I'm not trying to cause any trouble over here. This is an honest question. I see so many relapses on this board and yes, I know relapse happens often with our disease but I see very few posts about any 12 step programs. Has anyone tried NA or AA? I mean, given it an honest shot? I'm in contact with ex heroin users all the time and they don't seem to be struggling like I read here, well not struggling more than any other addict I know. I was reading MNM's thread and so many people here seem to be having such a hard time. I feel so bad for you. I was an active addict for over 30 years on everything but heroin. Heroin scared the crap out of me but not much else did. Pills and booze finally kicked my a** but I spent a lot of years getting high on a lot of crap. The reason I'm asking is that I know what AA did for me and I believe it can work for anyone that is an addict/alkie. Again, I'm not here to debate or push 12 steps on anyone or cause friction between boards again. I'm curious and concerned.
cat....u said it looks like we have trouble stayin clean and asked if any of us used the 12 step program...hell ya! ive been to atleast 1000 na meetings in my life ..im only 25..heroin is an extremely hard drug to kick. the physical withdrawals to the "routine" of it. us needle pushers get addicted to the whole needle procees in ittself...mixin the dope with water, cookin it, watching the little stream of blood shoot up in the needle so u know u get a perfect hit, tying up your arm, the whole process becomes an everydayu routine and people get used to the routine alone. and the drug. its almost like an abusive relationship...u know ur not supposed to be in it but youre so used to it and its comfortable it becomes part of your life. addicts fear change whether its setting up your needles, finding someone better , and so on. so ya, theres alot more than the heroin withdrawals that makes a heroin addict addicted. im on like my forty seventh attempt to git off the s***..i have 5 months and i have never gone that long..but its worth a shot. im happy for the first time in my life. but yes i have tried na and aa and failed miserably countless times.
I understand, Courtney. I went thru the same thing with pills. Just getting the paper for a script was a high in itself. Sometimes even enough to make withdrawals stop. I was just laughing with someone about that today...how much addiction is mental as much if not more than physical. Hell, I went to meetings for almost 5 years popping pills. I had no idea what clean meant. So, yeah, I understand the ritual part of the buzz. Like they say in NA a drug is a drug. Congratulations on 5 months, That is great! It will get better the more time you get,
smooches
smooches
12 stepper... Yeah there are a few regulars here that do attend meeting. I can only speak for me i've been to no less then 100 meeting. My mom use to take me to AA when i was real young like 12. On my own I went to a handful of NA meetings, My mom did find soberity from the drink with AA sober some 15ish or more years now. I do know it CAN work i've seen it. I have respect for anyone who finds what works for them. My mom has not been to a meeting in the last 6 years she is still sober.
Yes... i did try it. I know all about the Big Book, sponcers, meetings i grew up with my mom fully into AA i know where meetings are held in my area. My father is also a addict i've been to countless rehabs that focas on AA type recovery to see my dad when i was growing up. For me most of all I am sick with hearing "you're not working the program/you're running your own program/you're resistant or defiant/ you haven't hit bottom yet" and the mind frame is often that the addict without the program will not be able to maintain sobriety. It's ignored using the program works for VERY FEW. I just flatly disagree on many key points to the program as it relates to ME. I'll tell you why. Keep in mind this is my answer i don't speak for the heroin board. I'm aware I could be WRONG. I am bias against ALL organized religions, cults, AA/NA, scientology, and such. Iam scared of blind allegiance. I don't want something to belive in. I want to stay true to my own principles. I don't want a pat on the back. I don't want false wisdom fake smiles. I dislike with a passion the fakeness of meeting "the group hugs". I don't belive in any higher power. I don't think i'm powerless at ALL. I think every man/women has power of self. I think to admit one is powerless is a fast way to failure. I don't care for any group that places principles before personalities "aint that brainwashing?." I don't want to be made to think like every other person in the room. I think AA/NA do cause dependency on the program i know from experience dependency is not healthy. I don't think it's right that people can be FORCED court ordered to attend meeting THAT ARE very much religions in nature. AA/NA are religions i know they claim to not be. They open and close with religious prayers. How can one pretend that this is not religious?. I feel it's wrong to coerce anyone to attend attendence should be of total FREE WILL not scare tatics or forced. I get annoyed that people who choose to not belive are ask to PRAY?. It's a step to get one to be a spirtual person..I don't want to do that.
I can say I can understand how it's works for some for me personally it's not a option. So far... yeah my way is not working lol. I don't like the group support i am not good in social situations i twitch when strangers get to close to me in line at the grocery store. I just can't get my head around the aa/na thing. I could give more reasons i'm anti AA i'll cut this short. I will say I LOVE many AA/NA quotes and saying i think they have many + points for sure. OVERALL I don't like it for me. It is not freedom when only one option is available.
As long as the 12 steps of AA continue to hang on the walls of treatment centers everywhere, as long as rehab consists of AA-styled meetings in the rehab and bussing people to local AA meetings, as long as the conditions of the rehab program consist of 90 in 90, getting a sponsor and working steps, then there is no real choice..i like options.
P.S "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" so why do those in the substance abuse field continue to force and direct people to a program that fails more then it succeeds?"
Yes... i did try it. I know all about the Big Book, sponcers, meetings i grew up with my mom fully into AA i know where meetings are held in my area. My father is also a addict i've been to countless rehabs that focas on AA type recovery to see my dad when i was growing up. For me most of all I am sick with hearing "you're not working the program/you're running your own program/you're resistant or defiant/ you haven't hit bottom yet" and the mind frame is often that the addict without the program will not be able to maintain sobriety. It's ignored using the program works for VERY FEW. I just flatly disagree on many key points to the program as it relates to ME. I'll tell you why. Keep in mind this is my answer i don't speak for the heroin board. I'm aware I could be WRONG. I am bias against ALL organized religions, cults, AA/NA, scientology, and such. Iam scared of blind allegiance. I don't want something to belive in. I want to stay true to my own principles. I don't want a pat on the back. I don't want false wisdom fake smiles. I dislike with a passion the fakeness of meeting "the group hugs". I don't belive in any higher power. I don't think i'm powerless at ALL. I think every man/women has power of self. I think to admit one is powerless is a fast way to failure. I don't care for any group that places principles before personalities "aint that brainwashing?." I don't want to be made to think like every other person in the room. I think AA/NA do cause dependency on the program i know from experience dependency is not healthy. I don't think it's right that people can be FORCED court ordered to attend meeting THAT ARE very much religions in nature. AA/NA are religions i know they claim to not be. They open and close with religious prayers. How can one pretend that this is not religious?. I feel it's wrong to coerce anyone to attend attendence should be of total FREE WILL not scare tatics or forced. I get annoyed that people who choose to not belive are ask to PRAY?. It's a step to get one to be a spirtual person..I don't want to do that.
I can say I can understand how it's works for some for me personally it's not a option. So far... yeah my way is not working lol. I don't like the group support i am not good in social situations i twitch when strangers get to close to me in line at the grocery store. I just can't get my head around the aa/na thing. I could give more reasons i'm anti AA i'll cut this short. I will say I LOVE many AA/NA quotes and saying i think they have many + points for sure. OVERALL I don't like it for me. It is not freedom when only one option is available.
As long as the 12 steps of AA continue to hang on the walls of treatment centers everywhere, as long as rehab consists of AA-styled meetings in the rehab and bussing people to local AA meetings, as long as the conditions of the rehab program consist of 90 in 90, getting a sponsor and working steps, then there is no real choice..i like options.
P.S "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" so why do those in the substance abuse field continue to force and direct people to a program that fails more then it succeeds?"
Yes 12 Stepper. I am currently doing the 12 steps but I am going to have to second everything courtney said. I dont know if were all that different or what but maybe its true, heroin addicts just take longer...dont know...we'll see where the 12 steps take me. Ive just started trying them for the first time...im now 47 years old...and a needle pusher as courtney says...was clean 20 years or more from heroin but relasped full 5 years ago...i really dont know...I understand the 12 steps have helped many addicts, hell, they help me too...but heroin...well...were just maybe attached for life...its a different ball game sometimes..I can hope I will learn to stay away from it...but...truly...its always a one day at a time thing....what courtney said was so true....its everyting that goes with it...
Con
Con
Whatever works.
NA is an amazing program and I too have seen people transformed working the steps. The fellowship part of it, the sharing I think is amazing. Talk about people that will give you the shirt off their backs as long as you are commited to your own recovery. I've never seen such giving in my life than at an NA meeting.
However, it's not for me. Currently I'm watching a friend in crisis who was a meeting maker. She's got four years and some in and right now her sponsor is bonkers. Alot of her friends from her home group are more out there it seems sober than they were when using. There's no way my friend is using today but she's just shaking her head as the hours pass and person after person is pouring over mundane problems as she's in the thick of it.
Of course that's the one aspect of it. That can happen in any situation in any walk of life, but just my personal opinion I got enough of that in my world right now. Self-imposed. I make or allow all the crapolla, but I'm not using.
Congrats again to Courtney. Good post from Zero Girl. 12 Stepper you know you can ask us anything over here. That is a very good question. Congrats on your clean time. Afterall we're the best part of the Board, right? LOL I cherish my dear ones over here. They've helped me more than any meeting ever could. Again, that just me of course.
NA is an amazing program and I too have seen people transformed working the steps. The fellowship part of it, the sharing I think is amazing. Talk about people that will give you the shirt off their backs as long as you are commited to your own recovery. I've never seen such giving in my life than at an NA meeting.
However, it's not for me. Currently I'm watching a friend in crisis who was a meeting maker. She's got four years and some in and right now her sponsor is bonkers. Alot of her friends from her home group are more out there it seems sober than they were when using. There's no way my friend is using today but she's just shaking her head as the hours pass and person after person is pouring over mundane problems as she's in the thick of it.
Of course that's the one aspect of it. That can happen in any situation in any walk of life, but just my personal opinion I got enough of that in my world right now. Self-imposed. I make or allow all the crapolla, but I'm not using.
Congrats again to Courtney. Good post from Zero Girl. 12 Stepper you know you can ask us anything over here. That is a very good question. Congrats on your clean time. Afterall we're the best part of the Board, right? LOL I cherish my dear ones over here. They've helped me more than any meeting ever could. Again, that just me of course.
Thanks for all your replies. Like I said I'm not here to push the steps on anyone. It took me many rehabs and detoxes before I gave AA a try so I understand what you're all saying. I was an old lady before I got sober <G> I hated the thought of someone telling me what to do. OMG Didn't they know who I was? And I wasn't done getting high. I wanted to get sober when I was sick and miserable but once I got to feeling better I would forget how bad I felt. That's what my problem was. But anyway, I wish you all the best in your efforts to get clean and pray you all find what works for you. I remember all too well not wanting to get high but needing it. It sucks.
smooches to all
smooches to all
Hi 12 stepper. I've also tried NA and for me, I enjoyed the sitting with other addicts and sharing etc. I just couldn't get my head round the higher power thing. I know it's not about god and all that, I just can't honestly think of anything I actually believe in at all to get me thru. I have tried and tried and I think until you're able to do that, there's not much you can do. I'm too much of a blck and white, straight down the line kind of person and trust no-one and nothing and believe it when I see it. Not in a bad way, just through experience. I reall find it too difficult and almost feel silly thinking there's something out there. Hope this doesn't sound really bad, just being honest.
Linz x
Linz x
Hi Linz
I was told if I couldn't believe in a God of my understanding to use the group as a higher power. You know that positive energy you get in a meeting? That is defiinitely a power greater than me. I've talked to a lot of people that had trouble with the God concept but could feel the meeting energy. It worked for them.
I was told if I couldn't believe in a God of my understanding to use the group as a higher power. You know that positive energy you get in a meeting? That is defiinitely a power greater than me. I've talked to a lot of people that had trouble with the God concept but could feel the meeting energy. It worked for them.
12 stepper I would agree fully their is power in the meeting. I've been to many moving meetings. I could give a thousands reasons but, I don't know why I can't myself totally sober.
hi 12stepper, i'm an addict from Wales,U.K. i'm currentley using but have been clean a few times. One time i went to a NA meeting and when i left i thought to myself the 12 step program does not really help people with addiction to Heroin. I found the meeting(and all the 12 steps stuff) not very helpfull at all, I'm not an atheist but i do believe in some sort of higher power/being, but the 12 step program was to relegious for me, i also thought that the steps were all a bit too alike, i know that the program helps thousands of people with there addictions and i'm happy for those thousands but it did nothing for me and i came away from that meeting feeling worse than when i walked through the door. I don't think AA/NA is for everyone with addiction problems, sorry if i've upset anyone with my opinions but we are all different? Aint we. Good luck everyone in recovery at the moment
PLURMe522@tmail.com
whats up i been goin 2 meeting for about 2 months now and it helps alot as long as your deticated. there is so much support in the rooms its great. honostly i relapsed cuz i got tired of the whole f***in sobrietly thing. i just wanted 2 get high really bad and i wanted it more then my recovery. im still searching for my higher power, the god thing doesnt work for me to well. but ill swear upon the fact that like they say there only promas is to stop active addiction and it works if you work it..."so work it your worth it and live it and love it".......... hehehe ne way id be alot worse off if it wasnt for the rrooms it gives people hope when they feel they have lost it all.
whats up i been goin 2 meeting for about 2 months now and it helps alot as long as your deticated. there is so much support in the rooms its great. honostly i relapsed cuz i got tired of the whole f***in sobrietly thing. i just wanted 2 get high really bad and i wanted it more then my recovery. im still searching for my higher power, the god thing doesnt work for me to well. but ill swear upon the fact that like they say there only promas is to stop active addiction and it works if you work it..."so work it your worth it and live it and love it".......... hehehe ne way id be alot worse off if it wasnt for the rrooms it gives people hope when they feel they have lost it all.
Interesting question...
Lately my girl has taken to going to AA rather than NA. She wants the spiritual piece and is afraid to work the steps because "it's hard, Mom." Duh...no kidding? But she gave up on NA and said she found in the long run (she attended for a year or so) there was a lack of true recovery and a lot of anger of the fact they couldn't get high.
So I asked my daughter's former therapist, addiction specialist, and now a friend why it seemed there was greater recovery in AA than in NA and he said that for the alcoholic 90 in 90 actually works because that's when the alcoholic brain shows its first significant healing, but the same is not true of most other drugs. For instance, long-term cocaine users show only marginal brain healing in the first 90 days, and likewise for opiates. I found this fascinating as I know many AAers who really are in recovery.
I do believe the needle brings with it something new and more insidious...the fixing is an addiction in itself much like cutting is a highly addictive behavior as it releases those missing endorphins. I know people who shot ice water in the absence of heroin just to get the feeling of the fix...the pseudo-rush of the process.
My daughter is doing well with meetings right now...we'll see if she follows through. She's having a hard time finding a woman sponsor that she feels she can relate to...she wants someone with similar experiences...or maybe she's just hiding from the hard work...her business.
Peace~M&M
PS Thanks for dropping by =)
Lately my girl has taken to going to AA rather than NA. She wants the spiritual piece and is afraid to work the steps because "it's hard, Mom." Duh...no kidding? But she gave up on NA and said she found in the long run (she attended for a year or so) there was a lack of true recovery and a lot of anger of the fact they couldn't get high.
So I asked my daughter's former therapist, addiction specialist, and now a friend why it seemed there was greater recovery in AA than in NA and he said that for the alcoholic 90 in 90 actually works because that's when the alcoholic brain shows its first significant healing, but the same is not true of most other drugs. For instance, long-term cocaine users show only marginal brain healing in the first 90 days, and likewise for opiates. I found this fascinating as I know many AAers who really are in recovery.
I do believe the needle brings with it something new and more insidious...the fixing is an addiction in itself much like cutting is a highly addictive behavior as it releases those missing endorphins. I know people who shot ice water in the absence of heroin just to get the feeling of the fix...the pseudo-rush of the process.
My daughter is doing well with meetings right now...we'll see if she follows through. She's having a hard time finding a woman sponsor that she feels she can relate to...she wants someone with similar experiences...or maybe she's just hiding from the hard work...her business.
Peace~M&M
PS Thanks for dropping by =)
Bottom line >, "what works, works" and that's all that really matters. If AA works for someone, that's great. If drug treatment works for someone that's great too. If group therapy, light therapy, color therapy, aroma therapy or anything else works, all that matters is that it works for the individual seeking to modify their behavior. And really, that's all we are talking about here, behavior modification
The important thing is for people to seek help before their behavior destroys their lives and their families.
We have to understand that not everyone can be saved from their own self destruction. We have all lost friends to alcohol and drugs that neither I nor anyone else could help, because they weren't able or willing to help themselves
I read somewhere that over 90 percent stop going within the 1st year. That tells me that - they really weren't ready to help themselves.
I don't know ,but I would suspect that heroin addicts struggle more with self esteem issues, social issues, & generally feel more helpless than the alcoholic or prescription addict. Maybe because of the stigma or long time view of the "street junkie" . The sleazy illegality of it all. They take these issues into AA/NA & often feel defeated & out of place before they even get their feet wet.
I myself ,because Im using medication to help my recovery, don't feel comfortable in XA.,,, but I would never question the success of this program- if you stick with it.
best regards,
jack
The important thing is for people to seek help before their behavior destroys their lives and their families.
We have to understand that not everyone can be saved from their own self destruction. We have all lost friends to alcohol and drugs that neither I nor anyone else could help, because they weren't able or willing to help themselves
I read somewhere that over 90 percent stop going within the 1st year. That tells me that - they really weren't ready to help themselves.
I don't know ,but I would suspect that heroin addicts struggle more with self esteem issues, social issues, & generally feel more helpless than the alcoholic or prescription addict. Maybe because of the stigma or long time view of the "street junkie" . The sleazy illegality of it all. They take these issues into AA/NA & often feel defeated & out of place before they even get their feet wet.
I myself ,because Im using medication to help my recovery, don't feel comfortable in XA.,,, but I would never question the success of this program- if you stick with it.
best regards,
jack
yup Jack...I totally agree if it works then it gets the job done. I'm just not sure what works for ME. I do question if i even want anything to work. Sounds so dumb but, often i think maybe I don't want to be better. That is not to sound terrible it is just honest. The whole recovery thing is very hard for me. I go round and round with myself about it.
Tried both NA & AA and it just does not work for me.......
I do NA, only because I'm on parole and I have to. But it is OK and would recomend anyone to try it at least for a couple of weeks.
Been going to for a while now. Not doing a 'programe' as such. Keeping clean and trying to do the right things. Along with others, some of the people i've met in NA have helped me to stay clean. I'll be forever grateful for that. The god thing still freaks me out, so don't try and think about that. I go, cause i can say the sh*t that is in my head and people understand. Undretsand it's not for everyone though...
