Hi Everyone,
I'm sure you are all sick of me and my sub. questions. But everything I read says don't stay on for longer than a month or you will have trouble with w/d's. I have my appointment on Tuesday with my sub Dr. and I want a tapper plan to get the heck off these. It just feels like I swapped one set of opiates for another.
I am not putting sub down and believe if it works for anyone and they choose to stay on it long term good for them. But for me I just want off.
Please pray for me.
thanks,
Beebah
P.S.
Danny your an insperation getting off opiates and benzo's. Were you also on Sub? And if so how was that w/d?
good morning I rarely ever post on anything to do with sub becuz I am not qualified to do so. I have read your posts and wd's are formost on your mind. The only way you are going to get thru any of this is thru it period. if you are with your dr every step of the way you should not be in harms way., i went cold turkey off the pills and went thru wd's for a few days, the worst of it 3 days, gone in 5 days and it was over. thinking about the wd's were much worse than the actual wd. there is no easier softer way just do it. no one likes wd's but the reward at the end is being clean and free. you are thinking way too much about all of this, just stay in your 24 hour mode. focus on today only, what do you need to do today, not next week, but right now? if you feel sub is trading one for another dont take it and go cold turkey, you are drivng yourself crazy with all this. keep posting
Carol
Carol
I agree totally with what Topical has said. I suppose also though that withdrawals vary with how long one has been addicted and how many pills taken. For those truly unable to physically make it through withdrawals, it is wonderful that sub is there for that purpose. I dont undertsand sub totally either - such as why some are on it longer than others. I suppose those on it for a long time need that time to totally retrain their lives regarding addiction. For others it is the tool they need to see them through those undoable days of withdrawals. For me, withdrawals were a 5 day period of no energy, no sleep, being the worst symptoms. But then all of a sudden those symptoms were gone. I KNOW I will always have the tendency to overuse any pill in my possession. Fortunately, Im old enough, wise enough to know that I really have no need for painkillers and that seeking them is just seeking enslavement to them again. If you do go for the sub, I would discuss taking it for the shortest amount of time, just enough to see you through the other side of withdrawals and time to realize you are happier without all the hell they put you through.
Thanks for the posts. I mean I am physically over the Opiate w/d thanks to sub so there really isn't any reason I should be taking sub anymore. Well maybe just to stop the cravings but I think that can be done with good ole will power. I mean who would have thought I could have gone 20 days without a percocet!
Beebah.....from what I understand the reason you haven't expierenced w/d's from the pp is b/c you are on sub and that is what is keeping you from having those w/d symptoms. So, If you go off sub too quickly then you will have w/d's. Plus being on sub gives your brain time to heal so you will feel O.k. getting off everything. This is the reason for a taper off sub. I may be wrong or maybe I'm not writing this in a way that you can understand. I know what I'm trying to say, but I can't really write it like I'm thinking it.
Rhonda..you are correct. Taking suboxone is NOT a get out w/d free card. It should be used as a tool in conjunction with other things to educate yourself about addiction. In no way just because you have stopped taking boat loads of pills are your cured. No this is not a one size fits all statement either.
You will feel w/d symptoms if you stop sub c/t. Please talk to your doctor regarding all of this.
Good for you on your 20 days.
For me stopping was the easy part. Staying stopped is where I inevitably screwed up....why? Because I am an addict! Not until I started to analyze the reasons both physically and mentally for my drug use did I begin to heal. I have armed myself with knowledge about addiction and that is what slows me down long enough to re-think anything impulsive....like believing I can take pain meds like normal people.
Again...you will get all sorts of advice here...some from people who have taken sub and some who have not. I think you have to get real honest with your doctor and discuss these things with him/her.
Healing and recovery begins from the inside out. You are on your way...just keep trying!
You will feel w/d symptoms if you stop sub c/t. Please talk to your doctor regarding all of this.
Good for you on your 20 days.
For me stopping was the easy part. Staying stopped is where I inevitably screwed up....why? Because I am an addict! Not until I started to analyze the reasons both physically and mentally for my drug use did I begin to heal. I have armed myself with knowledge about addiction and that is what slows me down long enough to re-think anything impulsive....like believing I can take pain meds like normal people.
Again...you will get all sorts of advice here...some from people who have taken sub and some who have not. I think you have to get real honest with your doctor and discuss these things with him/her.
Healing and recovery begins from the inside out. You are on your way...just keep trying!
BEEBAH
what mg are you on? If youre having doubts, I would start tapering off now-- JMO
what mg are you on? If youre having doubts, I would start tapering off now-- JMO
I still don't get it. I was in patient (I know I sound like a broken record) used the Sub for the 5 days, came home and haven't touched a pp since. I went through a couple of days of cravings but that over. I talked with my Psychiatrist who is also an addiction specialist. I told him how some have been on sub at least a year and if I bring up my 5 days, let's just say 'm not popular. He says long term you're just trading one drug for another. He also said to ask the one who gives me a hard time if she has an MD and addiction specialist after her name.
It worked for me. I wish you 5 days much more than 1-2 years and lots of money.
Personally, I think some doctore are in it for the money.
I would wish for you to at least get a 2nd opinion.
Becky
It worked for me. I wish you 5 days much more than 1-2 years and lots of money.
Personally, I think some doctore are in it for the money.
I would wish for you to at least get a 2nd opinion.
Becky
There are 2 kinds of withdrawal:
Withdrawal from physical dependence , lasts 5 days to 2 weeks, these are the immediate acute withdrawal everyone recognizes. At first this is what everyone experiences when they stop using drugs. They stop go through some short term withdrawal and emerge fine.
Withdrawal from addiction is totally different. It forms in a different part of the brain and is characterized as long term, low-level lingering withdrawal symptoms also called PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome)
If someone is only physically dependent they can stop have withdrawal for a few days to a couple weeks and be done with it, however if they have crossed over into addiction they will still have the short-term withdrawal but when thats over they will still have the lingering withdrawal that can last for months. This is when many people relapse and why rapid detox, or any short treatment plan doesnt work.
Many people dont realize when they have crossed over into addiction and only remember when they could stop have withdrawal and be fine, now they are not fine and many blame it on the sub, meth or whatever their last treatment was. The fact is if you truly addicted a short term treatment is likely to end in relapse.
One way to find out is to stop all opioids and see how you feel in a month, but have a back-up plan incase you are truly addicted.
Another way is to try a slow sub taper for a month, that will make the withdrawal much easier, because it will spread out the acute withdrawal.
If you find you are addicted the best treatment is long term sub with a slow taper. This allows your brain time to heal preventing the lingering withdrawal symptoms from happening once you taper off completely.
For more reading:
Why short term treatments for opioid addiction dont work
Tolerance, Physical Dependence, Addiction
Jake
Withdrawal from physical dependence , lasts 5 days to 2 weeks, these are the immediate acute withdrawal everyone recognizes. At first this is what everyone experiences when they stop using drugs. They stop go through some short term withdrawal and emerge fine.
Withdrawal from addiction is totally different. It forms in a different part of the brain and is characterized as long term, low-level lingering withdrawal symptoms also called PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome)
If someone is only physically dependent they can stop have withdrawal for a few days to a couple weeks and be done with it, however if they have crossed over into addiction they will still have the short-term withdrawal but when thats over they will still have the lingering withdrawal that can last for months. This is when many people relapse and why rapid detox, or any short treatment plan doesnt work.
Many people dont realize when they have crossed over into addiction and only remember when they could stop have withdrawal and be fine, now they are not fine and many blame it on the sub, meth or whatever their last treatment was. The fact is if you truly addicted a short term treatment is likely to end in relapse.
One way to find out is to stop all opioids and see how you feel in a month, but have a back-up plan incase you are truly addicted.
Another way is to try a slow sub taper for a month, that will make the withdrawal much easier, because it will spread out the acute withdrawal.
If you find you are addicted the best treatment is long term sub with a slow taper. This allows your brain time to heal preventing the lingering withdrawal symptoms from happening once you taper off completely.
For more reading:
Why short term treatments for opioid addiction dont work
Tolerance, Physical Dependence, Addiction
Jake
Jake
Thank you for that awesome explanation about physical addiction and dependency differences.
I've been on sub for 1 yr. I'm at a pretty low dose, and am planning on weaning down to dust.
I've been ready.
Stacey
Thank you for that awesome explanation about physical addiction and dependency differences.
I've been on sub for 1 yr. I'm at a pretty low dose, and am planning on weaning down to dust.
I've been ready.
Stacey
Hi Stacey,
I did a slow 8 month taper from 16mgs and spent the last 2 months below 2mgs. It was not hard for me when I started to feel like I was going too fast I slowed down and let my body catch up. I was on sub for a total of 3 years and when I finally stopped i had what could be called very slight withdrawal and only for a few days or so. That was over 2 years ago. I think you will do fine as long as you have made significant changes in your life and are prepared for life without medication. best of luck to you.
Jake
I did a slow 8 month taper from 16mgs and spent the last 2 months below 2mgs. It was not hard for me when I started to feel like I was going too fast I slowed down and let my body catch up. I was on sub for a total of 3 years and when I finally stopped i had what could be called very slight withdrawal and only for a few days or so. That was over 2 years ago. I think you will do fine as long as you have made significant changes in your life and are prepared for life without medication. best of luck to you.
Jake
Hey Jake,
I'm on 2mg now, so is my husband. Him and I both were taking 90-120mg a day of oxy for the first 2 years of our daughter's life.
It's a miracle we're still together and didn't lose everything we have, including my baby girl. My family was my rock.
Finally got some help with a psych and found a sub dr. we both came in in full withdrawls for the billionth time... 3 day in, about to jump out of my skin and die... sub dr.s can only have 30 patients. him and i were 29 and 30. Tell me that wasn't meant to be!!
started off at 10mg a day and a year later here I am at 2. It hasn't been very hard until trying to drop from that. But like you said, listening to your body will help. If I have learned anything about sub it is it really is beneficial withdrawl wise, if you taper very slowly.
Congratulations to you. Gives me a little boost that what i want to do is possible.
thank you.
Stacey
I'm on 2mg now, so is my husband. Him and I both were taking 90-120mg a day of oxy for the first 2 years of our daughter's life.
It's a miracle we're still together and didn't lose everything we have, including my baby girl. My family was my rock.
Finally got some help with a psych and found a sub dr. we both came in in full withdrawls for the billionth time... 3 day in, about to jump out of my skin and die... sub dr.s can only have 30 patients. him and i were 29 and 30. Tell me that wasn't meant to be!!
started off at 10mg a day and a year later here I am at 2. It hasn't been very hard until trying to drop from that. But like you said, listening to your body will help. If I have learned anything about sub it is it really is beneficial withdrawl wise, if you taper very slowly.
Congratulations to you. Gives me a little boost that what i want to do is possible.
thank you.
Stacey
Hey Stacey,
Wow! I didn't know that you AND your husband were in the same boat. It's difficult enough with one addict in the family, not to mention two. I have a feeling that, if you've made it this far, this will only prove to make you're relationship stronger. I've read many of your posts and I just know that you've got your priorities straight and that you'll succeed. You mentioned in your earlier post that you're now on 2mgs. of Sub and that you've found it pretty easy up to this point. Have you tried going below 2mgs. yet? I'm just asking because I've just gone to 4mgs. the past couple of days and so far so good. I haven't been on Sub as long as you so I'm sure that's going to make a difference in how we respond to the taper but I wondered if you had tried going below 2mgs. and it didn't work for you yet or if you were hesitant to try it.
Hope you're having a good weekend,
~Callie~
Wow! I didn't know that you AND your husband were in the same boat. It's difficult enough with one addict in the family, not to mention two. I have a feeling that, if you've made it this far, this will only prove to make you're relationship stronger. I've read many of your posts and I just know that you've got your priorities straight and that you'll succeed. You mentioned in your earlier post that you're now on 2mgs. of Sub and that you've found it pretty easy up to this point. Have you tried going below 2mgs. yet? I'm just asking because I've just gone to 4mgs. the past couple of days and so far so good. I haven't been on Sub as long as you so I'm sure that's going to make a difference in how we respond to the taper but I wondered if you had tried going below 2mgs. and it didn't work for you yet or if you were hesitant to try it.
Hope you're having a good weekend,
~Callie~
Hey Callie,
Yes my husband and I were in the same boat. you could only imagine the fights. Both of us going through withdrawl, both of us buy loads of pills cause we both were taking them. He'd get 90 hydro and i'd get 90percs and that was our life. when we ran out we bought them from 'friends'.
We've only been married 3.5 years and we've been through a ton.
I haven't tried to go below 2, but i have started to wait as long as possible during the day before taking something.
One day I got to about 6 o'clock in the evening before taking something.
I was at 4mg for EVER. You can type in my screename and go to the beginning of some of my posts...just about a year of my posts were extremely chaotic and just plain awful.
Please keep me up to date with yourself. ok?
Love ya,
Stacey
Yes my husband and I were in the same boat. you could only imagine the fights. Both of us going through withdrawl, both of us buy loads of pills cause we both were taking them. He'd get 90 hydro and i'd get 90percs and that was our life. when we ran out we bought them from 'friends'.
We've only been married 3.5 years and we've been through a ton.
I haven't tried to go below 2, but i have started to wait as long as possible during the day before taking something.
One day I got to about 6 o'clock in the evening before taking something.
I was at 4mg for EVER. You can type in my screename and go to the beginning of some of my posts...just about a year of my posts were extremely chaotic and just plain awful.
Please keep me up to date with yourself. ok?
Love ya,
Stacey
I'm sorry we all have this disease but I'm happy for you that someone really u'stands. It s'thing you can do together for sure.
My husband dabbled with pp - but he was always able to stop, look pretty rough for a few days and then be out mowing the lawn. He really belives it's willpower. I would go through 4 weeks of the sick w/d and have to go and have fluids. It seemed to never stop until I started back taking the pills.
He seems to u'stand b/c he sees how really sick I get so he's been good about it.
I guess I was just one of the lucky ones that the 5 day sub worked for me. I've had cravings a couple of times since April when I quit but not enough to go back.
Good luck to your and your husband. It sounds like you are getting it done.
Love, Becky
My husband dabbled with pp - but he was always able to stop, look pretty rough for a few days and then be out mowing the lawn. He really belives it's willpower. I would go through 4 weeks of the sick w/d and have to go and have fluids. It seemed to never stop until I started back taking the pills.
He seems to u'stand b/c he sees how really sick I get so he's been good about it.
I guess I was just one of the lucky ones that the 5 day sub worked for me. I've had cravings a couple of times since April when I quit but not enough to go back.
Good luck to your and your husband. It sounds like you are getting it done.
Love, Becky
Hi Becky, Fortunately you were probably "physically dependent" on opioids but hadn't crossed over into "addiction" yet , at least not so much that it altered the brain. Not only did you choose the right course of treatment for you, but you should be completely out of the woods and back to normal soon , if you are not already. Congratulations!!!
Stacey and Callie, 2mgs and below is by far the hardest part of the taper and to be comfortable you'll need to slow down the taper and listen to your body. This PET scan shows why. It shows how many receptors are empty in the brain at different doses of sub, and at 2mgs still about 1/2 of the available receptors are full. So 2-0mgs is a much bigger drop (receptor wise) than even 20-4mgs.
http://www.naabt.org/images/petscan.jpg
As long as you pace this last part of the taper with your brain's ability to heal you will experience the least withdrawal possible, and best of all no long term lingering withdrawal later on. I know you both will be another success story!!
Jake
Stacey and Callie, 2mgs and below is by far the hardest part of the taper and to be comfortable you'll need to slow down the taper and listen to your body. This PET scan shows why. It shows how many receptors are empty in the brain at different doses of sub, and at 2mgs still about 1/2 of the available receptors are full. So 2-0mgs is a much bigger drop (receptor wise) than even 20-4mgs.
http://www.naabt.org/images/petscan.jpg
As long as you pace this last part of the taper with your brain's ability to heal you will experience the least withdrawal possible, and best of all no long term lingering withdrawal later on. I know you both will be another success story!!
Jake
Hey Jake,
Thanks for that info. Nice to see you posting again.
Stacey, I'm really glad that your doctor isn't rushing you and you're able to taper slowly. My doctor isn't in any hurry. It's me who wants to speed things up. Mainly because the treatment is expensive and because I want so badly to be done with pills. I am still tied to the pharmacy as my doctor insists on releasing only one daily dose at a time. I've had some craving (if you could call it that) at 4mgs. You know...that feeling of "I want something but I don't know what", but it's still early. I think as my body adjusts, I'll get around those kinds of things. I think too...the biggest reason I want to be done with the pills is to see what my body and brain are really like without any drugs. It's insane not to know what that's like. Anyway, I think I'll just hang out here at 4mgs. for a bit and see what happens in the next month. I've already done a good amount of tapering within this first month and if Jake's right, I don't want to push myself into a relapse. Hope you're enjoying what's left of the weekend!
I'm thinking of you....
~Callie~
Thanks for that info. Nice to see you posting again.
Stacey, I'm really glad that your doctor isn't rushing you and you're able to taper slowly. My doctor isn't in any hurry. It's me who wants to speed things up. Mainly because the treatment is expensive and because I want so badly to be done with pills. I am still tied to the pharmacy as my doctor insists on releasing only one daily dose at a time. I've had some craving (if you could call it that) at 4mgs. You know...that feeling of "I want something but I don't know what", but it's still early. I think as my body adjusts, I'll get around those kinds of things. I think too...the biggest reason I want to be done with the pills is to see what my body and brain are really like without any drugs. It's insane not to know what that's like. Anyway, I think I'll just hang out here at 4mgs. for a bit and see what happens in the next month. I've already done a good amount of tapering within this first month and if Jake's right, I don't want to push myself into a relapse. Hope you're enjoying what's left of the weekend!
I'm thinking of you....
~Callie~
Becky Jean,
I'm so glad you were able to get by with such a short treatment. I know it's difficult for you to understand but, we are all so different. We all have different histories (amounts and length of time using) that I'm sure it plays a big part in why some treatments must be longer than others. I'm just glad that one of us has had such a seemless transition. One thing I must caution you about is...now that you've introduced mind altering drugs to your body and you have shown addictive tendancies, you must beware of it in the future. That's the mistake I made. My DOC was alcohol some years ago. From experience, I knew I shouldn't take a narcotic for any reason but I didn't listen to the advice. I took one pain pill, one day and I was, from that day on, addicted. Sooo...Just be careful, OK?
See Ya!
~Callie~
I'm so glad you were able to get by with such a short treatment. I know it's difficult for you to understand but, we are all so different. We all have different histories (amounts and length of time using) that I'm sure it plays a big part in why some treatments must be longer than others. I'm just glad that one of us has had such a seemless transition. One thing I must caution you about is...now that you've introduced mind altering drugs to your body and you have shown addictive tendancies, you must beware of it in the future. That's the mistake I made. My DOC was alcohol some years ago. From experience, I knew I shouldn't take a narcotic for any reason but I didn't listen to the advice. I took one pain pill, one day and I was, from that day on, addicted. Sooo...Just be careful, OK?
See Ya!
~Callie~
Thanks Jake:
You hve explained this to me better than anyone yet. I just don't want doctors taking advantage of people for the money. I would have paid 'til I was broke to get off the pp's. I was a 12 yr addict on and off - mostly on. I look back at all the lost years.
I hate to say this time in April was easy b/c so many of you are struggling and that makes me feel terrible. I did stop C/T at least 50 times and suffered like crazy.
I guess all of our brains are so different - we have to find a way. I keep saying this is an epidemic.
Thanks Callie, too.
You are always so sweet.
If I could, I would take addiction away for e'one. I do pray hard for e'one on this board, myself included and my sons. Our children are more likely to become addicts b/c we are or have been. I would go through it again before I wanted my sons addicted. I'm sure we all would.
There's a saying - it's kinda like saying life is not easy, it goes:
"People say they would die for their children
but are they strong enough to stay and live for them."
I typed that and had it sitting in a little frame - this was after my suicide attemt and my youngest son saw it - He asked if he could have it and I gave it to him. I have to prove myself to my children maybe for years - it may take that long.
Love, Becky Jean
You hve explained this to me better than anyone yet. I just don't want doctors taking advantage of people for the money. I would have paid 'til I was broke to get off the pp's. I was a 12 yr addict on and off - mostly on. I look back at all the lost years.
I hate to say this time in April was easy b/c so many of you are struggling and that makes me feel terrible. I did stop C/T at least 50 times and suffered like crazy.
I guess all of our brains are so different - we have to find a way. I keep saying this is an epidemic.
Thanks Callie, too.
You are always so sweet.
If I could, I would take addiction away for e'one. I do pray hard for e'one on this board, myself included and my sons. Our children are more likely to become addicts b/c we are or have been. I would go through it again before I wanted my sons addicted. I'm sure we all would.
There's a saying - it's kinda like saying life is not easy, it goes:
"People say they would die for their children
but are they strong enough to stay and live for them."
I typed that and had it sitting in a little frame - this was after my suicide attemt and my youngest son saw it - He asked if he could have it and I gave it to him. I have to prove myself to my children maybe for years - it may take that long.
Love, Becky Jean
By "sub", are you referring to "subutex"?? I just started on them 3 days ago... would love some feedback on what I'm in for....