Bob, i don't know if you have been keeping up with my slipped again post, but i have taken steps to recover. I have told my husband, been to my physician for gabritil to deal with cravings and am going to an intensive outpatient clinic starting monday. please pen me some wisdom to help me along the path that i am walking!
Will b praying for u. But u r well on your way already. I am so proud of u. I know it won't b easy but it will be well worth it when the clouds clear and u r back to being clean again.
Hang in there and we will be thinking of you.
Love ya
Tina
Hang in there and we will be thinking of you.
Love ya
Tina
thanks tina, i have been letting my husband read some of the support from the posts and he is very glad that there are people here for me 24/7
i really need all this positive input. it helps to strengthen me on my journey to getting well.
i really need all this positive input. it helps to strengthen me on my journey to getting well.
hey, janet. i've been pre-occupied today.
first, thank you for honoring me by asking me for help by name. that's a high compliment to me, and i don't take it lightly.
i would just want you to know that you relapsed by doing something that you really didn't want to do in your heart of hearts. i know that for a fact because of your posts in recent weeks. there's a scripture passage from St. Paul about the same thing; he had the same issue 2,000 years ago. so have most of us. i know i have. i'll find it for you later.
but, you relapsed. you used. it's not ok, but it is over with. it's done. "fini," as we say in french south louisiana. now it's behind you. there's a lot of frustration left -- and dissapointment. probably rage at yourself. and a heap of guilt and shame. those come with the territory. let them go as soon as you can. forgive yourself. sit down and write it out that you forgive yourself, and then live out that decision to forgive. it starts with a decision.
the reality is that you have a disease. an alergy. an ailment. unlike other diseases, the disease causes one afflicted to do some things and engage in some activities and experience a way of thinking that the person wouldn't otherwise do or think. that's some of the insanity part of the disease. make amends, then make a decision to forgive yourself for those activities too, write them out, write out your decision to forgive, then live out that decision.
then, come to realize, in a very deep way, that TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. mull that over.
we can't change yesterday, it's over. it's done. the script has been written, the play has been acted out, the curtain has come down, and it's over. we may need to go back later, when the time is right, and deal more thoroughly with the issues of the past, but that's another day and it will take care of itself, with your co-operation and consent, when the time comes.
but today, we can deal with. you can deal with it. and you are dealing with it. in a very profound way. a very life-giving way. tommorrow, it''ll take care of itself and have worries of its own.
you know, janet, if you listen to the AA oldtimers, who used, abused, tortured themselves, were hospitalized, were institutionalized, jailed, lost their families, jobs, friends, doctors, etc. (got the the point nobody wanted to even try to treat them), they believed and were commited to the proposition that at times, the addict or alcoholic has "no effective mental defense against" using. none. zero. it's about the physical compulsion and mental obsession. and so, recovery is about turning over to our Higher Power our lives so that the "effective defense" will be provided by our Higer Power. the concept is connected to "powerlessness." and so, as you proceed going forward, latch on to that concept if you feel so inclined and are drawn to it. read the first step in a new way. read and experience the third step in a new way.
our Higher Power will provide for us what we cannot provide for ourselves ( i call it "grace," the grace of God, as i understand him. others would probably call it something else). and then we trust -- which is hard for all of us -- but we must just Trust, with a capital "T." like jumping out of an airplane and trusting that the chute will open. that kind of trust.
you've convinced me of your desire. your desire to live a life that is substance free, except for medical necessity. now cultivate the desire for recovery. love it, embrace it, live it, breathe it, take it all in. let it change you and be not afraid. not just to get free of substances, but to live sober. in reality. sobriety. one day at a time. it won't be easy. but, as so many have shared here, it will be worth it. and you'll find a new freedom.
one bit of advice, that isn't really in the encouragement category -- when you go submit yourself to treatment, submit yourself. decide for yourself early on that you are going to work on the virtue of obedience. do what they tell you to do. listen to those who have blazed the trail for you. the oldtimers and the persons that you are going to submit yourself to for help. don't fight it. submit.
and know that my prayers are with you, cajun lady. we are all in this together.
and you know me by now, it's no secret, i ask our spiritual mother Mary, queen of peace, to intercede for those in distress (usually me). and as we say it, she has never been known to leave unaided one who seeks her protection or requests her intercession. and so, for you and your intentions and for your family, i pray now with scripture and address her in the way that those in her earthly life addressed her -- Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us and with us now in our hour of need. Amen.
janet, learn the tools necessary for living a life of sobriety. learn them well. be a good student. do your homework well, to the best of your ability. and know that within you lives one who is greater than anything in the world, and which will not be defeated. deep within your soul -- tap into it and listen closely. for deep within your soul, God lives, and he wants to express himself through you.
peace be with you today, janet. i'm sure you are emotionally exhausted.
Excelent advice Bob B.............Words we can all use.
Janet, You are in my thoughts and prayers as well.
Rick
Janet, You are in my thoughts and prayers as well.
Rick
thanks bob b, i knew you would have something to validate my feelings. i have been to the doctor, got some gabritil for cravings and klonopin for my nerves. i am feeling very weak and vulnerable. i will get back into program, work my steps and find a good sponsor...right now i am lightheaded from meds, but feel that they are a necessary step to keep me straight for my week of waiting. i am praying that my husband will continue to support my new lifestyle. though i feel that there will be some resentment of being treated like a child, all in all i know that he is doing what is best for me. i have too much to lose. i look forward to the regiment of a program designed to help me, as helping myself has not worked.
i have asked my husband to post to the website for answers on how to deal with my addiction. i have allowed him to read my posts of the desperation of wanting to stop.
being doped up, i'm not feeling a lot like posting, but i will be checking in with my circle of fellow addicts and friends for support...i still bless the day that i found this site and pray for the day where i can give my wisdom and experience to help others.
as i have said before, i love you all and love all the positive strokes that i am given daily.
i have asked my husband to post to the website for answers on how to deal with my addiction. i have allowed him to read my posts of the desperation of wanting to stop.
being doped up, i'm not feeling a lot like posting, but i will be checking in with my circle of fellow addicts and friends for support...i still bless the day that i found this site and pray for the day where i can give my wisdom and experience to help others.
as i have said before, i love you all and love all the positive strokes that i am given daily.
Janet, here is the scripture that i promised you so that you know that you are not alone in your struggles, from 2,000 years ago --
I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing (Rom.7:18-19).
Hello everyone: I've been taking percocet and smoking pot pretty heavily for the past five years. I tried to quit halfheartedly two years ago, slipped. Seriously tried to quit last July. Slipped. I've been clean since the end of February and have been doing some hard thinking. I've felt pretty lousy and it's only recently I can string five words together. BobB's post meant a lot to me -- especially the part about not feeling shame and guilt, both of which drove me right back to the same habits the previous times I tried to quit. I have a question (problem? dilemma?). I've read several posts about trusting in a higher good to help. Here's my thing. My therapist and I have pretty much established that my problems stem from an abusive childhood and that I failed to form a primary attachment with either of my parents. My problem is that I am unable to truly trust in anyone or anything. And I was raised by atheists -- people who looked down their noses at anything spiritual. It's like a foreign language or concept to me. I've had people I love and respect tell me that I have a soul, a jewel inside me and I'd really like to believe them but it's like asking someone who is color-blind to see red-green. And as I write this, I realize that none of these people I love and respect -- including my therapist -- even know that I smoke cigarettes, let alone cannabis and take percocet. I don't trust that they will hang in there with me if I tell them.
Can I get through this without believing in a God, Goddess or Gods? How do I find that state of grace which I suppose I've been trying to get at through drugs? Because I want to believe, I just don't have the spiritual/emotional vocabulary.
Can I get through this without believing in a God, Goddess or Gods? How do I find that state of grace which I suppose I've been trying to get at through drugs? Because I want to believe, I just don't have the spiritual/emotional vocabulary.
soccermom, the short answer to your question is absolutely "yes," you can effectively obtain relief from your addictions, and the physical compulsions and mental obsessions that drive you to use, accessing the 12 Step model, without belief in a diety, a God, a Godess, or any other source of power or creativity that most religous persons seek to communicate with.
many others have done so, they have blazed the trail and you can safely follow what they did.
what is required, most say, is that along the way a person, like yourself, will need to acqurie a willingess to consider that there may be a power or a force outside yourself that is greater than youself. there's more to be said about that, and what that means, but that can come in time and in another forum, perhaps.
there is reason for hope. and the "reason" is "reasonable." it can be grasped with the application of reason, not just faith. faith in the "higher power" can then follow, sort of like after a while we have faith that when we flip the light switch, the lights will come on in a room. we've seen it happen often enough that it is reasonalbe to conclude that when we do it, the lights will come on, even though we cannot "see" "feel" or "hear" the electricity. or how the wires are run.
as a place to start, i would suggest to you (and this is only a suggestion) that you start with the chaper "We Agnostics" in what is called the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and see if anything that is said there makes sense to you. if you don't have a copy, most book stores sell them for less than $10. amazon.com will send a used one to your doorstep for less than $12. or, the full text is available on line for absolutely free at the Alcoholics Anonymous website.
many who seek recovery and relief from addictions have shared your question. many who seek relief, have a "higher power" that they have some understanding of and they chose to continue to rely on their God, as they understand him, as a "power greater than themselves." some who have faith and belief in a diety, for one reason or other, chose not to use the diety as their higher power, but chose another "power greater than themselves."
so yes, belief in a diety is not necessary for your recovery.
that's good news !
and reason for hope.
if you want to pursue the topics further, spend some time here. yours is a very good question for all of us and especially for those who share your view of reality -- and ultimate truth.
_________________________
on the other questions and issues that you raise, and let's separate these from the other issue that you raise -- you seem to be seeking some deeper meaning in life. a craving to be "complete" or "completed." i think it's part of the human condition. many times, it causes questions to be asked by each of us.
questions like,
"who am I ?"
"who made me ?"
"why am i here ?"
"what is my purpose ?"
"if i was and am created and have a creator, does the creator want to communicate with me ?"
"can i communicate with my Creator ?"
if you want to pursue those, please clarify your post and let me know.
there are answers to these questions, and yes, from my experience, the answers are good, pleasing, full of hope and encouragement, worthy of pursuit --and fill the void and emptiness that you may be experiencing.
others have obviously described the benefits to you.
one question i might pose to you is: who would question that love exists ? we know, because we have experienced it, but we can't see, touch, smell, or hear love. love is beyond our senses. but we can't deny its existence -- but we know that it satisfies some need of ours. a deep need. in our very innermost selves. we need to love, and we need to be loved. in order to be complete.
some say, in order to survive.
maybe we also need to understand who we are and why we are here to be complete. maybe it's a real need that we have. maybe that is what you are really looking for.
answers.
ansers to questions we all ask, but don't always take or make to time to answer. some have asked these questions from childhood.
sometimes when we are able to anwer these questions, a lot of other things fall into place. we are whole. we are complete. we are fully human.
sometimes when we never answer these questions, or spend a lifetime ignoring them, everything seems to fall apart.
just some food for thought and reflection.
i hope i've helped.
and i pray that i have not confused you.
many others have done so, they have blazed the trail and you can safely follow what they did.
what is required, most say, is that along the way a person, like yourself, will need to acqurie a willingess to consider that there may be a power or a force outside yourself that is greater than youself. there's more to be said about that, and what that means, but that can come in time and in another forum, perhaps.
there is reason for hope. and the "reason" is "reasonable." it can be grasped with the application of reason, not just faith. faith in the "higher power" can then follow, sort of like after a while we have faith that when we flip the light switch, the lights will come on in a room. we've seen it happen often enough that it is reasonalbe to conclude that when we do it, the lights will come on, even though we cannot "see" "feel" or "hear" the electricity. or how the wires are run.
as a place to start, i would suggest to you (and this is only a suggestion) that you start with the chaper "We Agnostics" in what is called the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and see if anything that is said there makes sense to you. if you don't have a copy, most book stores sell them for less than $10. amazon.com will send a used one to your doorstep for less than $12. or, the full text is available on line for absolutely free at the Alcoholics Anonymous website.
many who seek recovery and relief from addictions have shared your question. many who seek relief, have a "higher power" that they have some understanding of and they chose to continue to rely on their God, as they understand him, as a "power greater than themselves." some who have faith and belief in a diety, for one reason or other, chose not to use the diety as their higher power, but chose another "power greater than themselves."
so yes, belief in a diety is not necessary for your recovery.
that's good news !
and reason for hope.
if you want to pursue the topics further, spend some time here. yours is a very good question for all of us and especially for those who share your view of reality -- and ultimate truth.
_________________________
on the other questions and issues that you raise, and let's separate these from the other issue that you raise -- you seem to be seeking some deeper meaning in life. a craving to be "complete" or "completed." i think it's part of the human condition. many times, it causes questions to be asked by each of us.
questions like,
"who am I ?"
"who made me ?"
"why am i here ?"
"what is my purpose ?"
"if i was and am created and have a creator, does the creator want to communicate with me ?"
"can i communicate with my Creator ?"
if you want to pursue those, please clarify your post and let me know.
there are answers to these questions, and yes, from my experience, the answers are good, pleasing, full of hope and encouragement, worthy of pursuit --and fill the void and emptiness that you may be experiencing.
others have obviously described the benefits to you.
one question i might pose to you is: who would question that love exists ? we know, because we have experienced it, but we can't see, touch, smell, or hear love. love is beyond our senses. but we can't deny its existence -- but we know that it satisfies some need of ours. a deep need. in our very innermost selves. we need to love, and we need to be loved. in order to be complete.
some say, in order to survive.
maybe we also need to understand who we are and why we are here to be complete. maybe it's a real need that we have. maybe that is what you are really looking for.
answers.
ansers to questions we all ask, but don't always take or make to time to answer. some have asked these questions from childhood.
sometimes when we are able to anwer these questions, a lot of other things fall into place. we are whole. we are complete. we are fully human.
sometimes when we never answer these questions, or spend a lifetime ignoring them, everything seems to fall apart.
just some food for thought and reflection.
i hope i've helped.
and i pray that i have not confused you.
two afterthoughts, soccermom --
first, trust often is a by-product of doing something, and experiencing the results. again, like the light switch. so we trust in the results. and we then have a reason for our hope that the light will come on. the faith and hope are then "reasonable" -- of the mind, not of the heart.
trust rarely comes from words. it comes from our experience or the experience of others -- we watch them and based on the results they achieved, it is reasonable to conclude that we will achieve the same results if we engage in the same activities. (like the writers of the Big Book and their "doing" the 12 Steps).
secondly, if you are inclined, thrust yourself into the steps. give them 30 days. don't trust them at all -- not one ounce. put no faith in them. zero. just do them. then look back after 30 days and decide whether to continue.
first, trust often is a by-product of doing something, and experiencing the results. again, like the light switch. so we trust in the results. and we then have a reason for our hope that the light will come on. the faith and hope are then "reasonable" -- of the mind, not of the heart.
trust rarely comes from words. it comes from our experience or the experience of others -- we watch them and based on the results they achieved, it is reasonable to conclude that we will achieve the same results if we engage in the same activities. (like the writers of the Big Book and their "doing" the 12 Steps).
secondly, if you are inclined, thrust yourself into the steps. give them 30 days. don't trust them at all -- not one ounce. put no faith in them. zero. just do them. then look back after 30 days and decide whether to continue.
janet, are you with us this evening ?
BobB,
It took me a while to find the thread this was on. Addicts, I swear, no short term memory.
I read We Agnostics in the Big Book. A first pass anyway. I asked my husband, "Do you believe in a Higher Power?" He said, "Yes. Many." (But not in a disrespectful way). I told him I feel like when I am spiritual I am faking it and he said everyone feels that way some of the time, doesn't mean it's untrue. He pointed out that I was trained to be skeptical, pragmatic and aggressively atheistic and there was a lot of unlearning to do.
So I'm going to have to work at this from the outside in. I have NO doubt that my children have souls. So why shouldn't I?
I read your post to Becca about living in gratitude which seems another way of grasping a Higher Power. I don't have to try to conceptualize a deity, infinity is too big to get my head around, I can give thanks to whatever. So I thank my lucky stars that my kids are healthy, gorgeous and amazing. I thank my lucky stars that I could put my life on hold for the hardest parts of withdrawal. I woke up to a really good cup of tea this morning and said, "Thank God," and laughed when I realized I meant it, even a little. Thank God it's today and not the middle of March when the 1,000 lb monkey on my back made suicide seem like a viable option. There are four birds perched outside my window right now and if I gave thanks for every bird I saw today, I'd be at it all day long, but that's no bad thing, is it? Metoo posted a message this morning saying she was in the same boat as me and the exchange got me through a bad part of the morning, so thank goodness for that, too. Thank goodness I happened on this site a couple of days ago. It's lifted me from a dark grey patch into a patch of sunshine. At the risk of sounding like Pollyanna, I know that when I'm depressed again, I can come here and shout for help.
Last night I saw a shooting star for the first time since I ever started taking any drugs -- a really bright blue shooting star. Coincidence? Dunno. I will choose for the next 30 days to believe that it was not coincidental. My husband didn't turn around in time to see it, too (because I will choose to believe for the next 30 days that this star was meant for me), but he said, "Make a wish now." So I thought, "If you're there, God, I don't want ever to have to go through another withdrawal."
I hope that when you say "spiritual practice" you mean that I do have to practice, as in dance, where you practice and the muscles get stronger and trained to the movement and then it becomes natural. So when I got my 3 am panic attack, instead of counting through my deep breathing I said over and over, "Okay, God, help me."
It's okay today. This site has been a godsend (and that's not a joke). I was raised never to ask for help. That's going to be a tough one for me to get over. You will note that I phrased my initial question to you as a philosophical issue. I suppose I was asking for help and got heaps of help for the asking. So thanks for that, too.
I know you're called on a lot on this site, so thank you for taking the time.
It took me a while to find the thread this was on. Addicts, I swear, no short term memory.
I read We Agnostics in the Big Book. A first pass anyway. I asked my husband, "Do you believe in a Higher Power?" He said, "Yes. Many." (But not in a disrespectful way). I told him I feel like when I am spiritual I am faking it and he said everyone feels that way some of the time, doesn't mean it's untrue. He pointed out that I was trained to be skeptical, pragmatic and aggressively atheistic and there was a lot of unlearning to do.
So I'm going to have to work at this from the outside in. I have NO doubt that my children have souls. So why shouldn't I?
I read your post to Becca about living in gratitude which seems another way of grasping a Higher Power. I don't have to try to conceptualize a deity, infinity is too big to get my head around, I can give thanks to whatever. So I thank my lucky stars that my kids are healthy, gorgeous and amazing. I thank my lucky stars that I could put my life on hold for the hardest parts of withdrawal. I woke up to a really good cup of tea this morning and said, "Thank God," and laughed when I realized I meant it, even a little. Thank God it's today and not the middle of March when the 1,000 lb monkey on my back made suicide seem like a viable option. There are four birds perched outside my window right now and if I gave thanks for every bird I saw today, I'd be at it all day long, but that's no bad thing, is it? Metoo posted a message this morning saying she was in the same boat as me and the exchange got me through a bad part of the morning, so thank goodness for that, too. Thank goodness I happened on this site a couple of days ago. It's lifted me from a dark grey patch into a patch of sunshine. At the risk of sounding like Pollyanna, I know that when I'm depressed again, I can come here and shout for help.
Last night I saw a shooting star for the first time since I ever started taking any drugs -- a really bright blue shooting star. Coincidence? Dunno. I will choose for the next 30 days to believe that it was not coincidental. My husband didn't turn around in time to see it, too (because I will choose to believe for the next 30 days that this star was meant for me), but he said, "Make a wish now." So I thought, "If you're there, God, I don't want ever to have to go through another withdrawal."
I hope that when you say "spiritual practice" you mean that I do have to practice, as in dance, where you practice and the muscles get stronger and trained to the movement and then it becomes natural. So when I got my 3 am panic attack, instead of counting through my deep breathing I said over and over, "Okay, God, help me."
It's okay today. This site has been a godsend (and that's not a joke). I was raised never to ask for help. That's going to be a tough one for me to get over. You will note that I phrased my initial question to you as a philosophical issue. I suppose I was asking for help and got heaps of help for the asking. So thanks for that, too.
I know you're called on a lot on this site, so thank you for taking the time.
hi soccermom!
i am so glad that you have found bob, he is well versed in the big book and other religious passages.
i am also proud that you have come to the realization that there has to be someone else stronger than you to help you overcome your adddiction.
as i have told people before that your higher power can be anything, including your cat, it is a being that you can rely on to take on the problems of your recovery, someone who is stronger than yourself.
years ago i didnt believe in God, i was raised catholic and the god i knew was not a forgiving god, but one that made you perform some source of penance for your sins.
now i believe in a forgiving god, one that no matter what has happened in your life, will forgive you as long as you accept him and Jesus as your saviour.
i wish you the best of luck with your battle. i have been once again humbled by an addictive drug, i am scared and depressed from it.
bob, i usually am in bed by 10, Seroquel is a wonderdrug for that, plus my husband refuses to let me stay up now, he's tired of getting up at 3am to turn the tv off...lol
i am so glad that you have found bob, he is well versed in the big book and other religious passages.
i am also proud that you have come to the realization that there has to be someone else stronger than you to help you overcome your adddiction.
as i have told people before that your higher power can be anything, including your cat, it is a being that you can rely on to take on the problems of your recovery, someone who is stronger than yourself.
years ago i didnt believe in God, i was raised catholic and the god i knew was not a forgiving god, but one that made you perform some source of penance for your sins.
now i believe in a forgiving god, one that no matter what has happened in your life, will forgive you as long as you accept him and Jesus as your saviour.
i wish you the best of luck with your battle. i have been once again humbled by an addictive drug, i am scared and depressed from it.
bob, i usually am in bed by 10, Seroquel is a wonderdrug for that, plus my husband refuses to let me stay up now, he's tired of getting up at 3am to turn the tv off...lol
Janet,
I've been feeling lonely and I am alone right now which is a huge trigger for me, so I appreciate your kind words. I was sorry to hear that you had a relapse (because I'm viewing addiction as a chronic disease). Those opiates are such a seductive trap, aren't they? The fact that they are doctor-prescribed makes it so easy to believe that they're good for you. I'm over the worst of the physical w/d and I'm worried that the guilt over all the lost time will just set me off again as has happened so often over the years. It sounds like you've turned it around again and good for you.
I didn't mean to butt into your thread, but the worry about going back on the drugs has been on my mind lately, and anyway, I'm so lame, I don't know how to start a new thread just yet.
A question. How on earth did you tell your husband? I have no idea how even to approach doing this as I have been so skillful about hiding for so many years. So deceptive. I don't like lying so I'm pretty honest about the little things and then there's this huge lie sitting in back of it all. He even told our marriage counselor how much he admired my frankness and I just squirmed. I've been telling myself that if I never take another drug again, I won't have to tell him about the past addiction but I suspect that if I don't tell him, I'm more likely to relapse. Because, even if I tell my doctor never to prescribe percs for me again, my husband, when I got stressed the other day, very sweetly asked me if I needed something to relax and offered me one of his percs. (He is not an addictive person. Two glasses of wine at most, doesn't smoke, his perc prescription lasts him half a year.) Someday I'm going to accept his offer, and for me, I realize, I can't have just one. It rapidly becomes 24/7 and no way around that fact.
I know you have a lot on your plate right now, so put this question on the back burner if you like (I'm not telling anyone off this site for a while, I know that). Good luck turning the corner. It's so hard. Be good to yourself. If you're anything like me, you wouldn't dream of saying to any addict on this site the sorts of things you probably say to yourself. So don't shame yourself, don't blame yourself. I won't have it.
I've been feeling lonely and I am alone right now which is a huge trigger for me, so I appreciate your kind words. I was sorry to hear that you had a relapse (because I'm viewing addiction as a chronic disease). Those opiates are such a seductive trap, aren't they? The fact that they are doctor-prescribed makes it so easy to believe that they're good for you. I'm over the worst of the physical w/d and I'm worried that the guilt over all the lost time will just set me off again as has happened so often over the years. It sounds like you've turned it around again and good for you.
I didn't mean to butt into your thread, but the worry about going back on the drugs has been on my mind lately, and anyway, I'm so lame, I don't know how to start a new thread just yet.
A question. How on earth did you tell your husband? I have no idea how even to approach doing this as I have been so skillful about hiding for so many years. So deceptive. I don't like lying so I'm pretty honest about the little things and then there's this huge lie sitting in back of it all. He even told our marriage counselor how much he admired my frankness and I just squirmed. I've been telling myself that if I never take another drug again, I won't have to tell him about the past addiction but I suspect that if I don't tell him, I'm more likely to relapse. Because, even if I tell my doctor never to prescribe percs for me again, my husband, when I got stressed the other day, very sweetly asked me if I needed something to relax and offered me one of his percs. (He is not an addictive person. Two glasses of wine at most, doesn't smoke, his perc prescription lasts him half a year.) Someday I'm going to accept his offer, and for me, I realize, I can't have just one. It rapidly becomes 24/7 and no way around that fact.
I know you have a lot on your plate right now, so put this question on the back burner if you like (I'm not telling anyone off this site for a while, I know that). Good luck turning the corner. It's so hard. Be good to yourself. If you're anything like me, you wouldn't dream of saying to any addict on this site the sorts of things you probably say to yourself. So don't shame yourself, don't blame yourself. I won't have it.
soccermom, thank you for your reply.
i want to tell you something that you may not quite yet be able to understand, and i don't say that to you in a condescening way, please believe me.
but you are closer to understanding God and a diety than you might ever think. it is a wonderful expression of humility on your part to very honest about your spiritual beliefs. at least you have thought about it and actually have a good grasp of where you are in your faith, or doubt. many, many people have never given it the time to sort out the question -- where am i in all this right now ? not in the past, but right now.
whether you realize it or not, you have begun to offer to God, as you understand him, one of the most profound prayers that a person can say. and it's a very simple prayer. yet very, very profound. and it is simply, "thank God." actually if you never utter another prayer in your lifetime, this little prayer really is sufficient. and in it you have accepted the reality of a power greater than yourself, or why else offer thanks. you have also, in that prayer, acknowledged a person or power outside of yourself, separate from yourself.
and actually, you have perhaps unknowingly gone a step further in uttering the other prayer that you mention in your post, and that is "thank Goodness." for in that prayer of thanks, you are perhaps unwittingly acknowledging that there is a "goodness" separate from yourself that is worthy of your thanks.
and, soccermom, many of us believe that when we utter prayer of any kind, it is a spirit residing within us that draws us to that sort of prayer. a good and kind and gentle spirit, albeit unseen, which expresses itself through us and prompts us to say or offer those prayers of thanks to a power outside of us that is goodness itself, which some think of as God.
soccermom, none of us can fully grasp the infinite. none of us. it's too expansive for our little human minds to grasp. none of us can get beyond brief understanding and comprehension of a power so great and big, outside of time and space. but we can try. and throughout the history of mankind, humans have been drawn to grasping at it -- so there is this historical pattern from the earliest of times that would lead a rational mind to believe that there is something within humans that draw us there. to try, as best we can, to comprehend it.
working from the outside in, as you say it, is a perfectly rational approach. many throughout history have started from there. it's reasonable to do so.
i found that the evidence is just overwhelming there, once we begin to be willing to have the eyes to see. and following this post, i'm going to leave you with a few rational things to think about from that perspective. i do my best to find it and post it in a follow up post.
for now, gazing a awe and in wonder at the stars, and observing the beauty in creation all around us are sufficient. what in the world put all this in motion ? such order ? such perfection ? what maintains it all in existence ? pure happenstance ? co-incidence " from the animals of the ocean, to the birds of the air, to the animals of the jungle, to the flora and fauna. all co-incidental ?
and are we willing to say, in all sincerity, that we, as humans, are no more than the other animals crawling over and inhabiting this earth ? are we no more than them ? what distinguishes us from them ? only our minds ?
soccermom, you are closer than you realize to accepting help. you are closer than you think in relying an a power greater than yourself. in fact, in making a wish upon a star, a "wish," well -- is that not a prayer. haven't you not already expressed yourself in that one act of faith and more importantly "hope"?
in response to the latter part of your post, most definitely, we grow spiritually by "exercise." by doing something. thinking. acting. yes, by practice. and we internalize the external. it's an absolute legitimate approach. and, yes, we "practice" giving thanks.
god is goodness, soccermom. god is all good. god is love, pure love. and the god that is goodness uses us an his intruments to bring himself to one another. i believe that in all sincerity.
i thank god for you today. because you have helped my clarify my thinking. you caused me to "practice" and externalize my interior faith. for you today, i am grateful. and grateful for the opportunity to share.
the "help" that you are reluctant to ask for, soccermom, is already being offered to you. now, think about accepting it. accept the beauty of the stars, accept the gift of the birds of the air and what they teach us, accept the cup of tea that is so readily available -- we had accept the help of numerous others who make it accessible to us, like the grower, and the harvester, and the processor, and the shipper, and the retailer -- we need the help of so many others, just to enjoy a cup of tea in the morning. sounds a little absurd, but it's true. we are not self sufficient in any sphere of life. sometimes, accepting help or assistance is as hard a task as asking for help.
i'll do my best to follow up here. there's a thing or two that you might want to consider as you ponder the stars and nature. they to me, and the order in which they exist, are direct evidence of something much greater than me that put it all in motion.
for now, in your words, "thank God" and "thank Goodness."
hey, janet, i hope the days of waiting this week have not worn you down too much. and, hey, the thing about following "orders" from your husband. i've takin' orders from my spouse for decades. it's an expression of love, to be mutually obedient. like martha s. says, "it' a good thing."
soccermom, here's a hint towards the answer to the question "what makes us different from the other animals ? are we no more than them ?"
it's in the fact that we have free wills. other animals don't. they may have instincts, but not free wills. they have no freedom to choose their destiny.
and so, the question is, are we more like the animals, or were we created to be more like something or someone else ? if so, what or who ?
Janet
Just wanted to send a little love your way. I hope you're doing well. I'm sure its been a long week for you but you're that much closer to getting the help you need and deserve. You know everyone is here for you. I don't know if I ever mentioned this but we joined this board at about the same time
Love you
Frank
Just wanted to send a little love your way. I hope you're doing well. I'm sure its been a long week for you but you're that much closer to getting the help you need and deserve. You know everyone is here for you. I don't know if I ever mentioned this but we joined this board at about the same time
Love you
Frank
soccermom, here's the little ditty that i said i would post to you. there's some other things in it, but the reading brings us to give some thought to the order in the universe, and brings us to wonder about the cause of it all. pure accident ?
a way of taking a look at god, or the potential of god, or a diety, "from the outside in' as you say it.
4- The World:
We also need metanoia, a radical transformation, about our view of the world.
God created the heavens and the earth, and everything God created is absolutely glorious and perfect... "And God saw that it was good, and He approved it" (Gen.1)... it is impossible for God to do something that it is not perfect and glorious!... perfectly made, and with a glorious mission to fulfill.
Every star is perfect... every eagle and every cockroach and every leave is perfect to do what God wants them to do... and, of course, you and I were made perfect and glorious to do what each one us has to do in the plan of God.
Everything around us was created to sing the glory of God... and they do!... and each one of us, men and women, was created also to sing the glory of God, but we often don't do it, we are free!...
Our planet Earth weights 6,000 trillion tons... the Sun, 1,500,000 times more, and it is 150 million kilometers away... We all know that there are stars a million times larger that the Sun, and trillions of stars!... Antares of the Scorpion Constellation is 113 millions larger that the Sun ...and all of them moving at astronomical speeds... they all sing the glory of God...
Indeed our planet is like an atom compared with the universe... almost nothing!... but a great glorious device made to sing the glory and excellence of God.
"Atoms" are like start, with a Nucleus like the Sun, and planets around it called Electrons. The Sun has 9 planets around it moving at astronomical speeds... Silver has 47 Electrons (planets), Uranium 92, Hydrogen only one... each Electron is rotating around the Nucleus at 2,000 kilometers per second... in one second each Electron rotates 6 billion times around the Nucleus (yes, in one second!)... and never collide each other, otherwise they would explode as an atomic bomb...
A drop of water has 10,000 billion of Hydrogen atoms and 5,000 billion of Oxygen atoms... with a drop of water, 10,000 billions of Hydrogen bombs could be made, able to melt our whole planet in minutes...
The atoms, like the stars, sing the glory of God... the more the scientists discover, the louder resounds the glory of the Creator...
A "leaf" of a tree is another marvel made by God... there are over two billion different kinds of leafs. Some trees have over 20,000... and all the scientists of the world have been unable to make not even a single leaf...
Each leaf have stomas on its back, some of them over 14,000... "stoma" means "mouth", they open and close them to receive the carbon dioxide we exhale, then the plant converts it into oxygen, which is then put out through the same stomas... they are like our lungs, but doing the opposite effect... in fact, the plants are the cemeteries of our carbon dioxide and the factories of our oxygen... we could not live without their work... without them, all of us would become intoxicated with carbon dioxide, and run out of oxygen.
The eye of every insect has over two thousand million pieces to differentiate size, shape and color of every object (yes, 2,000,000,000)... science shows us it is something marvelous.
The ear of every dog and of every human is like a piano, but instead of having 85 keys has 10,500... and every key is not just a key, but it is like a harp with 36,000 cords with 720,000 audio cilia cells in each cord... a total of over one million of instrumental pieces... a wonder of nature!... yes, the more we know, the greater looks the glory of God.
An what about your brain, or the brain of a fish or a bird?... it is a wonder of wonders... Each brain has nerves going to each part of the body. If we could place each one of your nerves after another they would stretch not only to Los Angeles from New York, they would reach the Moon... and still more, and this is science, they will reach the Sun... over 150,000 million kilometers is the electronic complexity coming out of your brain.... yes, the nervous system of an unborn child is million of times more complicated and larger that the finest electronic equipment made by mankind.
And here come you and me... made at the image and likeness of God.
We look so little, like a speck in the universe, but we are the greatest creation of God, like God!... and each one of us made perfect for what we have to do:
Yes, you were made perfect!...
If you could have chosen the members of your child, you would have chosen the most beautiful and strong and perfect body, and the finest ears and brain and heart, and the most lovable face and eyes... in everything the "most" and the "best"... the person most intelligent, most kind, the best child, the very best human being...
Well, God made you!... He is your real Father... your parents nor any scientist can't make not even one of your hairs...
So when God created you, He created the "very best" and the "most" in everything of you, to do what you have to do:
If you could have chosen your eyes, instead of having the eyes God gave you, you may have chosen the eyes of an eagle, because they can see better, and you would have made a great mistake, because the eyes of an eagle are the best for the eagle, but yours, just are they are, are the very best for you to do what you have to do, not to do the job of an eagle...
If you could have chosen your body, may be you would have chosen a taller body, or a thinner or fatter one... and your would have been completely mistaken, because the one you have now is the very best body to do what you have to do, and not what your neighbor has to do... there is no one person in the whole world who has a better body than you, to do what you have to do...
If you envy someone's eyes or face or body or intelligence, you are insulting God, you are blaspheming against God... because God created you perfect, "the very best" and "the most" of every thing you have now, to do what you have to do... there is not a single person who ever had a single hair better that yours... you were made perfect!... Point.
I don't know your specific mission in the universe for what you were created, as I don't know the specific mission of every star, but God knows!.
God knows every star of the universe by name!... and He knows you so well and cares so much about you that He has counted every one of your hairs! (Ps.147, Matthew 10:30).
However, I know something important and sure about your mission now, here on earth:
You were created to sing the glories of God, like the stars and the birds and the mountains... everything reflects a bit of the glory of God... and you too!...
a way of taking a look at god, or the potential of god, or a diety, "from the outside in' as you say it.
4- The World:
We also need metanoia, a radical transformation, about our view of the world.
God created the heavens and the earth, and everything God created is absolutely glorious and perfect... "And God saw that it was good, and He approved it" (Gen.1)... it is impossible for God to do something that it is not perfect and glorious!... perfectly made, and with a glorious mission to fulfill.
Every star is perfect... every eagle and every cockroach and every leave is perfect to do what God wants them to do... and, of course, you and I were made perfect and glorious to do what each one us has to do in the plan of God.
Everything around us was created to sing the glory of God... and they do!... and each one of us, men and women, was created also to sing the glory of God, but we often don't do it, we are free!...
Our planet Earth weights 6,000 trillion tons... the Sun, 1,500,000 times more, and it is 150 million kilometers away... We all know that there are stars a million times larger that the Sun, and trillions of stars!... Antares of the Scorpion Constellation is 113 millions larger that the Sun ...and all of them moving at astronomical speeds... they all sing the glory of God...
Indeed our planet is like an atom compared with the universe... almost nothing!... but a great glorious device made to sing the glory and excellence of God.
"Atoms" are like start, with a Nucleus like the Sun, and planets around it called Electrons. The Sun has 9 planets around it moving at astronomical speeds... Silver has 47 Electrons (planets), Uranium 92, Hydrogen only one... each Electron is rotating around the Nucleus at 2,000 kilometers per second... in one second each Electron rotates 6 billion times around the Nucleus (yes, in one second!)... and never collide each other, otherwise they would explode as an atomic bomb...
A drop of water has 10,000 billion of Hydrogen atoms and 5,000 billion of Oxygen atoms... with a drop of water, 10,000 billions of Hydrogen bombs could be made, able to melt our whole planet in minutes...
The atoms, like the stars, sing the glory of God... the more the scientists discover, the louder resounds the glory of the Creator...
A "leaf" of a tree is another marvel made by God... there are over two billion different kinds of leafs. Some trees have over 20,000... and all the scientists of the world have been unable to make not even a single leaf...
Each leaf have stomas on its back, some of them over 14,000... "stoma" means "mouth", they open and close them to receive the carbon dioxide we exhale, then the plant converts it into oxygen, which is then put out through the same stomas... they are like our lungs, but doing the opposite effect... in fact, the plants are the cemeteries of our carbon dioxide and the factories of our oxygen... we could not live without their work... without them, all of us would become intoxicated with carbon dioxide, and run out of oxygen.
The eye of every insect has over two thousand million pieces to differentiate size, shape and color of every object (yes, 2,000,000,000)... science shows us it is something marvelous.
The ear of every dog and of every human is like a piano, but instead of having 85 keys has 10,500... and every key is not just a key, but it is like a harp with 36,000 cords with 720,000 audio cilia cells in each cord... a total of over one million of instrumental pieces... a wonder of nature!... yes, the more we know, the greater looks the glory of God.
An what about your brain, or the brain of a fish or a bird?... it is a wonder of wonders... Each brain has nerves going to each part of the body. If we could place each one of your nerves after another they would stretch not only to Los Angeles from New York, they would reach the Moon... and still more, and this is science, they will reach the Sun... over 150,000 million kilometers is the electronic complexity coming out of your brain.... yes, the nervous system of an unborn child is million of times more complicated and larger that the finest electronic equipment made by mankind.
And here come you and me... made at the image and likeness of God.
We look so little, like a speck in the universe, but we are the greatest creation of God, like God!... and each one of us made perfect for what we have to do:
Yes, you were made perfect!...
If you could have chosen the members of your child, you would have chosen the most beautiful and strong and perfect body, and the finest ears and brain and heart, and the most lovable face and eyes... in everything the "most" and the "best"... the person most intelligent, most kind, the best child, the very best human being...
Well, God made you!... He is your real Father... your parents nor any scientist can't make not even one of your hairs...
So when God created you, He created the "very best" and the "most" in everything of you, to do what you have to do:
If you could have chosen your eyes, instead of having the eyes God gave you, you may have chosen the eyes of an eagle, because they can see better, and you would have made a great mistake, because the eyes of an eagle are the best for the eagle, but yours, just are they are, are the very best for you to do what you have to do, not to do the job of an eagle...
If you could have chosen your body, may be you would have chosen a taller body, or a thinner or fatter one... and your would have been completely mistaken, because the one you have now is the very best body to do what you have to do, and not what your neighbor has to do... there is no one person in the whole world who has a better body than you, to do what you have to do...
If you envy someone's eyes or face or body or intelligence, you are insulting God, you are blaspheming against God... because God created you perfect, "the very best" and "the most" of every thing you have now, to do what you have to do... there is not a single person who ever had a single hair better that yours... you were made perfect!... Point.
I don't know your specific mission in the universe for what you were created, as I don't know the specific mission of every star, but God knows!.
God knows every star of the universe by name!... and He knows you so well and cares so much about you that He has counted every one of your hairs! (Ps.147, Matthew 10:30).
However, I know something important and sure about your mission now, here on earth:
You were created to sing the glories of God, like the stars and the birds and the mountains... everything reflects a bit of the glory of God... and you too!...
BobB, You are very good to take the time to write to me about this. Lots to think about. I know I'll keep rereading your words when I'm not quite so in the first flush of feeling like I've found a place where people really understand. In particular your words about perfect beings because the big thing that led me to drug use was that my parents made it pretty clear to me that I am everything they DIDN'T want in a child, starting with my gender and it's all downhill from there.
Counteracting my inbred skepticism about things spiritual is the fact that I also don't buy the idea of a random universe. That's as hard to swallow as The Infinite.
Something happened today, as odd as the shooting star. I read your post about giving thanks for every bird you saw one day and thought I'd do that today, too. Why not? We took the boys to see a movie (Coincidentally, they wanted to see Kingdom of Heaven. I got a secret chuckle from the title). On the way to the theatre, all the trees in the street were FILLED with a bazillion sparrows. We could not believe how many there were, had to raise our voices over the chirping. I was laughing my head off because the boys were pretending they were afraid they'd get pooped on and I was trying to give thanks for every sparrow. Coincidence? For 30 days, I'm going to suspend disbelief. I said I'd give thanks for every bird I saw today and I got seven city blocks of sparrows. I wonder if someone is trying to tell me something? If so, he's got a sense of humor. Of course, the skeptic in me says that a symptom of schizophrenia is thinking that random occurences convey secret messages. Some people take a lot of convincing, huh? I'm not listening to my skeptic today. Maybe when things get tough, and I holler for help, you could just say, "Remember the sparrows?"
Of course, why would he waste time on me? I mean, like, there's children hurting in Iraq. But isn't there something about God watching every little sparrow? Anyway, I think I walked under most of them today. If he watches every little sparrow, he certainly saw me. And I was sober.
Counteracting my inbred skepticism about things spiritual is the fact that I also don't buy the idea of a random universe. That's as hard to swallow as The Infinite.
Something happened today, as odd as the shooting star. I read your post about giving thanks for every bird you saw one day and thought I'd do that today, too. Why not? We took the boys to see a movie (Coincidentally, they wanted to see Kingdom of Heaven. I got a secret chuckle from the title). On the way to the theatre, all the trees in the street were FILLED with a bazillion sparrows. We could not believe how many there were, had to raise our voices over the chirping. I was laughing my head off because the boys were pretending they were afraid they'd get pooped on and I was trying to give thanks for every sparrow. Coincidence? For 30 days, I'm going to suspend disbelief. I said I'd give thanks for every bird I saw today and I got seven city blocks of sparrows. I wonder if someone is trying to tell me something? If so, he's got a sense of humor. Of course, the skeptic in me says that a symptom of schizophrenia is thinking that random occurences convey secret messages. Some people take a lot of convincing, huh? I'm not listening to my skeptic today. Maybe when things get tough, and I holler for help, you could just say, "Remember the sparrows?"
Of course, why would he waste time on me? I mean, like, there's children hurting in Iraq. But isn't there something about God watching every little sparrow? Anyway, I think I walked under most of them today. If he watches every little sparrow, he certainly saw me. And I was sober.
