Higher Power?

I'm working on step four. But I have unresolved issues with two and three. I maintain an open mind, but my addict keeps wanting to explain everything through psychological terms and chance.
I'm a spiritual person, I believe. Heck, I was an altar boy. And I pray to God. I'm just not 100% sure He's listening. Or that I'm not praying to myself...
My sponsor is not big on God. His higher power is AA and the people in it. That works for him, but I'd like to explore my own higher power more, before just throwing in the towel and taking his approach. Besides, I'd hate to lean on any person or group of people that much. People can let you down.
Also, a higher power can be with you anywhere, anytime. People can't.

I figure it's ok to do my best with two and three and move on. I feel the other steps are important in my development, so I don't want to get too hung up on anything. I can always revisit them.
All the A's are spiritually based. So this issue is crucial.
Anyone else confront this dilemma?

Mark
I figure it's ok to do my best with two and three and move on.

Mark, that is all that any of us can do. It is important to understand that our conception of God changes as we work the steps, as we live sober. Most addicts are inherently spiritual. It comes with the territory. We use because it helps us fill a hole that otherwise seems empty.

If you take comfort in your faith (I am assuming you are Catholic) then I think it makes sense that you start there. Remember that the step 3 suggests that we turn our will and our lives over to God or a Higher Power (these terms are used interchangeably)as we understood Him. It is likely that your understanding of your HP will change as you move forward. All seedlings grow in the sunlight of the Spirit.

I was raised Protestant, but became disenchanted with a God who micro managed the lives of His followers while allowing so much suffering in the world. I grew angry, and turned away. It is easier to grow angry than to seek a greater understanding, but I was young and the drugs beckoned, suggesting an easier solution.

When I worked my 2nd Step, I quite literally climbed a mountain, fell on my knees and prayed to a God that I did not believe in. The prayer went something like this. I do not know if you are out there, or if you are listening, but I do know that my way is not working, and I am asking for your help. Funny thing is that I was answered immediately. Nothing real fancyIt was a little less than a burning bush or Charlton Heston walking off the mountain with white hair. It as more a sense of warmth, a sense of not feeling quite so alone. It was enough.

I was into music, and realized that most art is an expression of Man's desire to seek God. Thus, the music was not my HP, but it reflected an aspiration toward God. That helped, and I learned to take comfort in my music.

I was into nature and liked to paddle white water. It struck me one day that the God of my understanding was like a powerful current that flowed through each of us, connecting us, and carrying us with it toward an inevitable sea. I realized that if I learned to follow that current, to go with the spiritual flow, my life seemed to get much better. It seems to have order and good sense. When I tried to do things my way, well, have you ever tried to swim upstream against a strong current?

This is not to say bad things do not happen to good people. Shucks, I got cancer when I had around 13 years sober. Life happens, as does death. My belief is not rooted in a God that saves me from life's ups and downs, but rather a God that helps me through them, and helps me to grow in the process.

These analogies may or may not work for you. If you are reconciled to the faith of your upbringing, I would ask if there is a priest you could discuss this with? If you are not comfortable doing this, I would suggest that you did what I did: go to a few different meetings and ask for the ESH of those in the rooms as to Step 2 and 3. Take what you need and leave the rest. No addict with half a program will try to tell you what to think.

Keep posting and I will try to find some literature that addresses the issue.

I will offer that the 4th Step is pretty hard without a good foundation in the first three steps, but that does not mean that you should not keep trying.

Write back and let us know how you are doing.

August
His higher power is AA and the people in it. That works for him, but I'd like to explore my own higher power more, before just throwing in the towel and taking his approach.

I was hesitant to post because I'm not your sponsor and I think you're doing a good job with him and don't want to take away from that.

However,I was unable to really do a good 4th step until I had that resolved.You have to decide and be comfortable with your own higher power.I've heard many say they use the group and that's fine.I don't have any problem with that,but I had to have my own personal revelation of what my HP is.It's something that I really can't explain but yet I know it exist.It's not one dimensional either.

Maybe you need more time to explore what you're comfortable with? I think as long as you you're willing something will be revealed.The steps are in order for a reason.If we don't have a HP to turn all the mess we've created that comes out in our 4th step,it's just more baggage we have to carry around.
Mark,

It is likely that your understanding of your HP will change as you move forward. All seedlings grow in the sunlight of the Spirit.


This is my experience and my HP, God is still changing for me as I continue to grow and seek.

For me, Step 2 is one of my favorites as all it states is Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Came, came to, came to believe.....I started showing up at meetings not to get spiritual but so I wouldn't drink or use anymore, that's all I was looking for in the beginning and wow, here are people with not only days, months of sobriety but years and even decades without having to pop a pill or pick up a drink to deal with life.....so I kept coming to the meetings as it seemed to be working, I wasn't using or drinking and the obsession, that compulsion to drink or use was fading and then it was lifted........I knew deep down that my actions and my behaviors while using were completely insane. I did things that "normal" people would never even think about doing, like going to the bar before picking my kids up at daycare, grabbing a 6pack for the drive home and making sure they where safely strapped into their car seats & buckled, then drive them home legally drunk. Or the lies I told to my husband, friends, family just so I wouldn't have to quit popping pills, the insane amount of money that I spent to buy pills so I had no problem whatsoever believing that I was insane and I've experienced the "dry drunk" stage for months at a time which for me was just as insane as the behaviors didn't change, I just didn't use alcohol or drugs.....So when they told me that all I had to do was believe that a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity, I started praying and asking for the willingness to believe and it came, first through believing in the group and then when I kept praying, remained open and willing, my HP, God blessed me with some spiritual experiences (I had one like August, the warmth and love that flowed through me one day while in prayer in the middle of winter, standing outside in the freezing cold) and all the doubts eased away and left.......it was a process for me and I'm grateful that I kept putting the next foot forward as suggested and kept doing the next right thing and stuck around for the miracle to happen.....

Step 3 was kept simple for me, there was a Higher Power and it wasn't me, that I'd already proven time and again to myself so to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him was simply turning it over to his care, he leads, I follow. I listened to my sponsor and friends in the program and quit doing things my way. For me, God is the right thing, the loving thing, the selfless thing that I should have been practicing all along and in order to learn how to be of service to God and to others, I had to look at me and my past behaviors so by taking Step 3, I was taking that leap of faith to do Step 4 & 5 and the rest of the steps to rid myself of the baggage I was carrying in order to be of purpose to others and myself.............

Pray for the willingness and it will come............Next meeting you go to, pray to see the absolute Power in the room then sit back and enjoy.......

xoxo
Stacey
Thanks for all that. I'll have to read and re read the above posts to digest them properly. I know the answer is there. Lots of good stuff.
Mainly I know that I have to find my own HP not just follow my sponsors example. He knows that too.
M
Good Morning Mark,

I apologize for yet another long post, I'm afraid this may be more for my benefit than yours, I hope you find something in there you can use.

But, hey you posted, so.....(Laugh)

Congratulations on making the choice to stop using drugs and start on a new journey. I am on that journey as well, I love being clean.

While I don't attend AA or NA meetings currently I am very familiar with the steps. I utilize the principals contained in them daily.

I am Catholic, born, baptized, confirmed actively practiced. Gave up the practice to pursue drugs. Got clean went back to Catholicism. I actually did my 1st 4th step with a catholic priest. Relapsed left the church again.

Today I read the Bible, I believe in Jesus Christ and I Love God. And I think for the first time in my life I don't feel awkward, or apologetic for saying that.

I mean in my mind Catholicism had taken such a beating that I felt guilty about claiming to be one and it was impossible for me to defend the actions of the church, they were indefensible so I left.

Then it kinda dawned on me my actions were also impossible to defend. I had acted against every value I had. I had done some horrible things. I like you figured God wasn't listening. How could he be? I was very close to deciding to leave life, just as I had left the church.

I read in a book this saying once. "I don't care about Jesus, because Jesus don't care about me." and that was the position I held, until of course I needed him.

And need him I did as my addiction led me back to that spot, that end of the road spot, that really scary place.

I began to see that in my life ever since I left the church, or whenever I wander off the spiritual path through my own choices well. I ALWAYS ended up in place both physically and mentally where I would NEED God.

After 30 years living an addictive life I discovered that I was created to need something. I can not navigate successfully through life in America on my own resources.

I lack the understanding, , decision making ability and whatever else is needed to live a life free relying solely on me.. I have to allow something other than myself to guide me. The choice for me is what is that something gonna be.

For me it comes down to do either my addictive mind, or my higher consciousness.
(The spirit or the flesh) if you will.

I had allowed the addictive voice to call the shots for 30 years. I lived to feed my addiction. It had no concept of God, and still doesn't. It never will. I hate where it leads me.

So as long as the addiction was running my life I could not honestly decide to follow God. I have learned through trial and error however, that if I make a choice to not take a drug. And I follow that choice up by making a choice to not listen to my addict mind, I begin to change.
.
First what does my addictive voice sound like,. It's like this...

It loves to create thoughts, feelings and images that do 2 things. They either make this lifestyle (being clean) seem ridiculous, boring , full of lack, depressing, impossible to maintain. absent of reward, guilt ridden and well just not me. Or it makes drugs feel or seem like the solution. See that's all that portion of my mind can do, that's what it was made to do obtain pleasure. Nothing else. So It does what it was designed to do.

The thing is there is more to life than pleasure. Isn't there? If I listen to my addictive voice I become in conflict with everyone and anything that comes in it's path. I will both kill and die for it. Scary thought.

But The Great News is I have a choice, see even when I was most strung out there would be this tiny voice, it would be hard to hear in the fog. It would say stuff like. "man this s*** is killing me. I gotta quit using, I gotta be responsible for me, I gotta exercise, I gotta pray Maybe not those exact words but pretty close. All really positive stuff that actually makes me feel a zillion times better than dope. Do you hear something telling you drugs are bad for you Mark, if so what do you think that might be?

So if we agree that the first step is Drugs are very bad for me, and my life is unmanageable. Which I think is a REALLY hard concept to get. I mean I used to think yeah my life is unmanageable because of the drugs. Stop the drugs, Stop the unmanageablity

Well for me that was wrong. I could stop ingesting drugs, but I would do nothing to recognize or understand my addictive mind. Which was what was making my life unmanageable And so has I plowed through the other steps seeking relief form life's pressures well I got none. So, I wound up going back and using. Always initially for relief or escape, but ultimately out of sheer dependence.

Today, I ignore my addictive voice it can not harm me if I don't allow it to. I control it plain and simple.

So now what. Right? I mean I'm not using I understand how my addiction works, but I have no idea How to enjoy life... how to be happy, at peace, of service. To enjoy normal stuff designed to give me pleasure. Things like prayer, love, food, nature, exercise, sex, relationships, goal fulfillment, career, values, peace, writing, music, movies, sports. I have no idea how to handle hardship either things like loss, debt, illness, depression, anxiety, loneliness, hurt physical pain, stress, worry. You know I can not handle life.

Enter step 2--I am really focused on this right now and remember this is a LIFE long journey and it's a blast I mean I will never get there, there is no end, no expectations, it's things I do because the rewards are incredible. yes there is a pay-off. One I Love. Anyway I use the NA basic text to get the questions I need to ask myself in order to stay on this path. There are really GREAT questions in there.

So on page 24 of the 5th edition of the Basic Text (there may be a more current edition) In the last paragraph it sates some things, I turn those into questions.

1. the text states. "The process of coming to believe restores us to sanity"--Where am I in the process? What do I believe (to accept as true) How sane am I. What is sanity for me? How sane do I want to be? What am looking for here?

Where am I in the process--I believe beyond doubt in Jesus Christ the son of God. I believe in God who has ALL power, I believe in the Holy Spirit. Again these are my beliefs they may or may not be yours

What is sanity for me--Being able to make the healthy choice..

How sane am I.--Sane enough not to take the first drug and start the deadly cycle all over again. Not sane enough to run the whole show on my own. I have my moments man. (I am in the process man and thank you god for keeping me in it.

2. "The strength to move into action comes from this belief."

This to me is one of those red light indicators I always ignored. In past attempts at recovery and this was so critical for me

Well, I did not really believe in anything or anybody but my addictive voice I could not since it was still calling the shots, I' would say some manipulative stuff to sound good, even go back to church, heck I'm trying here, Hit another meeting, oh so it's OK to not believe, the steps are just suggestion cool I'll take that route. (My addictive voice convinced me of that one) well I ended up high on that path.

Honesty, That's all my God wanted was for me to get Honest with him. Once I did Power began to enter me. Strength if you will. Simple but oh so wonderful.

3. "We need to accept this step to START on the road to recovery"

For me and in hind sight, I never accepted a higher power, so I guess I was never on the road. I was trying to stop the pain caused by active drug use. And I can do that without accepting this step

But now I am not seeking the absence of pain cause by active drug use. I am seeking TRUTH, LOVE, PEACE, JOY, FREEDOM and the ABILITY TO OVERCOME LIFE"S PROBLEMS.

For me since that is what I honestly want. I do not want those things listed and dope.(that was my great wish in the past) I don't want to enhance pleasure or decrease pain with dope. I want NOTHING to do with dope.

And I know for me without any doubt MY TRUTH. I must have God.

I hope you find your truth Mark. Whatever it may be.

Thanks for letting me share and Peace.




i have always struggled with the "God" concept of NA/AA. i'm not spiritual at all, when i go to meetings and they are all talking about their higher power i get uncomfortable. i have never thouht that a higher power could be anything but God. But recently i have started to see that it doesn't really matter what your higher power is, but just that you actually have something greater than yourself to look to when things get tough. I haven't worked the steps, but i honestly think you shouldn't get too worked up over them, if you give the best you can then thats what matters.

raerae
I was raised going to church. I was familiar with the concept of giving your problems over to God and letting him do what I could not. I would routinely ask him to take my problems and then take them back quickly. The difference now is that I try to remember to hand them back again. Sometimes it's on a daily basis. I never was a worrier. My mother was a constant worrier. I used to laugh and constantly berated her for that. Then something funny happened; I became a mother. It goes hand in hand.

While using drugs to party, I just used to have fun, escape, become less inhibited. When I started on the percocets I used to have more confidence and energy with all of the tasks of balancing work, running a house and motherhood. Baking cookies, running to hockey games, work, Christmas cleaning, cooking, shopping was overwhelming to me. It should be. It's an awful lot for anybody.

I've said it here before but the most comforting thing I've read in NA says, "God expects no more from you than you can do in a day". That was so freeing to me. If he expects just that, then I'm okay just the way I am. I sure don't lay in bed and do nothing all day. Never did. Thats when I started to really love God. I was always uncomfortable with those that loved and worshipped him. Now I have a better understanding of that and am not so intimidated by it.

I saw a quote outside of church that said, "If you're no longer close with God, who moved?"

I also have begun to see my prayers answered. Not always the way I want but answers none the less. I have to be sensitive to the subtle answers that come maybe a little every day.

This is my way of coming to believe. The miracle that I can be happy not being high. That I can get out of bed and function not being high. I never thought I could do that.

I would listen to the inner voice that you know is true Mark. We all have the inner voice that doubts, chastizes (sp), etc. Somehow I know thats not the voice I need to listen to. It's the voice that knows that I'm good and worthy despite all of the negative crap I tell myself. It's the voice of pure acceptance of me just the way I am. I think it's the voice of God who is my higher power. Only when I listen to that voice I am happy. I am 100% able to give and receive love.

P.S. I also saw a quote this weekend that said, "God does not call the qualified, he qualifies the called". I immediately texted my sponser with that one.
First of all, thanks for the words from the heart.
I, too am a baptized, confirmed Catholic. Dad always used to reply to a question to which the answer was obviously yes with, "Is the Pope Catholic?"
To this day, whenever I get into a philosophical discussion about religion with non Catholics, I always use the Pope as my trump card: We have a Pope and they don't!
That's game, set and match. End of discussion. lol


I just got home from the Sat. AM mens AA meeting that I drive twenty miles to attend. It's always a POWERFUL meeting. My sponsor's home meeting. He wasn't there today.

Some very powerful messages today. The last guy that spoke was in his seventies, I'd guess, and spoke with a scottish accent. He drank this week, he tearfully related. He spoke for a while, barely able to keep himself composed. It was very moving. I made a point to shake his hand after.
It brought tears to my eyes as I shook his hand, so I bolted out.

The tears continued the whole drive home but I couldn't figure out why. The old man would be fine. He was back in the meeting room. The ones who die are the ones that don't make it back, I thought.

Then, a truth was revealed to me.
You see, I've been writing on the fourth step this week. I've written down who I hurt and who I stole from and who I lied to and whatever character flaws I could think of.
But the main thing that has caused me problems my whole life suddenly hit me today as I drove home from the meeting.
It's not even on my list! It's as obvious as the nose on my face. But I guess I couldn't admit it, even to myself.
It'll be hard to admit to my sponsor, so I'm not going to tell all of you. But I feel a great relief just knowing and admiting it to myself. I said two Our Fathers out loud in the truck before arriving home. It's all I could think to do.

With that revelation comes the knowledge that I need a higher power and the knowledge that there is one.
I can't believe I've been evading this all my life. I should have dealt with this many, many years ago. But it would have taken faith and I always lacked that. I was defiant. In my ignorance, I thought I knew it all.

This process is humbling.

Thank God that at least I am alive today so that I didn't take this secret to my grave. I wonder how many do?
I'll bet dad did.
It may explain why he took his life with a shotgun barrel pressed to one eye.
He was only a few years older than I am when he did that...
M.