HI I AM NEW TO THE BOARD. I HAVE POSTED ON THE HEROIN SITE. I GOT SOME REALLY GOOD RESPONSES BUT IT SEEMS NO ONE IS OR HAS BEEN ON SUBOXONE ONLY ON SUBUTEXT. A LITTLE HISTORY ON MYSELF:: STARTED ON H ABOUT 12YRS AGO. THEN AFTER NUMEROUS TREATMENT AND C/T WENT ON METHADONE. FINALLY GOT SICK OF THAT STOPPED THE METH. THEN PICKED UP H AGIAN. WORST MISTAKE!! NO IT SEEMS I CAN'T GET UP ENOUGH NERVE TO QUIT(NO DOUBT MY DISEASE TALKING TO ME) ANYWAY I BOUGHT SUBOXONE OFF THE STREET. NEED SOME ADVICE ON HOW TO TAKE IT. READ ALOT AND PEOPLE ON HEROIN SITE HELPED ME BUT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TALK TO SOMEONE THAT IS ON THIS SAME MED. OR KNOWS SOMEONE THAT IS ON IT KINDA LIKE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. I HAVE READ ALOT ABOUT IT BUT CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT IS ON IT OR HAS TAKEN IT. PLEASE IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS ANY KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THIS. PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I NEED TO KNOW HOW BAD THE W/DS ARE HOW LONG IT WILL LAST, AND HOW MUCH I TAKE AND WHEN DO I START?? I HAVE GOT 8MG PILLS PLEASE AGAIN LET ME KNOW ANYTHING YOU MIGHT KNOW. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I HAVE GOT TO GET OUT OF THIS H**L I AM LIVING IN. THE REASON I NEED TO KNOW IS I WORK AND HAVE A SON TO LOOK AFTER SO I NEED SOME KINDA OF TIMELINE AND WHAT TO LOOK FORWARD TO AND ALSO I AM SCARED TO DEATH!!
G
when was the last time that you used an opiate of any kind
Well it is not to cool to take this without a doctor supervising cause you could have a reaction to it, but hell I know you are desperate. I watch my husband do ct and it wasn't pretty..........He is now on suboxone.......
Ok first suboxone has naltexone in it so don't try to bang it, if that was you thing, because you will just be wasting it.......
You must be in withdrawal before you take the sub or it will throw you into it full blown.......Everyone was in wd for different times before they started but it should be atleast 18-24 hours from the last times you used......I would go 24, you should be able to hang that long.....Then you take 2mgs every 2 hours until you feel ok......Now the tricky part if you take to much you will feel like sh*it again.......Hence the doctor thing......
It is really hard to tell you what good will be for you and what dose would accomplish that......Then once you get your stable dose what are you plans for tapering.....If you only want to use it to get past the worst of it I would stay stable for a few days then start dropping by 1mg at a time, based how fast on how much you have......
I hope that some of this has helped you some. I have a link to another forum just like this one that is all about suboxone and subutex.......I would check it out if I were you......
Good Luck to you and I hope that this works out and helps you to get a start on a clean life.....
Tina
http://www.heroin-detox.com/forum.a....asp?FORUM_ID=4
Ok first suboxone has naltexone in it so don't try to bang it, if that was you thing, because you will just be wasting it.......
You must be in withdrawal before you take the sub or it will throw you into it full blown.......Everyone was in wd for different times before they started but it should be atleast 18-24 hours from the last times you used......I would go 24, you should be able to hang that long.....Then you take 2mgs every 2 hours until you feel ok......Now the tricky part if you take to much you will feel like sh*it again.......Hence the doctor thing......
It is really hard to tell you what good will be for you and what dose would accomplish that......Then once you get your stable dose what are you plans for tapering.....If you only want to use it to get past the worst of it I would stay stable for a few days then start dropping by 1mg at a time, based how fast on how much you have......
I hope that some of this has helped you some. I have a link to another forum just like this one that is all about suboxone and subutex.......I would check it out if I were you......
Good Luck to you and I hope that this works out and helps you to get a start on a clean life.....
Tina
http://www.heroin-detox.com/forum.a....asp?FORUM_ID=4
SCS,
I USED AT 5PM TODAY.I AM IN USA EASTERN STANDERED TIME.
TINA,
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFO. I HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE TAPRING OFF HONESTLY ALL I HAVE THOUGHT AND STRESSED ABOUT IS THE W/DS. YOU HAVE EASED MY MIND. HOW LONG DID YOUR HUSBAND WAIT TILL HE TOOK HIS SUBOXONE/? ALSO WAS HIS W/DS REALLY BAD?? THANKS AGAIN YOU GUYS FOR ANSWERING ME. I PLAN TO START TOMORROW . NOT SURE YET ABOUT WHAT TIME. I AM WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY ABOUT WHEN YOUR HUSBAND STARTED HIS SUBOXONE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
G
I USED AT 5PM TODAY.I AM IN USA EASTERN STANDERED TIME.
TINA,
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFO. I HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE TAPRING OFF HONESTLY ALL I HAVE THOUGHT AND STRESSED ABOUT IS THE W/DS. YOU HAVE EASED MY MIND. HOW LONG DID YOUR HUSBAND WAIT TILL HE TOOK HIS SUBOXONE/? ALSO WAS HIS W/DS REALLY BAD?? THANKS AGAIN YOU GUYS FOR ANSWERING ME. I PLAN TO START TOMORROW . NOT SURE YET ABOUT WHAT TIME. I AM WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY ABOUT WHEN YOUR HUSBAND STARTED HIS SUBOXONE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
G
I just saw your response......I won't leave you hanging I promise. I will be back in about an hour to try to help you. I hope that John and some others on sub see this as well.
Blues,
I was om sub for 10 weeks, been off now for 2. I tapered really slow, about every 10 days. I went from 8mg to 6mg to 4mg. Once I hit 4mg, I tapered to 3 to 2 to 1 and even 1/2 to 1/4 to nothing.
I never felt the drops. I was tired and moody when I got off the sub, but I also found out I was pregnant the day I stopped, so these are expected pregnancy symptoms.
For me, sub was a great tool in getting clean. I also have outside support which has been key for me.
Good luck
Redd
Gottheblues,
First off, I have never done H , But I have been on sub for a pain pill habit. I have tried to read as much as possible on Sub . I would have done a couple things different if I ever (God forbid) need to go through it again.
* The fact that your DOC is H , should not matter with respect to starting Sub , other than you might need a higher starting dose. BUT you being on METH , does matter because of the long half life. As they say on the other board, METH changes the Tapper schedule. So it depends how long you have been off Meth.
* how long you stay on SUB should also be a trade off between not getting too adicted to SUB and needing to be on it lond enough to work on some couping skills so you wont relapse when you get off all narcotics.
*I will gladly help with some more info in another post . First read some of these posts .
__________________________________________________
http://www.heroin-detox.com/forum.a....asp?FORUM_ID=4
* While this is a good site for encouragement and commaderi , there are other site which have much more details about sub. Here is a link and a quote from one person named SAL. I am not saying I agree with the post or not . I just wanted you to see what kind of info is posted there.
Here is a post from SAL.
___________________________________________
Hey y'all! Long time no see.
I just wanted to stop in and say that my detox off Subutex is finally over, my cravings are totally controllable, and I think I figured out how to detox sucessfully with minimal pain fronm the Sub.
first off, Sub is WAY stronger than I originally gave it credit back when I first visited here. It is VERY addictive, and hard to come off. If you can deal with 3 days of hell instead of using it, I highly suggest it. Otherwise, here is what I think.
Long term usage (greater than one month) is going to cause dependance on a scale you are not going to expect, especially with these crazy 16mg a day and up, doses doc's are pushing. I think to come off any full agonist, and to PREVENT RELAPSE ONLY, a high dose like 16mg should be used, but you are in for a fight later. I thin 8mg is a very effective starting dose if you are truely in w/d's.
I did the following after having to go on meds for a root canal, and having to stop my Sub maintenance. I went on Sub. on 5/20/04, and fought like hell to get off in 7/04 and 8/04, but headaches and tiredness got to me. Then, I had to stop the Sub for 2 days due to dental stuff two weeks ago(AGAIN, the second time on Subutex I had to dea with this). After the pain was OK, I did this detox and feel fine now, with the exception of headaches which Tylenol is taking care of, and insomnia, which is a pain in the a**, but better that worrying about getting sick. This taper is only for those who are not concerned with relapse. Being dependant on Sub is better than being dependant on a full agonist IMHO!
Day 1: 8mg divided into 2 doses 12 hours apart
Day 2: 6mg divided into 2 doses 12 hrs apart (take 1st dose ASAP in theAM to prevent feeling ill or any w/d's)
Day 3: 4mg divided into 2 doses 12 hours apart, first one in AM ASAP
Day 4: 3mg divided as above
Day 5: 3mg divided as above
Day 6: 2mg divided as above
Day 7: 1mg All in one dose as soon as you gert up until the final dose below.
Day 8: .75mg (approximate from here on out..just keep breaking 1mg)
Day 9: .5mg
Day 10: .25mg
Day 11: 1/2 of the above dose
Day 12: nothing
You will not go through this process without any side effects. You'll be tired, maybe have headaches and your stomach will have some issues, but you will be able to work (I did anyway).
Good luck people and thanks for helping me when I needed!
Peace
____________________________
First off, I have never done H , But I have been on sub for a pain pill habit. I have tried to read as much as possible on Sub . I would have done a couple things different if I ever (God forbid) need to go through it again.
* The fact that your DOC is H , should not matter with respect to starting Sub , other than you might need a higher starting dose. BUT you being on METH , does matter because of the long half life. As they say on the other board, METH changes the Tapper schedule. So it depends how long you have been off Meth.
* how long you stay on SUB should also be a trade off between not getting too adicted to SUB and needing to be on it lond enough to work on some couping skills so you wont relapse when you get off all narcotics.
*I will gladly help with some more info in another post . First read some of these posts .
__________________________________________________
http://www.heroin-detox.com/forum.a....asp?FORUM_ID=4
* While this is a good site for encouragement and commaderi , there are other site which have much more details about sub. Here is a link and a quote from one person named SAL. I am not saying I agree with the post or not . I just wanted you to see what kind of info is posted there.
Here is a post from SAL.
___________________________________________
Hey y'all! Long time no see.
I just wanted to stop in and say that my detox off Subutex is finally over, my cravings are totally controllable, and I think I figured out how to detox sucessfully with minimal pain fronm the Sub.
first off, Sub is WAY stronger than I originally gave it credit back when I first visited here. It is VERY addictive, and hard to come off. If you can deal with 3 days of hell instead of using it, I highly suggest it. Otherwise, here is what I think.
Long term usage (greater than one month) is going to cause dependance on a scale you are not going to expect, especially with these crazy 16mg a day and up, doses doc's are pushing. I think to come off any full agonist, and to PREVENT RELAPSE ONLY, a high dose like 16mg should be used, but you are in for a fight later. I thin 8mg is a very effective starting dose if you are truely in w/d's.
I did the following after having to go on meds for a root canal, and having to stop my Sub maintenance. I went on Sub. on 5/20/04, and fought like hell to get off in 7/04 and 8/04, but headaches and tiredness got to me. Then, I had to stop the Sub for 2 days due to dental stuff two weeks ago(AGAIN, the second time on Subutex I had to dea with this). After the pain was OK, I did this detox and feel fine now, with the exception of headaches which Tylenol is taking care of, and insomnia, which is a pain in the a**, but better that worrying about getting sick. This taper is only for those who are not concerned with relapse. Being dependant on Sub is better than being dependant on a full agonist IMHO!
Day 1: 8mg divided into 2 doses 12 hours apart
Day 2: 6mg divided into 2 doses 12 hrs apart (take 1st dose ASAP in theAM to prevent feeling ill or any w/d's)
Day 3: 4mg divided into 2 doses 12 hours apart, first one in AM ASAP
Day 4: 3mg divided as above
Day 5: 3mg divided as above
Day 6: 2mg divided as above
Day 7: 1mg All in one dose as soon as you gert up until the final dose below.
Day 8: .75mg (approximate from here on out..just keep breaking 1mg)
Day 9: .5mg
Day 10: .25mg
Day 11: 1/2 of the above dose
Day 12: nothing
You will not go through this process without any side effects. You'll be tired, maybe have headaches and your stomach will have some issues, but you will be able to work (I did anyway).
Good luck people and thanks for helping me when I needed!
Peace
____________________________
I have no idea where to start and I don't want to scare you at all about wd, because everyones are different. Mine went through them 2 times before the sub, kinda a glutton for punishment. The first time from 20+ percs and bags of herion, the second time 3 weeks clean he started just herion used about 5 days and did ct again he was 6 days clean before he took sub. He has been on it for 4 months. I will tell you this wd was worse the second time.......and he used much less and only for a few days........
You need to see some markers of withdrawl before you start and I wouldn't take anything until atleast tonight at 5........you may have to wait longer if you still don't feel sick. Sneezing, runny nose, stomache cramping, sweating, rapid heartbeat.......these are some of the signs that withdrawal is starting. I take it that you haven't been through wd before???? It is so important to be in wd thats why I said that a doctor supervising is important. If you don't wait long enough you will get it all at once and I have read that it isn't fun........
Another thing is how you feel on the sub....I have read with herion you may not feel perfect the first few days. The idea of feeling good is being able to function with little discomfort not feeling like you never used at all.......So you must hang tight and only take 2mgs every 2 hours until you feel ok.....If you take to much you will not feel good at all. Once you feel ok then you will have a dose to be stable at........I would start dropping after a few days so you can get off the sub before you run out. You need to get a pill cutter so you can cut then 8mgs in quarters.........
You know getting clean is the easy part of all this........Herion wd doesn't last forever, it is the call that the herion has that will be the hardest. I see that with my husband each and everyday. Even on the sub it still calls him and he even got to the point where he wanted to use on top. Which would have got him death before the high ........This was something he played with at 16 and was brought right back into it when the percs were no longer getting him where his head thought he should be........It will be a fight everyday to stay clean and please for your best chance at a real good life get some outside help. It could be anything AA/NA, addiction counseling, group counseling......but something with people who understand what you will be going through and that need to chase the high or numb the bullsh*t of life away.........and keep posting.........
I will put in another link that has some good resourses about addiction, you may get something that will help you so please check it out.
You know I am wondering how long have you been fighting this and are you doing it alone.....Is there anyone who will be with you when you start the sub. I see you have a child and I hate to know that you might be in this yourself.....
I hope more jump in here with thier experiences.........
Love,
Tina
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/dru...s_treatment.htm
You need to see some markers of withdrawl before you start and I wouldn't take anything until atleast tonight at 5........you may have to wait longer if you still don't feel sick. Sneezing, runny nose, stomache cramping, sweating, rapid heartbeat.......these are some of the signs that withdrawal is starting. I take it that you haven't been through wd before???? It is so important to be in wd thats why I said that a doctor supervising is important. If you don't wait long enough you will get it all at once and I have read that it isn't fun........
Another thing is how you feel on the sub....I have read with herion you may not feel perfect the first few days. The idea of feeling good is being able to function with little discomfort not feeling like you never used at all.......So you must hang tight and only take 2mgs every 2 hours until you feel ok.....If you take to much you will not feel good at all. Once you feel ok then you will have a dose to be stable at........I would start dropping after a few days so you can get off the sub before you run out. You need to get a pill cutter so you can cut then 8mgs in quarters.........
You know getting clean is the easy part of all this........Herion wd doesn't last forever, it is the call that the herion has that will be the hardest. I see that with my husband each and everyday. Even on the sub it still calls him and he even got to the point where he wanted to use on top. Which would have got him death before the high ........This was something he played with at 16 and was brought right back into it when the percs were no longer getting him where his head thought he should be........It will be a fight everyday to stay clean and please for your best chance at a real good life get some outside help. It could be anything AA/NA, addiction counseling, group counseling......but something with people who understand what you will be going through and that need to chase the high or numb the bullsh*t of life away.........and keep posting.........
I will put in another link that has some good resourses about addiction, you may get something that will help you so please check it out.
You know I am wondering how long have you been fighting this and are you doing it alone.....Is there anyone who will be with you when you start the sub. I see you have a child and I hate to know that you might be in this yourself.....
I hope more jump in here with thier experiences.........
Love,
Tina
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/dru...s_treatment.htm
Gottheblues,
Seeing a Doctor would be recommended .Here is some info that will help educate yourself so you can ask a Doctor better questions.
*** This is NOT a tapper schedule that would work for people who use METH . If you have used METH in the last couple of months . You may have to stay on your start up Dose for a much longer period.
But if you just used H or pain pills , this is a reasonable schedule that I would use. (( Some Doctor have a Quick 7 to 10 day schedule)) Others have a much longer 6 month schedule. For me , this would be what I would use.
* Some Doctors recommend waiting 24 hours after Narcotic use to the first Sub dose. Some people have waited 12 hours. I myself, waited approx 19 hours. The point is .....You must be in withdraw before you take the Sub. If not , it will kick you into withdraw.
* I would start with 4 mill . ( If you didnt allow 20 hour , You may feel worst at first but this should degrade in a couple hours )
* My second does I would take another 4 mill 3 hours later.
* My Third does I would take another 4 mill 3 hours later.
* Keep going until you feel no w/d . Depending on the history of your H abuse , I would think staying arround 16 mill for 4 days would be about right.
* Then Scale down to 4 mill by taking cutting 4 mill every 4 days .
_______________________________________
Those cuts wont be that hard: But cutting down from 4 to zero might take longer and more minor cuts. Sub has a long half life ( about 36 hours) so you will still feel Sub that was in your body for approx 4 days.
* Once you are on 4 mill , you can continue to cut every 4 days . 3 mil, 2 mil, 1 mill, .5 mil
_______________________________________
I would definately recommend seeing a Doctor for all of this , but it sounds like your mind is made up . Research out other peoples opinion also . This is only the way I would do it for me .
******* PLEASE KEEP IN MIND : That if you use H after you start Sub , you wont feel High at all. The problem is people think they got a bad batch and shoot even more ( some to the point of death) . While the problem all along is that the Sub wont allow you to feel high no matter how much you take . Once started on Sub it would take about 4 days off before you would feel high if you used again.______ Also , dont take Benzos during your Sub use. It can cause real problem . However ; my doctor did say that 5 mg of Diazapam was OK. I still have not taken it and I am not sure if those instructions were wise.
Here are a few more sites you can check out.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/b...5.chapter.72248
This one contains the information that Doctors use during their 8 hour course to be able to prescribe Sub
http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/
Good luck,
Jake
__________________
Seeing a Doctor would be recommended .Here is some info that will help educate yourself so you can ask a Doctor better questions.
*** This is NOT a tapper schedule that would work for people who use METH . If you have used METH in the last couple of months . You may have to stay on your start up Dose for a much longer period.
But if you just used H or pain pills , this is a reasonable schedule that I would use. (( Some Doctor have a Quick 7 to 10 day schedule)) Others have a much longer 6 month schedule. For me , this would be what I would use.
* Some Doctors recommend waiting 24 hours after Narcotic use to the first Sub dose. Some people have waited 12 hours. I myself, waited approx 19 hours. The point is .....You must be in withdraw before you take the Sub. If not , it will kick you into withdraw.
* I would start with 4 mill . ( If you didnt allow 20 hour , You may feel worst at first but this should degrade in a couple hours )
* My second does I would take another 4 mill 3 hours later.
* My Third does I would take another 4 mill 3 hours later.
* Keep going until you feel no w/d . Depending on the history of your H abuse , I would think staying arround 16 mill for 4 days would be about right.
* Then Scale down to 4 mill by taking cutting 4 mill every 4 days .
_______________________________________
Those cuts wont be that hard: But cutting down from 4 to zero might take longer and more minor cuts. Sub has a long half life ( about 36 hours) so you will still feel Sub that was in your body for approx 4 days.
* Once you are on 4 mill , you can continue to cut every 4 days . 3 mil, 2 mil, 1 mill, .5 mil
_______________________________________
I would definately recommend seeing a Doctor for all of this , but it sounds like your mind is made up . Research out other peoples opinion also . This is only the way I would do it for me .
******* PLEASE KEEP IN MIND : That if you use H after you start Sub , you wont feel High at all. The problem is people think they got a bad batch and shoot even more ( some to the point of death) . While the problem all along is that the Sub wont allow you to feel high no matter how much you take . Once started on Sub it would take about 4 days off before you would feel high if you used again.______ Also , dont take Benzos during your Sub use. It can cause real problem . However ; my doctor did say that 5 mg of Diazapam was OK. I still have not taken it and I am not sure if those instructions were wise.
Here are a few more sites you can check out.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/b...5.chapter.72248
This one contains the information that Doctors use during their 8 hour course to be able to prescribe Sub
http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/
Good luck,
Jake
__________________
