I can not understand why it would be ok to get off your addiction but it is ok to be put on another chemical in place of it. I think that if you want to start living and you know you are addict just cold turkey it is the only way to do it!!! It is the hardest way but why get off one chemical and have the doctor put you on another. I Don't Understand
well.
I am gonna jump in here ... this has been a topic of much debate on this board and the battle field has been blood carpeted many times...lol... but... the fact remains that some people have taken narcotics or drugs in some form for soo long that their natural chemical are so imbalanced that they need time to get 'clean' from there drug of choice with out having to fight so hard the w/d and the cravings while getting the tools to life on lifes terms....
I am guessing you are talking about sub and methodone.... ok.... I think the ultimate best case senario was or is someone that cant or wont for what ever reason get clean on there own... after numberous attempts and relapses... so they go to the last house on the block... ( this should esp be true of methodone..) and get other medication... while on this they also set up a program of recovery .. counseling and meetings.. get a sponsor.. family support... ect.. after a period of weeks when they are feeling stronger and used to being not high.. they wean off of the sub.. ( as we are talking sub here) and then they start there clean recovery life... there natural chemical have already started to normalize to some degree they have some safty nets in place and they have tools to deal. This medication is an adjunct to there recovery program not a substitute to there drug of choice or a complete substitute for a real program of recovery....
now having said all that... sub is often mis used... it is taken as a quick fix. to avoid w/d... to avoid going to meetings and coming clean if you will with family or friends... they are using it for long periods of time like methodone.. it becomes there only recovery program.... unfortunately only recently did most realize that the w/d and addictiveness of this drug is the same if not worse than that of there doc... or so it has been reported... methodone is or can be worse...
Why do people do that... well fear ... fear of w/d... fear of stereo typing as an addict.... and sometimes just not really wanting recovery yet... sometimes people think they are done when clearly they arent... sad but true...
this is just my opinion... I did it the old fashion way....lol.... but in all honesty when i first tried to get clean... i would have jumped at sub... jumped I tell you.
i prolly would have abused it to.. but.... again i wasnt ready yet....
regards...
Teresa
I am gonna jump in here ... this has been a topic of much debate on this board and the battle field has been blood carpeted many times...lol... but... the fact remains that some people have taken narcotics or drugs in some form for soo long that their natural chemical are so imbalanced that they need time to get 'clean' from there drug of choice with out having to fight so hard the w/d and the cravings while getting the tools to life on lifes terms....
I am guessing you are talking about sub and methodone.... ok.... I think the ultimate best case senario was or is someone that cant or wont for what ever reason get clean on there own... after numberous attempts and relapses... so they go to the last house on the block... ( this should esp be true of methodone..) and get other medication... while on this they also set up a program of recovery .. counseling and meetings.. get a sponsor.. family support... ect.. after a period of weeks when they are feeling stronger and used to being not high.. they wean off of the sub.. ( as we are talking sub here) and then they start there clean recovery life... there natural chemical have already started to normalize to some degree they have some safty nets in place and they have tools to deal. This medication is an adjunct to there recovery program not a substitute to there drug of choice or a complete substitute for a real program of recovery....
now having said all that... sub is often mis used... it is taken as a quick fix. to avoid w/d... to avoid going to meetings and coming clean if you will with family or friends... they are using it for long periods of time like methodone.. it becomes there only recovery program.... unfortunately only recently did most realize that the w/d and addictiveness of this drug is the same if not worse than that of there doc... or so it has been reported... methodone is or can be worse...
Why do people do that... well fear ... fear of w/d... fear of stereo typing as an addict.... and sometimes just not really wanting recovery yet... sometimes people think they are done when clearly they arent... sad but true...
this is just my opinion... I did it the old fashion way....lol.... but in all honesty when i first tried to get clean... i would have jumped at sub... jumped I tell you.
i prolly would have abused it to.. but.... again i wasnt ready yet....
regards...
Teresa
I think this is easy. It is everyone's own addiction, and they need to do it their way. If it is c/t fine, methadone fine, sub fine. Whatever it takes, to be clean! Take care, Kim
Well, I am starting to clean up from Norco all over again (actually, I am in my first 24 hours) so I'm not an expert.
All I know is, I have tried to use alcohol to get rid of withdrawal in the past, and also took a couple of Xanax a friend gave me. For me, that just won't cut it. I know myself. I can switch addictions at the drop of a hat, and I know I have to go cold on everything.
But everyone is different and every one has their own path to take.
... and if mistakes are made, they are merely lessons to be learned.
All I know is, I have tried to use alcohol to get rid of withdrawal in the past, and also took a couple of Xanax a friend gave me. For me, that just won't cut it. I know myself. I can switch addictions at the drop of a hat, and I know I have to go cold on everything.
But everyone is different and every one has their own path to take.
... and if mistakes are made, they are merely lessons to be learned.
Nomore
What if you have tried c/t over and over but always ended back on your d.o.c.??? surely it makes sense to try it another way, and if substituting one drug for another for a while, gives you quality of life and it helps you to hold a job down ect ect ect then I would say, use any and all tools at your disposal to help you get clean!!! I have gone from being a complete out an out Junkie to someone who has a job and has a life that is no longer TOTALLY controlled by drugs, yeah sure I make sure I get my sub every day but I am no longer hounded by thoughts of using!!! (I haven't used my d.o.c. since the summer of 2002) and I am now down to 2mg of sub and i NEVER ever thought i would get this far, but I have and I shall be off sub soon so I shall say NO c/t is NOT the only way to get clean, it is one of the MANY ways to get clean and as someone said above each addict is different so no one way of recovery is the right way, as everyone is different!
Let me just say that sub IS NOT that magic little pill BUT for me it has been a vital tool on the road to recovery giving me the time to adjust back into 'normal' life and it has helped me to kick my disgusting habits, bridging the gap from recovery to being totally clean (obviously I am still in the process of getting clean but let me say that sub has been my salvation cos I doubt i would've lived through another relaspse)
Gabbi
What if you have tried c/t over and over but always ended back on your d.o.c.??? surely it makes sense to try it another way, and if substituting one drug for another for a while, gives you quality of life and it helps you to hold a job down ect ect ect then I would say, use any and all tools at your disposal to help you get clean!!! I have gone from being a complete out an out Junkie to someone who has a job and has a life that is no longer TOTALLY controlled by drugs, yeah sure I make sure I get my sub every day but I am no longer hounded by thoughts of using!!! (I haven't used my d.o.c. since the summer of 2002) and I am now down to 2mg of sub and i NEVER ever thought i would get this far, but I have and I shall be off sub soon so I shall say NO c/t is NOT the only way to get clean, it is one of the MANY ways to get clean and as someone said above each addict is different so no one way of recovery is the right way, as everyone is different!
Let me just say that sub IS NOT that magic little pill BUT for me it has been a vital tool on the road to recovery giving me the time to adjust back into 'normal' life and it has helped me to kick my disgusting habits, bridging the gap from recovery to being totally clean (obviously I am still in the process of getting clean but let me say that sub has been my salvation cos I doubt i would've lived through another relaspse)
Gabbi
gabbi and others..,
gabb,i to be clear your use of sub is the last house on the block example I elluded to... as you posted you tried c/t several times and always ended back to your DOC.. but... the one thing that I have issues with is how long is long enough on sub 1 month.. 6 months 1 year... 5 or forever.... and is there more to the persons 'recovery'... cause as I said before.... sub alone does not make a person clean and in recovery... there has to be more to it for there to be lasting success... that is not to say that there is gonna be lasting success for those of us that didnt do the sub thing but I think our chances are better cause we ( and the sub users that go to meetings or other recovery based things.) do recovery work.... ( dont remember is you go to meetings or not.... so forgive me..)
As for every addict being different and to each his own... if that were the case then why come her for advise on what worked for others?.... why not just flowder around and just stay on there own path in the dark.... we give them options and they choose but often (not you necessarily..) those choices at first are based on fear and taking the easy way out... how many times has someone not told there doc only to go back and relapse using that doc.... ?... they didnt listen... that is nature.... oh poo I am getting on a tanget...lol.....
anyway.. it is all cause we care about each other.... I no longer think that sub is a bad thing.. I think it has its place... but I still think that it is tooo easily given and for some it is the first line and used soley for a recovery plan.... in my estimation... sub does not equal recovery.... period....
imho...
respectfully...
Teresa
gabb,i to be clear your use of sub is the last house on the block example I elluded to... as you posted you tried c/t several times and always ended back to your DOC.. but... the one thing that I have issues with is how long is long enough on sub 1 month.. 6 months 1 year... 5 or forever.... and is there more to the persons 'recovery'... cause as I said before.... sub alone does not make a person clean and in recovery... there has to be more to it for there to be lasting success... that is not to say that there is gonna be lasting success for those of us that didnt do the sub thing but I think our chances are better cause we ( and the sub users that go to meetings or other recovery based things.) do recovery work.... ( dont remember is you go to meetings or not.... so forgive me..)
As for every addict being different and to each his own... if that were the case then why come her for advise on what worked for others?.... why not just flowder around and just stay on there own path in the dark.... we give them options and they choose but often (not you necessarily..) those choices at first are based on fear and taking the easy way out... how many times has someone not told there doc only to go back and relapse using that doc.... ?... they didnt listen... that is nature.... oh poo I am getting on a tanget...lol.....
anyway.. it is all cause we care about each other.... I no longer think that sub is a bad thing.. I think it has its place... but I still think that it is tooo easily given and for some it is the first line and used soley for a recovery plan.... in my estimation... sub does not equal recovery.... period....
imho...
respectfully...
Teresa
Tersea I have to agree.Being on sub doesnt make you clean but in some cases like gabby like me it has saved us.I know I would of just kept taking more & more of my DOC.I mean I was up to over 15 pills a day.Thats insane.Also some have issues of real pain they are trying to deal with.
But I see it happening all ready that the DR are starting to give this stuff out so easy.That is where all kinds of problems start.I also agree with Gabs.Sub is NOT a cure all.You gotta put work into it.Just like anything else in life.Just wanted to stick my nose in here hope you dont mind....mj
But I see it happening all ready that the DR are starting to give this stuff out so easy.That is where all kinds of problems start.I also agree with Gabs.Sub is NOT a cure all.You gotta put work into it.Just like anything else in life.Just wanted to stick my nose in here hope you dont mind....mj
not at all mj... good morning and hope all is well or at least better.... last time I heard you werent doing really well.... hope that is resolved or at least better....
best to you..
Teresa
best to you..
Teresa
Its getting better.Hopefully by next week I will have what I need taken care of.I dont know if I ever did but I REALLY wanted to thank you.I know I had a REAL BAD day & you were one of the first who answered me.Do you remember?I ended up talking private to a couple friends?Anyways I wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart.I was SO LOST & ALONE that day & even though we dont talk much you came right to my help.That meant & means alot to me & I just wanted to make sure I thanked you....mj
mj..
no thanks necessary but thank you anyway.... I am just glad things are better...
God Bless
Teresa
no thanks necessary but thank you anyway.... I am just glad things are better...
God Bless
Teresa
It takes what it takes..... do whatever you have to do to get clean. And then get your butt to a meeting and start your recovery program.
That's just my opinion.
CG
Teresa.... talk?
That's just my opinion.
CG
Teresa.... talk?
lisa..
sure... name it..
teresa
sure... name it..
teresa
I have to agree with all of the above, but this is where I'm at x
Although I haven't used my d.o.c. for nearly 3yrs.....gulp....thats how long I have been on sub!!! and yeah I would say that is way to long but for me personally, I have been an addict all of my adult life so turning it around shall take as long as it takes, and like my drug worker says, its working if I have managed to stay away from my d.o.c. which I have and it isnt a race it shall take as long as I need it to take, and for me I am in a much better position now than I have ever been. sub is giving me the time to adjust back into 'normal' life.. So my plan now is to get to a meeting cos soon I will have reduced off of sub completely, but my way of staying away from temptaition has been to just kinda hide from the world, now i know I can't do this for ever, and I know I need face to face support, but with saying that I am so scared to go to a meeting its untrue!!!. my mum doesnt want me to go cos she thinks its just a place where i can meet new contacts to score!!! so its a very tricky one for me at the mo, and also I would rather go to NA when I am off of the sub (thats been my plan all along) cos i believe they may not welcome me due to being on sub? oh I don't know, these thoughts go round and round my head. just know I am extremly scared to get to a meeting but I will, cos where I'm at now, its far more mental than any kinda physical symptoms, but to be honest, I think the physical pain is easier to deal with than the mental side of things?.
So I would have to agree with you teresa, but know this, I am working my recovery the best way I know how too................
love
Gabbi
Oh let me just say, in my personal experiance the w/d's from sub are way milder than that of H or meth, but I shall let you know what the final 2mg drops are like, as I said above for me now its more mental, I go a lil loopy each time i have reduced, thats why I have held it for a little, but the mentalness only lasts a few days, so for me sub was my last hope and it seems to have worked-so far .x
Oh and summat else, Teresa you said using sub alone doesnt mean you are in recovery?? I'm sorry, I know what your saying and yep that is prolly true BUT is one not in recovery if they have stopped abusing countless chemicals, and they are now only using their sub as perscribed by their doctor, isnt that recovery? learning to live life without drugs? cos although I havent really got any other support (yet) other than my mum a few friends and this board, does that mean I am not in recovery?? cos I for one KNOW that I am in recovery and if you would have seen me a few years ago you would understand and see just how far I have come cos I literally was gonna die due to drug abuse........................This is another reason why I havent gotten back to NA (no disrespect intended at all, I just want the opinion of someone who knows about NA) cos I feel they wouldnt want me unless i was off everything?
Although I haven't used my d.o.c. for nearly 3yrs.....gulp....thats how long I have been on sub!!! and yeah I would say that is way to long but for me personally, I have been an addict all of my adult life so turning it around shall take as long as it takes, and like my drug worker says, its working if I have managed to stay away from my d.o.c. which I have and it isnt a race it shall take as long as I need it to take, and for me I am in a much better position now than I have ever been. sub is giving me the time to adjust back into 'normal' life.. So my plan now is to get to a meeting cos soon I will have reduced off of sub completely, but my way of staying away from temptaition has been to just kinda hide from the world, now i know I can't do this for ever, and I know I need face to face support, but with saying that I am so scared to go to a meeting its untrue!!!. my mum doesnt want me to go cos she thinks its just a place where i can meet new contacts to score!!! so its a very tricky one for me at the mo, and also I would rather go to NA when I am off of the sub (thats been my plan all along) cos i believe they may not welcome me due to being on sub? oh I don't know, these thoughts go round and round my head. just know I am extremly scared to get to a meeting but I will, cos where I'm at now, its far more mental than any kinda physical symptoms, but to be honest, I think the physical pain is easier to deal with than the mental side of things?.
So I would have to agree with you teresa, but know this, I am working my recovery the best way I know how too................
love
Gabbi
Oh let me just say, in my personal experiance the w/d's from sub are way milder than that of H or meth, but I shall let you know what the final 2mg drops are like, as I said above for me now its more mental, I go a lil loopy each time i have reduced, thats why I have held it for a little, but the mentalness only lasts a few days, so for me sub was my last hope and it seems to have worked-so far .x
Oh and summat else, Teresa you said using sub alone doesnt mean you are in recovery?? I'm sorry, I know what your saying and yep that is prolly true BUT is one not in recovery if they have stopped abusing countless chemicals, and they are now only using their sub as perscribed by their doctor, isnt that recovery? learning to live life without drugs? cos although I havent really got any other support (yet) other than my mum a few friends and this board, does that mean I am not in recovery?? cos I for one KNOW that I am in recovery and if you would have seen me a few years ago you would understand and see just how far I have come cos I literally was gonna die due to drug abuse........................This is another reason why I havent gotten back to NA (no disrespect intended at all, I just want the opinion of someone who knows about NA) cos I feel they wouldnt want me unless i was off everything?
Gabs gotta say I think your right.There is no time limit on the sub.All I know is I NO LONGER want my DOC anymore.Today I go to get my sub script with my Bro in law who has NO problem swallowing 20 ultram at a time and ya know what???????I have NO not one desire to use the ultram.Not even alittle.I dont know if Id be strong right now to even walk into a pharmacy without it.Anyways good morning ladies.I enjoyed this point of view from all
If I sound funky it cause I still have eye booerd....mj
If I sound funky it cause I still have eye booerd....mj
nomo...74 , u dont have to do it cold turkey, im weaning off my drug...xanax and i will not be put on anything in place of it but im not going cold turkey u cant with xanax....so yeh just some input.
gabs,
I appologize for just reading your question/comment regarding recovery/sub... you dont fit into that comment concerning sub doesnt equal recovery.... cause you are here and you are getting some recovery work here.... it is not the best but you are getting some.. and you know that you need more and are at least trying to form a plan to get off of it and get a base of f2f suppport.... that is recovery work....
my point was meant to those that are wanting or are taking sub long term with no intention of ever getting off and/or doing nothing else... we have seen people get on sub and leave this board with its small contribution.. ( and in the grand scheme of things sometimes it is small in comparision to what else could be gotten.. but others dont know that cause they have never ventured out to see... ) but that is what I meant.... yes sub give someone time away from abuse there drug of choice but if that is all they are doing then in my estimation they are trading one drug for another... esp if they havent gotten honest with doctors, families and others in there lives...
this clearly didnt pretain to you... sorry if yo thought it did..... and please dont be frightened of NA... they dont make you tell you are on sub... they dont make you tell if or how long you are clean.... hell they dont even make you tell if you are an addict or just a visitor... all most have to say is hi my name is gabbi and I am new or I am just visiting... or glad to be here.... or what ever... please peolpe stop trying to make this something more than it is not.... it is not a punishment.. it is not a place where a secret society meets to plan drug scores .... it is a group of people that wishes to help others get clean...much like what we do here only it is structured and timed.. and in person.... that is mostly the only difference....plus it could save your life.....
if you read the success stories I think all but one if not all ... said that NA/AA saved them... what does that tell you.... I know it is normal to be scared but fear can kill.....
congrats on wanting to get off sub and take control of your life gabby.. i am proud of you and I wouldnt want to hurt you for the world... please take what I have said with love.... I dont mean to sound harsh.. I only want you to succeed and never have to be in pain again...
Teresa
I appologize for just reading your question/comment regarding recovery/sub... you dont fit into that comment concerning sub doesnt equal recovery.... cause you are here and you are getting some recovery work here.... it is not the best but you are getting some.. and you know that you need more and are at least trying to form a plan to get off of it and get a base of f2f suppport.... that is recovery work....
my point was meant to those that are wanting or are taking sub long term with no intention of ever getting off and/or doing nothing else... we have seen people get on sub and leave this board with its small contribution.. ( and in the grand scheme of things sometimes it is small in comparision to what else could be gotten.. but others dont know that cause they have never ventured out to see... ) but that is what I meant.... yes sub give someone time away from abuse there drug of choice but if that is all they are doing then in my estimation they are trading one drug for another... esp if they havent gotten honest with doctors, families and others in there lives...
this clearly didnt pretain to you... sorry if yo thought it did..... and please dont be frightened of NA... they dont make you tell you are on sub... they dont make you tell if or how long you are clean.... hell they dont even make you tell if you are an addict or just a visitor... all most have to say is hi my name is gabbi and I am new or I am just visiting... or glad to be here.... or what ever... please peolpe stop trying to make this something more than it is not.... it is not a punishment.. it is not a place where a secret society meets to plan drug scores .... it is a group of people that wishes to help others get clean...much like what we do here only it is structured and timed.. and in person.... that is mostly the only difference....plus it could save your life.....
if you read the success stories I think all but one if not all ... said that NA/AA saved them... what does that tell you.... I know it is normal to be scared but fear can kill.....
congrats on wanting to get off sub and take control of your life gabby.. i am proud of you and I wouldnt want to hurt you for the world... please take what I have said with love.... I dont mean to sound harsh.. I only want you to succeed and never have to be in pain again...
Teresa
Hey T,
Thanx for your reply, you had me a lil worried cos i was thinkin aw nooo would Na not concider me in recovery?? but i see i took what you said the wrong way so I apologise for that x
Of course I know all you have said is out of love and again I thank you for your support it means a lot to me x
I hope all is well with you?
I do another reduction this friday coming so i shall let everyone know how it goes x
love
Gabbi
Thanx for your reply, you had me a lil worried cos i was thinkin aw nooo would Na not concider me in recovery?? but i see i took what you said the wrong way so I apologise for that x
Of course I know all you have said is out of love and again I thank you for your support it means a lot to me x
I hope all is well with you?
I do another reduction this friday coming so i shall let everyone know how it goes x
love
Gabbi
You're doing great Gabbi....I'm so proud of you.
Redd
Hey Redd x
Thanx it means so much when you say that x
But I am really proud of myself too, cos like I said above at one point I never ever thought I'd get off that bloody merri go round!!! and I certainly never thought I'd get to such a small amount of sub!! so its just that final hurdle!!
Ged (my ex) said he'll come with me to NA so at least now I have someone to go with Phew!!
How are things with you my lil bouncing heart x x x
Thanx it means so much when you say that x
But I am really proud of myself too, cos like I said above at one point I never ever thought I'd get off that bloody merri go round!!! and I certainly never thought I'd get to such a small amount of sub!! so its just that final hurdle!!
Ged (my ex) said he'll come with me to NA so at least now I have someone to go with Phew!!
How are things with you my lil bouncing heart x x x
All I can say is that my opiate withdrawal was so bad that w/o suboxone, I couldn't function and was extremely suicidal. It has saved my life.