Anyone watching this on E! ???
Crap! I was planning on it but got caught up in Dr. Drew lol. Is it any good?
Yea I saw the last 30 minutes but I got it all on DVR. They were showing the Waismann Method again the rapid detox. I am in the middle of tapering, I have been on Oxycontin Dr. Prescribed for 5 years + Lortab and I have tapered to just Lortabs and I am on a set schedule. My Jump off day is coming in 3 weeks. I hope I can continue to wean to a very small dose before going CT on the 24th, The week of my vacation.
I've not heard of the Waismann Method. I've heard of rapid detox but I'm thinking its not the same thing as this one. The one I've heard of is impossible expensive and don't know anyone that has done it.
I caught the last 10 mins of that show... wish i had remembered it earlier!
I caught the last 10 mins of that show... wish i had remembered it earlier!
It was the Waismann Method and it's rapid detox and they said it costs $20K and that 74% were still clean a year later of course those are their numbers, Interesting show overall. Some of the experts on the show said in their opinion that method was not proven and could be dangerous.
Thanks Agent. Yeah, its the same thing I had heard of. Also, heard it could dangerous and not enough research had been done on it.
Tim did rapid detox, don't know if it was that method or not but it didn't work for him...
I did watch that show and it was almost like an advertisment for that guy's clinic? Am I wrong?
I did watch that show and it was almost like an advertisment for that guy's clinic? Am I wrong?
It's called UROD.I did it in 2001 at the Weisman Institute.What they tell/advertise to you is that it is a painless,fast way to detox off opiates.The only fast thing I discovered was how rapidly it depleted my bank account.In fact they did my story in "Wirleess" magazine.I may still have a copy.Of course they deleted the most scurlious part of my story.
Basically for the first day you are pumped up with IV morphine to make sure you are saturated,[That part was a big seller for me].You are then put under anesthesia and a Naltexalone patch to induce withdrawls while you're under.
Sounds fun,huh?
The next day I felt like a fish that hand been landlocked for 2 days.I've never felt so horrible in my life.They also want you out of the hospital pronto.I remember the flight back to Houston was a nightmare.When I finnaly made it back home,I was literally so weak I could barely make a phone call.I called the woman who was the salesperson for this miracle cure and proceded to tell her I had never been so sick in my life.Her curt response was "Well at least your not going through full blown withdrawls so you should be grateful". That's when things got ugly.Among a " fake lying b****" and some other not so spritual terms,I promised them they hadn't heard the last of me.
Two weeks later I was interviewed by Wired magazine.They said they wanted any negative experiences with UROD...I almost got a full page and yes that woman is still on my resentment list.
Basically for the first day you are pumped up with IV morphine to make sure you are saturated,[That part was a big seller for me].You are then put under anesthesia and a Naltexalone patch to induce withdrawls while you're under.
Sounds fun,huh?
The next day I felt like a fish that hand been landlocked for 2 days.I've never felt so horrible in my life.They also want you out of the hospital pronto.I remember the flight back to Houston was a nightmare.When I finnaly made it back home,I was literally so weak I could barely make a phone call.I called the woman who was the salesperson for this miracle cure and proceded to tell her I had never been so sick in my life.Her curt response was "Well at least your not going through full blown withdrawls so you should be grateful". That's when things got ugly.Among a " fake lying b****" and some other not so spritual terms,I promised them they hadn't heard the last of me.
Two weeks later I was interviewed by Wired magazine.They said they wanted any negative experiences with UROD...I almost got a full page and yes that woman is still on my resentment list.
Great post, Tim. I suppose you are not one to benefit from the easier softer way, even if it is not as easy or soft as advertised. I doubt if I would have done any better.
Hmmmm...UROD - I had to go back a few years to find what I posted about this procedure. This was one woman's experience with UROD (sounds somewhat like Tim went through.) I have no idea if she still is on Methadone, as I don't keep up with Methadone message board where this came from. Two words come to mind when I read these stories: Caveat Emptor.
Hugs all around -
Sammy
~*~*~*~*~*~*
by Sandra (name changed to protect privacy)
September 30, 1999
The wonderful angel of mercy that runs this website has asked me write the story of my experiences with UROD. I am writing this five days after I had the UROD procedure. Last Monday I flew to Richmond, VA to have the so-called 'miracle treatment', Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox. After I woke up from the procedure, the pain and withdrawal symptoms were so bad I prayed I would die. Even now, five days later, I have NEVER felt so bad from any detox or withdrawal from any type of opiate.
Since I've had the procedure, I have read many stories on this and other websites. I, more than anyone, know the prejudices surrounding drug addiction. I am 36 years old, the mother of a seven and five year old and most importantly, I have been a Registered Nurse for sixteen years. I am also a Lactation Specialist and have more specialty degrees behind my name than the alphabet has letters. I took classes and obtained most of these credentials while on methadone. As a matter of fact, I was sent to Washington, D.C., chosen over 4000 other applicants, to create test questions for nurses preparing for special certification in OB/GYN care,
I originally got hooked on opiates after two pretty bad car accidents. During my recovery, I was given many pain killers. When I was recovered from the accidents, I went back to work with a box full of narcotics, which I needed just to feel good enough to take care of my patients. When my physician stopped writing prescriptions for me, I felt it necessary to medicate myself. Within a few months, I was prosecuted by my employer for theft of narcotics. I was made to go to an in-patient drug rehab for six weeks. I lost my apartment because I had to live in a half-way house for one year. I was also on probation with the Nursing Board for three years. I was required to give two UA's per week, attend five NA/AA meetings and have psychiatric counseling weekly. I wish I could say NA/AA helps, but, it really is just some sort of substitution, in my opinion. One good thing that did result from this is that my, now seven year old son, was born drug free, but, now is diagnosed with ADHD. My employer did hire me back about a year after this incident.
In 1994 I became pregnant with my second child and had a horrible complication called Pre-eclampsia Toxemia. My blood pressure went sky-high, and I had unbearable migraine headaches. In the six weeks before her birth, my Dr. had given me several hundred Percocet. Even though I had taken prescribed narcotics during my pregnancy, my daughter was not tested for drugs.
After her birth, I went back to work. I had easy access to opiates, and my addiction worsened. I was very fearful of losing my job. I knew if I were suspected of using drugs, or taking narcotics from my place of employment, it would be the end of my career. This is when I decided to try methadone maintenance.
Methadone was a God send to me. I could inject my patients with the fully prescribed 100 mgs. of Demerol, and not be tempted to take any for myself. It was a miracle. I could work around opiates all day, and not want to use. The methadone completely curbed any narcotic craving.
A little over a year ago, the miracle came to an end. I had changed jobs, and was no longer around narcotics. I thought I would try to decrease my dose by 1 mg. a week. Two weeks after I started my detox, I began to get terribly ill, and felt extremely fatigued all the time. After a check-up with my Dr., I found out I have chronic active Hepatitis C. I can't count the number of times I have had needle sticks or wiped up body fluids, but, every Dr. I see says, "You got this from IV drugs, didn't you?". But, even worse than that, my Dr. would not let me start the Interferon treatment which I need so badly to treat my Hep C, until I detoxed from methadone. I was told it is a contraindication. So, I continued going down 1 mg. in my dose weekly until I got to 32 mg. I was having withdrawal symptoms. That, combined with Hep C symptoms made me almost unable to work. I felt I was going to lose my job as I started to miss work, fall asleep at work and could not perform the duties expected of me.
I am married to a bum of a husband who hasn't worked in eight years. But, as sick as I am, even a bum is nice to have around to help with the house and the kids. If I didn't continue to work, my kids didn't eat, we might have lost our home, cars, etc. I begged my Dr. to put me on short term disability because I had become too ill to work. He hemmed and hawed around for two months, and then told me I had to have a psychiatric evaluation. After the evaluation, the Dr. told me I had to detox from methadone for him to continue to treat me. The psychiatrist approved disability for four weeks only with the stipulation that I detox from methadone. He also required me to take Lithium every day. My diagnosis for the disability was Manic-Depression. I am no more manic depressive than the Man in the Moon...but, many Drs. think people with addictions have some type of dual diagnosis.
Since the UROD procedure, I have found out that the side effects of the Interferon may be tolerated better if I were on methadone. I have also learned that methadone is NOT contraindicated with the Interferon treatment. If the side effects of the Interferon treatment are as horrible as UROD, I have a fear that I will end up just another dead junkie.
It has now been five days since the UROD, and I still sometimes think a gun may have been a better option. Dr. Coleman in Richmond, VA did the UROD procedure. The day before the procedure, I had a mini-physical, blood work, gave a UA and an EKG. This was done at a very small 80 bed community hospital. The day of the procedure, I was taken to a pre-op area, where I was put in a gown, and they put a diaper on me, and I was stuck by needles numerous times for IV's. After that, I was pumped full of Valium-like drug, and I didn't remember anything until I awoke six hours later. When I woke up, I was in Hell. My legs, feet, butt, and back of my arms felt as if they were on fire. It was like lying on a bed of hot coals. They injected me with Benadryl and Catapress. My blood pressure skyrocketed and my temperature was 105 degrees. My mother was required to stay with me in the hospital as my support person. She told me I had convulsions and was delirious for 36 hours, and then slept for the next 36 hours. The procedure costs $3,100. I had to spend additional time in the hospital, so that cost will be added onto the bill. There was expense for car rental, hotel for my parents, and airfare.
As an RN, I would NEVER recommend anyone have this procedure. If you must detox from methadone, do it very slowly. No one should have to endure the pain of UROD. To wake up with all of one's pain receptors blocked, and not be able to take any meds that will help, is a nightmare. I would not wish this procedure on my worst enemy. May God walk with you and I know for a fact God loves and cares about us just as he does the "non-addict".
Hugs all around -
Sammy
~*~*~*~*~*~*
by Sandra (name changed to protect privacy)
September 30, 1999
The wonderful angel of mercy that runs this website has asked me write the story of my experiences with UROD. I am writing this five days after I had the UROD procedure. Last Monday I flew to Richmond, VA to have the so-called 'miracle treatment', Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox. After I woke up from the procedure, the pain and withdrawal symptoms were so bad I prayed I would die. Even now, five days later, I have NEVER felt so bad from any detox or withdrawal from any type of opiate.
Since I've had the procedure, I have read many stories on this and other websites. I, more than anyone, know the prejudices surrounding drug addiction. I am 36 years old, the mother of a seven and five year old and most importantly, I have been a Registered Nurse for sixteen years. I am also a Lactation Specialist and have more specialty degrees behind my name than the alphabet has letters. I took classes and obtained most of these credentials while on methadone. As a matter of fact, I was sent to Washington, D.C., chosen over 4000 other applicants, to create test questions for nurses preparing for special certification in OB/GYN care,
I originally got hooked on opiates after two pretty bad car accidents. During my recovery, I was given many pain killers. When I was recovered from the accidents, I went back to work with a box full of narcotics, which I needed just to feel good enough to take care of my patients. When my physician stopped writing prescriptions for me, I felt it necessary to medicate myself. Within a few months, I was prosecuted by my employer for theft of narcotics. I was made to go to an in-patient drug rehab for six weeks. I lost my apartment because I had to live in a half-way house for one year. I was also on probation with the Nursing Board for three years. I was required to give two UA's per week, attend five NA/AA meetings and have psychiatric counseling weekly. I wish I could say NA/AA helps, but, it really is just some sort of substitution, in my opinion. One good thing that did result from this is that my, now seven year old son, was born drug free, but, now is diagnosed with ADHD. My employer did hire me back about a year after this incident.
In 1994 I became pregnant with my second child and had a horrible complication called Pre-eclampsia Toxemia. My blood pressure went sky-high, and I had unbearable migraine headaches. In the six weeks before her birth, my Dr. had given me several hundred Percocet. Even though I had taken prescribed narcotics during my pregnancy, my daughter was not tested for drugs.
After her birth, I went back to work. I had easy access to opiates, and my addiction worsened. I was very fearful of losing my job. I knew if I were suspected of using drugs, or taking narcotics from my place of employment, it would be the end of my career. This is when I decided to try methadone maintenance.
Methadone was a God send to me. I could inject my patients with the fully prescribed 100 mgs. of Demerol, and not be tempted to take any for myself. It was a miracle. I could work around opiates all day, and not want to use. The methadone completely curbed any narcotic craving.
A little over a year ago, the miracle came to an end. I had changed jobs, and was no longer around narcotics. I thought I would try to decrease my dose by 1 mg. a week. Two weeks after I started my detox, I began to get terribly ill, and felt extremely fatigued all the time. After a check-up with my Dr., I found out I have chronic active Hepatitis C. I can't count the number of times I have had needle sticks or wiped up body fluids, but, every Dr. I see says, "You got this from IV drugs, didn't you?". But, even worse than that, my Dr. would not let me start the Interferon treatment which I need so badly to treat my Hep C, until I detoxed from methadone. I was told it is a contraindication. So, I continued going down 1 mg. in my dose weekly until I got to 32 mg. I was having withdrawal symptoms. That, combined with Hep C symptoms made me almost unable to work. I felt I was going to lose my job as I started to miss work, fall asleep at work and could not perform the duties expected of me.
I am married to a bum of a husband who hasn't worked in eight years. But, as sick as I am, even a bum is nice to have around to help with the house and the kids. If I didn't continue to work, my kids didn't eat, we might have lost our home, cars, etc. I begged my Dr. to put me on short term disability because I had become too ill to work. He hemmed and hawed around for two months, and then told me I had to have a psychiatric evaluation. After the evaluation, the Dr. told me I had to detox from methadone for him to continue to treat me. The psychiatrist approved disability for four weeks only with the stipulation that I detox from methadone. He also required me to take Lithium every day. My diagnosis for the disability was Manic-Depression. I am no more manic depressive than the Man in the Moon...but, many Drs. think people with addictions have some type of dual diagnosis.
Since the UROD procedure, I have found out that the side effects of the Interferon may be tolerated better if I were on methadone. I have also learned that methadone is NOT contraindicated with the Interferon treatment. If the side effects of the Interferon treatment are as horrible as UROD, I have a fear that I will end up just another dead junkie.
It has now been five days since the UROD, and I still sometimes think a gun may have been a better option. Dr. Coleman in Richmond, VA did the UROD procedure. The day before the procedure, I had a mini-physical, blood work, gave a UA and an EKG. This was done at a very small 80 bed community hospital. The day of the procedure, I was taken to a pre-op area, where I was put in a gown, and they put a diaper on me, and I was stuck by needles numerous times for IV's. After that, I was pumped full of Valium-like drug, and I didn't remember anything until I awoke six hours later. When I woke up, I was in Hell. My legs, feet, butt, and back of my arms felt as if they were on fire. It was like lying on a bed of hot coals. They injected me with Benadryl and Catapress. My blood pressure skyrocketed and my temperature was 105 degrees. My mother was required to stay with me in the hospital as my support person. She told me I had convulsions and was delirious for 36 hours, and then slept for the next 36 hours. The procedure costs $3,100. I had to spend additional time in the hospital, so that cost will be added onto the bill. There was expense for car rental, hotel for my parents, and airfare.
As an RN, I would NEVER recommend anyone have this procedure. If you must detox from methadone, do it very slowly. No one should have to endure the pain of UROD. To wake up with all of one's pain receptors blocked, and not be able to take any meds that will help, is a nightmare. I would not wish this procedure on my worst enemy. May God walk with you and I know for a fact God loves and cares about us just as he does the "non-addict".
Thanks guys for the stories. I have no interest in the procedure other than curiosity. When I was in the throws of my addiction I came across this method and even called the institute that Tim had his done, but never got any further than that. I have always been curious as to if it really worked since I did not go through with it. (Money is why I didn't)
Tim....Wired Magazine? I didn't know you were famous lol! Seriously, I would love to read that! Glad you survived the procedure at any rate!
It just goes to show you that if it sounds to good to be true then it prob is.
Tim....Wired Magazine? I didn't know you were famous lol! Seriously, I would love to read that! Glad you survived the procedure at any rate!
It just goes to show you that if it sounds to good to be true then it prob is.
Any chance you still have that article Tim? Be cool to scan and post it here....
That is such an amazing story Sammy. I so feel for that woman. I hope she is doing better now.
That is such an amazing story Sammy. I so feel for that woman. I hope she is doing better now.
I don't have the article anymore.I cleaned out a lot of stuff that reminded me of those days and I guess that was one.However,$ 3,100 for that treatment sounds unbelieveably cheap.Mine cost about $12,000 and that was in 2001.
Oh,I forgot to mention the 6 follow up calls with a psychiatrist.He sounded like he was doing cross-word puzzles when he talked with me and quite frankly I knew more about addiction than when he got his degree.His platitudes and pithy remarks only left me only more bittter.At one point,I just said there will be no more calls from me.You are simply a hired sycophant that must be getting a commison from the Institute.
All the people were so loving and caring before they got that check and then you felt simply like a zoo exhibit.
What I have found out with this disease is there is no easy way out.Suboxone and Methadone might delay the inevitable,but recapitulation will happen at some point, unless you choose never to stop.With Suboxone the landing might be a bit more softer but the info I've got from longterm Suboxone use is the length of PAWS is almost double what it is with full agonist.Not to mention the cost.
Oh,I forgot to mention the 6 follow up calls with a psychiatrist.He sounded like he was doing cross-word puzzles when he talked with me and quite frankly I knew more about addiction than when he got his degree.His platitudes and pithy remarks only left me only more bittter.At one point,I just said there will be no more calls from me.You are simply a hired sycophant that must be getting a commison from the Institute.
All the people were so loving and caring before they got that check and then you felt simply like a zoo exhibit.
What I have found out with this disease is there is no easy way out.Suboxone and Methadone might delay the inevitable,but recapitulation will happen at some point, unless you choose never to stop.With Suboxone the landing might be a bit more softer but the info I've got from longterm Suboxone use is the length of PAWS is almost double what it is with full agonist.Not to mention the cost.
I think that they shouldn't get paid until after the treatment is "successful". Wouldn't that be something? Maybe then you would get the aftercare that they describe in thier advertisments.
No, there is no easier softer way. As much as it sucks, you just have to bite the bullet and quit putting pills in your mouth. Those that choose to stay on Sub long term? I think it depends on the individual and I support whatever they choose to do. Methadone? Not so sure...IMO I think it's a way to still get high. Might be good for pain managment though. Don't know enough about it to put in a bucket.
I do know that Sub has saved my child's life...we'll cross the PAW's issue bridge when we get to it. At 22 I don't want him to be tied to this drug for the rest of his life.
It may require that he go to treatment to get off Sub.
No, there is no easier softer way. As much as it sucks, you just have to bite the bullet and quit putting pills in your mouth. Those that choose to stay on Sub long term? I think it depends on the individual and I support whatever they choose to do. Methadone? Not so sure...IMO I think it's a way to still get high. Might be good for pain managment though. Don't know enough about it to put in a bucket.
I do know that Sub has saved my child's life...we'll cross the PAW's issue bridge when we get to it. At 22 I don't want him to be tied to this drug for the rest of his life.
It may require that he go to treatment to get off Sub.
| QUOTE |
| Tim....Wired Magazine? I didn't know you were famous lol |
Really.I failed at Rapid Detox.....what a momentous occasion.LOL
I could have been on one of those TV shows about addiction.It seems like sex addiction is the latest craze.I'm certainly not having issues with that.
After I read the article I was truly dissapointed because they left out the conversation with that little b**** I talked to.Actually,what is so sick about the whole thing is that I came a day earlier than planned and made her have the doctor write me a script for some oxy's because I told her I was already in withdrawls.She started screaming at me for coming earlier than I was supposed to.I just told her to write the script or they wouldn't see the cashiers check.After that,she wasn't really pleased to have made my aquaintence.
I just wanted to see Beverly Hills and do some sight seeing.
No easy way is right! While sub did help me get some kind of life back including going back to teaching (for that I am truly grateful), you still have to bite the bullet as someone said at some point, if you do not wish to be on the medicine for life.
It is more than just the sub with paws, wouldn't it have to be....Everything seems to be real subjective to not only the person and their mental attitude, but also time in, doc and even their doctor...
I have no doubt in my mind that my husband should be dealing with what he is, and don't much think the sub is the reason ... while he did do it right with them more important of aspects he had a great doctor who he listened to and trusted who treated him for him, not just another addict, so the end wasn't bad physically getting off, there is no way to mentally undo 30 years of drug use and abuse, I can't see that happening, at all.
There is a huge unknown individuality factor, and the whole picture has to be looked at, every aspect. So many read the horror stories about getting off, but you got to ask questions like how long did they wean, where did they jump from, did they get stable and take a break after each drop which I think is way to important. This isn't to be punishment, and there isn't a rush and also far to many pay more attention to what others think, and of how others label, and forget that this is about them and do it for their best chance....also far to many allow themselves to be tripped out by what anothers wd was like and damn the brain doesn't need any self destructive unconscious trip like that.
I remember telling Brooke when he was getting off, what does he really know. He never used sub to get off of drugs, he doesn't read places like this, he has no idea if other people had good or bad experiences and I so wasn't going to be offering anything but a you can do this, everything will be fine...
And also I wonder about what the sub becomes for those without a lot of time in, if they will have in seeking a cure really made it worse for themselves.
But then what is not a lot of time in....A year, 3 years, 5 years.... and is that even allowed up for debate...
Will what they deal with in paws maybe be effected, surely methadone seems to effect it, but then isn't it rare to see a viocoden/codeine choose methadone ...
Methadone while different is relatively speaking in the same range as sub with that around 40 times stronger than morphine...
This is one of them things that will be very complicated and have no real answer to....
I have no doubt in my mind that my husband should be dealing with what he is, and don't much think the sub is the reason ... while he did do it right with them more important of aspects he had a great doctor who he listened to and trusted who treated him for him, not just another addict, so the end wasn't bad physically getting off, there is no way to mentally undo 30 years of drug use and abuse, I can't see that happening, at all.
There is a huge unknown individuality factor, and the whole picture has to be looked at, every aspect. So many read the horror stories about getting off, but you got to ask questions like how long did they wean, where did they jump from, did they get stable and take a break after each drop which I think is way to important. This isn't to be punishment, and there isn't a rush and also far to many pay more attention to what others think, and of how others label, and forget that this is about them and do it for their best chance....also far to many allow themselves to be tripped out by what anothers wd was like and damn the brain doesn't need any self destructive unconscious trip like that.
I remember telling Brooke when he was getting off, what does he really know. He never used sub to get off of drugs, he doesn't read places like this, he has no idea if other people had good or bad experiences and I so wasn't going to be offering anything but a you can do this, everything will be fine...
And also I wonder about what the sub becomes for those without a lot of time in, if they will have in seeking a cure really made it worse for themselves.
But then what is not a lot of time in....A year, 3 years, 5 years.... and is that even allowed up for debate...
Will what they deal with in paws maybe be effected, surely methadone seems to effect it, but then isn't it rare to see a viocoden/codeine choose methadone ...
Methadone while different is relatively speaking in the same range as sub with that around 40 times stronger than morphine...
This is one of them things that will be very complicated and have no real answer to....
I just wanted to see Beverly Hills....LOL @ Tim.
Tina...I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. I do understand that every person is different in thier experience with sub and done correctly, can be very successful with minimal withdrawals...is it that your husband is still on it? I thought he weaned off? Or is it your son? I'm confused. As usual. xxoo
Tina...I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. I do understand that every person is different in thier experience with sub and done correctly, can be very successful with minimal withdrawals...is it that your husband is still on it? I thought he weaned off? Or is it your son? I'm confused. As usual. xxoo
Tim was talking about the long term effects of being on sub and Paws....this is a huge subject now in many places....
Even if I can ask what is long term, it has only been here in the states 8 years, and my husband was on like 5 and 1/2 years total.
Now with that hubby in mind, I don't think that being on sub long term has much to do with what he is experiencing in paws now being off....
And I do wonder of people's experiences coming off and in the months after and if it is the drug, them, the drug they went from to sub and if they more upped their habit, the way they came off....
I think there are to many questions that could be asked of each individual situation to understand what the truth might be and even then everything is subjective to how prepared, how willing to deal with what just will be, everyone has to pay somewhere along the line for their actions, there is no free pass to living...
Even if I can ask what is long term, it has only been here in the states 8 years, and my husband was on like 5 and 1/2 years total.
Now with that hubby in mind, I don't think that being on sub long term has much to do with what he is experiencing in paws now being off....
And I do wonder of people's experiences coming off and in the months after and if it is the drug, them, the drug they went from to sub and if they more upped their habit, the way they came off....
I think there are to many questions that could be asked of each individual situation to understand what the truth might be and even then everything is subjective to how prepared, how willing to deal with what just will be, everyone has to pay somewhere along the line for their actions, there is no free pass to living...
| QUOTE |
| there is no free pass to living... |
no s*** and I made a lot of wrong turns.
I've heard some people say they never even had PAWS so it is a very subjective
topic.I only remember having them a couple of times my first year but then I hear some people say they have them that have been sober for 3 years.None of this is a perfect science and you are right,suboxone is really a new drug in the scheme of things.
When you get right down to it,every new drug that comes out has a hit or miss possibility.I remember my mom taking Preludin to lose weight in the 60's.All the women in the church were raving about this new diet pill that was totally safe.No wonder she was up until 3:00am singing about Jesus while mopping the kitchen floors.I remember as a kid thinking "What the f*** is this b**** taking and where is she hiding them?"
