I'm new to this site, not very computer literate, and not really sure what to do!!??? I've been adicted to opiates, off and on for about 20 years. 2 years ago I broke my leg, and then all hell broke loose. I was hospitalized for 5 months, I've had 12 operations, needless to say, now I'm really addicted. I can't seem to muster up the motivation to even care. Painkillers kill the pain but they can also kill the joy. I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I can see how bad it is, but I feel detached, like it's happening to someone else. I want to put on the brakes before something really bad happens, but I'm so numb. I used to have opiates binges and in between do without and work, and live life, ect. Since my accident I've been taking them almost every day. I can wean myself off, but by day 3 I'm jonseing so bad that I get more. Any help? Advice?
Iola
Hi honey, im Ali.....youve come to a good place, where we all know the horrors of being addicted to something and are all at different stages of recovering...
Have you heard about sub???
Theres a section especially dedicated to it here, so maybe you can read up on it there...it seems to really be a life saver ad can be used for a short term or long term taper program..
Please check back here and let us know how you are..
I have no experience with sub myself but there are people here that know about it so hang on and check back....
take a deep breath, your going to be okay...i promise..
Hugs
Ali
Hi honey, im Ali.....youve come to a good place, where we all know the horrors of being addicted to something and are all at different stages of recovering...
Have you heard about sub???
Theres a section especially dedicated to it here, so maybe you can read up on it there...it seems to really be a life saver ad can be used for a short term or long term taper program..
Please check back here and let us know how you are..
I have no experience with sub myself but there are people here that know about it so hang on and check back....
take a deep breath, your going to be okay...i promise..
Hugs
Ali
Hey Ali!
Thank you for responding. This is a fantastic site, makes me realize I'm not totally alone. I've heard of sub and I will read up on it, I've also heard it's hell to get off of. Is there anything to kill the cravings? Sometimes I literally dream of pills, how sick is that?
Thank you for responding. This is a fantastic site, makes me realize I'm not totally alone. I've heard of sub and I will read up on it, I've also heard it's hell to get off of. Is there anything to kill the cravings? Sometimes I literally dream of pills, how sick is that?
Iola
Not sick at all..pretty common..and from what i understand...the sub totally kills that craving...
Ive heard of some using sub for as short as a 3 day taper, and as long as several year taper...
Personally i think that it should be used for as short a time as possible...i think the idea is that while your on it...you get off the cycle of using multiple times a day, you get a chance to remember what its like to feel normal and not have the up and down all the time, the constant search for pills etc..and then they wean you off of it...
It is of course a narcotic too..and a really strong one at that, but it does something the others dont do as far as killing cravings....
A Dr has to have taken a course before he or she can RX them to you, but theres a list somewhere ( you can probably find it on the sub section threads) of Dr's that would be in your area....
Just try to say calm love, and remember that many people have been exactly where you are now, felt exactly as alone and lost, and scared and worried, and have come through it, much wiser for the experience...
Its late now so not sure how many are still up but make sure you check back tomorrow to get more feedback...im a night owl myself...lol
Your going to be fine..coming here wasn't by accident..
Hugs
Ali
Not sick at all..pretty common..and from what i understand...the sub totally kills that craving...
Ive heard of some using sub for as short as a 3 day taper, and as long as several year taper...
Personally i think that it should be used for as short a time as possible...i think the idea is that while your on it...you get off the cycle of using multiple times a day, you get a chance to remember what its like to feel normal and not have the up and down all the time, the constant search for pills etc..and then they wean you off of it...
It is of course a narcotic too..and a really strong one at that, but it does something the others dont do as far as killing cravings....
A Dr has to have taken a course before he or she can RX them to you, but theres a list somewhere ( you can probably find it on the sub section threads) of Dr's that would be in your area....
Just try to say calm love, and remember that many people have been exactly where you are now, felt exactly as alone and lost, and scared and worried, and have come through it, much wiser for the experience...
Its late now so not sure how many are still up but make sure you check back tomorrow to get more feedback...im a night owl myself...lol
Your going to be fine..coming here wasn't by accident..
Hugs
Ali
Hey Ali"
No surprise that I have difficulty sleeping. The craving part is the worst part for me, I can go thru the physical...it's the mental part that gets me every time. I just can't seem to care about anything. I do like what you said about my finding this site. I don't really use the computer often but this forum is fantastic!
I appreciate your response.
No surprise that I have difficulty sleeping. The craving part is the worst part for me, I can go thru the physical...it's the mental part that gets me every time. I just can't seem to care about anything. I do like what you said about my finding this site. I don't really use the computer often but this forum is fantastic!
I appreciate your response.
QUOTE |
Painkillers kill the pain but they can also kill the joy. I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I can see how bad it is, but I feel detached, like it's happening to someone else. |
Lola,
Welcome to the board.
What you wrote above -- I remember feeling exactly that way. My psychiatrist calls it depersonalization. I call it losing my soul. Like you, I went through longish dry spells between prescriptions. Please believe me when I say that life in recovery is not the same as life lived the grey fog of mere abstinence. You can find the joy again. But it won't be easy and it will take time.
You can't do this alone. We all need face to face support. Do you have a therapist? Are you willing to go to 12 step meetings? Is there a minister, if you attend church, that you trust? I'm afraid that to get clean and stay clean, you're going to have to cut off your sources. In my case, that meant telling my doctor and pharmacist about my disease and requesting that my case file get a big "Prescribe No Opiates" stamp across it. I know that won't be easy, but it's essential that you do so.
Keep posting. The more you are willing to reveal about your situation, the more useful will be the advice people can offer.
And remember to breathe. It helps with the anxiety.
Cheers,
Gina
Of jump i want to say, if i offend or piss any anyone off I am sorry. Here goes I never understood the sub or methadone. You are just replacing and then you have to detox off of them. Call me crazy but you need a in stay rehab and don't give me that I don't have time to go. Bull we have given so much to our addiction we can give back to ourselves by getting help.Please just look into other forms of help
Felicia
83 days free
one day at a time
o
Felicia
83 days free
one day at a time
o
Hey Gina:
Thanks for responding, I've been up all night (again). I didn't even realize that what you had in the "Quote" was what I had written. Yeah, depersonalzation it's odd. It's like not being real. I've run from pain my whole life in one way or another so it doesn't surprise me that painkillers are what got me. Almost from day one. I always thought if I ever tried herion, that would be it for me. No, I don't really have a support system, there are my friends who use, and then my friends who don't, and don't know. I've been to 12 steps before, I havent gone in a long time though. I keep hearing about this drug suboxone? Now, to me, using drugs to get off of drugs makes perfect sense. And therein lies my problem. I really liked what you said about life in recovery being totally different from the grey fog of existing (sorry, it was abstaining). I know what dry drunk means, and I've read a lot, and went to meetings in the past. None of that insight or knowledge saved me. I know I have to bite the bullet, but I do have some pain since I broke my leg 2 years ago, have had 12 operations and am still in a cast and found out tuesday that there were 2 broken screws. How do I know whats really pain, and what is just wanting more, and my tolerence level is now so high. I really don't know what to do but I'm really glad I found this fourum and thank you so much for all you said.
Thanks for responding, I've been up all night (again). I didn't even realize that what you had in the "Quote" was what I had written. Yeah, depersonalzation it's odd. It's like not being real. I've run from pain my whole life in one way or another so it doesn't surprise me that painkillers are what got me. Almost from day one. I always thought if I ever tried herion, that would be it for me. No, I don't really have a support system, there are my friends who use, and then my friends who don't, and don't know. I've been to 12 steps before, I havent gone in a long time though. I keep hearing about this drug suboxone? Now, to me, using drugs to get off of drugs makes perfect sense. And therein lies my problem. I really liked what you said about life in recovery being totally different from the grey fog of existing (sorry, it was abstaining). I know what dry drunk means, and I've read a lot, and went to meetings in the past. None of that insight or knowledge saved me. I know I have to bite the bullet, but I do have some pain since I broke my leg 2 years ago, have had 12 operations and am still in a cast and found out tuesday that there were 2 broken screws. How do I know whats really pain, and what is just wanting more, and my tolerence level is now so high. I really don't know what to do but I'm really glad I found this fourum and thank you so much for all you said.
I had a different experience with depersonalization, but then again, it was a benzo withdrawl induced.
Lola
I use to be a binger too.It kept me locked into addiction longer because I could get clean for periods of time.I justified that as being "I really wasn't an addict".
It will keep getting worse.
There is no way I can know if you've hit your bottom.Some people can take the elevator to the basement before they get off.Only you can decide where your pain threshold is with the misery.
The pain of using became worse than the pain of getting clean for me.
I finally was able to suck up my pride and walk in to an NA meeting and start listening with a different set of ears.I got a sponsor and started working the twelve steps.That's when change occured.
Sub is not a cure.You will have to get off that some day.
The problem is our way of thinking.There has to come about a psychic and spiritual change before we no longer have a desire to self medicate.
Welcome to the board
QUOTE |
I used to have opiates binges and in between do without and work, and live life, |
I use to be a binger too.It kept me locked into addiction longer because I could get clean for periods of time.I justified that as being "I really wasn't an addict".
It will keep getting worse.
There is no way I can know if you've hit your bottom.Some people can take the elevator to the basement before they get off.Only you can decide where your pain threshold is with the misery.
The pain of using became worse than the pain of getting clean for me.
I finally was able to suck up my pride and walk in to an NA meeting and start listening with a different set of ears.I got a sponsor and started working the twelve steps.That's when change occured.
Sub is not a cure.You will have to get off that some day.
The problem is our way of thinking.There has to come about a psychic and spiritual change before we no longer have a desire to self medicate.
Welcome to the board
Lola,
We're addicts. We run from pain of any kind, looking for the quick fix. It takes time to learn other tricks and tools for getting through life's little messes sober. What I've found useful is therapy, meditation, yoga and the monthly spa day, LOL.
But I don't have legitimate pain. I used to get percocet prescriptions for migraines, but whenever I had a migraine, I took advil -- why spoil a perfectly good high? There will be others on later who deal with addiction and issues of legitimate pain. I admire those who do. I wouldn't care to walk that tightrope.
I'm sorry you were up all night. Insomnia seems to be par for the course.
Hang in there.
Gina
We're addicts. We run from pain of any kind, looking for the quick fix. It takes time to learn other tricks and tools for getting through life's little messes sober. What I've found useful is therapy, meditation, yoga and the monthly spa day, LOL.
But I don't have legitimate pain. I used to get percocet prescriptions for migraines, but whenever I had a migraine, I took advil -- why spoil a perfectly good high? There will be others on later who deal with addiction and issues of legitimate pain. I admire those who do. I wouldn't care to walk that tightrope.
I'm sorry you were up all night. Insomnia seems to be par for the course.
Hang in there.
Gina
Lola,welcome. I'm new too.
I was thinking that the chronic pain and addiction is really a tough boat to be in. Either one alone is tough enough... As you will learn here (I have learned so much here already and I think I have been on for like 3 days - and "out" for about 2 weeks) and as I know you know - there are so many different paths to recovery and right now that might seem like the only thing that is or should be on your mind.
I really believe, though, that the pain piece of things and figuring out how to get that under control is just as important. There are doctors and other clinicians out there whose focus is specifically chronic pain, and even MDs who specialize in working with addicts who also have chronic pain. Do you have insurance? Have you ever been referred to a pain specialist or clinic? Those would be my suggestions for starting your work on pain management without opiates. Also, some addiction specialists also work with pain management and you might need something like methadone or suboxone for long term stabilization of the addiction and of the pain, in addition to the millions of other options that are out there for good long term pain control.
You will just need to be completely honest about how much you use and for how long and all of that stuff, but there are people (professional people) who can help. I mean, I know it's different, but like addiction, constant physical pain drains you of life too. All of your body's energy (physical energy is what I'm primarily talking about) is going toward reacting and responding to the pain, and that effects your emotional, spiritual and physical well being too.
This just made me think. If you ever want to talk about non-opioid pain management, maybe it's something we can research together. Just don't let it take a back seat or deny that it's a reality because addiction is a reality.... They exist together for you and for a lot of people, and it's going to be an important part of your WHOLE recovery to deal with this too.
I apologize if that sounded preachy or condescending... you just made me think and I want to listen.
Keep on posting. It's all I have been doing for the past 3 days (that and video games:) )
All the Best,
SP
I was thinking that the chronic pain and addiction is really a tough boat to be in. Either one alone is tough enough... As you will learn here (I have learned so much here already and I think I have been on for like 3 days - and "out" for about 2 weeks) and as I know you know - there are so many different paths to recovery and right now that might seem like the only thing that is or should be on your mind.
I really believe, though, that the pain piece of things and figuring out how to get that under control is just as important. There are doctors and other clinicians out there whose focus is specifically chronic pain, and even MDs who specialize in working with addicts who also have chronic pain. Do you have insurance? Have you ever been referred to a pain specialist or clinic? Those would be my suggestions for starting your work on pain management without opiates. Also, some addiction specialists also work with pain management and you might need something like methadone or suboxone for long term stabilization of the addiction and of the pain, in addition to the millions of other options that are out there for good long term pain control.
You will just need to be completely honest about how much you use and for how long and all of that stuff, but there are people (professional people) who can help. I mean, I know it's different, but like addiction, constant physical pain drains you of life too. All of your body's energy (physical energy is what I'm primarily talking about) is going toward reacting and responding to the pain, and that effects your emotional, spiritual and physical well being too.
This just made me think. If you ever want to talk about non-opioid pain management, maybe it's something we can research together. Just don't let it take a back seat or deny that it's a reality because addiction is a reality.... They exist together for you and for a lot of people, and it's going to be an important part of your WHOLE recovery to deal with this too.
I apologize if that sounded preachy or condescending... you just made me think and I want to listen.
Keep on posting. It's all I have been doing for the past 3 days (that and video games:) )
All the Best,
SP
QUOTE |
Keep on posting. It's all I have been doing for the past 3 days (that and video games:) ) |
Hey SP,
Welcome to the board! LOL, I think spent the entire time I was in w/d's lying in the bathtub playing Zelda and Final Fantasy on my sons' Gameboy. Do whatever you need to to get through the day sober. Don't be stupid like I was -- don't do it alone.
Cheers,
Gina
Welcome Lola. You'll learn a lot in a little time, besides having the caring you need from people who have been there, done that.
Ali,
Can't say how happy I am that you're posting regularly again. Your advice is always wonderful.
Soul,
Now you've got it honey. Glad to see you chip in. ((((Hugs))))) to the newbies as well as the regulars.
Ali,
Can't say how happy I am that you're posting regularly again. Your advice is always wonderful.
Soul,
Now you've got it honey. Glad to see you chip in. ((((Hugs))))) to the newbies as well as the regulars.
To all who've responded':
I am so touched and encouraged by your words - that I almost don't know to say,(I said almost).
The whole chronic pain addiction thing is tricky. At least with alcohol you can put it down completely. I do see pain management now, and I like him, he's BY THE BOOK ,that is essential for me. I'm the type who has called a doc on the weekend - who wasn't my doc, conviencied him he was, and had them phone something in, Clearly, I need a doc who doesn't play. This guy doesn't play at all (at first I didn't know how to act). I actually went on my first visit and told what I needed and how much. He was not amused. When he said he'd give me 30mg of Lortab a day, I told him I wanted a second opinion (again, not amused). HE's THE DOCTOR HERE, NOT ME. Blah, blah, blah. Here's the thing - he IS the doctor there, not me. How well has it gone for me to dictate? Not well. It's automatic for me to start manipulating a doc. I was really good, and I really do not like that part of me at all. Here's my prob, 2 fold actually. First, the few 12 steppers I've talked to said the program won't work if I'm still using (what? It worked for Lindsay Lohan!) Someone else said, don't tell them. But I thought it was a program of rigorous honesty? Am I so bad 12 steppers won't take me? Are they saying - OK, we'll let the guy who gave himself a vodka enemea so the dentist could'nt smell it on his breath (true story) He's in...not you.
2nd I'm sure it goes without saying that I blow thru my pain meds early and then I'm screwed, (pain doc won't see me even 1 day early)! Now what, ER's? THEY ALL KNOW ME! They're like "oh hey Lola, here drug seeking"? "Well yes indeedy, may I have a refill please?" I mean not literally' but close enough. Aren't I embarressed? Yes. Do I not have any self respect left? No.
For some reason that last line hit me really hard. I was always an etihical person, with standards and morals. Someone, I think it was soccormom, said it best, "it takes your soul". I'm a shell....
I am so touched and encouraged by your words - that I almost don't know to say,(I said almost).
The whole chronic pain addiction thing is tricky. At least with alcohol you can put it down completely. I do see pain management now, and I like him, he's BY THE BOOK ,that is essential for me. I'm the type who has called a doc on the weekend - who wasn't my doc, conviencied him he was, and had them phone something in, Clearly, I need a doc who doesn't play. This guy doesn't play at all (at first I didn't know how to act). I actually went on my first visit and told what I needed and how much. He was not amused. When he said he'd give me 30mg of Lortab a day, I told him I wanted a second opinion (again, not amused). HE's THE DOCTOR HERE, NOT ME. Blah, blah, blah. Here's the thing - he IS the doctor there, not me. How well has it gone for me to dictate? Not well. It's automatic for me to start manipulating a doc. I was really good, and I really do not like that part of me at all. Here's my prob, 2 fold actually. First, the few 12 steppers I've talked to said the program won't work if I'm still using (what? It worked for Lindsay Lohan!) Someone else said, don't tell them. But I thought it was a program of rigorous honesty? Am I so bad 12 steppers won't take me? Are they saying - OK, we'll let the guy who gave himself a vodka enemea so the dentist could'nt smell it on his breath (true story) He's in...not you.
2nd I'm sure it goes without saying that I blow thru my pain meds early and then I'm screwed, (pain doc won't see me even 1 day early)! Now what, ER's? THEY ALL KNOW ME! They're like "oh hey Lola, here drug seeking"? "Well yes indeedy, may I have a refill please?" I mean not literally' but close enough. Aren't I embarressed? Yes. Do I not have any self respect left? No.
For some reason that last line hit me really hard. I was always an etihical person, with standards and morals. Someone, I think it was soccormom, said it best, "it takes your soul". I'm a shell....
QUOTE |
First, the few 12 steppers I've talked to said the program won't work if I'm still using (what? It worked for Lindsay Lohan!) |
LOL........I don't know how well it's worked for Miss Lohan?
Anyway,I would have to agree with that statement.A 12 step program is designed to help you live clean.If you're still using I don't see how you could get to the level of honesty it would require to work the steps.
It does not mean you can't go to meetings.
I'm a little confused about if your goal is to get completely clean or be maintained on pain meds?
I understand the necessity of being on pain meds for chronic pain but if you are abusing them,I think that's the real twist.
Maybe you can explain that further.
I'll try to explain it further, If I can. Yes, I need to take it for chronic pain, and yes, I abuse it. They have tried other thing, they tried to do a block while I was hospitalized, but it barely lasted thru the surgery. I do take non-narcotic for the nerve pain, and paxil to help with the whole mess. If you can believe, after the first 8 operations, pain management sent me home with Lortab, Oxy & Diliuad, and I was afraid of the oxy & diliaud and took them _ALMOST exactly as prescribed. For me, that was actually good, for me. I'm the girl who got mono when I was 16, was in so much pain, they gave me tylenol #3, first time I ever took anything. The bottle said 1-2 every four hours. I took 4. From day one.