How about you?
Yeah, that's what I learned in therapy yesterday.........it all goes round to I'm punishing myself...........every aspect of my life............and that took the turn to talk about drugs.........punishment.
Honestly, I felt like saying "Ummmmmmm, no that was one of the only things I ever did for my da*n self"..........that I LOVED..........and the therapist said "Yeah, I see how that worked out for ya".........good times......not to mention maybe ya wouldn't have all this other stuff.........if ya hadn't punished yourself by becoming a heroin addict.
Hmmmmmmm, what do you guys think?
I think there's something to it. In my case I reckon it's sort of wilful self sabotage. A kind of self injury. It's complex s***. But no-one is better at self punishment than me, and it's all a part of why I came an addict. No self love. No sense of nurturing oneself. It's something I've tried to work on, but it's not easy. If we don't care about ourselves, we don't even appreciate the hurt our actions cause to others, coz we can't believe that anybody cares enough to give a s***, unless it's giving us grief about our life choices.
So maybe it's something you should think about.
love
Diff xxx
So maybe it's something you should think about.
love
Diff xxx
huh it's something to think about. I do wish i had a therapist I know it would be of some benifit. It's crazy hard on me to not have ANY outlet no meetings no therapist really no kinda treatment. Several reason why that is the case only one being I brought it up to Rob he really thinks i don't need that stuff. "I think" me getting recovery support would be "to him" admitting i'm a addict!. He really don't like to talk about me as it relates to heroin.
Anyhow on to punishment at this moment NOPE i did not start heroin to be Bad TO myself. I honestly think I started it to relive stress and presure acually to give me a break to NUMB!. Turned out, to not be the smartest choice i've ever made. Sure worked out as a punishment. however still stands it was not started to punish me at all. I understand the thing about self punishment i think my mom's the QUEEN in that area. Me no I try hard to advoid being in unpleasent situations..... i resent having to be caring for others. My mom tries to be EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE she's held her best friends hand while she was dying. Sat in hospice by her faters side for days till he passed. Really would do whatever she can for anyone has a huge heart I see that as self punishment it HURTS her!.... she puts herself out for others ....gives more then she can lose. I'm nothing like that at all. Maybe i've got it twisted I can't see how i punish myself. I think ....My fault would be more in being way to selfish and even a little cold not being able to care enough about others. I do put me 1st i started because I LIKED IT.
Anyhow on to punishment at this moment NOPE i did not start heroin to be Bad TO myself. I honestly think I started it to relive stress and presure acually to give me a break to NUMB!. Turned out, to not be the smartest choice i've ever made. Sure worked out as a punishment. however still stands it was not started to punish me at all. I understand the thing about self punishment i think my mom's the QUEEN in that area. Me no I try hard to advoid being in unpleasent situations..... i resent having to be caring for others. My mom tries to be EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE she's held her best friends hand while she was dying. Sat in hospice by her faters side for days till he passed. Really would do whatever she can for anyone has a huge heart I see that as self punishment it HURTS her!.... she puts herself out for others ....gives more then she can lose. I'm nothing like that at all. Maybe i've got it twisted I can't see how i punish myself. I think ....My fault would be more in being way to selfish and even a little cold not being able to care enough about others. I do put me 1st i started because I LIKED IT.
Dear Bryn,
All I can say is that we love you very much and think you're an awesome person...very caring and compassionate. Do you see that? I hope so!
Love,
Susan
All I can say is that we love you very much and think you're an awesome person...very caring and compassionate. Do you see that? I hope so!
Love,
Susan
Food for thought, right?
Weird how each of us is so different yet we all were in the same boat.
Self-sabatoge is right Diff, yep.........and ZG, I understand exactly what ya mean about Rob and him thinking any kind of therapy will actually sort of LABEL ya...........it will make it REAL...........and he don't see you as a heroin addict period.............and how ya describe yourself..........he sees ya can kick a*s taking care of you...........how tough ya are you can handle it all yourself........yeah, I grew up with that.....NO Doctors, no therapy, no excuses, no weakness, no, no............you do that well ya just made yourself what you are...........if that makes sense.......someone will write it down........it will be documented.......I think you would dig it, really ZG.......and it's for YOU!
Maybe too you are how ya are cause you saw your mom how she was......gave, gave..........I learned that too..........EXTREMES.........you may subconsciously clashed against how your mom was and went the other way.....I think that's what Tres's daughter does.
Alas what do I know?
Susan, YOU.........you better never punush Susan cause she's one of my fave people ever...........a person who was immediately kind to me.......looks to the positives..........so don't be mean to Susan...........or else...LOL!
Thanks my clique.........good stuff i think........thought provoking.....I almost punished me today.......got about a quarter way there......I ain't doing it.
Weird how each of us is so different yet we all were in the same boat.
Self-sabatoge is right Diff, yep.........and ZG, I understand exactly what ya mean about Rob and him thinking any kind of therapy will actually sort of LABEL ya...........it will make it REAL...........and he don't see you as a heroin addict period.............and how ya describe yourself..........he sees ya can kick a*s taking care of you...........how tough ya are you can handle it all yourself........yeah, I grew up with that.....NO Doctors, no therapy, no excuses, no weakness, no, no............you do that well ya just made yourself what you are...........if that makes sense.......someone will write it down........it will be documented.......I think you would dig it, really ZG.......and it's for YOU!
Maybe too you are how ya are cause you saw your mom how she was......gave, gave..........I learned that too..........EXTREMES.........you may subconsciously clashed against how your mom was and went the other way.....I think that's what Tres's daughter does.
Alas what do I know?
Susan, YOU.........you better never punush Susan cause she's one of my fave people ever...........a person who was immediately kind to me.......looks to the positives..........so don't be mean to Susan...........or else...LOL!
Thanks my clique.........good stuff i think........thought provoking.....I almost punished me today.......got about a quarter way there......I ain't doing it.
This giving thing, it's quite an issue really. It's a symptom of something much deeper. I am born giver, a born nurturer, I put everybody else before myself, I collect waifs and strays, I look after everybody, excpet myself. The bottom line? I need to be needed. Any sense of self worth I have is reflected by those people who rely on me. I do EVERYTHING for my boyfriend. I organise his finances, his correspondance, I run his house, I pay his bills, I spend so much time looking after him. I'm like an unpaid PA, cook, and bottle washer and it's like a full time job, especially being a mammy too. If I have a friend who's going through a hard time, I go well out of my way to be there. If I can make myself useful in any way to anybody, I'll do it. It's a symptom of borderline personality disorder. Interestingly, Princess Diana had the same diagnosis as me, so I'm in good company - but it's a wooly diagnosis, and you get many types of borderlines.
Borderlines tend to be needy people. I feel totally lost if nobody needs me. I can only feel self love in the form of how I think others perceive me. Basically, if I am needed, then I feel OK, but if there's nobody relying on me, then I feel utterly worthless. I carry this round with me, and it's like a bottomless pain in my soul. That's where heroin came in. It took away that pain, but ended up adding to it. I used to self harm something terrible, but stopped when heroin took over. When I was in the process of getting clean, I had emotional pain that I found so hard to bear, coz I had no way of salving that pain. I remember having a row with my boyfriend, and he was very hurtful to me. I felt so bad, I went out and scored. But my motivation wasn't even the drug. I wasn't fussed about that. I was thinking "You think you can hurt me? I can make you look like a complete amateur - I can hurt myself in ways you can't even fathom. I can go to a completely different world to you, and disappear and you'll never find me again..."
Maybe that's why I ended up with such a sadistic b******. I am a masochist, after all. Right early on, before the violence started, before I even moved in with him, I knew he was a sexual sadist, and got off on inflicting pain when we were having sex. He'd hold me down and do what he liked to me, and even when I asked him to stop, he'd just carry on. He'd strangle me, bite me, have sex in painful positions etc. And somewhere inside, I found the fear a bit thrilling. That's a hard thing to admit, coz it crosses over to the violence. I reckon there is a part of me that gets off on being smacked about.
Hey Bryn, you've opened a right can of worms here kiddo. This is getting deep...
love
Diff xxx
And as for heroin
Borderlines tend to be needy people. I feel totally lost if nobody needs me. I can only feel self love in the form of how I think others perceive me. Basically, if I am needed, then I feel OK, but if there's nobody relying on me, then I feel utterly worthless. I carry this round with me, and it's like a bottomless pain in my soul. That's where heroin came in. It took away that pain, but ended up adding to it. I used to self harm something terrible, but stopped when heroin took over. When I was in the process of getting clean, I had emotional pain that I found so hard to bear, coz I had no way of salving that pain. I remember having a row with my boyfriend, and he was very hurtful to me. I felt so bad, I went out and scored. But my motivation wasn't even the drug. I wasn't fussed about that. I was thinking "You think you can hurt me? I can make you look like a complete amateur - I can hurt myself in ways you can't even fathom. I can go to a completely different world to you, and disappear and you'll never find me again..."
Maybe that's why I ended up with such a sadistic b******. I am a masochist, after all. Right early on, before the violence started, before I even moved in with him, I knew he was a sexual sadist, and got off on inflicting pain when we were having sex. He'd hold me down and do what he liked to me, and even when I asked him to stop, he'd just carry on. He'd strangle me, bite me, have sex in painful positions etc. And somewhere inside, I found the fear a bit thrilling. That's a hard thing to admit, coz it crosses over to the violence. I reckon there is a part of me that gets off on being smacked about.
Hey Bryn, you've opened a right can of worms here kiddo. This is getting deep...
love
Diff xxx
And as for heroin
| QUOTE |
| "You think you can hurt me? I can make you look like a complete amateur - I can hurt myself in ways you can't even fathom. I can go to a completely different world to you, and disappear and you'll never find me again..." |
This really hit close to home. My daughter was like this in active addiction. Sometimes she shares with me experiences she had while using and last week she told me about a young man she was with who used to burn her. I knew she was a cutter and she had told me that he had burned her, but she said she had asked him to. This time in the telling she said she asked him to stop, but he wouldn't because he said she wasn't worth listening to. I wanted to cry even though this was two and half years ago. My girl thought so little of herself that she thought she deserved this. Sometimes all the sharing is wonderful, sometimes it just scares me.
Bryn, I missed a lot of your posts while I was on the road, but I do want to talk to you on another thread.
Peace to all~MomNMore
Wow!
I just now caught up on this thread. SO MUCH I related to...the self sabotage, need to be needed, giving when I had nothing to give, putting others first, being the stoic, strong shoulder, self sacrafice. All of that. What I felt in addition so many times (this is hard for me to admit) was resentment toward the people I gave up so much for when they weren't appropriately appreciative. And because I am always veiwed as the "solid rock" I found it very difficult to ask for or accept help when I needed it. Further, I'd gone to such lengths to show how independent I was that nobody recognized when I was in trouble and I'd be pissed because no one was offering to help me. When they did, I'd just refuse the assistance. Just a bit phsycotic (sp?) wouldn't you say? I know this behavior is common but, Jesus....It's tiresome!
Hugs to everyone!
~Callie~
I just now caught up on this thread. SO MUCH I related to...the self sabotage, need to be needed, giving when I had nothing to give, putting others first, being the stoic, strong shoulder, self sacrafice. All of that. What I felt in addition so many times (this is hard for me to admit) was resentment toward the people I gave up so much for when they weren't appropriately appreciative. And because I am always veiwed as the "solid rock" I found it very difficult to ask for or accept help when I needed it. Further, I'd gone to such lengths to show how independent I was that nobody recognized when I was in trouble and I'd be pissed because no one was offering to help me. When they did, I'd just refuse the assistance. Just a bit phsycotic (sp?) wouldn't you say? I know this behavior is common but, Jesus....It's tiresome!
Hugs to everyone!
~Callie~
hi everyone , i believe i started takin drugs as a means 2 overcome myinner shyness.i have always been quite outgoin but deep down have always been withdrawn . sounds odd but that's the only way i can describe it . drugs came as an escape also . went thru the alphabet of drugs but got stuck with heroin . nowadays i try my hardest 2 warn people about doing heroin .i hate this " just say no " crap . when i started doin heroin it was like " was that it " so straight away i thought everyone is wrong . heroin isn't all it's made out 2 b . perhaps if the warnings from the goverment were more like , " it's very sneaky , it doesn't hit u in the face , it just slowly wraps it's hands around u and eventually doesn't let go". if we r strong enuff we can overcome it ..sorry , just felt like venting..
Heroin may have been a form of self-punishment, but I think that's a bit simplistic. There are a whole slew of reasons people involve themselves in drugs. (And before I continue let me confess that I am more than just the mother of an addict in this regard, but it's so far in the distant past that while it shaped me to some extent it no longer has the power to define me - DOC: cocaine) For some it's the feeling that they are somehow 'different' and will have more control than those sorry addicts have over the drug - a form of ego I guess. For others it's an escape or a form of entertainment (again, they think they'll have the control). But NO ONE goes into it thinking they'll be addicted. Sure self-punishment, maybe, but that doesn't tell every story, or the whole story. Just my opinion since you asked.
Yeah some of you ladies sound a whole lot like my mom "she is a recovering drinker/pill user". It always made me so sad/mad for her. I would see how her being so kind to everyone was always doing somthing BAD to her. She has to have someone to dwell on. I told Rob I think she LIKES my brother being a h addict because it gives her something to do. My brother is disable "had brain surgery", "blind totally in one eye" i think she enjoys always looking after Kevin. Making sure kevin eats, pays bills, takes a bath exc. She lives with a mean old drinking scum of a man her bf. She acually mentally needs him my brother and i call him "her bf" her heroin. She loves to care,,,, makes her feel needed, wanted, loved. She cares about everyone makes a great friend. Yes Bryn, seeing my mom that way made me want to never be like that. I don't give out ANYTHING freely it must be earned. I won't give no body the shirt off my back. Mom gets so mad i don't call her i don't let her into my world. She has the need to care at the same time that CONTROLS the people she thinks she's helping. You know the hand you hold is the hand that holds ya down.
What a depressing thread.
YOU started it! And now just look! Everyone else is all throwing a woe is me pity party and you've gallavanted off onto the Bechams!
I'm glad to see you're in a rip-roaring good mood Hope you have yourself a fabulous weekend!
~Callie~
I'm glad to see you're in a rip-roaring good mood Hope you have yourself a fabulous weekend!
~Callie~
It ain't that depressing! I'd rather be a giver than a taker. Makes me happy anyway. What goes around comes around. I have learned to say no to people to some extent, and don't let folks take the piss like I used to. And I do believe tha those people who never give, and are just out for themselves get bitten on the arse by their own selfishness.
love
Diff xxx
love
Diff xxx
