a crystal hanging on their rearview mirror. I mentioned to my husband that alot of people have crystals or dolphins or crosses....I see them on everyone's mirrors....we're all connected...thinking, admiring, believing in different things....but we share the love of certain "same" things. It was cool, it made me feel that world is not such a bad place after all. :-)
Halloween. YES!!!!, I have a little boy dressing as "Inyuasha" it's a cartoon character. I'm cheating though....my daughter is making the costume (she's the seamstress...loves to sew....so have at it, I say. LOL)
Gotta go carve the pumpkin now, btw, looks like my time zone is two hours back from this board.
Oh and regarding the marshmellow thing.....I pictured the marshmellow guy from ghostbusters.......you go girl!!!
WW-
Your first post sounded like you were starting to chase your tail a little bit. I always tought that co-dependency was a need/desire to have someone be at your mercy, so to speak, because they couldn't function on their own.
The classic example is partner of user with suspended drivers license, which requires that the user keep the co-dependent around for transportation purposes. Then the co-dependent fosters negative (using or other) behaviors in order to provide some security for themselves that they will not be abandonded and alone. This is a far cry from using positive reinforcement to encourge someone to quit.
I think your meeting him at the door falls into the second category. And after all if you don't reward him for not using, and don't give him alternative activities, how can you ask him to stay clean? If this is manipulative, (and maybe it is) so be it. At least you are manipulating the situation to increase the chances of sucess. Remember what I said earlier about choices? Being passive is also a choice (the do-nothing option) and will have its own consequenses. So make your choices based on enlightened self interest, and leave the rest up to the rubber tree plant, lol.
Your first post sounded like you were starting to chase your tail a little bit. I always tought that co-dependency was a need/desire to have someone be at your mercy, so to speak, because they couldn't function on their own.
The classic example is partner of user with suspended drivers license, which requires that the user keep the co-dependent around for transportation purposes. Then the co-dependent fosters negative (using or other) behaviors in order to provide some security for themselves that they will not be abandonded and alone. This is a far cry from using positive reinforcement to encourge someone to quit.
I think your meeting him at the door falls into the second category. And after all if you don't reward him for not using, and don't give him alternative activities, how can you ask him to stay clean? If this is manipulative, (and maybe it is) so be it. At least you are manipulating the situation to increase the chances of sucess. Remember what I said earlier about choices? Being passive is also a choice (the do-nothing option) and will have its own consequenses. So make your choices based on enlightened self interest, and leave the rest up to the rubber tree plant, lol.
jamv-
More selfish than ever? How does it get more selfish than getting stoned and removing yourself from the world and those around you who want to care about you? I think the key may be getting less selfish. No, I take that back, the key is becoming more enlightened about who we are and the effect we have on the world/universe and the consequences of our action/inaction.
On a separate note, I think I realized the other day that you don't need serenity to achieve acceptance, but that serenity is a consequence of acceptance. Forgiveness is the key that unlocks the door.
More selfish than ever? How does it get more selfish than getting stoned and removing yourself from the world and those around you who want to care about you? I think the key may be getting less selfish. No, I take that back, the key is becoming more enlightened about who we are and the effect we have on the world/universe and the consequences of our action/inaction.
On a separate note, I think I realized the other day that you don't need serenity to achieve acceptance, but that serenity is a consequence of acceptance. Forgiveness is the key that unlocks the door.
ok, so selflessness is a better word
but... not to the point of losing yourself for the sake of acceptance.
yes addiction is selfish. no doubt about it.
my point is not settling, you and we all deserve the best and nothing less, we also deserve to give are best and no longer wallow in our self pity, intolerance, and needs that will never be met by another human.
now you are proclaiming to not be an addict, what issue are you working on?
but... not to the point of losing yourself for the sake of acceptance.
yes addiction is selfish. no doubt about it.
my point is not settling, you and we all deserve the best and nothing less, we also deserve to give are best and no longer wallow in our self pity, intolerance, and needs that will never be met by another human.
now you are proclaiming to not be an addict, what issue are you working on?
jamv-
Not completely sure I understand the question, but my victory song on another thread may be the answer, if not could you provide a little more detail as to what information you seek?
Not completely sure I understand the question, but my victory song on another thread may be the answer, if not could you provide a little more detail as to what information you seek?
i forgot what your victory song was and what thread it was on. please remind me.
on a few threads over you stated that you have decided you were not an addict, but you are posting on an addiction board.
just wondering are you just here trying to help us addicts, just in denial, help yourself by helping others, need something to do. i dont know, just curious, i dont mind if you say it is none of my business.
just wondering why a non addict would be posting on an addiction board. maybe i read too much into one statement, i will try to find that song.
on a few threads over you stated that you have decided you were not an addict, but you are posting on an addiction board.
just wondering are you just here trying to help us addicts, just in denial, help yourself by helping others, need something to do. i dont know, just curious, i dont mind if you say it is none of my business.
just wondering why a non addict would be posting on an addiction board. maybe i read too much into one statement, i will try to find that song.
jamv-
Ok, a short review, I have a hard time keeping everyone straight sometimes also. Sometimes I wonder why I keep posting here myself.
I posted on this board the first time because I thought I had found a girlfriend. She is a dedicated 12 stepper, and when I told her that I was a smoker of many years, she flipped out-told me I was an addict, and that she could never be with an addict. I disagreed with that assement but in the spirit of honest inquiry I agreed to do some research. My original posting was an attempt to raise the question in an unbiased forum and see what responses I got.
If you go back there "heart racing" you will find some of August Wests last posts and the fact that he left after (and maybe on account of) what I did made me feel slightly guilty which is why I posted the next several times.
Then jojo started asking me about the "sacred time" concept. Now understand that I am an enabler as well, or even more than, a user. Guess I just couldn't resist the chance to "enable" someone to quit. I also consider myself a scientist and the chance to gain data on my hypothesis was a powerful draw.
So now jojo is enjoying a degree of sucess and clearly on her way to getting totally clean, which I feel validates my theory. (Oh and you are not the one no longer listening the aforementioned girl is.) No, I have plenty to do thanks very much. So I guess the bottom line is that my actions had consequenses and as long as you guys feel I'm being a positive contributor I am willing to keep up here. But August if you are listening you can have this job back anytime you want (lol)!
One last point, this would seem to be a lousy place to look for a girlfriend as most here allready are in a relationship. That (perhaps futile?) search continues, but in more fertile grounds.
whatever works is good.
the only way to quit is to quit.
Ok, a short review, I have a hard time keeping everyone straight sometimes also. Sometimes I wonder why I keep posting here myself.
I posted on this board the first time because I thought I had found a girlfriend. She is a dedicated 12 stepper, and when I told her that I was a smoker of many years, she flipped out-told me I was an addict, and that she could never be with an addict. I disagreed with that assement but in the spirit of honest inquiry I agreed to do some research. My original posting was an attempt to raise the question in an unbiased forum and see what responses I got.
If you go back there "heart racing" you will find some of August Wests last posts and the fact that he left after (and maybe on account of) what I did made me feel slightly guilty which is why I posted the next several times.
Then jojo started asking me about the "sacred time" concept. Now understand that I am an enabler as well, or even more than, a user. Guess I just couldn't resist the chance to "enable" someone to quit. I also consider myself a scientist and the chance to gain data on my hypothesis was a powerful draw.
So now jojo is enjoying a degree of sucess and clearly on her way to getting totally clean, which I feel validates my theory. (Oh and you are not the one no longer listening the aforementioned girl is.) No, I have plenty to do thanks very much. So I guess the bottom line is that my actions had consequenses and as long as you guys feel I'm being a positive contributor I am willing to keep up here. But August if you are listening you can have this job back anytime you want (lol)!
One last point, this would seem to be a lousy place to look for a girlfriend as most here allready are in a relationship. That (perhaps futile?) search continues, but in more fertile grounds.
whatever works is good.
the only way to quit is to quit.
hippie- funny you should mention august west i was just thinking of him. never a fan of his and i'm sure he'd be cutting me down today for sure.
yes he has a wealth of words of wisdom and many many clean years, but isa lso very closed minded. it took me a long time to jump into posting on this site one reason because i knew he would cut down my not wanting to go the 12 step route.
don't feel bad he is gone, don't feel responsible. he is a grown guy and it was his decision i'm sure....his talk about how this board was disappointing him was out of place. he doesn't own it, he was/is not the father of clean time. he wanted to be i think. a big fish in this lil' pond. if you go back way back you will read how he and some of his friends or maybe it was august in disguise got rather snooty to some of the then regulars at the time and they left the board. i loved reading their posts but he drilled it to them, if they didn't do it his way they were destined to fail. did that help them? we will never know because they no longer post here.
other's started to cut down the mom's who were still using. ( i think it was toward the end of winter 2005 if you want to read..... )
anyway.... i was thinking that your approach has helped me more than any 12 step program and that august would probably be fuming and sure i am destined to fail. who needs support like that? and who needs to go a 12 step route if it's not for you? it's not for me at all.
a smart guy he is, and good with words but in my opinion not too good with people and understanding that we are all different. we can't all do the march in 12 step time.
my opinion. and to those of you who do the 12 steps i respect you, it's just not for me. i've seen it save many a person..... what i read on the other boards is amazing. this athiest can't go there though. :)
i understand where you are coming from...... i have lots of friends who were stoners and let go much more easily than me. nothing wrong with that. i think august would find something wrong with that.
i personally appreciate you and your posts. actually you may have changed my life so there you go!
-jo
yes he has a wealth of words of wisdom and many many clean years, but isa lso very closed minded. it took me a long time to jump into posting on this site one reason because i knew he would cut down my not wanting to go the 12 step route.
don't feel bad he is gone, don't feel responsible. he is a grown guy and it was his decision i'm sure....his talk about how this board was disappointing him was out of place. he doesn't own it, he was/is not the father of clean time. he wanted to be i think. a big fish in this lil' pond. if you go back way back you will read how he and some of his friends or maybe it was august in disguise got rather snooty to some of the then regulars at the time and they left the board. i loved reading their posts but he drilled it to them, if they didn't do it his way they were destined to fail. did that help them? we will never know because they no longer post here.
other's started to cut down the mom's who were still using. ( i think it was toward the end of winter 2005 if you want to read..... )
anyway.... i was thinking that your approach has helped me more than any 12 step program and that august would probably be fuming and sure i am destined to fail. who needs support like that? and who needs to go a 12 step route if it's not for you? it's not for me at all.
a smart guy he is, and good with words but in my opinion not too good with people and understanding that we are all different. we can't all do the march in 12 step time.
my opinion. and to those of you who do the 12 steps i respect you, it's just not for me. i've seen it save many a person..... what i read on the other boards is amazing. this athiest can't go there though. :)
i understand where you are coming from...... i have lots of friends who were stoners and let go much more easily than me. nothing wrong with that. i think august would find something wrong with that.
i personally appreciate you and your posts. actually you may have changed my life so there you go!
-jo
in re-reading what i wrote i really went off on august west a bit too much. my aplogies to him if he reads this but honestly i think i was itching to say it and meant what i said just maybe not so tough.
so guys i made it thru today. funny the hour of 'sacred time' is tough to let go of. i can't believe i've brought it ALL down to this and it's still a major hurdle. it's harder than going to an hour of 'scared time' because that was something. not nada, nothing! like i said i dumped it so the cupboard is bare. it will stay that way. i keep thinking toward the future ....
-jo
and ww. how do you survive with a garage of roaches?
so guys i made it thru today. funny the hour of 'sacred time' is tough to let go of. i can't believe i've brought it ALL down to this and it's still a major hurdle. it's harder than going to an hour of 'scared time' because that was something. not nada, nothing! like i said i dumped it so the cupboard is bare. it will stay that way. i keep thinking toward the future ....
-jo
and ww. how do you survive with a garage of roaches?
jojo-
good for you. I thought I posted this yesterday, but now it's gone-
After I stopped using on a daily basis, I ended up smoking again, here and there, maybe a week would go by, maybe two, I didn't have any of my own but kept some of my "using" friends. Each time I did, I asked myself why am I doing this, I don't really want to be stoned, even. The final time was with a friend and she had to beg me to smoke with her "on her birthday." It's probably the only reason I know the date of the last time I smoked.
If quitting is this hard when we have limited our use for so long, how difficult it must be for those who go from "majorly stoned" to "not smoking at all any more" without the transition time which allows other activities and thought processes to take the place of being stoned.
Today's paper had a story of a dad who shot his son, wrote a rambling email about how he planned this and why he shot his son because he didn't want him to grow up without a dad, then shot himself. He was going thru a divorce. Days like today my singleness looks pretty darn good! People are absolutely nuts!
Have a great day all, I think I'm going to take the weekend off from the board.
good for you. I thought I posted this yesterday, but now it's gone-
After I stopped using on a daily basis, I ended up smoking again, here and there, maybe a week would go by, maybe two, I didn't have any of my own but kept some of my "using" friends. Each time I did, I asked myself why am I doing this, I don't really want to be stoned, even. The final time was with a friend and she had to beg me to smoke with her "on her birthday." It's probably the only reason I know the date of the last time I smoked.
If quitting is this hard when we have limited our use for so long, how difficult it must be for those who go from "majorly stoned" to "not smoking at all any more" without the transition time which allows other activities and thought processes to take the place of being stoned.
Today's paper had a story of a dad who shot his son, wrote a rambling email about how he planned this and why he shot his son because he didn't want him to grow up without a dad, then shot himself. He was going thru a divorce. Days like today my singleness looks pretty darn good! People are absolutely nuts!
Have a great day all, I think I'm going to take the weekend off from the board.
hippienerd, you have a good weekend .... don't stay away too long - jo
Im probably a little older than some on this board but I can tell you,that it was alcohol,not pot, that led me thru the laundry list of drugs that I tried thu the years. Alcohol always gave me the balls to take it to the next step. - not weed.
Not that weed is any better- just my experiance
love & respect
jack - recovering heroin addict
Not that weed is any better- just my experiance
love & respect
jack - recovering heroin addict
