Everyone entitled to their opinion and how to try and stay clean....your in early clean time if I understand you properly. .so wishing you good luck and a good long clean time...no matter how you do it....
That post was so long and i don't remember what i wanted to comment on. Well i will say I'm not for or against the 12 step programs. One thing you said is about recovery and waking up and having an epiphany or something similar..i agree BUT will say i have had that happen many times stayed clean and eventually go back to something. I'm NOT saying that will necessarily happen..but for me has. Last time around i have succeeded this far of three years with one relapse of drinking which my first love. Felt guilty..didn't beat myself up and moved past. I guess part of my point is..yes redifine yourself..but that addiction will ALWAYS be somewhere in the brain. Dreams will tell you that. Anyway congratulations on your sobriety and keep going strong..and keep doing what works for you..
some of the stuff you said Kerry its like you pulled out of my head, we think on very similar way about addiction . i hope you stay clean forever and hope one day sooner rather then later you stop thinking about addition all together and live your life like it never happened.. i hope for this for all of us <3
Hi Mary and Bonnie
Mary yes I do tend to burble and it doesn't help that I type at 100wpm so that huge post only took a few minutes to type.
Congratulations on your recovery. Long may it last! Have you ever been to AA or NA or to a 12 step based rehab?
I agree with what you say in that i shouldn't become too arrogant. But I do feel different this time. I kind of always knew in my heart of hearts that my sobriety was temporary but this time it feels different.
Bonnie
I hope that I have found my feet as it were. I belive that having been part of na for so long that my thoughts on addiction have been someone elses ans only now am i starting to change that just so that I can keep doing the right thing and potentially help addicts in the future if I do decide that a career change is in order and I think it is.
Havee you been subjected to the AA way?
More power (hehe) to anyone who finds success in AA but in my experience those successes are very few and far between. For me, I believe that the reason for this is that AA guilts you into being sober. And in that sense the sobriety won't last... I was made to feel constant guilt during my stay at 12 step based rehab.
I went to a 12 step based rehab in the UK a couple of years ago and we were forced to go to meetings every day. I was withdrawing from heroin and methadone at the time and so not only was it difficult for me to sit in those meetings it was actually agonisingly painful. I don't know about other rehabs but this one had us start in clinic at 9.30am and finishing at 5.30pm then it was 35 minutes in the van to the house where we had to cook dinner on a rota basis, do our allocated housework and then travel 45 minutes to AA or NA meeting and 45 minutes back before collapsing into bed for lights out at 11. Somewhere in there we were supposed to find time to complete stepwork written exercises and lifestories as well. Now I am an active and energetic person but that routine killed me whilst going through methadone withdrawal. I was always being chastised in peer group and the counsellors were incessantly calling me lazy and I have to say I was given a hard time by a lot of the peers who were not opiate addicts and believed what the idiot counsellors were telling them. I felt like I was at primary school. I was told in clinic that I was faking the withdrawal for attention too because apparently methadone withdrawal doesn't last longer than 2 weeks. Hmmm.
I was denied any comfort meds apart from atarax and was constantly chastised for walking out of the nightly meetings by the counsellors, who were all ex heroin addicts for the most part so tbh their lack of empathy shocked me until I realised that this lack of empathy is the na way... no medication because apparently comfort meds are still cpassed as using and the lack of of empathy is apparently tough love. This stuff is drillednin so hard that one 18 year old young girl was refusing to take her asthma inhaler because shed noticed it containef alcohol. I've got to say that I can think of a million other options that would have ensured I stayed clean longer. I believe it cost 30k and I went through torture during those 6 weeks and if the harsh weekday regimen wasn't bad enough I thought never mind there's the weekend to look forward to... but low and behold I was dragged around a shopping centre every Saturday morning regardless of whether I wanted to go or not and on Sunday if you werent having a family visit you had to travel the 45 mins each way regardless... because you know, staffing is such a problem when paying the staff minimum wage and charging your clients upwards of 5k a week. Lol. You couldn't make this stuff up.
I relapsed several times and like a true addict kept going back to the same rehab facility... to be told that it was getting boring and that they couldn't do any more for me. I guess I didn't fit whatever idea they had of a cookie cutter addict but I had to lol when they said I was boring them keep coming back. I mean, not a good idea to try to persuade a repeat customer to stay away haha.
Im thinking of starting a thread for those who feel they need therapy to get over their experiences at 12 step based rehabs us for the lols!
Ooh another long post. Well what else am I gonna do when I can't sleep lmao!
I hope everyone is continuing to fight the good fight and that today not only brings sobriety but happiness and peace ro all.
Kerry
Mary yes I do tend to burble and it doesn't help that I type at 100wpm so that huge post only took a few minutes to type.
Congratulations on your recovery. Long may it last! Have you ever been to AA or NA or to a 12 step based rehab?
I agree with what you say in that i shouldn't become too arrogant. But I do feel different this time. I kind of always knew in my heart of hearts that my sobriety was temporary but this time it feels different.
Bonnie
I hope that I have found my feet as it were. I belive that having been part of na for so long that my thoughts on addiction have been someone elses ans only now am i starting to change that just so that I can keep doing the right thing and potentially help addicts in the future if I do decide that a career change is in order and I think it is.
Havee you been subjected to the AA way?
More power (hehe) to anyone who finds success in AA but in my experience those successes are very few and far between. For me, I believe that the reason for this is that AA guilts you into being sober. And in that sense the sobriety won't last... I was made to feel constant guilt during my stay at 12 step based rehab.
I went to a 12 step based rehab in the UK a couple of years ago and we were forced to go to meetings every day. I was withdrawing from heroin and methadone at the time and so not only was it difficult for me to sit in those meetings it was actually agonisingly painful. I don't know about other rehabs but this one had us start in clinic at 9.30am and finishing at 5.30pm then it was 35 minutes in the van to the house where we had to cook dinner on a rota basis, do our allocated housework and then travel 45 minutes to AA or NA meeting and 45 minutes back before collapsing into bed for lights out at 11. Somewhere in there we were supposed to find time to complete stepwork written exercises and lifestories as well. Now I am an active and energetic person but that routine killed me whilst going through methadone withdrawal. I was always being chastised in peer group and the counsellors were incessantly calling me lazy and I have to say I was given a hard time by a lot of the peers who were not opiate addicts and believed what the idiot counsellors were telling them. I felt like I was at primary school. I was told in clinic that I was faking the withdrawal for attention too because apparently methadone withdrawal doesn't last longer than 2 weeks. Hmmm.
I was denied any comfort meds apart from atarax and was constantly chastised for walking out of the nightly meetings by the counsellors, who were all ex heroin addicts for the most part so tbh their lack of empathy shocked me until I realised that this lack of empathy is the na way... no medication because apparently comfort meds are still cpassed as using and the lack of of empathy is apparently tough love. This stuff is drillednin so hard that one 18 year old young girl was refusing to take her asthma inhaler because shed noticed it containef alcohol. I've got to say that I can think of a million other options that would have ensured I stayed clean longer. I believe it cost 30k and I went through torture during those 6 weeks and if the harsh weekday regimen wasn't bad enough I thought never mind there's the weekend to look forward to... but low and behold I was dragged around a shopping centre every Saturday morning regardless of whether I wanted to go or not and on Sunday if you werent having a family visit you had to travel the 45 mins each way regardless... because you know, staffing is such a problem when paying the staff minimum wage and charging your clients upwards of 5k a week. Lol. You couldn't make this stuff up.
I relapsed several times and like a true addict kept going back to the same rehab facility... to be told that it was getting boring and that they couldn't do any more for me. I guess I didn't fit whatever idea they had of a cookie cutter addict but I had to lol when they said I was boring them keep coming back. I mean, not a good idea to try to persuade a repeat customer to stay away haha.
Im thinking of starting a thread for those who feel they need therapy to get over their experiences at 12 step based rehabs us for the lols!
Ooh another long post. Well what else am I gonna do when I can't sleep lmao!
I hope everyone is continuing to fight the good fight and that today not only brings sobriety but happiness and peace ro all.
Kerry
Kerry y only experience with NA was few meetings years ago, first group i was in was made of people who i knew fro the street and second as soon as meeting was over they all talked fro who and where to score , i think most of them were there because they had to out of different reasons for some food tea and out of cold was enough for others probation and court order and then you had those who for real were trying to get /stay clean. didnt feel comfortable to share , i am kind of private person and need time to feel ok to open up. Then i got the book 12 steps and after reading i knew i cant work with that firstly i couldn't imagine myself surrendering to higher power , then to think about myself as addict for rest of y life and in 20 years tie still to go to meetings where i would say Hi i am Bonnie I am addict just cant and wont work for me, i feel natural aversion towards that way of thinking ...plus i dont consider myself sick just because i was addicted to heroin as you said its all about behavioral therapy and changing way we think. I joined SMART recovery program online and going trough material they have , trying to apply those tools and i like it. Working on my triggers right now. After been addicted to heroin for 20 years on and off few months here and there and last 2 years clean i think i am doing ok ,my main problem is boredom so keeping myself busy as much as i an handle is key :) each to their own
Kerry..yes i have been to both aa and na but never enough to speak of experience (i never went on a regular basis) i did find i liked aa better...as na felt like one experience you mentioned. (people court ordered then talking to each other making new connects) aa felt like people WANTED to be there. So...as i can't speak for myself..i have seen many succeed. (yet when can anyone REALLY say they have succeeded?) anyone can fall back at any time obviously..with the program or without. So...if it's within... is it the programs fault?or the person saying 'f*** this' and just drinking coffee waiting until meeting is over? Or the person just wasn't ready and was going to happen either way. My boyfriend will have five years clean february...he was very involved..has stopped going. I recently asked if there was a particular reason..he said 'no' i left at that. I can tell you...while he's stayed sober with one slip about three years out. He was MUCH LESS of a d!ck when he was going to meetings..don't get me wrong he was still often one..but a smaller one? Ha. Well of course i wish he was still going but how f***ing hypocritical would that be of me right? I've watched someone i thought would never get clean do so (attending aa)...and hey if hypothetically it's trading an addiction for another like you said...well? Many do so getting clean whether it's biking..music..running..etc it's healthy right..as long as its not taking over your whole life and not enjoyable and benefititing the person anymore. As far as the girl and the inhaler...well nowhere in big book does it say stop taking any medications..actually i believe says DON'T stop. So yeah...there might be the a******* that look down on meds but thats THEIR problem..and shouldn't be the other persons. Again i am not for or against...whatever works. I believe saying aa is the only way is detrimental..but also believe saying they will fail you and not to try is equally as detrimental (probably more so imo) ok...I'm typed out
that is the thing, use whatever will work for you, any therapy or no therapy, any rehab, detox or none at all, any medication or cold turkey(never again hopefully) just if it helps to get clean and stay that way. We are not made of the same cloth , of course what was good for me it doesnt need to be good for your recovery but i am willing to try out anything really as long as its not rehab (had y own reasons why i cant leave London) ... so we go trough alll options we try we give up and again we search ... whatever i do , decide i have unconditional support from my husband and thta is for me best support i can have
Forgot to add most importantly something you said that is soooo far from true.. (though wish it was..lol) 'reovery is an event not a process' yes getting sober/clean is an event..but if recovery was an event we would just quit using/drinking and feel f***ing dandy. Now yeah some will say its a 'lifelong process' idk about all that..maybe for some and not others. It takes EVERYONE some time to learn to live without drugs..hence a process. (however long that process may be..all differs)
