Hi everyone,
I have spent the day just reading a lot of stories here and so many I can identify with, and some could be describing mine and my husband's experiences with our son over the last 6 years.
Our son started showing behavioural issues when he was 14. Was a daily battle to get him to school, and one time he was so angry at having to bike that he smashed a hole in the kitchen window. He floundered around at school and finally left at 15 and worked for a bit but hated it and decided to go back to another HS. He lasted 3 weeks before stopped doing any work or going and was asked to leave. He was using cannabis at this point and drinking and doing things like taking my car while we were out when he was 15, it breaking down and the police actually driving him home and telling me to pick up the keys at that station! (first of no consequences for his behaviour). He always had a story, a plan, a newer plan to get what he wanted from people. My dad has been close to him for his whole life and has been one of the biggest enablers in my sons life. My dad is quite wealthy and gave far too much to our son, even when we asked him not to.
At 17 our son got a part time job working in a computer store and he was doing really well and we were very excited, as was he, but he lasted 3 months, despite getting great feedback from his employers as he went on a drugs/alcohol binge and abandoned his employment.
Fast forward from then until this year, where he went on and off the dole (govt assistance) as he was never able to get himself or get up for the courses he had to attend to keep getting his money. He lived either at our house until we kicked him out as he wouldn't look for work, slept all day and up all night, in and out all hours, high, stoned, and then he would promise his granddad the world and stay there for a bit, and dad would pay for him to get new clothes, drive him around, badger him to apply for this and that, and then would give up and kick him out and then our son would stay with friends on their couches, till booted out, at his girlfriends mums, till booted out. On and on.
At the end of last year he decided to go to uni even though we said it was too much and didn't think he would be able to sustain it. He racked up a 2500 dollar OD from the bank and blew it on drugs/alcohol in two weeks or less. I forgot to mention that he had stolen my credit card when he was 17/18 and racked up 2500 dollars on this. We kicked him out and wanted him to have consequences for this but my father took him in. That was 5 years ago.
So as you can all have probably predicted, uni last approximately 3 weeks before he stopped going. And then he begged to come back as was going to get a grant to relocate to a city in the country we live that had suffered from an earthquake and they were encouraging the unemployed to go their to work. He managed to get his friend to give him a reference and got a good job there, a fresh start. But the night his money came that was needed to pay for a place to live down there, and get set up, he had withdrawn 2000 of it and got a friend to drive 2 hours away to buy a car that he hadn't actually driven or seen. And 700 dollars of the money was spent on partying. Needless to say the car broke down the night before he was due to leave and his granddad then paid for him to fly to the new city to start his job on that Monday. His granddad also paid for the car (we had all told him not to buy) to get fixed and didn't make our son pay for it before he picked it up.
Blah blah, fast forward, we get a little excited that he seems to be doing ok, despite him moving house a lot, and then the constant phone calls for food/money as he is "starving" and "hasn't eaten for 3 days". OUr nervousness grows. Then I get a call that he has a major drug problem and has started using 'P' (meth) and he wanted money to come home. I said No. Told him to get help there if he needed it.
He then rang to say he was going to leave his job that day and was coming home the next day. I said "don't do that". We then find out he got all manner of finance loans to buy cars (around 18000 I read somewhere) and also he was spending a s***load of money on drugs. He had repossessors after him and coming to his work, and possibly drug dealers too who wanted their money. His employer rang and was so disappointed as he had walked out of his job that day and hadn't even told them he wasn't going back. She said they really liked him, so much potential blah blah, but couldn't hold his job open. I bawled my eyes out at this.
We have banned him from coming here, but he has turned up a couple of times, in the middle of the night, and the police brought him here at 2am in the morning saying he was picked up for drunk and disorderly conduct. We told them to take him somewhere else.
He walks in whenever he wants and walked off with my husbands favourite pair of casual shoes. We are going to get a trespass order taken out as we do not want him here and our house feels unsafe. We have a 12 year old son who is waking up at every noise thinking it is his brother turning up. My husband and I are not sleeping well and I wake up at any noise with my heart pounding.
There are more stories over the years, but I don't think I will be describing anything different than what many people here have experienced with an addict son/daughter. The chaos, gaslighting, manipulation, guilt, sadness, anger, rage, hopelessness, frustration, fear etc etc. The list goes on.
We are finally coming to a place though where just have to allow him to get to whatever place he has to. Mine, my husbands and our youngest boys lives are just as important, and we can only look after ourselves now. Its so heart breaking and sad. My stomach is in turmoil as well as my thoughts and I feel like I'm just waiting for the next crisis.
We haven't seen him since Saturday but that doesn't mean anything. He is lurching around out there somewhere, and its just a matter of time.
I have always felt I could fix everything, and I am realising that I can't. No amount of lecturing, wailing, yelling, coercing, bribing, gnashing of teeth does a damn thing. Its a big lesson to learn. Just wish someone else other than my son had to teach it to me.
I feel for us all here. And thank you to those who come back to offer their wisdom and learning.
Mum:
Click on http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/aust...tralia/meetings and get in touch with Al-Anon in your area. They have been where you are and can help you get your life back.
All the best.
Bob R (in Canada)
Click on http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/aust...tralia/meetings and get in touch with Al-Anon in your area. They have been where you are and can help you get your life back.
All the best.
Bob R (in Canada)
Thank you for that. I am in New Zealand and looking for support group here. There is an NA but not sure if that is just for addicts.
If your son is choosing to live a life of theft and drugs, there are a few things you can do to protect yourself. File a stalking or personal protection order with the court to keep him away from your family. Go to the bank and get records of his thefts from your account and have him charged with fraud for stealing your money. Change the locks on your doors and make sure he has no key. If he breaks into your home, have him charged with home invasion.
Addicts steal from their families because they know the family won't get tough and have them arrested. We who have addicted loved ones put up with crimes that we wouldn't hesitate to prosecute if it was a stranger doing it to us.
It is so hard to have an addicted child, but being a victim of their problem is not fair. If we allow them to use us, it is counter-productive. It is not being harsh to hold them accountable for their actions...it is protecting us from their out of control behavior.
You and your family should not feel under siege from your son's criminality. If he is doing wrong to you, you need to stop it. No one should have to live in fear of their own child. Just because he is your offspring doesn't mean he has a right to abuse you.
Addicts steal from their families because they know the family won't get tough and have them arrested. We who have addicted loved ones put up with crimes that we wouldn't hesitate to prosecute if it was a stranger doing it to us.
It is so hard to have an addicted child, but being a victim of their problem is not fair. If we allow them to use us, it is counter-productive. It is not being harsh to hold them accountable for their actions...it is protecting us from their out of control behavior.
You and your family should not feel under siege from your son's criminality. If he is doing wrong to you, you need to stop it. No one should have to live in fear of their own child. Just because he is your offspring doesn't mean he has a right to abuse you.
Thank you for your feedback Roberta.
I did have police arrest him at the time of stealing my credit card but it was more a scare tactic and he wasn't charged. I regret that now. And I regret being pressured by some family members to not charge him as it would affect his ability to get work. It was a missed opportunity for him to have consequences.
My husband has already printed out trespass forms. One is logged with police, we keep one and a copy is given to our son. He doesn't have keys but I think we will get a locksmith in to put extra security on windows that could be opened by him as he knows the weak points.
It's crazy, or perhaps it's not to many here, but even though we have gone through years of this chaos, and now the added use of meth, I still have the niggling voice saying "he's your son, aren't you over reacting"? And yet I know that it is very real to wake in the night with heart pounding in fear because I thought I heard a noise on the porch. It is a crappy way to live. And it's taken a long time to get to THIS place of cementing those boundaries and backing them up with the law.
I've felt so frightened of him for so long, that it has become almost normal. My husband and I feel very lonely with it as people, family and friends have heard all about this for years. Which is why we both could do with support from people who KNOW what it's like.
My husbands brother died of a drug overdose in his 40's so my husband is familiar with how long addiction can keep everyone in misery. He is terrified for our son too, as well as us.
My husband has blown up with the stress of it over the years, and I enabled. I feel ashamed of my own behaviour when drinking in front of my son when he was a teenager and trying to be the "cool mum". It's embarrassing. And shame is a huge feeling when you are the parent of an addict. It's painful watching other people celebrate their 21 year olds achievements, while me and my husband are sitting around with heavy hearts.
I feel like such a useless, enabling, selfish, boundary less, s***ty mother to my oldest son.
I hope he will forgive me, and himself one day.
I did have police arrest him at the time of stealing my credit card but it was more a scare tactic and he wasn't charged. I regret that now. And I regret being pressured by some family members to not charge him as it would affect his ability to get work. It was a missed opportunity for him to have consequences.
My husband has already printed out trespass forms. One is logged with police, we keep one and a copy is given to our son. He doesn't have keys but I think we will get a locksmith in to put extra security on windows that could be opened by him as he knows the weak points.
It's crazy, or perhaps it's not to many here, but even though we have gone through years of this chaos, and now the added use of meth, I still have the niggling voice saying "he's your son, aren't you over reacting"? And yet I know that it is very real to wake in the night with heart pounding in fear because I thought I heard a noise on the porch. It is a crappy way to live. And it's taken a long time to get to THIS place of cementing those boundaries and backing them up with the law.
I've felt so frightened of him for so long, that it has become almost normal. My husband and I feel very lonely with it as people, family and friends have heard all about this for years. Which is why we both could do with support from people who KNOW what it's like.
My husbands brother died of a drug overdose in his 40's so my husband is familiar with how long addiction can keep everyone in misery. He is terrified for our son too, as well as us.
My husband has blown up with the stress of it over the years, and I enabled. I feel ashamed of my own behaviour when drinking in front of my son when he was a teenager and trying to be the "cool mum". It's embarrassing. And shame is a huge feeling when you are the parent of an addict. It's painful watching other people celebrate their 21 year olds achievements, while me and my husband are sitting around with heavy hearts.
I feel like such a useless, enabling, selfish, boundary less, s***ty mother to my oldest son.
I hope he will forgive me, and himself one day.
Yes, NA is for the addict... Nar-Anon is for family & friends of addicts.
To see a list of world-wide Nar-Anon meetings click on:
http://static.squarespace.com/stati....31.2014%29.pdf
You would get just as much help from Al-Anon 12 Step meetings too. Click on
http://www.al-anon.org.nz/meetings to get in touch with your local group(s).
There is more than enough damage, hurt and pain in an alcoholic/addicts life for everyone.. it truly is a "family disease".
The 12 Steps of AA/NA will help your son and The 12 Steps of Nar-Anon & Al-Anon will help the family.
I wish you and your family the best.
Bob R
To see a list of world-wide Nar-Anon meetings click on:
http://static.squarespace.com/stati....31.2014%29.pdf
You would get just as much help from Al-Anon 12 Step meetings too. Click on
http://www.al-anon.org.nz/meetings to get in touch with your local group(s).
There is more than enough damage, hurt and pain in an alcoholic/addicts life for everyone.. it truly is a "family disease".
The 12 Steps of AA/NA will help your son and The 12 Steps of Nar-Anon & Al-Anon will help the family.
I wish you and your family the best.
Bob R
Dear Sad KiwiMom, I am sorry what you and your family are going through.I to am the mother of a addict,my son that I am aware of has been an addict for over 10 years now that I look back I believe he was active in drugs before that....Stop feeling guilty guilt is a useless emotion. You did not introduce your son to Meth or any. Other drug for that matter...He did it he made the choice to experiment with drugs to steal to lie all the actions that come with being an addict.I have 2 sons my youngest is in medical school full scholarship is just so amazing,my oldest is in jail a addict a rap sheet to choke a horse, I to am embarrassed .My sisters brag my sons a lawyer my daughter is a writer, I understand trust me...I tell you of my 2 sons because I didn't get my youngest son the scholarship he did it....so I cannot take credit for it.....Chris I didn't inject the herion. Into his arm he did it...I will not own someone else's guilt....I have been tormented enough trying to help him thousands lost to rehabs lies credit card fraud the list is endless....I cannot fix him I lost myself trying to fix him....Reality is they are grown now these are their choices...but we do not have to except them. I am so done with my sons addiction ....He is in jail until January when he gets released he is not coming here...I am making it clear this time.If he wants to be a junkie he can be the best dam junkie around...it's his choice I gave him life ...but it is his life to live...I have come to realize either he will turn it around or die with the syringe sticking out of his flesh....not what I would've chosen for him but once again it will be his choice. If behavior is excepted there is no reason to change...now you said regarding the credit card fraud ...refile tell them you decided to prosecute....they are is a time period here it is 3 years....change the locks in your home...install a alarm. ..You cannot control the addict but you can take control of your home your actions...I have said this time and time again don't allow the inmate to run the asulym. .he will run over you through you screw you...they only wear the face of our children at the moment they aren't in there. ..their is a far greater force driving them.Stop feeling guilty these were and continue to be his choices....and as far as grandpa you must get through to him that money and buying things for him isn't making anything better if anything he is giving his son the tools to continue to live his drug infected life....You can't make him better but be strong be firm say you will not be allowed in this home to bully us steal from us abuse us or use drugs...this is a drug free home..these are his choices....He will eventually either choose to get better or his life will continue towards destruction. ..He will realize how wonderful his drug family is ...only when he decides to change will it get better...in the meantime focus on your younger son and each other....we are here for you.
Thank you for that Papa Bear. There isn't a NarAnon in our city but there is an Al Anon so that we will try that. We desperately need outside support, even if just to support us in sticking to our boundaries.
Thank you Christophers Mum for your in depth response. It has been over 3 years since the Credit Card theft so that ship has sailed but we are on to the Trespass Notice. I can imagine that you would totally understand the manipulation, anger and raging that comes with dealing with a drug addict. Now that he has progressed to Meth, this could possibly get worse. Its a nasty drug and as we can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth (mostly minimising use) we have to assume he is using back in our home town. I know for a fact that he has attempted to get it and was told to bugger off, but I only think a lack of funds has stopped him thus far. As you say, with his Dad and I, and now finally his granddad not enabling anymore, he is either going to spiral down or look at getting help. His life is out of control, debts, owing friends money, running out on rent/expenses, finance companies chasing him, no money because he forfeited a weeks pay at the job he abandoned. It is still hard to believe that he actually did it again, and I feel ALL of us have ourselves minimised his drug/alcohol use over the years.
The last time we saw or heard from him was on Saturday and it is now Wednesday here. If he did get any final pay then I would say we would be seeing him soon when that small amount of money runs out. We will be handing him his jeans he left here and his Trespass Notice.
What is totally ironic is that I actually work in a Mental Health Residential Facility (halfway house in the states) and we have guys exactly like my son in the facility I supervise. Actually, all of them are doing far better than he is, because at least they have meds, a roof over their head and food. Some even have jobs. However, even though I work in this field, it is a totally different thing when it is your own son.
Today, I am cleaning my house, listening to music, and looking forward to seeing my brother tonight at my parents house for dinner. Although it is also coupled with anxiety as my Dad and stepmother were quite cool with me the other day when I saw them as I had been firm with my Dad about enabling any further and in answer to his comment that our son (his grandson) has no Rock Bottom, I replied that he has not been allowed to get anywhere near there, so we shall see. So things a little frosty, coz that's how my family roll, but I am not going to get into anything as I already have a sore and heavy heart and refuse to take on any more from anyone.
Boundaries! Its still a work in progress as they have been sadly lacking my entire life.
I know a lot of people talk about Hope on here, but I hate Hope. I have been smashed in the face by Hope and it gets harder to get up from having hoped, hoped, hoped, that this time he will get it together. So Hope and I are not on speaking terms. I will just deal the best I can with whatever comes my way. And if its better than I thought, then great. But Hope can go jump off a cliff and die.
It just feels good to talk to others, even if over the internet, as I don't feel quite alone with it all.
Thank you Christophers Mum for your in depth response. It has been over 3 years since the Credit Card theft so that ship has sailed but we are on to the Trespass Notice. I can imagine that you would totally understand the manipulation, anger and raging that comes with dealing with a drug addict. Now that he has progressed to Meth, this could possibly get worse. Its a nasty drug and as we can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth (mostly minimising use) we have to assume he is using back in our home town. I know for a fact that he has attempted to get it and was told to bugger off, but I only think a lack of funds has stopped him thus far. As you say, with his Dad and I, and now finally his granddad not enabling anymore, he is either going to spiral down or look at getting help. His life is out of control, debts, owing friends money, running out on rent/expenses, finance companies chasing him, no money because he forfeited a weeks pay at the job he abandoned. It is still hard to believe that he actually did it again, and I feel ALL of us have ourselves minimised his drug/alcohol use over the years.
The last time we saw or heard from him was on Saturday and it is now Wednesday here. If he did get any final pay then I would say we would be seeing him soon when that small amount of money runs out. We will be handing him his jeans he left here and his Trespass Notice.
What is totally ironic is that I actually work in a Mental Health Residential Facility (halfway house in the states) and we have guys exactly like my son in the facility I supervise. Actually, all of them are doing far better than he is, because at least they have meds, a roof over their head and food. Some even have jobs. However, even though I work in this field, it is a totally different thing when it is your own son.
Today, I am cleaning my house, listening to music, and looking forward to seeing my brother tonight at my parents house for dinner. Although it is also coupled with anxiety as my Dad and stepmother were quite cool with me the other day when I saw them as I had been firm with my Dad about enabling any further and in answer to his comment that our son (his grandson) has no Rock Bottom, I replied that he has not been allowed to get anywhere near there, so we shall see. So things a little frosty, coz that's how my family roll, but I am not going to get into anything as I already have a sore and heavy heart and refuse to take on any more from anyone.
Boundaries! Its still a work in progress as they have been sadly lacking my entire life.
I know a lot of people talk about Hope on here, but I hate Hope. I have been smashed in the face by Hope and it gets harder to get up from having hoped, hoped, hoped, that this time he will get it together. So Hope and I are not on speaking terms. I will just deal the best I can with whatever comes my way. And if its better than I thought, then great. But Hope can go jump off a cliff and die.
It just feels good to talk to others, even if over the internet, as I don't feel quite alone with it all.
Wanted to say also Christophers Mum, thank you for sharing your story about your own family. Our 12 year old, although still young, is a totally different person to his brother. Very cruisy and engaged from when he was a baby. Instant connection between him and I, which we still have. I was 23 when my first was born, and 33 with my second. He has benefitted from my own growing up. The first son got the messy/boundary-less one in my 20/30's. But no going back now. Just gotta keep learning and growing.
Mum:
Alcoholics Anonymous groups often hold "open meetings" which the general public is able and encouraged to attend. They have a speaker and often celebrate clean/sober Anniversaries at open meetings.
Every alcoholic/user has a family that suffers just like you. There are millions of addicts and 10's of millions of suffering family/friends. You may find a great deal of understanding and strength from folks you meet at open AA/NA meetings.
Look your local AA and NA up in the telephone book or on-line and call them. Ask about available "Open Meetings" in the area. You can attend those meetings "no questions asked" and hear what is happening in your area re support.
All the best.
Bob R
Alcoholics Anonymous groups often hold "open meetings" which the general public is able and encouraged to attend. They have a speaker and often celebrate clean/sober Anniversaries at open meetings.
Every alcoholic/user has a family that suffers just like you. There are millions of addicts and 10's of millions of suffering family/friends. You may find a great deal of understanding and strength from folks you meet at open AA/NA meetings.
Look your local AA and NA up in the telephone book or on-line and call them. Ask about available "Open Meetings" in the area. You can attend those meetings "no questions asked" and hear what is happening in your area re support.
All the best.
Bob R
Dear Sad kiwimum, To me hope was a little girl that lived across the street...I to don't hope anymore to me hope and disappointment are the same..As much as it hurts and it does I cannot help fix Chris ,I cant...frustrates me to no end...so what do I try and do...believe me it's difficult but I have never been infected with drugs..I have been effected...I lost my only brother at age 32 to alcohol and drugs...my nephew is a opiate addict my son a herion cocaine whatever drug available addict...so as I cannot change them I have to work so hard on myself.It is hard when you cannot believe one word your son says...He says I love you as a tool to try and get something from me.I am truly sad ...I know within weeks when he's released he'll be all over me for help....I cannot allow him to live here I am broke I cannot offer him anything he used me up...I live paycheck to paycheck I have nothing to fall on myself...I will continue to suggest he go to a halfway home...I will know in my heart he will only add commas I can tell the way he speaks he feels he just pulled another one off...so what a few months in jail...and making new connections in there...no rehab has occurred there...nothing.so nothing will change ...the only thing that might change is us...work on yourself realize your younger son and husband need you...he's a grown man...it's his choices his decisions. ..He must be held accountable for his actions ....take control of what you can...and that is you and your actions.
Hey Christopher's mum, it's a relief to hear someone else talk about the futility of hope. I feel like it hinders me from working and focusing on myself, and what I have some control over, which is my behaviour and what I will and won't accept. Your situation sounds so stressful. I know the hurt of having them being nice to you, and then quickly followed by the thing they really want. Usually money, food, etc. I used to say that I would only ever buy him food but realised he was relying on that as to be able to spend his money on drugs/alcohol. So I stopped doing that even though it hurt to think of him hungry,but also knowing his choices kept him hungry.
You must be dreading your son coming out of prison as then the demands/pleading begins. I always remember reading an addict talk about ringing him mum from prison for about the 10th time asking her to bail him out once again. She told him he could rot in there and she was done. He said it was the most loving thing she could have done as he then had consequences and eventually got himself sorted. It really stuck with me and it reminds me of the Let me fall story on here .
We are all in such a painful place but I am feeling stronger about what I CAN do. It feels good to not feel so wobbly on my boundaries.
You must be dreading your son coming out of prison as then the demands/pleading begins. I always remember reading an addict talk about ringing him mum from prison for about the 10th time asking her to bail him out once again. She told him he could rot in there and she was done. He said it was the most loving thing she could have done as he then had consequences and eventually got himself sorted. It really stuck with me and it reminds me of the Let me fall story on here .
We are all in such a painful place but I am feeling stronger about what I CAN do. It feels good to not feel so wobbly on my boundaries.
Dear Sad KiwiMom mom, I wish my life on no one. I would never believe this would be my life..I cannot believe my own child would be capable of lying stealing forging credit card fraud I could go on...all he does is add commas to his actions...As I said he will be released in January and I feel sick at the thought. Since his last arrest some of the people in his life have moved on....He committed credit card fraud on his Dad so they no longer speak...Dad is done,his brother although never an enabler always loved Chris and wanted so much to have a brother, now states I haven't known him in ten years...his ex has moved on,now she had her issues as well but she would always stick by him...so guess that lands him in my lap. ..I cannot allow him to live here to do so would be misery wouldn't help him and would definitely end my current marriage.My current husband although he cares for Chris is so done with him,and me for enabling him.I keep trying to tell Chris to make a plan for a halfway home but he says everything is fine...Fine is now under the same catagory as hope...they don't exist to me...believe me I'm a wreck inside...it try hard to focus on what I do. ..I drive my husband nuts he says I'm ocd and I am so scheduled with all I do...I know I am cause I feel like at least I can control my actions. I am so damaged by Christophers addiction.I use to be a dreamer I don't dream anymore. ..I once believed every story had a happy endin,I now realize the foolish child in me wanted to hold tight. I once saw amd believed everyone had something to offer,I now realize some of those people sold drugs to my son ...I try my best everyday not for me...I go on because I have a beautiful 19 year old son.....I know it would destroy him if anything happened to me cause we are extremely close....everything I do I do for him...that's why we must realize our other children are no longer children but adults who make their choices....Chris has robbed me of ten years of my life he bought me complete misery...I love my son ,but I don't love who he is or what he did with the gift of life he received. ...but as we give them life they are ours for a short time...I don't know what the future holds...personally I believe he will stop and rebuild or die from addiction...I tend to believe he will not change....He trusts his drug buddies his best friends and after all why not they have truly enhanced his life and mine.
We all need "hope", it keeps us going.
Hope is not futile but my thoughts/actions can make it seem that way.
My motives, attitude and actions can "pervert" hope into perceived hopelessness
We all need boundaries, good healthy boundaries, for the benefit of ourselves and others.
We are children of God and need to get our lives back
Many of us were victims of alcoholic/addict parents and learned "unhealthy habits" which we carried into adulthood.
Those unquestioned "habits", thought patterns and prejudices are my worst enemy now.
If my son called from jail for the 10th time I wouldn't tell him to rot there but I would tell him I loved him but had to leave him there .. and I would be specific about the reason(s).
None of us can learn if nobody tells us exactly what the problem is. We are blind.
I was blind. I was unaware of my problem. Someone had to help me. I had to begin to change.
I came to a point in my life where I felt like Humpty Dumpty who had a great fall.
And all the King's horses & all The King's men couldn't put Humpty together again....
So MANY pieces .. so destroyed .... so "hopeless" !! I felt irreparably broken !!
Then my sponsor pointed out The 3 Pertinent Ideas at the bottom of AA's HOW IT WORKS
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10..._howitworks.pdf
He pointed to the 3rd Idea .. the last line, the summation ... of HOW IT WORKS-
"That God could and would if He were sought."
This is my experience, I'm not "telling anyone what to do" .
I am sharing my life in recovery since 1989, my experience, how I see today what's happening.
The 12 Steps are used by literally all recovery groups, they work whether you are the alcoholic/addict or the Al-Anon.
In 1989 I had come to the bottom of my physical/mental/emotional/spiritual being.
I was sleeping with a loaded rifle, fondling the trigger, ... trying to "make a decision"
I was that Humpty Dumpty and had run out of workable options (believe me, I tried everything)
I was so beaten that the only shred of earthly assistance was The 3rd Pertinent Idea.
I literally had nothing left to hang my hat upon except the "hope" of The 12 Steps and the very last thing that I wanted to do .... start seeking God (as I understood him)
I began with "a mustard seed" of hope and enough strength to get to the next meeting where the oldtimers gave me direction & strength to do it again tomorrow.
They loved me until I learned to love myself (trust me .. it took awhile)
The meetings today are both my school and my church.
I receive a good education and the warm blessing of God by putting myself in the presence of The Oldtimers, The Elders, the Spiritually guided guides/helpers/teachers on a regular basis.
I do it for me because it works. It works as described in HOW IT WORKS.
I also came to realize that I had to "experience" the program for myself.
I had to do it for me ... you couldn't do it for me.
I pray daily for the suffering alcoholic/addict, the families of those souls who are suffering-and most of all the innocent, helpless children of the disease(d)
I rest in God's grace knowing that HE will be there for my child/grandchildren if He is asked.
All the best.
Bob R.
Hope is not futile but my thoughts/actions can make it seem that way.
My motives, attitude and actions can "pervert" hope into perceived hopelessness
We all need boundaries, good healthy boundaries, for the benefit of ourselves and others.
We are children of God and need to get our lives back
Many of us were victims of alcoholic/addict parents and learned "unhealthy habits" which we carried into adulthood.
Those unquestioned "habits", thought patterns and prejudices are my worst enemy now.
If my son called from jail for the 10th time I wouldn't tell him to rot there but I would tell him I loved him but had to leave him there .. and I would be specific about the reason(s).
None of us can learn if nobody tells us exactly what the problem is. We are blind.
I was blind. I was unaware of my problem. Someone had to help me. I had to begin to change.
I came to a point in my life where I felt like Humpty Dumpty who had a great fall.
And all the King's horses & all The King's men couldn't put Humpty together again....
So MANY pieces .. so destroyed .... so "hopeless" !! I felt irreparably broken !!
Then my sponsor pointed out The 3 Pertinent Ideas at the bottom of AA's HOW IT WORKS
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-10..._howitworks.pdf
He pointed to the 3rd Idea .. the last line, the summation ... of HOW IT WORKS-
"That God could and would if He were sought."
This is my experience, I'm not "telling anyone what to do" .
I am sharing my life in recovery since 1989, my experience, how I see today what's happening.
The 12 Steps are used by literally all recovery groups, they work whether you are the alcoholic/addict or the Al-Anon.
In 1989 I had come to the bottom of my physical/mental/emotional/spiritual being.
I was sleeping with a loaded rifle, fondling the trigger, ... trying to "make a decision"
I was that Humpty Dumpty and had run out of workable options (believe me, I tried everything)
I was so beaten that the only shred of earthly assistance was The 3rd Pertinent Idea.
I literally had nothing left to hang my hat upon except the "hope" of The 12 Steps and the very last thing that I wanted to do .... start seeking God (as I understood him)
I began with "a mustard seed" of hope and enough strength to get to the next meeting where the oldtimers gave me direction & strength to do it again tomorrow.
They loved me until I learned to love myself (trust me .. it took awhile)
The meetings today are both my school and my church.
I receive a good education and the warm blessing of God by putting myself in the presence of The Oldtimers, The Elders, the Spiritually guided guides/helpers/teachers on a regular basis.
I do it for me because it works. It works as described in HOW IT WORKS.
I also came to realize that I had to "experience" the program for myself.
I had to do it for me ... you couldn't do it for me.
I pray daily for the suffering alcoholic/addict, the families of those souls who are suffering-and most of all the innocent, helpless children of the disease(d)
I rest in God's grace knowing that HE will be there for my child/grandchildren if He is asked.
All the best.
Bob R.
Dear Papa Bear, I am sorry I don't believe in hope anymore...I had hope once in my life we shared a great relationship.When I felt down sad or lonely hope would whisper to me she was there. ..she told me there is always hope and at that time I believed her.She comforted me many occasion and for her I was grateful.I was extremely close to my big brother.He was everything to me,my brother my hero...Dennis always would say I came in partying and I'll go out partying I had asked him time and time again to stop...I had hope he would.He passed away from his drinking and drugs...I still hurt over his passing.I got pregnant I had hope I would have a healthy child boy girl didn't matter I just hoped they'd be healthy....I went into labor he was a boy, he was sick ..I hope he would make it. ..He became a angel that night he earned his wings. A year later I became pregnant.I hoped this baby would be heathly my Chris was born. He was everything to me...I would just hold him and stare at his beauty.I was the best Mom I could be...team mother of his baseball team ours was the house where the kids would all.come....I had hope the happiness would last....time marched on we had hope Chris would do good in college...Then a new character entered the scene and bought along some of its buddies....Despair,lie,quite a list....Chris began to change. ...He lied got arrested ...I found bags of drugs on his bed with syringes...I confronted him...Hope promised me we'd be okay. .as hope was so prominent in my life when I needed her most I was frightened but I had hope...we'd be okay. ..numerous rehabs numerous arrests jail time many ...credit card fraud thousands upon thousands of dollars gone a divorce a younger son who will tell you I haven't known my brother in ten years....Papa Bear Hope left our home....I'm not quite sure when but she slipped out the door one night...I miss her terribly she did whisper one thing before she left....She said I Hope one day he will want to get better I Hope he will see exactly what the drugs did not only to him but his family. ...I Hope one day this will all be a distant nightmare in your life....I Hope Chris will decide to get help to kick his addiction....I Hope someday you'll have your son back.....that to me Papa Bear is what hope is to me....
Mom:
You said in a thread previously:
"Dear Sad KiwiMom mom, I wish my life on no one. I would never believe this would be my life..I cannot believe my own child would be capable of lying stealing forging credit card fraud I could go on...all he does is add commas to his actions...As I said he will be released in January and I feel sick at the thought. "
I wonder if you have lost hope for YOUR life over the actions of another person's deeds ?
Have you separated yourself from trying to control HIS life, which you have no control over,... and begun to heal YOUR life which is the only thing that you can address.
I wish you the best.
Bob R
You said in a thread previously:
"Dear Sad KiwiMom mom, I wish my life on no one. I would never believe this would be my life..I cannot believe my own child would be capable of lying stealing forging credit card fraud I could go on...all he does is add commas to his actions...As I said he will be released in January and I feel sick at the thought. "
I wonder if you have lost hope for YOUR life over the actions of another person's deeds ?
Have you separated yourself from trying to control HIS life, which you have no control over,... and begun to heal YOUR life which is the only thing that you can address.
I wish you the best.
Bob R
