"Often,people have no problem with changes as long as the change occurs in someone else.When the alcoholic says,"I wouldn't have to drink the way I do if my partner were more considerate,"he or she is really saying,"I don't need to change.Make my partner change.I'll be just fine then."
Codependents,for example,may eagerly seek help,thinking experts can tell them what to do to stop someone from using chemicals.They are disappointed when they learn that they can do nothing to alter the addict's behavior,that they are powerless.When people in Alanon tell them
"We don't come here to change our spouse.We come here to change ourselves."they get particulary peeved.
"Change myself?" they may respond."Why should I change myself?I'm not the one who's drinking/using!"
I don't like to be corrected and I have always had a resentment toward authority figures.I get really indignant when I have to pay my property and school taxes and I hate wearing a seat belt.
After 3 tickets I decided that maybe wearing a seat belt was not such a bad ideal.I also realized that some of my property taxes pay to have heavy trash picked up once a month that would cost me a lot if I took it to the dump.
My point is that a lot of my preconceived notions about things are misconstrued.
I'm the one that needs to change.Ouch
Do you guys have things in your life that need a second evaluation?
I posted this because I see there are several people on here either going through divorce or seperation but also I think it applies to everyone.
This has always been one of my biggest challenges in sobriety.When my ego starts running the show,I always feel like if the world and the people around me would just see things my way I wouldn't have any problems changing.
I was always quick to admit my character defects but a lot of times I was just giving it lip service.The truth is that I actually enjoy some of my defects even though the end result is misery.
It comes down to this for me.....What lengths am I willing to go to before I can bring about change in my life?
Can I undure some pain for a short period?
Can I quit blaming others?
Can I finally admit that just maybe I'm the one responsible for a lot of grief in my life?
Tim, I try not to think this early in the morning)LOL) but your questions got me thinking. Those are some hard questions to ask oneself. Thanks, Shantel
Goddammit, Tim, That post pushed every single one of my buttons.
Beck told me the other day to hold onto what I know. This is what I know:
Its possible to abandon your spouse and children without ever leaving the house.
A child shouldnt always be answering the phone with, Mommys napping.
That incredible levels of present pain can seem preferable to future uncertainty.
I wouldnt have used if he hadnt [fill in the blank]. He wouldnt have [blank] if I hadnt used. That you can chase that conundrum around for years and end up in the same place.
That I dont have to know why someone does what they do, I just need to know why I react the way I do.
That Ive always known I was the cause of most of my own grief What the hell do you think I was trying to avoid thinking about by using?
That sometimes there are no good choices, just what you learn from the choices you make.
Why are you up this early on a Sunday? Im up because I have to give my cat four shots a day at regular intervals. How dare you make me think this time of the morning?
Hugs, but grudgingly,
Gina
(Its still all his fault because all men are s***s. And this board would be a better place if everyone would just do what I say. LOL)
Beck told me the other day to hold onto what I know. This is what I know:
Its possible to abandon your spouse and children without ever leaving the house.
A child shouldnt always be answering the phone with, Mommys napping.
That incredible levels of present pain can seem preferable to future uncertainty.
I wouldnt have used if he hadnt [fill in the blank]. He wouldnt have [blank] if I hadnt used. That you can chase that conundrum around for years and end up in the same place.
That I dont have to know why someone does what they do, I just need to know why I react the way I do.
That Ive always known I was the cause of most of my own grief What the hell do you think I was trying to avoid thinking about by using?
That sometimes there are no good choices, just what you learn from the choices you make.
Why are you up this early on a Sunday? Im up because I have to give my cat four shots a day at regular intervals. How dare you make me think this time of the morning?
Hugs, but grudgingly,
Gina
(Its still all his fault because all men are s***s. And this board would be a better place if everyone would just do what I say. LOL)
Good Morning,I hear you Shantell.LOL
I'm the opposite.I can't think after 5:00pm
I've already had two cappucinos and am seriously thinking about a third.
Gina........I see your back to your old self.
I'm the opposite.I can't think after 5:00pm
I've already had two cappucinos and am seriously thinking about a third.
Gina........I see your back to your old self.
Huh?
Quit blaming others? Tim don't you think it is human nature or the human being in us that makes us blame others? I blame other people for things that go wrong in my life on almost a daily basis. Thats a hard change to make. Shantel
Morning Gina, Make sure you still have my hubby on your list. Shantel
I just meant you wonderful sense of humour is returning.....
How are you doing?
How are you doing?
| QUOTE |
| I blame other people for things that go wrong in my life on almost a daily basis. Thats a hard change to make |
No sh*t.LOL
But as long as we blame every one else,it deflects any responsibility we may have.It doesn't mean other people are always right by any means but they are not our responsibility.
Believe me I haven't got this down either.It can take a lifetime.I may be a lttle better at it than I was.
Tim, I agree with you but if you know the other person isn't right isn't it easier to just point the blame and walk away? Shantel
good morning tim, gina and shantell:
great post tim... its something i know i need to look at and address.
YES! i blamed others for sure for my misery.."if you hadn't molested me..." if you hadn't made me have that abortion" (directed to father)" if you'd stop drinking and watching porn....." ( directed to husband) the list goes on and on.
so this is where i really get stuck in my recovery.... the resentments, forgiveness...etc, arent those legitimate reasons for my using, they inflicted pain and suffering on me, so how do i look at this in a different perspective? this is where i hope the start of some step work is gonna help me. jewels/julie
great post tim... its something i know i need to look at and address.
YES! i blamed others for sure for my misery.."if you hadn't molested me..." if you hadn't made me have that abortion" (directed to father)" if you'd stop drinking and watching porn....." ( directed to husband) the list goes on and on.
so this is where i really get stuck in my recovery.... the resentments, forgiveness...etc, arent those legitimate reasons for my using, they inflicted pain and suffering on me, so how do i look at this in a different perspective? this is where i hope the start of some step work is gonna help me. jewels/julie
Shantel
Oh yes and I'm very good at that but guess who suffers?It isn't the other person.
Julie-The step work brought it out of the closet but it didn't necessarily solve the problem.I had to start practicing the principles I had learned.It was actually a fairly easy task writing out my steps because I was my favorite topic anyway.
When I actually had to start walking away from situations where I needed to be right,or admit to someone else I was wrong,or make an ammends did I really start grasping how painful some of this is.
Sexual abuse,spousal abuse and things like that are incredibly painful and may take years to work through.I think that is where private counseling and therapy come in.You are not going to just wake up one day and say "I'm over it".
| QUOTE |
| Tim, I agree with you but if you know the other person isn't right isn't it easier to just point the blame and walk away? |
Oh yes and I'm very good at that but guess who suffers?It isn't the other person.
Julie-The step work brought it out of the closet but it didn't necessarily solve the problem.I had to start practicing the principles I had learned.It was actually a fairly easy task writing out my steps because I was my favorite topic anyway.
When I actually had to start walking away from situations where I needed to be right,or admit to someone else I was wrong,or make an ammends did I really start grasping how painful some of this is.
Sexual abuse,spousal abuse and things like that are incredibly painful and may take years to work through.I think that is where private counseling and therapy come in.You are not going to just wake up one day and say "I'm over it".
Shantell,
That's the problem. In most interactions, what's right is very difficult to define. In fact, more than half the arguments in my marriage have been over establishing what even factually happened.
How can you KNOW that the other person isn't right?
Gina
(Unless the other person is a man, of course, and then it's obvious. Your husband is on the s***list until you say otherwise. LOL)
Actually, Tim, Im funniest when Im incandescent with rage. Thanks for asking. Im fine. Im seeing the lawyer tomorrow and Im on here because Im putting off going over the list of questions and papers I need to have ready. LOL, Ill probably be on here all day. How are you?
Jewls, Your resentment list sounds a lot like mine and people on this board who work the program were the first to show me that it was possible to live without my resentments. I thought they were the only things protecting me from the pain of the initiating event.
That's the problem. In most interactions, what's right is very difficult to define. In fact, more than half the arguments in my marriage have been over establishing what even factually happened.
How can you KNOW that the other person isn't right?
Gina
(Unless the other person is a man, of course, and then it's obvious. Your husband is on the s***list until you say otherwise. LOL)
Actually, Tim, Im funniest when Im incandescent with rage. Thanks for asking. Im fine. Im seeing the lawyer tomorrow and Im on here because Im putting off going over the list of questions and papers I need to have ready. LOL, Ill probably be on here all day. How are you?
Jewls, Your resentment list sounds a lot like mine and people on this board who work the program were the first to show me that it was possible to live without my resentments. I thought they were the only things protecting me from the pain of the initiating event.
| QUOTE |
| (Unless the other person is a man, of course, and then it's obvious. Your husband is on the s***list until you say otherwise. LOL) |
....or until you have sex, then everything is forgotten......at least for 5 minutes.LOL
Oh,allright....2 minutes.
Sexual abuse,spousal abuse and things like that are incredibly painful and may take years to work through.I think that is where private counseling and therapy come in.You are not going to just wake up one day and say "I'm over it".
thank you tim for that... for your understanding... i have been in private therapy and counseling for years now for those issues. i still resent... i still hate... despite the fact i know it is hindering my recovery. but on the other hand i am grateful for the progress i have made and I think i have finally learned to detach. i said think, not sure if this is true detachment or just a silent treatment...
as far as my parents are concerned and the hurt and anger i have towards them i have set boundaries with them and they are totally out of my life as we speak. i have to do that to stay healthy cuz as soon as i let them back in to my life....
and as far as the husband is concerned, until i am well enough to get my financial independance to divorce him, i am stuck, but continue to seek more avenues to increase my present income, so as far as he is concerned, i hope this is detachment, i pretend he is invisible, i spent years crying, nagging, fighting, worried about any little comment he mumbled under his breath about me, worried myself sick for all the times he cheats on me and presently he is cheating, so i have found more serenity by not reacting to him. He ENJOYS seeing me in distress and knows exactly which buttons to push to upset me.
so i dont speak to him at all and glady accept his paycheck every wed and insurance benefits which cover every aspect of my recovery. so i hope this is what they mean about detachment. i'm learning tim... baby steps.... julie
thank you tim for that... for your understanding... i have been in private therapy and counseling for years now for those issues. i still resent... i still hate... despite the fact i know it is hindering my recovery. but on the other hand i am grateful for the progress i have made and I think i have finally learned to detach. i said think, not sure if this is true detachment or just a silent treatment...
as far as my parents are concerned and the hurt and anger i have towards them i have set boundaries with them and they are totally out of my life as we speak. i have to do that to stay healthy cuz as soon as i let them back in to my life....
and as far as the husband is concerned, until i am well enough to get my financial independance to divorce him, i am stuck, but continue to seek more avenues to increase my present income, so as far as he is concerned, i hope this is detachment, i pretend he is invisible, i spent years crying, nagging, fighting, worried about any little comment he mumbled under his breath about me, worried myself sick for all the times he cheats on me and presently he is cheating, so i have found more serenity by not reacting to him. He ENJOYS seeing me in distress and knows exactly which buttons to push to upset me.
so i dont speak to him at all and glady accept his paycheck every wed and insurance benefits which cover every aspect of my recovery. so i hope this is what they mean about detachment. i'm learning tim... baby steps.... julie
Gina, Yep you got that right the other person is a man(LOL) If you ever get rid of your list make sure you let me know so I can make get him on another one.
Tim, 5 minutes after sex or even 2 is a little to long don't you think. Shantel
Tim, 5 minutes after sex or even 2 is a little to long don't you think. Shantel
Julie-That's all you can do.After reading your story,It looks to me that every decision you're making sounds healthy.
Just because we get sober does not mean we can immediately fix the wreakage of our past.Life doesn't work that way.
Detachment can mean self preservation.
The way I look at these things is that if we let our Higher Power guide us,the next right thing will always present itself.
Your husband may think he's humiliating you but when you get to the place where you can be free,he will then realize what a true gift he let slip away.
I believe in Karma and payback is always a b*tch.
Just because we get sober does not mean we can immediately fix the wreakage of our past.Life doesn't work that way.
Detachment can mean self preservation.
The way I look at these things is that if we let our Higher Power guide us,the next right thing will always present itself.
Your husband may think he's humiliating you but when you get to the place where you can be free,he will then realize what a true gift he let slip away.
I believe in Karma and payback is always a b*tch.
yes... the people on this board are so wonderful... and i have found so much help and progress from everyone here. THANK YOU EVERYONE!
but now i am worried that i have substituted one addiction for the other!!! lol!
all i want to do when i get home is immediatlely come sit down here for hours on end and read and post... my son is like mom!!!! your addicted!!! get off that computer! but i say no! I AM WORKING ON MY RECOVERY AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!
Sometimes i wonder though... my therapist says that i need to use this time as a reward! after i have done my responsibilities for the day than you can have computer time, damn now i am being treated like a child!!!! lol!!!
i love this forum, i look forward to talking to the friends i have made here, reading about what is going on in their lives, how the holidays went for them,
what they are doing to get well, its like having a meeting right here in my living room! and i can be in my jammies and not have to go outside today in 28 degree weather....! jewels
but now i am worried that i have substituted one addiction for the other!!! lol!
all i want to do when i get home is immediatlely come sit down here for hours on end and read and post... my son is like mom!!!! your addicted!!! get off that computer! but i say no! I AM WORKING ON MY RECOVERY AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!
Sometimes i wonder though... my therapist says that i need to use this time as a reward! after i have done my responsibilities for the day than you can have computer time, damn now i am being treated like a child!!!! lol!!!
i love this forum, i look forward to talking to the friends i have made here, reading about what is going on in their lives, how the holidays went for them,
what they are doing to get well, its like having a meeting right here in my living room! and i can be in my jammies and not have to go outside today in 28 degree weather....! jewels
Are we willing to be uncomfortable in order to make a change?discomfort sometimes equals freedom which puts it in a whole different perspective...now blaming others....what a HUGE waste of time.I do get the seatbelt thing..gotten 2 tickets and still feel claustrophobic with it on..."I'm choking"LOL...I do believe you have hit upon some good points here Sir Tim..although the roosters are crowing(Yeah...there are %$#&! roosters here.....Sharonn
Morning Jewels and Sharonn, Tim always hits on good points that make you think to much. That's why I try to avoid them (LOL)Shantel
