Ive noticed that many addicts, before we even became users, never learned to identify and express our emotions. For whatever reason abusive parents, absent or addicted parents were not very good at feeling what we feel or even knowing what we feel.
I had parents who trained us to feel only what they were feeling. If my father was happy, we werent allowed to be sad. If he was in a bad mood, we werent allowed to have a good time. All my emotional cues were external and after long years of therapy Im only now learning to identify what I feel and figure out why Im feeling that way. For years I was uncomfortable admitting I had any feelings at all other than the appropriate feelings for any given situation (sad at a funeral, happy at a wedding) and was confused when I had conflicting emotions (i.e., Im relieved that shes dead, or Im sad that shes getting married because she wont be in my life the same way even though I like her fiance.) For the last several years, Ive avoided internal confusion by drugging any feelings into submission.
Before I realized, or admitted, I was addicted, I would get really angry at my husband for what I know now were (justifiable) grievances but blown WAY out of proportion because the level of drugs in my body was not high enough. I didnt have enough self-knowledge to say, Im feeling anxious because I need a fix, this anger is not because he left the toilet seat up AGAIN.
One of the things Im working on in therapy is learning to recognize my emotions and identify their sources. I think this will give me tools to make drug use less necessary. Its often something as simple as learning the names of my emotions. Instead of saying, I have a headache, (treat it with a percocet), Im learning to recognize that my head is aching because my shoulders are tight. My shoulders are tight because Im nervous about a social occasion I should be looking forward to (treat it with a percocet) and nervousness which I dont acknowledge spills into anger at my husband because he forgot to pick my dress up from the cleaners AGAIN (steal one of HIS percocet).
What I need to learn to do instead is take an aspirin for the headache, do some stretches for my shoulders, evaluate the social occasion -- whether to arrive late, leave early or skip it altogether. And buy a new dress (lol).
Im sorry if this seems lame or obvious, but Im a stranger to my emotions and Id appreciate your thoughts and experiences.
Cheers,
Gina
wow.. gina... read your post and absolutely it doesnt seem lame .... it is exactly what millions of child go through every day that grow up in homes where one or both parent as substance abusers or have some other issues... I for one am a survivor of such a home.... it is commonly put as 'walking on eggshells' but that phrase often doesnt do that experience and its long term ramifications justice....
we people please .... we often get with abusers.. or we have substance issues of our own... but at a minimium... we dont know our own feelings so how can we own them... they are often tied to someone else.....
It takes a lot of practice to do what seems to come naturally to other 'normal' people... saying what we need or mean... being assertive with our desires and expecting to be loved for who we are not what we can do.... that are often foreign concepts to us as we got messages in our homes that we wont be loved if we 'rock the boat'... ....
It is not just lip service to say... 'using drugs is only a symptom of a deeper issue'... in fact statistics show that over 85% of addicts have some other issue that they are hiding or trying to medicate that leads them to abuse and become addicts... it is just not as simple as taking more and liking it.... that is why treatment is a must in some form or another...
counseling is not a dirty word... my ex thinks that means that you are weak ... or damaged... I dont know.... it is just sad that some people in this world would rather be miserable and hide than try to spend what little time they have after they are free from that abusive home they lived in still traped in their fear based mind......
just my thoughts on your post.... therapy has helped me greatly... only thing is when I started even before I was an addict... I didnt listen to my therapist about me propensity for addiction... wish I had....
God bless.
Teresa
we people please .... we often get with abusers.. or we have substance issues of our own... but at a minimium... we dont know our own feelings so how can we own them... they are often tied to someone else.....
It takes a lot of practice to do what seems to come naturally to other 'normal' people... saying what we need or mean... being assertive with our desires and expecting to be loved for who we are not what we can do.... that are often foreign concepts to us as we got messages in our homes that we wont be loved if we 'rock the boat'... ....
It is not just lip service to say... 'using drugs is only a symptom of a deeper issue'... in fact statistics show that over 85% of addicts have some other issue that they are hiding or trying to medicate that leads them to abuse and become addicts... it is just not as simple as taking more and liking it.... that is why treatment is a must in some form or another...
counseling is not a dirty word... my ex thinks that means that you are weak ... or damaged... I dont know.... it is just sad that some people in this world would rather be miserable and hide than try to spend what little time they have after they are free from that abusive home they lived in still traped in their fear based mind......
just my thoughts on your post.... therapy has helped me greatly... only thing is when I started even before I was an addict... I didnt listen to my therapist about me propensity for addiction... wish I had....
God bless.
Teresa
good for you for realizing that it's time to feel again and that it's okay to feel that way....very good answer theresa
Teresa,
I didn't know the statistic, but it doesn't surprise me that 85% of addicts use in order to mask some underlying issue.
I'm curious to know for how many of us, that underlying issue is childhood abuse and/or sexual abuse.
Anyone able to share? It's hard, but remember, it wasn't your fault. No shame.
Best wishes,
Gina
I didn't know the statistic, but it doesn't surprise me that 85% of addicts use in order to mask some underlying issue.
I'm curious to know for how many of us, that underlying issue is childhood abuse and/or sexual abuse.
Anyone able to share? It's hard, but remember, it wasn't your fault. No shame.
Best wishes,
Gina
hmm, this is really making me think. My parents did not abuse any substances... but I can definately Identify with the "walking on eggshells" comment. My father was/has anger issues and would always belittle us and yell and scream to the point that we were plotting his death.... well not really, but we all wished he would leave. I remember asking him why he treated people on the street better than his own family and he said that people on the werent as screwed up as we were.... looking back on it, he was wrong, it was he that was screwed up.
Today, I have no problem identifying my emotions, but acting on them and expressing them I still have a hugh problem with. Also, I find myself unhappy if my wife is not happy, and feeling guilty about it, even if it has nothing to do with me.Whats up with that?
I think I have excelled in my career just to throw it in his face, kinda like saying who did you say was going to be digging ditches dad? I also like to throw it in his face that each of my children have there own bedroom and when I was a child 4 of us shared one while he made one of the bedrooms into a TV room just for himself to watch TV " away from the kids".... what an a******.....
boy o boy I need to get to a shrink...
BTW, I am paying my father back for all that... whenever he is at my house he has to drink out of the milk carton.....lol
Regards,
Tom+
Today, I have no problem identifying my emotions, but acting on them and expressing them I still have a hugh problem with. Also, I find myself unhappy if my wife is not happy, and feeling guilty about it, even if it has nothing to do with me.Whats up with that?
I think I have excelled in my career just to throw it in his face, kinda like saying who did you say was going to be digging ditches dad? I also like to throw it in his face that each of my children have there own bedroom and when I was a child 4 of us shared one while he made one of the bedrooms into a TV room just for himself to watch TV " away from the kids".... what an a******.....
boy o boy I need to get to a shrink...
BTW, I am paying my father back for all that... whenever he is at my house he has to drink out of the milk carton.....lol
Regards,
Tom+
Wow I have often wondered aout childhood issues, and the action to my problem or toilet seat being up lol...is to use. I was abused sexually off and on form 7 to 20 yrs of age. My father was very, very physically abusive. He would through tennis balls at my step brother while he was standing against a door, or if his shoe laces weren't tied he would hold his shoe lace and make him walk just to have him trip and fall. I saw all of this and was abused myself sometimes for something as simple as not finishing my hamburger...my goodness I was like 7 or 8. I don't know if that has any relation to my choice to use or my addiction or not . I mean I don't know if in some way deep down inside these things aren't a underlining result of some of the way I choose to live my life?
Love
Sarah
Love
Sarah
Hey Tom, your dad was my mom. God, what was their problem anyway? How could they be like that to their kids? Don't you look at yours and find that unimaginable? How could we have been such nothings to them, when to us our kids are everything? I'd die before I made my babies feel like that. My mom would be just as ....(stern is too nice a word) to my kids to this day if I allowed it. She knows better, nothing will bring the claws out faster than to even look at mine the wrong way. And she wonders why they adore their grandfather so much just as I did as a kid.....think about it, lady.
Good thread, Gina, making me think as you do so well. "wink" Love, Kat
Good thread, Gina, making me think as you do so well. "wink" Love, Kat
Thank you for sharing and helping me think this through.
Tom, I should have defined childhood abuse more broadly to include verbal and emotional abuse. The common denominator seems to be the inability of the parent to form a primary emotional attachment with the child so that the child grows up without the skills to form intimate and trusting relationships. We have diminished self-esteem and self-worth. We grow up believing that we are not lovable simply for who we are, but must earn love by pleasing, doing, accomplishing.
My wonderful therapist asked me why I took percocet, what it made me feel and why that feeling was attractive. I could only describe it by comparing the drug high to breastfeeding my babies (at a time when I had been drug-free for more than four years). It was a feeling of utter relaxation and perfection. There was nothing more important than what I was doing right at that moment -- being there giving my baby everything he needed right then. It was a feeling of utter contentment. And it was a feeling I had experienced rarely, if ever, before in my life.
So in that sense, my children saved my life. I learned about unconditional positive regard or, put more simply -- love, from giving to them what I was never given myself. I love my boys for who they are and not for what they do. I love them simply for being and nothing they do can ever diminish that love. This is not something I ever got from my parents. They were physically unaffectionate and emotionally withdrawn people. Approval from them came rarely and only for extraordinary achievement. They claim that this is cultural its simply the way Chinese parents behave. That may be true, but what comes to my mind now is that China historically had an opium addiction problem of epidemic proportions.
Some people learn to form a primary attachment with one parent but not the other, or with a grandparent. One of my therapists patients was saved by a loving nanny. Others are saved by belief in the love of a spiritual higher being. Some of us arent that lucky and try to find that feeling in a drug. I used to tell my therapist that despite the love my husband and children give me, I felt like a black hole an endless, yawning, insatiable need. The drugs masked that need. I used to say to my therapist of my parents, Well all of that happened 30 years ago. Im over it, lets move on. Only in the last couple of years have I come to accept the long-term effects of childhood abuse.
Tom, I should have defined childhood abuse more broadly to include verbal and emotional abuse. The common denominator seems to be the inability of the parent to form a primary emotional attachment with the child so that the child grows up without the skills to form intimate and trusting relationships. We have diminished self-esteem and self-worth. We grow up believing that we are not lovable simply for who we are, but must earn love by pleasing, doing, accomplishing.
My wonderful therapist asked me why I took percocet, what it made me feel and why that feeling was attractive. I could only describe it by comparing the drug high to breastfeeding my babies (at a time when I had been drug-free for more than four years). It was a feeling of utter relaxation and perfection. There was nothing more important than what I was doing right at that moment -- being there giving my baby everything he needed right then. It was a feeling of utter contentment. And it was a feeling I had experienced rarely, if ever, before in my life.
So in that sense, my children saved my life. I learned about unconditional positive regard or, put more simply -- love, from giving to them what I was never given myself. I love my boys for who they are and not for what they do. I love them simply for being and nothing they do can ever diminish that love. This is not something I ever got from my parents. They were physically unaffectionate and emotionally withdrawn people. Approval from them came rarely and only for extraordinary achievement. They claim that this is cultural its simply the way Chinese parents behave. That may be true, but what comes to my mind now is that China historically had an opium addiction problem of epidemic proportions.
Some people learn to form a primary attachment with one parent but not the other, or with a grandparent. One of my therapists patients was saved by a loving nanny. Others are saved by belief in the love of a spiritual higher being. Some of us arent that lucky and try to find that feeling in a drug. I used to tell my therapist that despite the love my husband and children give me, I felt like a black hole an endless, yawning, insatiable need. The drugs masked that need. I used to say to my therapist of my parents, Well all of that happened 30 years ago. Im over it, lets move on. Only in the last couple of years have I come to accept the long-term effects of childhood abuse.
Good post Gina alot of good info in it.Alot of us can learn from the words you speak.At least you know where your heading or at least starting to know...mj
mj,
LOL, I know where I'm heading. The same place we're all heading -- Death. It's everything between here and then that's got me worried.
Love,
Gina
LOL, I know where I'm heading. The same place we're all heading -- Death. It's everything between here and then that's got me worried.
Love,
Gina
Ok I gotta ask Do you study religion or something cause I dont know what you just said made me feel.....I dont know but I felt something lol
how do you always get me to laugh?That is a special gift...mj
how do you always get me to laugh?That is a special gift...mj
mj,
No, I've never studied religion outside of an intro college course yonks ago. I'm curious, what did you feel? I need you all to help me figure out emotions and reactions (especially to pain -- this IS the pain pills site, after all). Because I don't want recovery to be just life as before, but without drugs. It's got to be more than that.
You want a big laugh? I entered a psych. Ph. D. program and dropped out because the clinical students had all the best drugs -- that was my introduction to them, back in the 80's. That's probably why I'm really big on going to therapy, for anyone, whether they think they have it all sorted out or not.
When your voice comes back, I know you'll look until you find a therapist you can really trust and respect and I look forward to watching you grow.
Please share.
Love,
Gina
No, I've never studied religion outside of an intro college course yonks ago. I'm curious, what did you feel? I need you all to help me figure out emotions and reactions (especially to pain -- this IS the pain pills site, after all). Because I don't want recovery to be just life as before, but without drugs. It's got to be more than that.
You want a big laugh? I entered a psych. Ph. D. program and dropped out because the clinical students had all the best drugs -- that was my introduction to them, back in the 80's. That's probably why I'm really big on going to therapy, for anyone, whether they think they have it all sorted out or not.
When your voice comes back, I know you'll look until you find a therapist you can really trust and respect and I look forward to watching you grow.
Please share.
Love,
Gina
Kat,
Yeah, my mother is a saint, she had to be, not to have smothered him with a pillow years ago... But I think it turned her into Edith Bunker being married to him. I was the youngest of seven and always thought that they were just worn out from raising kids, ya know.
Gina,
My father is not that way with all children, it seems that once we hit 6-7 years old he wasnt interested in talking to us anymore... I remember having a close bond with him at a very young age, but for some reason it came to a screeching halt at around 6-7 years of age.
Regards,
Tom
Yeah, my mother is a saint, she had to be, not to have smothered him with a pillow years ago... But I think it turned her into Edith Bunker being married to him. I was the youngest of seven and always thought that they were just worn out from raising kids, ya know.
Gina,
My father is not that way with all children, it seems that once we hit 6-7 years old he wasnt interested in talking to us anymore... I remember having a close bond with him at a very young age, but for some reason it came to a screeching halt at around 6-7 years of age.
Regards,
Tom
Tom,
Good point. My father can be very sweet with babies and preschoolers but as soon as my children could speak (started separating and developing minds of their own), he stopped interacting with them. I think he learned that from his own father. I wonder how your father was treated by his. The age you get ditched yourself seems to be the age you stop learning how to form and teach trusting relationships.
At the risk of sounding like a cheap psychologist, I went into therapy when my children turned school age and I found myself often confused in my feelings about motherhood. How old is your son? Isn't he nearing the age you were when your father found himself unable to be close to you? Am I out of line asking this?
Cheers,
Gina
Good point. My father can be very sweet with babies and preschoolers but as soon as my children could speak (started separating and developing minds of their own), he stopped interacting with them. I think he learned that from his own father. I wonder how your father was treated by his. The age you get ditched yourself seems to be the age you stop learning how to form and teach trusting relationships.
At the risk of sounding like a cheap psychologist, I went into therapy when my children turned school age and I found myself often confused in my feelings about motherhood. How old is your son? Isn't he nearing the age you were when your father found himself unable to be close to you? Am I out of line asking this?
Cheers,
Gina
Gina,
Out of line, not at all. I once told you you can ask me anything.
You seem very educated in this, I say that because I too find myself dissconted to kids of that age. I have a 21 year old (step son, that I raised from the age of 3)that I think I overcame it slightly (hey we could always talk about baseball). The differnce was I attempted to get involved with things he liked, and we have always had a great relationship. But, I definately found it a chore, based on my experiences, I made an extra effort.
Now I have a 5 year old, he is my heart. It pains me to think I would have to push myself to be there for him emotionally, I honestly do not think it would happen, it couldnt, I love him too much.
Thank you Gina for bringing this topic up.
Best Regards,
Tom
Out of line, not at all. I once told you you can ask me anything.
You seem very educated in this, I say that because I too find myself dissconted to kids of that age. I have a 21 year old (step son, that I raised from the age of 3)that I think I overcame it slightly (hey we could always talk about baseball). The differnce was I attempted to get involved with things he liked, and we have always had a great relationship. But, I definately found it a chore, based on my experiences, I made an extra effort.
Now I have a 5 year old, he is my heart. It pains me to think I would have to push myself to be there for him emotionally, I honestly do not think it would happen, it couldnt, I love him too much.
Thank you Gina for bringing this topic up.
Best Regards,
Tom
Tom,
Youre very good at helping me think this through. First off, let me say I dont question our love for our children at all.Im trying to work out how what was done to us in our childhoods keeps us from being the best parents we can be. I know that my drug use, while at first seeming to make me a better mom, interfered with my ability to form honest emotional ties with my kids. Not entirely of course, but Im doing a much better job these days.
You said that connecting with your stepson was sometimes a chore, and that resonated with me. So often, while playing, for example, Candyland with my children, I would feel bored and that it was a chore and nothing more than that. I felt guilty about not enjoying myself and resentful that it didnt come joyfully to me the way I felt real mothers ought to feel.
My therapist points out that I had no experience of loving interactions with my own parents and wasnt taught to experience comfort and joy in a shared experience. I found when I took my d.o.c., it approximated that feeling of contentment and I could play Candyland for hours.
Whatever piece it is that Im missing affects all sorts of interactions. To this day, I prefer to do things by myself and Im a terrible teacher. I shy away from work in group settings, preferring just me and my computer. I understand you're self-employed -- do you work alone?
Thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you.
Cheers,
Gina
Youre very good at helping me think this through. First off, let me say I dont question our love for our children at all.Im trying to work out how what was done to us in our childhoods keeps us from being the best parents we can be. I know that my drug use, while at first seeming to make me a better mom, interfered with my ability to form honest emotional ties with my kids. Not entirely of course, but Im doing a much better job these days.
You said that connecting with your stepson was sometimes a chore, and that resonated with me. So often, while playing, for example, Candyland with my children, I would feel bored and that it was a chore and nothing more than that. I felt guilty about not enjoying myself and resentful that it didnt come joyfully to me the way I felt real mothers ought to feel.
My therapist points out that I had no experience of loving interactions with my own parents and wasnt taught to experience comfort and joy in a shared experience. I found when I took my d.o.c., it approximated that feeling of contentment and I could play Candyland for hours.
Whatever piece it is that Im missing affects all sorts of interactions. To this day, I prefer to do things by myself and Im a terrible teacher. I shy away from work in group settings, preferring just me and my computer. I understand you're self-employed -- do you work alone?
Thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you.
Cheers,
Gina
Gina,
You sound very much like me. At first my drug use gave me the illusion of being a better father. I would play for hours at a clip with my son, never being bored with it. But as my drug use progressed I found myself being short tempered and forgetful, not such the great father I perceived myself to be, I also had so many projects in the air my free time to play was becoming less and less (When using, I tackled every job I could get my hands on).
Yes, I am self employed, but I have two employees, but your right, I would rather work alone. Normally, I work by myself on a different phase of the job than my guys, and justify it as something that only I can do (but I, and they, know that they can do that as well). When I first went into business I worked by myself for two years, and I enjoyed it.
Best Regards,
Tom
You sound very much like me. At first my drug use gave me the illusion of being a better father. I would play for hours at a clip with my son, never being bored with it. But as my drug use progressed I found myself being short tempered and forgetful, not such the great father I perceived myself to be, I also had so many projects in the air my free time to play was becoming less and less (When using, I tackled every job I could get my hands on).
Yes, I am self employed, but I have two employees, but your right, I would rather work alone. Normally, I work by myself on a different phase of the job than my guys, and justify it as something that only I can do (but I, and they, know that they can do that as well). When I first went into business I worked by myself for two years, and I enjoyed it.
Best Regards,
Tom
Tom,
I wonder, as were alike in preferring to work alone, whether it is also not in your nature to ask for help. Because historically, to do so would leave us open to emotional assault from one or both parents. They cant attack us if were Perfect.
A woman at AA last night said that when she quit drinking two years ago she worked hard for a long time to have the Perfect Recovery, the Best Attitude, the most thorough grasp of the Big Book. She was always fine. But she wasnt really fine until she admitted that she was simply human.
I think about this now because I killed myself trying to be the perfect mother (I wasnt by a long shot) and how bad this was for my children. My own parents always claimed to be perfect, and I believed them. Its an impossible standard to grow up with, for me and, in turn, for my boys. Another long-term effect of childhood problems a perfect child is never unhappy, needy, noisy, or naughty. A perfect child never needs help.
If life is lived on the thin line of Perfection, one is always feeling superior or inferior and never just one of the pack, or simply human.
Oh, I just remembered seeing a photo you posted a while back of your son and someone you said is now in Iraq. Is that your older boy? If so, Im very sorry that you have to carry that additional burden of worry at this time.
Best wishes,
Gina
I wonder, as were alike in preferring to work alone, whether it is also not in your nature to ask for help. Because historically, to do so would leave us open to emotional assault from one or both parents. They cant attack us if were Perfect.
A woman at AA last night said that when she quit drinking two years ago she worked hard for a long time to have the Perfect Recovery, the Best Attitude, the most thorough grasp of the Big Book. She was always fine. But she wasnt really fine until she admitted that she was simply human.
I think about this now because I killed myself trying to be the perfect mother (I wasnt by a long shot) and how bad this was for my children. My own parents always claimed to be perfect, and I believed them. Its an impossible standard to grow up with, for me and, in turn, for my boys. Another long-term effect of childhood problems a perfect child is never unhappy, needy, noisy, or naughty. A perfect child never needs help.
If life is lived on the thin line of Perfection, one is always feeling superior or inferior and never just one of the pack, or simply human.
Oh, I just remembered seeing a photo you posted a while back of your son and someone you said is now in Iraq. Is that your older boy? If so, Im very sorry that you have to carry that additional burden of worry at this time.
Best wishes,
Gina
I have learned that feelings are a direct result of what I am thinking about. If I am thinking postiive things, my feelings willl be positive and vise versa.
Also, feeling is difficult sometime when we are used to "not feeling" because of years of painful things that we didn't want to feel which I 'm sure you know.
If we don't feel the pain, we can't feel the joy either... we just don't feel and sometimes that is the best we can do where in are in our lives, relationshiips and journeys. Always hoping to change that as we heal and grow, and change of course. Feelings can be very scary if we have been used to stuffing them or medicating them.
A good therapist can help us to sort out these feelings and coming here helps to have others support us and give us their thoughts on it too.
For what it's worth, I learned to not feel in childhood because of alcoholism.
JAG
I like the Mother Teresa Quote. I love her writings.
Also, feeling is difficult sometime when we are used to "not feeling" because of years of painful things that we didn't want to feel which I 'm sure you know.
If we don't feel the pain, we can't feel the joy either... we just don't feel and sometimes that is the best we can do where in are in our lives, relationshiips and journeys. Always hoping to change that as we heal and grow, and change of course. Feelings can be very scary if we have been used to stuffing them or medicating them.
A good therapist can help us to sort out these feelings and coming here helps to have others support us and give us their thoughts on it too.
For what it's worth, I learned to not feel in childhood because of alcoholism.
JAG
I like the Mother Teresa Quote. I love her writings.
Gina,
Yes, thats it. To ask for help would mean I didnt have all the answers (thats one reason). the other I think, is what you said, I would be spared of ridicule if I knew all the answers.
Its funny (well, not really, more peculiar) that our parents can have such a lasting effect on how we turn out.. to this day I still sit VERY VERY still when watching TV or something like that, because of the verbal abuse I would receive if I would shake my leg, or twitch or scratch my head when I was young.
Yes, I have two boys... one is 5 the other is 21 and serving in the marine corp in Iraq... He will be home on June 4 for a two week leave, but he must return for another 8 months :( at witch time he will be discharged and will FINALLY go to school.. criminal justice.
Best Regards,
Tom
Yes, thats it. To ask for help would mean I didnt have all the answers (thats one reason). the other I think, is what you said, I would be spared of ridicule if I knew all the answers.
Its funny (well, not really, more peculiar) that our parents can have such a lasting effect on how we turn out.. to this day I still sit VERY VERY still when watching TV or something like that, because of the verbal abuse I would receive if I would shake my leg, or twitch or scratch my head when I was young.
Yes, I have two boys... one is 5 the other is 21 and serving in the marine corp in Iraq... He will be home on June 4 for a two week leave, but he must return for another 8 months :( at witch time he will be discharged and will FINALLY go to school.. criminal justice.
Best Regards,
Tom
