Hi, everyone
I am afraid my son might be slipping. He's very tired at times and then not sleeping right at night. He's craving and eating sweets when normally he doesn't have much of a liking for them. When he was using, he couldn't get enough either. He seems more irritable but he seems to be helping around the house more. Please, please pray for him. I HOPE I'm wrong!
Love,
Susan
Dear Susan,
When i saw the title of your latest thread...my heart sank...oh no i am thinking...Susan usually writes about upbeat things or calls our attention to the suffering of others..(everybody's elses but her own)....
Please don't let it be about her son...i sighed before i read your actual post. It could be just nothing or it might mean the start of everything again....all we usually have at this point to go by is that old 'gut' feeling..and sad to say from personal experience on my part anyway..that in the end it usually proved me right 'tho oft times i chose to ignore it.
Okay i was dealing with a much older heroin addict than your son and he has been at it for about 30 years to date....but i remember those subtle signs of using....the sweet craving was a biggie..
I never was really clear regarding whether your son actually opted for the painkillers after his accident...of course you were the one that was to dole them out to him. I do remember warning you about the possible 'slipperiness' and potential danger of that situation but i don't know if your son actually took the pills under your close supervision in the end...
I too hope that it isn't what you think it is...but i used to
hope that a lot too in the past with my ex bf..BUT
love MARY
When i saw the title of your latest thread...my heart sank...oh no i am thinking...Susan usually writes about upbeat things or calls our attention to the suffering of others..(everybody's elses but her own)....
Please don't let it be about her son...i sighed before i read your actual post. It could be just nothing or it might mean the start of everything again....all we usually have at this point to go by is that old 'gut' feeling..and sad to say from personal experience on my part anyway..that in the end it usually proved me right 'tho oft times i chose to ignore it.
Okay i was dealing with a much older heroin addict than your son and he has been at it for about 30 years to date....but i remember those subtle signs of using....the sweet craving was a biggie..
I never was really clear regarding whether your son actually opted for the painkillers after his accident...of course you were the one that was to dole them out to him. I do remember warning you about the possible 'slipperiness' and potential danger of that situation but i don't know if your son actually took the pills under your close supervision in the end...
I too hope that it isn't what you think it is...but i used to
hope that a lot too in the past with my ex bf..BUT
love MARY
Dear Susan,
I really, REALLY hope your wrong...... for you.... your family.....and above all for your son.
Thinking of you x
I really, REALLY hope your wrong...... for you.... your family.....and above all for your son.
Thinking of you x
Thank you for your replies Mary and Sashab. I PRAY I'm wrong! I have warned him that if he is slipping the first thing to go will be the car we saved for him last time. He has a 1972 Mustang Mach I that he can't even afford to finish because of all the debt from his drinking and drugs. It was so important to him that we saved it from being repossessed last time. We took out a loan on our home for his maxed credit cards and he's been paying on that since he was finally able to get a job. I told him the car would go to pay off some of that loan if he doesn't stick with recovery. I told him we're not doing that to be mean but to give him incentive to stay clean if it means anything to him. He calmly said, "Ok, mom. I understand but you have absolutely nothing to worry about."
About the pain pills....the doctor never prescribed them for him because of the drug problem. My son has a lot of discomfort and he's still limping. The swelling is still there so I suspect he tore cartilage. He was able to walk on it last time he tore it, it was just uncomfortable. I SUSPECT he might have gone and gotten some pain medication on his own...which was my fear. I thought he took the news from the doctor a little too well. That's PROBABLY because he just thought to himself...I'll get some myself. I HOPE I'M WRONG!!!!
One day at a time! Please keep the prayers coming! Oh how I don't want to go through this again and I don't want to sell his car, but I will.
Love,
Susan
About the pain pills....the doctor never prescribed them for him because of the drug problem. My son has a lot of discomfort and he's still limping. The swelling is still there so I suspect he tore cartilage. He was able to walk on it last time he tore it, it was just uncomfortable. I SUSPECT he might have gone and gotten some pain medication on his own...which was my fear. I thought he took the news from the doctor a little too well. That's PROBABLY because he just thought to himself...I'll get some myself. I HOPE I'M WRONG!!!!
One day at a time! Please keep the prayers coming! Oh how I don't want to go through this again and I don't want to sell his car, but I will.
Love,
Susan
Hi Susan
First of all thanks for your concern and prayers. The situation with SaNDy and I will work out one way or another.
I think your son might be just going through a personal issue that has him in a depressing or melencoly mood. You probably shouldnt jump to conclusions yet. Give him the benifit of the doubt.
Unfourtunetly,the reality is ,not many heroin addicts ,go to rehab, come out and never use again.
However,it sounds like your son was one of the ones who worked hard at his recovery and was successful .Its hard to figure with the few things you,ve noticed,because they are such common things. You,ll know the real signs when you see them- - as you have before. Can you talk to him & maybe ask him if something is bothering him? You certainly dont want to accuse or put him in a spot where he feels backed into a corner. He probably feels like he has gotten your trust back and he doesnt want to lose that.
Its a tough situation- - Try not to make yourself crazy
love
jack
First of all thanks for your concern and prayers. The situation with SaNDy and I will work out one way or another.
I think your son might be just going through a personal issue that has him in a depressing or melencoly mood. You probably shouldnt jump to conclusions yet. Give him the benifit of the doubt.
Unfourtunetly,the reality is ,not many heroin addicts ,go to rehab, come out and never use again.
However,it sounds like your son was one of the ones who worked hard at his recovery and was successful .Its hard to figure with the few things you,ve noticed,because they are such common things. You,ll know the real signs when you see them- - as you have before. Can you talk to him & maybe ask him if something is bothering him? You certainly dont want to accuse or put him in a spot where he feels backed into a corner. He probably feels like he has gotten your trust back and he doesnt want to lose that.
Its a tough situation- - Try not to make yourself crazy
love
jack
Thanks so much for the words of wisdom, Jack. I needed to hear them. I KNOW I'm not handling this well. How fast the nightmares come back after you've been through this before!
I will try to do better.
Love,
Susan
I will try to do better.
Love,
Susan
Susan I am so sorry to hear you are worried like that.
I'll pray for your son.
That injury really threw coal into the fire. Even, and I pray too he isn't using it still is painful, and I personally doubt he would go back on heroin.
Hang on, and like Jack said talk to him. If he tells the truth I would say I wasn't going to completely take his car, but he'll have to show he's alright.
I don't know what else to say, Susan. I think Jack is right though.
I'll pray for your son.
That injury really threw coal into the fire. Even, and I pray too he isn't using it still is painful, and I personally doubt he would go back on heroin.
Hang on, and like Jack said talk to him. If he tells the truth I would say I wasn't going to completely take his car, but he'll have to show he's alright.
I don't know what else to say, Susan. I think Jack is right though.
Hello ..Susan..very sorry to hear of the predicament..your son&yerself may be in.Again all i can say is follow what Jack the street corner warrior said..hold tight&try to not obsess about real or imagined behaviour..hopefully nothing will come to fruition..just a phase as they say.My thoughts are with you&yer son..keep us posted..take care..Davey
Susan, I know your fear and I understand your pain. I hope your gut instinct is wrong.
From my point of view, my gut has been usually right...I am just saying what I have experienced. It doesn't mean it is the same with you.
We always have to go back to step one on this...we are powerless over their use except for prayer, which is powerful. Everytime you pray something happens. I know that you have lots of faith Susan.
This may be where he needs to go, if he indeed is going there, before he totally submits to his powerlessness. This is what I have come to. It is so hard as a mother not to obsess...not to "do" something. They have a walk, a journey just like us. The more we push, the more we interfere, the worse it gets. We can only put up boundaries and take care of ourselves and be very clear on what we will not permit, accept or tolerate.
To tell you the truth I was doing some of this already this morning. My son got paid yesterday...ect. ect. I made a few calls to his grandfather's house, no answer. I told myself that I was going to live today for me. I don't have a gut feeling today, just this obsession that interferes with my living my life.
The only person I can change is me. My son has the seeds planted, has experienced when he uses his life becomes unmangeable, has experienced that when he does the next right thing, life although has ups and downs but he gets blessings and good things happen. Those are his lessons, his life. As a mom, real tough to separate from that but it's the only way without becoming sick myself.
Praying for you sweet Susan....Gail
From my point of view, my gut has been usually right...I am just saying what I have experienced. It doesn't mean it is the same with you.
We always have to go back to step one on this...we are powerless over their use except for prayer, which is powerful. Everytime you pray something happens. I know that you have lots of faith Susan.
This may be where he needs to go, if he indeed is going there, before he totally submits to his powerlessness. This is what I have come to. It is so hard as a mother not to obsess...not to "do" something. They have a walk, a journey just like us. The more we push, the more we interfere, the worse it gets. We can only put up boundaries and take care of ourselves and be very clear on what we will not permit, accept or tolerate.
To tell you the truth I was doing some of this already this morning. My son got paid yesterday...ect. ect. I made a few calls to his grandfather's house, no answer. I told myself that I was going to live today for me. I don't have a gut feeling today, just this obsession that interferes with my living my life.
The only person I can change is me. My son has the seeds planted, has experienced when he uses his life becomes unmangeable, has experienced that when he does the next right thing, life although has ups and downs but he gets blessings and good things happen. Those are his lessons, his life. As a mom, real tough to separate from that but it's the only way without becoming sick myself.
Praying for you sweet Susan....Gail
Hi Susan, so sorry to hear that you are worried about Harry again. You have done all the right things throughout his trials and tribulations. You let him face the consequences of his actions, but supported him throughout. You have earned the right to know the truth. I know you have a very good relationship with your son and although I understand your reservations (bless your heart!) about confronting him, coz you don't want to accuse him, but you should be able to tell him that you are worried without him blowing a gasket. He must know he is very lucky to have such a supportive mother as you, and all addicts in his situation know that they have lost the right to unconditional trust. I know you are tactful enough to let him know you are concerned without making an outright accusation. As Jack said, don't automatically jump to conclusions, but you need to know the truth for your own peace of mind.
Something is obviously not right, or you wouldn't be worried. It could be he is feeling depressed and out of sorts, and if that is the case, then it's better you know coz then you can help him deal with it. If he is using again, then you need to catch it now, before it takes hold again. Tell him that you've noticed he isn't his normal self, and you are worried. Depression is common in recovering addicts, and can be a trigger to use. He knows what you've been through with him, and he'll understand you are worried. Addicts need to be pro-active. That's one thing experience has taught me. You need to catch any triggers early and deal with them. Sitting around worrying won't help you or him. So have a think about the best way to broach the subject without causing arguments, and let him know that you've noticed something isn't right. Whatever is wrong, you can't help him if you don't know about it. Is he having any counselling or professional help? If he feels uncomfortable talking to you about it then maybe he can talk to someone else. One thing you can be sure of is that he doesn't want the hell of active addiction again, and if he is on thin ice, then he may well be grateful of a mothers intuition to help him to solid ground again.
I hate to think of you worrying and feeling sick with nerves over what might be going on with him. You need to know the truth, and he owes you the truth.
love as always
Diff xxxx
Something is obviously not right, or you wouldn't be worried. It could be he is feeling depressed and out of sorts, and if that is the case, then it's better you know coz then you can help him deal with it. If he is using again, then you need to catch it now, before it takes hold again. Tell him that you've noticed he isn't his normal self, and you are worried. Depression is common in recovering addicts, and can be a trigger to use. He knows what you've been through with him, and he'll understand you are worried. Addicts need to be pro-active. That's one thing experience has taught me. You need to catch any triggers early and deal with them. Sitting around worrying won't help you or him. So have a think about the best way to broach the subject without causing arguments, and let him know that you've noticed something isn't right. Whatever is wrong, you can't help him if you don't know about it. Is he having any counselling or professional help? If he feels uncomfortable talking to you about it then maybe he can talk to someone else. One thing you can be sure of is that he doesn't want the hell of active addiction again, and if he is on thin ice, then he may well be grateful of a mothers intuition to help him to solid ground again.
I hate to think of you worrying and feeling sick with nerves over what might be going on with him. You need to know the truth, and he owes you the truth.
love as always
Diff xxxx
Thanks, everyone, for all your thoughts, words of wisdom, and most of all your prayers. He has had two good days of nothing weird. Thank God! We all went out to dinner for his dad's birthday and a tooth that has been having problems (and he was waiting until he has benefits to take care of it - which he doesn't have yet) decided to give him even more pain. We have appointments to get our teeth cleaned tomorrow so I'm sure the dentist will have some guidance for us to get it taken care of. Hopefully he can save it! We offered to take care of it before but he kept saying, "I want to wait until I have benefits." If it's not one thing, it's another that's giving him pain!
I found out the other night that his x contacted him about 2 weeks ago. Apparently she is using again (the reason she had an accident months back - I read it in the paper) and she needed a place to live (and probably someone to supply her drugs again). My son told her he didn't have any place for her. Hopefully she hasn't been pestering. The girl he is dating now is a real sweetheart. Hopefully he can see the difference!
Please keep the prayers coming! I'll keep you posted.
Love,
Susan
I found out the other night that his x contacted him about 2 weeks ago. Apparently she is using again (the reason she had an accident months back - I read it in the paper) and she needed a place to live (and probably someone to supply her drugs again). My son told her he didn't have any place for her. Hopefully she hasn't been pestering. The girl he is dating now is a real sweetheart. Hopefully he can see the difference!
Please keep the prayers coming! I'll keep you posted.
Love,
Susan
Hi Susan, it's good that he's got a nice girlfriend. I know that NAers bang on about not getting involved with anybody too soon into recovery, but I personally thinks that's unrealistic and unhelpful in many ways. Having someone who's not into drugs to spend your time with, and make plans with is a definate bonus. OK if the person you get involved with is a complete nightmare (yes, yes, I know!) then it can backfire, but despite all my relationship problems, the fact that he's not into drugs has helped keep me clean.
Glad things seem to be a bit more relaxed with you.
love
Diff xxx
Glad things seem to be a bit more relaxed with you.
love
Diff xxx
Hi, Diff
My son did try to keep from having a relationship for quite some time. The problem with that, for him, is that he LOVES having a social life so that put him at the bars more often. Since he's with this girl, they will often rent a movie and relax here for the evening. He has his furniture, TV, and surround system set up in our basement.
Thanks so much for your concern. One day at a time!
How are things coming along with your housing?
Love,
Susan
My son did try to keep from having a relationship for quite some time. The problem with that, for him, is that he LOVES having a social life so that put him at the bars more often. Since he's with this girl, they will often rent a movie and relax here for the evening. He has his furniture, TV, and surround system set up in our basement.
Thanks so much for your concern. One day at a time!
How are things coming along with your housing?
Love,
Susan
Susan, Got your son in my prayers.
It's good he told you about the ex also. Good sign.
Hope the teeth are O.K.
Hope your husband had a nice Birthday. My mom is a Scorpio. Unfortunately on her Birthday she got shoved. Had cops at her house. Now is in the hospital hooked up to machines.
That ain't right. The little lousy creep of a kid saw the ambulance leave with police escort. This is after her father was slamming my door with a bat. Cops again. He comes back with her. TO GET HER STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HER STUFF!!!!!!!
My brother, friend, and another cop were in here when she went to get HER STUFF, and she kept asking where her Ipod is. My mom is in the hospital and she wanted her Ipod. If I knew where it was I'd smash it and toss it out the window. What a little lousy spoiled ugly ingrate.
It's good he told you about the ex also. Good sign.
Hope the teeth are O.K.
Hope your husband had a nice Birthday. My mom is a Scorpio. Unfortunately on her Birthday she got shoved. Had cops at her house. Now is in the hospital hooked up to machines.
That ain't right. The little lousy creep of a kid saw the ambulance leave with police escort. This is after her father was slamming my door with a bat. Cops again. He comes back with her. TO GET HER STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HER STUFF!!!!!!!
My brother, friend, and another cop were in here when she went to get HER STUFF, and she kept asking where her Ipod is. My mom is in the hospital and she wanted her Ipod. If I knew where it was I'd smash it and toss it out the window. What a little lousy spoiled ugly ingrate.
Hi, everyone
Well unfortunately I was right about my son doing some sort of drug. I found a cellophane bag. He finally admitted to taking Coke. He said he's not hooked, he's only done it twice (that's how often I was suspicious), and said he did it out of boredom and didn't particularly like it. He said he'd stop and I shouldn't worry. Please pray for him!
Love,
Susan
Well unfortunately I was right about my son doing some sort of drug. I found a cellophane bag. He finally admitted to taking Coke. He said he's not hooked, he's only done it twice (that's how often I was suspicious), and said he did it out of boredom and didn't particularly like it. He said he'd stop and I shouldn't worry. Please pray for him!
Love,
Susan
Hi Susan, glad you got to the bottom of it. Don't freak out or get too worried. I know people do get coke habits, but it's not like heroin. Cocaine isn't physically addictive - yes some people do get psychologically addicted, but it's a whole different ball game to heroin. I'll admit to doing a bit of cocaine from time to time (before I was pregnant - I haven't felt the urge to give my unborn child a hit of Cuban flake!) and it was always something I could take or leave, and would only bother with it about twice a year. One thing you should watch out for, and I'm not sure if this applies to your son, coz I don't know whether he was a smoker, snorter or IV user like myself, but when cocaine is injected, it magnifies the hit a millionfold, and that can be a very addictive feeling. And it also brings back the whole needle fixation thing. Don't want to scare you, but I think you need the information. I have found that since being pregnant, I've started dreaming a lot more about drugs, I think because I have a reason why I can't just pick up if I want to, and my naughty little addict within is having a bit of a subconscious strop about that. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that cocaine has been a significant feature of those dreams. The addict within often looks for other ways to get out of her cage, without us really understanding what's going on, and my addict within obviously sees cocaine as a bit of a weak spot with me, and tries to use it. Cocaine is often seen as a more socially acceptable drug than heroin, which is universally regarded as a dirty drug. You can go out and mix with "regular" folks, and find out that they use cocaine recreationally. But the person who has an addiction must be very careful, because it's debatable whether we can use any hard drug "recreationally", because of the ingrained responses we have to using drugs, particularly powders.
Cocaine is very "moreish", in an way that heroin isn't. You have a hit of heroin, you nod out, feel all blissed up etc, then when it wears off, the heroin addict will then have some more. With coke, you can have hit after hit, coz it is quite a shortlived high, particularly if you're using freebase crack. And it is dangerous ground for the heroin addict, because coke leaves you with a "wired" feeling, which can be unpleasant, and in my heroin days, if I used coke, when the coke had run out, I'd make sure I had some heroin to get rid of the wired feeling, and make me comfortable again. One can lead to the other.
I'm just giving you the facts the way I see them, but please don't panic, coz like I said before, lot's of people do have a once in a blue moon hit of coke, and it never leads anywhere. And for better or worse, I do include myself in that group, or at least I used to before I fell pregnant.
take care my dear
love
diff xxx
Cocaine is very "moreish", in an way that heroin isn't. You have a hit of heroin, you nod out, feel all blissed up etc, then when it wears off, the heroin addict will then have some more. With coke, you can have hit after hit, coz it is quite a shortlived high, particularly if you're using freebase crack. And it is dangerous ground for the heroin addict, because coke leaves you with a "wired" feeling, which can be unpleasant, and in my heroin days, if I used coke, when the coke had run out, I'd make sure I had some heroin to get rid of the wired feeling, and make me comfortable again. One can lead to the other.
I'm just giving you the facts the way I see them, but please don't panic, coz like I said before, lot's of people do have a once in a blue moon hit of coke, and it never leads anywhere. And for better or worse, I do include myself in that group, or at least I used to before I fell pregnant.
take care my dear
love
diff xxx
Dear Diff,
Thanks for the information. I did see one thing different this time then the other (with heroin) and that was irritability. What I did see in common was the energy, insomnia, dilated pupils, and fatigue. I'm still up (can't sleep) so obviously I have relapsed too (letting his life and his choices interfere with mine). One day at a time!
I will continue to pray for your struggles too.
Love,
Susan
Thanks for the information. I did see one thing different this time then the other (with heroin) and that was irritability. What I did see in common was the energy, insomnia, dilated pupils, and fatigue. I'm still up (can't sleep) so obviously I have relapsed too (letting his life and his choices interfere with mine). One day at a time!
I will continue to pray for your struggles too.
Love,
Susan
Hi Susan
Sorry for the bad news you recently got.I dont know where your from,but where I am ,cocaine doesnt come in cellophane bags- but of course it could.
They usually come in a little plastic bags or a vial. It keeps the drug from getting wet or stuck and then disolved I guess.
Like diff alluded to> cocaine might seem more acceptable on the surface, because is is usually sniffed and is really not addicting physically.
Heroin usually(in the states) comes in cellophane bags(or ballons). If you can smell or taste it -its very bitter. Cocaine will leave a numbing feeling on your tounge.
Again dont jump to wild assumsions ,at least he spoke to you when confronted.
People that has a lot of stress or pain, usually dont change thier DOC to coke from heroin, heroin addicts are picky when it comes to thier escape-
Be concerned and supportive-keep on it.. You know all about enabling and the things you shouldnt do.
allthe best- -if there is anything we can help you with -just ask
All of us on this board know your story > feel your pain and apprehensiveness
Stay level
much love
jack
Sorry for the bad news you recently got.I dont know where your from,but where I am ,cocaine doesnt come in cellophane bags- but of course it could.
They usually come in a little plastic bags or a vial. It keeps the drug from getting wet or stuck and then disolved I guess.
Like diff alluded to> cocaine might seem more acceptable on the surface, because is is usually sniffed and is really not addicting physically.
Heroin usually(in the states) comes in cellophane bags(or ballons). If you can smell or taste it -its very bitter. Cocaine will leave a numbing feeling on your tounge.
Again dont jump to wild assumsions ,at least he spoke to you when confronted.
People that has a lot of stress or pain, usually dont change thier DOC to coke from heroin, heroin addicts are picky when it comes to thier escape-
Be concerned and supportive-keep on it.. You know all about enabling and the things you shouldnt do.
allthe best- -if there is anything we can help you with -just ask
All of us on this board know your story > feel your pain and apprehensiveness
Stay level
much love
jack
Thanks, Jack. It's not what I wanted to hear but I NEED to know what I'm dealing with here. I'm going to try to find the cello again so see what I can find out. What you said makes sense but I never would have known if you didn't tell me. I appreciate that. I hope and pray it's not the heroin again!
Love,
Susan
Love,
Susan
Susan, So sorry to hear about your son...I've been following your story, learning from you and your journey. I just wanted to let you know my coke did come in cellophane bags and I did pick up a physical addiction from it because it is assumed that my Dealer was mixing something in it maybe a little H or M to keep us (his drug fiends) coming back ~ for 28 years for me....I got pretty sick from alcohol withdrawal but my coke withdrawal was kinda like the flu if I didn't get it by 4:00 pm everday. I'm again so sorry...it's all so tough! Keepin' you guys in my prayers...
