Im trying to figure out if not only how much we take make a difference in how easy or hard the withdrawal is but how OFTEN..( Which would point towards tapering of hours being of benefit)
Weird as it may seem, when it came to just taking the pills for feeling better i NEVER did my pills before noon or after 6.p.m.... which means for the last several years of my using, i did ridiculous amounts in only a 6 hour period..
I had several friends that took them round the clock and couldnt get out of bed without popping several to feel normal...
I wonder if limiting the hours, even though i took a ridiculous amount during those hours, turned out to help me when i quit...before i quit i could get up and do things and not even remember the pills till it was close to noon..
Im wondering if anyone else has had this experience and if so if that would indicate that tapering on an hourly rather than ONLY quantity is a positive thing..
Thanks for taking the poll...
Ali,
you pose a very interresting question. I was like you, I only did them at one time during the day. I guess I wanted the full punch at once. And this may seem ridiculas but, I felt if i would split the 20+ pills i would take at night the first batch would seem weak and because i was alreay a bit numb, I wouldnt be able to feel the next batch when i took them. As for tapering, I could never do it. It was cold turkey or nothing for me. I read many posts that talk about withdrawls for the first 5 day or so, that never happened for me, for the first two day off pills i was fine it was day 2-7 that sucked. I wonder if anyone else has the same situation.
Emnauel
you pose a very interresting question. I was like you, I only did them at one time during the day. I guess I wanted the full punch at once. And this may seem ridiculas but, I felt if i would split the 20+ pills i would take at night the first batch would seem weak and because i was alreay a bit numb, I wouldnt be able to feel the next batch when i took them. As for tapering, I could never do it. It was cold turkey or nothing for me. I read many posts that talk about withdrawls for the first 5 day or so, that never happened for me, for the first two day off pills i was fine it was day 2-7 that sucked. I wonder if anyone else has the same situation.
Emnauel
Thanks for posting
That was MY experience TOO!!!
Day one was never a big deal..in fact i went 24 hours many many times, not really on purpose but because i was sidetracked...but the day 2...whew..thats when the withdrawal started...and yup lasted about 8 days for me..
i have read and as i said have had friends that would feel withdrawal after only 8 hours of sleep...
Maybe there is something to the hours we took them..maybe we would have been better of spreading them out and ony suffering 3 days..lol
thanks again for the post hon..
hugs
Ali
That was MY experience TOO!!!
Day one was never a big deal..in fact i went 24 hours many many times, not really on purpose but because i was sidetracked...but the day 2...whew..thats when the withdrawal started...and yup lasted about 8 days for me..
i have read and as i said have had friends that would feel withdrawal after only 8 hours of sleep...
Maybe there is something to the hours we took them..maybe we would have been better of spreading them out and ony suffering 3 days..lol
thanks again for the post hon..
hugs
Ali
About 4-6 times a day, which is all day, basically. Sometimes all night too, if I felt like staying up. I did sleep a lot and never woke up, so I didn't use during the night. But I always woke up early excited for the best buzz of the day. I chose 24 hours.
I'm now officially outta here for the night. My big dog just peed on my little dog, so now I have to bathe him and go buy some black clothes. Ciao!
I'm now officially outta here for the night. My big dog just peed on my little dog, so now I have to bathe him and go buy some black clothes. Ciao!
I took them every 3 hours..4 or 5 at a time,right up until about 3 hours before bedtime,becasue if i too one too soon before sleep,there was no sleeping.~KIM
So i guess i had a routine?
So i guess i had a routine?
My favorite time to take them was in the morning and then throughout the day. I didn't seem to need them past 7 or so at night unless we were going out. But the high almost always went away after 11 in the morning. I then spent the day chasing it.
When I cold turkeyed it was full on w/d all day, all night. Made no difference to me at all.
When I cold turkeyed it was full on w/d all day, all night. Made no difference to me at all.
Thankyou for the posts thus far..
Im beginning to think that for most,there is definitely a ritualistic tendency surrounding pill use...especially looking forward to the specific time of choice used, for maximum effect...
Its interesting too that cigarettes hold very much the same impact on our day.
Looking forward to that morning cigarette, having one after a good meal, a cup of coffee etc...
Wonder if it feeds our need for consistency in a world where we feel everything most out of control or unpredictable...there is satisfaction in the predictability of rituals that bring us pleasure..
Problem is that as Lisa states, we end up chasing that same pleasure, thinking perhaps it will be as wonderful as it used to be just THIS ONE MORE TIME....it will make us feel great...
The only cigarette i truly enjoy is that morning one with coffee, and yet i smoke most of the day...till hubby gets home....its ritualistic,...its part of my daily routine and thus comforting..
Its been written that even women whom are in terribly abusive relationship wont leave that situation, for as horrible as it is- its a routine they know, they are familiar with...and fear of the unknown is so powerful they remain stuck...
Ritual or routine seeking behaviour....
Interesting facts to ponder..
Hugs
Ali
Im beginning to think that for most,there is definitely a ritualistic tendency surrounding pill use...especially looking forward to the specific time of choice used, for maximum effect...
Its interesting too that cigarettes hold very much the same impact on our day.
Looking forward to that morning cigarette, having one after a good meal, a cup of coffee etc...
Wonder if it feeds our need for consistency in a world where we feel everything most out of control or unpredictable...there is satisfaction in the predictability of rituals that bring us pleasure..
Problem is that as Lisa states, we end up chasing that same pleasure, thinking perhaps it will be as wonderful as it used to be just THIS ONE MORE TIME....it will make us feel great...
The only cigarette i truly enjoy is that morning one with coffee, and yet i smoke most of the day...till hubby gets home....its ritualistic,...its part of my daily routine and thus comforting..
Its been written that even women whom are in terribly abusive relationship wont leave that situation, for as horrible as it is- its a routine they know, they are familiar with...and fear of the unknown is so powerful they remain stuck...
Ritual or routine seeking behaviour....
Interesting facts to ponder..
Hugs
Ali
I used all day, everyday.
I would go into wd within 7 or 8 hours. It was awful.
I would go into wd within 7 or 8 hours. It was awful.
I could barely move in the morning until I got them in my body. I took them as soon as my feel hit the floor, and didn't stop until 1-2 hours before bedtime. Like Kerry, if I went too long without them, I would start feeling the pain. But that rarely happened, except during my sleeping hours, and I ALWAYS had a supply of them in my pocket. Always.
Let's see...my ritual...wake up-take a pill\, get out of bed-take a pill, drink coffee-take a pill, use the phone-take a pill, count pills-take a pill. And on and on. No wonder I was tired all the time. I got all that exercise taking pills.
like carol said, i couldn't move in the morning. i kept an 80mg oxy on my night stand wrapped in a tissue (so hubby wouldn't know) so as soon as my eyes opened i could grab in and chew it. wait about 20 minutes and i was good to go. when i was useing i couldn't wait to get up and get high. as far as useing at night..to me that was a waste af drugs, why use when you sleep? sick stuff isn't it? spending the day counting pills and cleaning the house. i would count my pills soooo many times a day and still forget how many i had?? i guess cause i was constantly takeing them thru out the day?
I am so thankful those days are long gone, well 7 months gone.
I am so thankful those days are long gone, well 7 months gone.
During my worst I remember every morning waking up in withdrawal because it had been only a short 7 hours or so since my last pill............So like many, was the first thing I did................Before my eyes were even open I popped a handfull of them............and then all day long after that.
Withdrawals from Cold Turkey were 24/7 and wicked.
Withdrawals from Cold Turkey were 24/7 and wicked.
I think it is really interesting how many people have stated that they wouldnt take them at night, or before bed as it was a big waste and so they ( we) just didnt take them at that time..
Our brains were logically able to make that connection.." I wont take them 'cus i wont get a buzz anyway.." and yet in our last years of using, even though we weren't able to get a buzz..we kept using them anyway...
Why the difference?
Just how much does the withdrawals or the fear of withdrawals keep us hooked?
Is that why Sub seems to work for so many? Once you remove that fear of or experience of withdrawal, are we much more likely to rationalize that taking them is just a waste of time and something we no longer want to or are able to experience for a buzz?
Ive mentioned before that i had a sister that had numerous surgeries and was put on narcotics...when she started feeling better she stopped taking them cold turkey and suddenly got " the flu" My Mother sent me over to play nurse maid, plump up pillows, keep her company etc...but in hindsight there is no doubt in my mind that what she experienced was withdrawal...This sister is and was a perfectionist, never drank smoke, wouldnt think of doing anything unhealthy..believes her body is her temple...and still does...she uses multi grain pasta for cripes sake...wears face masks in public to prevent catching colds...lol
Had she thought it was withdrawal I have no doubt the experience would have been totally different for her and probably have a long lasting effect...her ignorance or lack of knowledge was a great protection...
In summary, Im wondering how our fear of withdrawal, the stereo-typical image of "THE ADDICT" and all the images that goes with that comes into play..
Is it better to know or not to??
Better to think of yourself as an addict, if your image has deep rooted stereotypes?? Yes or No...
Why are we able to use logic during our ritualistic or routine pill use, but not at other times?
Is it the fear of experience of withdrawal that makes the difference??
If so is it really , like my sister better to be oblivious to what your feeling>??
thanks for taking part in the poll.
Hugs to all
Ali
Our brains were logically able to make that connection.." I wont take them 'cus i wont get a buzz anyway.." and yet in our last years of using, even though we weren't able to get a buzz..we kept using them anyway...
Why the difference?
Just how much does the withdrawals or the fear of withdrawals keep us hooked?
Is that why Sub seems to work for so many? Once you remove that fear of or experience of withdrawal, are we much more likely to rationalize that taking them is just a waste of time and something we no longer want to or are able to experience for a buzz?
Ive mentioned before that i had a sister that had numerous surgeries and was put on narcotics...when she started feeling better she stopped taking them cold turkey and suddenly got " the flu" My Mother sent me over to play nurse maid, plump up pillows, keep her company etc...but in hindsight there is no doubt in my mind that what she experienced was withdrawal...This sister is and was a perfectionist, never drank smoke, wouldnt think of doing anything unhealthy..believes her body is her temple...and still does...she uses multi grain pasta for cripes sake...wears face masks in public to prevent catching colds...lol
Had she thought it was withdrawal I have no doubt the experience would have been totally different for her and probably have a long lasting effect...her ignorance or lack of knowledge was a great protection...
In summary, Im wondering how our fear of withdrawal, the stereo-typical image of "THE ADDICT" and all the images that goes with that comes into play..
Is it better to know or not to??
Better to think of yourself as an addict, if your image has deep rooted stereotypes?? Yes or No...
Why are we able to use logic during our ritualistic or routine pill use, but not at other times?
Is it the fear of experience of withdrawal that makes the difference??
If so is it really , like my sister better to be oblivious to what your feeling>??
thanks for taking part in the poll.
Hugs to all
Ali
I just don't see the big deal, Ali. Who cares if someone is an addict? Why is it a sin if someone is taking narcotics for pain, gets better, stops taking them, and goes thru withdrawal because of them? Why didn't you just tell her it was probably w/d so she's know what she was dealing with? I'm not being confrontational. I have just never been able to understand your point of view of being an addict. I guess I never will. I am not ashamed of being an addict and never have been. You already know that though, huh?
Hey all
F.Y.I.
forgot to mention that so far 67% of posters used during self designated times, meaning they were able to refrain from using round the clock...
Those that used round the clock were the ones that needed to have one before they even got out of bed..
There seems a relevance between how OFTEN taken ( not necessarily the amount) and how fast the withdrawals both started and lasted.
i suppose once you are tolerant, there is little difference between 4, 5 or even 6 pills...they just dont work so limiting the hours seem to be the deciding factor in when withdrawals hit..and how long they last..
Again, its very Interesting how many people used only during specific times..
A
F.Y.I.
forgot to mention that so far 67% of posters used during self designated times, meaning they were able to refrain from using round the clock...
Those that used round the clock were the ones that needed to have one before they even got out of bed..
There seems a relevance between how OFTEN taken ( not necessarily the amount) and how fast the withdrawals both started and lasted.
i suppose once you are tolerant, there is little difference between 4, 5 or even 6 pills...they just dont work so limiting the hours seem to be the deciding factor in when withdrawals hit..and how long they last..
Again, its very Interesting how many people used only during specific times..
A
Kat
Its no big deal...
these are just observations...and if you go back and read my sister story, you'll see that i say in HINDSIGHT, i realize she must have been in withdrawals but I didnt know she was.....at the time i had no experience or knowledge with withdrawal/narcotics...
There is no big deal here Kat and im trying to upset anyone, i am merely pointing out the possibilities of our fear of withdrawals influencing our overall length of pill use..
Our subconscious image of what an 'addict' is has to be taking into account as it is without a doubt, a big part of what keeps a lot of people "stuck' in the cycle of pill use...the denial..not wanting to "admit" that one is an addict, because of their subconscious image of what an addict is.... ( unduly influenced by the media, TV while growing up etc..)
i think you have misunderstood my purpose here Kat...
the reason this board is so great is that newcomers can come here and see that there is no "face" for a pill addict..they come in all ages, all races, and cross all social and economic barriers...
The poll started off as one that compared our duration of withdrawal, start of withdrawal to how OFTEN we took as opposed to how MUCH we took, but then i realized that 67% of posters WERE able to refrain from using during certain parts of the day...why could they do that at some times ( refrain) but not others?
...withdrawal or fear of withdrawals?? i dont know that what i was asking......which brought me around to the synopisis that we are currently discussing...and which seemed to upset you...does our unwillingness to admit we are addicted or "an addict" play a key role in stopping the use? many have dep rooted fears of withdrawals because of what they envision an "addict" goes through when getting off of drugs...thats all i was pointing out..sorry i upset you
This wasnt my intention, i apologize if it did so...
Hope that helps..
hugs
Ali
Its no big deal...
these are just observations...and if you go back and read my sister story, you'll see that i say in HINDSIGHT, i realize she must have been in withdrawals but I didnt know she was.....at the time i had no experience or knowledge with withdrawal/narcotics...
There is no big deal here Kat and im trying to upset anyone, i am merely pointing out the possibilities of our fear of withdrawals influencing our overall length of pill use..
Our subconscious image of what an 'addict' is has to be taking into account as it is without a doubt, a big part of what keeps a lot of people "stuck' in the cycle of pill use...the denial..not wanting to "admit" that one is an addict, because of their subconscious image of what an addict is.... ( unduly influenced by the media, TV while growing up etc..)
i think you have misunderstood my purpose here Kat...
the reason this board is so great is that newcomers can come here and see that there is no "face" for a pill addict..they come in all ages, all races, and cross all social and economic barriers...
The poll started off as one that compared our duration of withdrawal, start of withdrawal to how OFTEN we took as opposed to how MUCH we took, but then i realized that 67% of posters WERE able to refrain from using during certain parts of the day...why could they do that at some times ( refrain) but not others?
...withdrawal or fear of withdrawals?? i dont know that what i was asking......which brought me around to the synopisis that we are currently discussing...and which seemed to upset you...does our unwillingness to admit we are addicted or "an addict" play a key role in stopping the use? many have dep rooted fears of withdrawals because of what they envision an "addict" goes through when getting off of drugs...thats all i was pointing out..sorry i upset you
This wasnt my intention, i apologize if it did so...
Hope that helps..
hugs
Ali
No, Ali, wasn't upset. Just curious. I remember when you used to say you didn't want to call yourself an addict and didn't want to associate with any. I guess I was wondering if you still felt the same way.
Kat
I think thats great that you dont mind calling yourself an addict...
you say you have never understood my stance on being called an addict??
if you were unlucky enough to really know me..youd know its not specifically the term "addict' that bothers me....its ALL LABELS in general....
Society tries to conform us ...tries to "LABEL" us.. using nametags we as people are put into categories and Im totally against that...
I just think the world would be a nicer place without them...
we are judged and labeled by our religion, where we live, what kind of cars we drive, what we wear, the color of our skin, our language..the list goes on and on...
I like to think that one day we will see each other without labels...we are all human inhabitants of earth and as such are bound together in this life...all the labeling does is segregate...
i stiffen at ALL labels Kat..live in a trailer park, your a "red neck", believe in saving the forest? "tree huggers"...young and in trouble..your a "delinquent"
Gosh i could go on and on in all the ways we are being labeled.
I wont even get into the language and labels used according to our heritage, the places we are born, the color of our skin..Would the holocaust have exsisted without labels? The Jewish people were not only labled but forced to WEAR that label, a # tatooed on their skin- a badge on the arm to define them as such..
there really isnt any war i can think of that would have happened had there not been labels and thus a sence of superiority between one group of persons to another....
I really have a problem with it kat, and it goes FAR beyond the label "addict"
Weird or strange as it may seem to you I am very passionate about NOT using labels or suporting the use of labels, but i dont ask anyone to share in my opinion...it is just that..my opinion...
Hugs
Ali
I think thats great that you dont mind calling yourself an addict...
you say you have never understood my stance on being called an addict??
if you were unlucky enough to really know me..youd know its not specifically the term "addict' that bothers me....its ALL LABELS in general....
Society tries to conform us ...tries to "LABEL" us.. using nametags we as people are put into categories and Im totally against that...
I just think the world would be a nicer place without them...
we are judged and labeled by our religion, where we live, what kind of cars we drive, what we wear, the color of our skin, our language..the list goes on and on...
I like to think that one day we will see each other without labels...we are all human inhabitants of earth and as such are bound together in this life...all the labeling does is segregate...
i stiffen at ALL labels Kat..live in a trailer park, your a "red neck", believe in saving the forest? "tree huggers"...young and in trouble..your a "delinquent"
Gosh i could go on and on in all the ways we are being labeled.
I wont even get into the language and labels used according to our heritage, the places we are born, the color of our skin..Would the holocaust have exsisted without labels? The Jewish people were not only labled but forced to WEAR that label, a # tatooed on their skin- a badge on the arm to define them as such..
there really isnt any war i can think of that would have happened had there not been labels and thus a sence of superiority between one group of persons to another....
I really have a problem with it kat, and it goes FAR beyond the label "addict"
Weird or strange as it may seem to you I am very passionate about NOT using labels or suporting the use of labels, but i dont ask anyone to share in my opinion...it is just that..my opinion...
Hugs
Ali
p.s.
Kat
I've often been labeled a "NON CONFORMIST"
So be it..if i must wear a label thats one ill wear with some amount of pride..
...
hugs
Ali
Kat
I've often been labeled a "NON CONFORMIST"
So be it..if i must wear a label thats one ill wear with some amount of pride..
...
hugs
Ali
12 Stepper. There ARE degrees of addiction, dependence, tolerance, etc. Weve discussed these differences already. Sometimes the mental aspect of something plays a major part in dealing with it. I dont know if I consider myself a "drug addict". I can have a drink whenever I want, which is not very often. In my younger days I loved the bars as much as anyone. A pack of cigarettes and 5 or 6 drinks was my idea of a good time. Stopped the cigs 20+ years ago. Drinking dimished greatly after having kids. Diminished even more so as the years went on. I dont know the last time I ever had more than two drinks in an evening - haha actually yes I can and it was just a few days ago - New Years Eve. I had a glass of wine early in evening eating out and then a glass of champagne at midnight. But I have no craving for the stuff whatsover. I would never go near a drug such as heroin or ectasy out of fear alone. Pills were and are too easy for anyone to get mixed up with - hence why there are so many of us. I dont feel being a drug addict or not being a drug addict implies any kind of inferiority or superiority but more so recognition of who we are. My family has a history of "abusing" substances such as alcohol and pills but, my mother for instance, dropped her fun loving drinking years ago when it effected her diabetes. She could have a glass of champage when she wanted and that would be it. My sister got caught up with valium but when her doctor told her she needed to cut down - she did - and eventually completely. I know I took a very strong liking to vicodin and I know it was hell to get clean from them, so I know I have to stay away from them and opiates altogether. I dont think Im a drug addict. I think if I persisted in the behaviour on and off for a lengthy period of time, then I would consider myself an addict. The reason Ive gone into such depth to explain this is because we have to respect ALL of our attitudes here. I belong on this board because it has given me invaluable information and a sense of belonging with people who share similar problems. Some here are indeed "drug addicts" and the only difference between them and someone who is not a "drug addict" is probably an earlier recognition to the problem. Do you understand what Im trying to say? Im not condoing anyone living in denial of being an addict. I just understand the mindset of those who dont feel its a fitting description of their problem.
