Hi, everyone
My son admitted to me tonight that he has gone from vicodin to percocet to oxycontin to heroin but said he's not taking nearly what he was up to before. He said that he started taking it because of the knee pain. He had been clean for about 1 1/2 years. He said he's been trying for over a month to get in to the only suboxone doctor we know of in the Harrisburg, PA area (Dr. Fierer). He had gotton suboxone from him before for a short time. They told him he had to be put on a long waiting list. He checked into what detox would cost (because he doesn't have medical insurance) and they said about $2,300. He told his girlfriend that he's been trying to detox but hasn't been able to make it through (that's the profuse sweating we've seen on a few occasions). He doesn't want to lose his job so he said he's going to try to detox using vicodin. Any suggestions, advice, or information would be appreciated. He told me that he did have methadone offered to him and he didn't feel he needed to go to that and knew it was an unreliable source (the person might need to use it and he'd be stuck without any). He told me he hasn't done coke or meth either.
Thanks so much. At least he's talking and admitting. That's a small step in the right direction.
Love,
Susan
--------------------
I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry, Susan.
This disease sucks.
This disease sucks.
Sure does! Thanks, Jodi, for the response.
Love,
Susan
Love,
Susan
I had no idea that your son relapsed Susan. I am so sorry.
He's done it once before, he can get clean again. He needs to use the tools that he was given. Has he considered going back to meetings? (can't remember if he went in the first place).
He's so young, he doesn't have to spend the next 20 years getting this right.
cowgirl
He's done it once before, he can get clean again. He needs to use the tools that he was given. Has he considered going back to meetings? (can't remember if he went in the first place).
He's so young, he doesn't have to spend the next 20 years getting this right.
cowgirl
Dear Cowgirl,
He has talked about needing to go back to meetings but the problem he had before was that he does like to occasionally hang out and have a few drinks with his friends. That's what most of them do (once or twice a week). He even said that once he gets through detox he will talk to my second cousin who battled heroin addiction for about 12 years (from 18 to 30). He's been clean for about 15 years now. He called and volunteered his numbers to me when Harry was away at rehab but he didn't contact him. I hope he does now.
He said he's been so stressed because he's been trying to hide this from his friends. I did check online and found a few other doctors in our area. I will leave the list for him tomorrow morning. He's trying desperately to keep his job through this.
Please keep him in your prayers.
Love,
Susan
He has talked about needing to go back to meetings but the problem he had before was that he does like to occasionally hang out and have a few drinks with his friends. That's what most of them do (once or twice a week). He even said that once he gets through detox he will talk to my second cousin who battled heroin addiction for about 12 years (from 18 to 30). He's been clean for about 15 years now. He called and volunteered his numbers to me when Harry was away at rehab but he didn't contact him. I hope he does now.
He said he's been so stressed because he's been trying to hide this from his friends. I did check online and found a few other doctors in our area. I will leave the list for him tomorrow morning. He's trying desperately to keep his job through this.
Please keep him in your prayers.
Love,
Susan
Susan...maybe it's time for you to stop providing him a safe, soft place to fall...
He can't be in recovery and drink. He knows that. You're making it ok for his excuses.
You can offer love and support but at some point, he's got to grow up and figure this out. He knows how to manipulate you and others...we are damn good at it. He needs to get his a** back to meetings. Period.
You're an awesome mom and I've been where you are..both sides of it. You have to let him go. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do.
Take care...
cowgirl
He can't be in recovery and drink. He knows that. You're making it ok for his excuses.
You can offer love and support but at some point, he's got to grow up and figure this out. He knows how to manipulate you and others...we are damn good at it. He needs to get his a** back to meetings. Period.
You're an awesome mom and I've been where you are..both sides of it. You have to let him go. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do.
Take care...
cowgirl
I am sorry to hear of his relapse. However, the good part is he wants to get clean. Relapse often can teach us how hellish using is, and can also be the cement in our recovery. It might be a huge blessing in disguise; it was for me, anyway.
I agree with SP's post. If his habit isn't that big, then he might be able to do it at home. Sub is also an option, and might help with the pain aspect.
Good luck at whatever he decides. Drinking sounds like it might be part of the problem, and hopefully he will learn that it just sets himself up for failure.
I agree with SP's post. If his habit isn't that big, then he might be able to do it at home. Sub is also an option, and might help with the pain aspect.
Good luck at whatever he decides. Drinking sounds like it might be part of the problem, and hopefully he will learn that it just sets himself up for failure.
Susan quotes-
He has talked about needing to go back to meetings but the problem he had before was that he does like to occasionally hang out and have a few drinks with his friends. That's what most of them do (once or twice a week).
I might have misread this but he wasn't talking about doing this after the meetings,was he?They don't do that in NA so I'm sure it was with his other friends?
...bottom line,there are no half measures in Recovery.One has to change their playmates and playgrounds.You can't give him a lot of options about getting clean.Trying to detox with Vicodin sounds like a big,fat set-up to relapse.He's not doing it in a controlled setting.Is there any way you can borrow the money?Where is he getting money for Oxycontin and Heroin?It sure as hell ain't cheap.
You can be compassionate but also be stern.An addict will pounce all over ambiguous behavior and use it to their own advantage.
I would first make sure he is ready to get clean and then check out how you can get the money for detox.That doesn't seem like a lot.I would steer away from any do it yourself treatments with Vicodin and let people who can monitor him be in charge.These Rehab places will introduce them to 12th step groups and require them to attend.
Good Luck
He has talked about needing to go back to meetings but the problem he had before was that he does like to occasionally hang out and have a few drinks with his friends. That's what most of them do (once or twice a week).
I might have misread this but he wasn't talking about doing this after the meetings,was he?They don't do that in NA so I'm sure it was with his other friends?
...bottom line,there are no half measures in Recovery.One has to change their playmates and playgrounds.You can't give him a lot of options about getting clean.Trying to detox with Vicodin sounds like a big,fat set-up to relapse.He's not doing it in a controlled setting.Is there any way you can borrow the money?Where is he getting money for Oxycontin and Heroin?It sure as hell ain't cheap.
You can be compassionate but also be stern.An addict will pounce all over ambiguous behavior and use it to their own advantage.
I would first make sure he is ready to get clean and then check out how you can get the money for detox.That doesn't seem like a lot.I would steer away from any do it yourself treatments with Vicodin and let people who can monitor him be in charge.These Rehab places will introduce them to 12th step groups and require them to attend.
Good Luck
I agree with everything Tim & Lisa stated above...especially the alcohol part...I've read your posts for awhile and watched as the domino's fell...For me, relapse happened way before I did the first drug/drink...
A very good friend of mine shared at a meeting on Friday night...she is celebrating 17years sober and her oldest son is lost in active addiction and she said acceptance is the answer for her and realizing that she cannot make her kids sober nor keep them sober as that is like her thinking she is God and we are not, we are mothers, not God...
Susan,
Maybe it is time to step out of the way and let your son find his way...
Try and remember to take care of yourself...
Take care,
Stacey
A very good friend of mine shared at a meeting on Friday night...she is celebrating 17years sober and her oldest son is lost in active addiction and she said acceptance is the answer for her and realizing that she cannot make her kids sober nor keep them sober as that is like her thinking she is God and we are not, we are mothers, not God...
Susan,
Maybe it is time to step out of the way and let your son find his way...
Try and remember to take care of yourself...
Take care,
Stacey
Sweet Susan, I know how much you love your son. But eventually, you are going to have to let him go and fight his own battles.
I have watched you now for so many months have your life consumed with Harry's addiction, and it breaks my heart for you. But,,,,,,,it's not fair to either of you for you to shoulder his problems any longer.
At his age, he needs to be out and taking care of himself.....addiction or not.
I know you are only doing what comes natural to you.....being a good mom. But I believe you have done just about you can do for Harry, and the rest he needs to do on his own.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers.
Boy can I relate to this...my own daughter is alcoholic and in active addiction...problem with her is..she is in denial and is not ready to surrender. I am at my wits end...I spoke with her last night for a very long time. Her life is in complete and utter turmoil but yet she fails to see what is at the root.
How can I help her??? I don't know anymore except that she needs to help herself. Things are about to get a whole lot worse...there is going to be a custody battle for my precious granddaughter...they (her parents) are both so sick with drugs and alcoholism that neither one of them is able to care for her.
I know only to well all the pain surrounding these issues...they are a huge trigger for me.
What I do know is that there is nothing that we can really do except be there to catch them when they are ready...my thoughts and prayers remain with you!
How can I help her??? I don't know anymore except that she needs to help herself. Things are about to get a whole lot worse...there is going to be a custody battle for my precious granddaughter...they (her parents) are both so sick with drugs and alcoholism that neither one of them is able to care for her.
I know only to well all the pain surrounding these issues...they are a huge trigger for me.
What I do know is that there is nothing that we can really do except be there to catch them when they are ready...my thoughts and prayers remain with you!
Thanks so much for the thoughts and prayers.
I took off and went to the Farm Show with my daughters, son-in-law, husband, and 3 grandchildren today. At least that's something you can be proud of me for.
Love,
Susan
I took off and went to the Farm Show with my daughters, son-in-law, husband, and 3 grandchildren today. At least that's something you can be proud of me for.
Love,
Susan
Just so you know....
My son lives here because he got himself in a lot of financial mess (has a $50,000 debt) which we stupidly and naively borrowed against our house to secure so that the debt would continue to grow by leaps and bounds. We believe that he was clean at the time and later found out he wasn't. That's water under the bridge. Anyway, nothing would make us happier then for him to move out and be independent because that's what makes him happy, BUT he has to make a $550/month payment on that loan and with only being able to get a painting job (because of his legal mess) he doesn't have a whole lot more to use for auto insurance (which is higher now because of the mess), food, rent, etc. My husband wants to retire soon and doesn't want to be responsible for paying that loan payment. I've taken a leave from my work to help with my granddaughter so my daughter could work and provide for her daughter's necessities. We're doing the best we can here. If anyone has any miracle solutions to this, please tell us. At least we're working on digging out of his whole!
Love,
Susan
My son lives here because he got himself in a lot of financial mess (has a $50,000 debt) which we stupidly and naively borrowed against our house to secure so that the debt would continue to grow by leaps and bounds. We believe that he was clean at the time and later found out he wasn't. That's water under the bridge. Anyway, nothing would make us happier then for him to move out and be independent because that's what makes him happy, BUT he has to make a $550/month payment on that loan and with only being able to get a painting job (because of his legal mess) he doesn't have a whole lot more to use for auto insurance (which is higher now because of the mess), food, rent, etc. My husband wants to retire soon and doesn't want to be responsible for paying that loan payment. I've taken a leave from my work to help with my granddaughter so my daughter could work and provide for her daughter's necessities. We're doing the best we can here. If anyone has any miracle solutions to this, please tell us. At least we're working on digging out of his whole!
Love,
Susan
Susan, you sound defensive. No one here was trying to hurt you in anyway.
Even families without addiction have financial issues; this world is an expensive place. Especially for young people; this country is made for people that make triple figure incomes. Not everyone does.
You are doing what you can; give yourself a pat on the back. From an addict's perspective, any leeway you give us to use, we will. The harder and faster we fall, and the more it hurts, the sooner we get better. Now, that isn't for everyone, some never get better. Some never have to get really bad...that is just a generalization.
That is where everyone is coming from. You can't make your son get better...only he can.
And, I would do the detox....kicking is painful and he has a much better chance for success that way....just my humble opinion.
Even families without addiction have financial issues; this world is an expensive place. Especially for young people; this country is made for people that make triple figure incomes. Not everyone does.
You are doing what you can; give yourself a pat on the back. From an addict's perspective, any leeway you give us to use, we will. The harder and faster we fall, and the more it hurts, the sooner we get better. Now, that isn't for everyone, some never get better. Some never have to get really bad...that is just a generalization.
That is where everyone is coming from. You can't make your son get better...only he can.
And, I would do the detox....kicking is painful and he has a much better chance for success that way....just my humble opinion.
I apologize. I just wanted to explain the situation we've gotten ourselves into. I know you're all trying to help but telling me to kick him out on his own wouldn't help us. It would end up making us responsible for his debt because if he had to pay to live somewhere, there would be little money left for the loan against our house which we can't allow to go unpaid. We got ourselves into a mess early on by being so naive. He doesn't have good enough credit to get a loan on his own so we're stuck!
Love,
Susan
Love,
Susan
Susan states-If anyone has any miracle solutions to this, please tell us.
That's the whole problem.There are no miracle solutions.
I can guarantee you one scenario.Not kicking him out and buying into his addict behavior will guarantee you that the loan will not be paid back.
Once his addiction accelerates,he will most likely lose any work he gets.
2,300 for Detox is cheap .......but,if he doesn't really have a desire to get clean,it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a burning fire.
I know myself as a recovering drug addict I would have told you anything you wanted to hear to take care of myself......and did.
You can love your son,show compassion and let go all at the same time.
In all honesty.....that 50 grand.....you may never get back.
You will have a much better chance if he gets clean and adapts a twelve step program in a rehab.Your house is not a rehab.
The clinicians and counselers in a rehab won't let him get away with his bullsh*t.They will confront him and basically kick his butt.
I'm sorry to be so blunt but there is not a quick fix to this and the Vicodin deal is absurd.It sounds like something I would have come with.LOL
That's the whole problem.There are no miracle solutions.
I can guarantee you one scenario.Not kicking him out and buying into his addict behavior will guarantee you that the loan will not be paid back.
Once his addiction accelerates,he will most likely lose any work he gets.
2,300 for Detox is cheap .......but,if he doesn't really have a desire to get clean,it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a burning fire.
I know myself as a recovering drug addict I would have told you anything you wanted to hear to take care of myself......and did.
You can love your son,show compassion and let go all at the same time.
In all honesty.....that 50 grand.....you may never get back.
You will have a much better chance if he gets clean and adapts a twelve step program in a rehab.Your house is not a rehab.
The clinicians and counselers in a rehab won't let him get away with his bullsh*t.They will confront him and basically kick his butt.
I'm sorry to be so blunt but there is not a quick fix to this and the Vicodin deal is absurd.It sounds like something I would have come with.LOL
Dear Susan:
I am sorry your son is in such a bad place, which puts you and your husband in a bad place.
I don't know one thing about heroin...but, it seems to me that detoxing from an opiate (heroin) with an opiate (vicodin) doesn't make any sense. Could you get your son to post on the heroin board and talk to some of those people who have done it, are doing it????
About the financial stuff, I just wanted to share this:
I got a divorce in 1991...I was 29 years old. I was married to a very smart, very mean person. I left that marriage with 137.00 and 34,000...dollars worth of debt. I moved to my home town...and lived in a dump. When I say dump, I mean dump...that is all I could afford. I painted it, made curtains from fabric scraps, I got a job, then another job...(worked two jobs at once). I refinanced my car, and paid some of the bigger bills off at once (to get those mean creditors off my butt), I struggled, cried, moaned, and all the while my husband and his new woman were sleeping in my bed...the bed I was currently paying for!
Long, long, long story short....I made it. It wasn't pretty, it damn sure wasn't easy, but it was mine. It will always be mine...no one can ever take that from me, nor do I owe anyone anything for my independence. My parents could have helped me, but I couldn't allow that. From time to time my mother would bring loads of groceries to my house and I was so thankful for that. Also, I would go to her house to do laundry...so that didn't cost any money.
Prior to this I had a beautiful home, nice clothes, car, dinners out, travel...etc. The only self indulgent thing I did in that first year was buy a bicycle...and I rode like the wind, which saved my life.
It can be done, your son can be independent and pay off his obligations...and even though later in my life I developed this addiction to pain medications, those years on my own taught me skills and life lessons that helped me fight this situation too.
I suggest learning a little more about co-dependency. Maybe you already know a lot about it, I don't mean to suggest that you don't...but, your son may want to know about it too.
One thing I believe is that as far as I know, this is my only life...and it isn't a practice run for another. Peace is the prize...and joy is the bus to the prize!
I wish both for you and your family.
God Bless,
Sarah
I am sorry your son is in such a bad place, which puts you and your husband in a bad place.
I don't know one thing about heroin...but, it seems to me that detoxing from an opiate (heroin) with an opiate (vicodin) doesn't make any sense. Could you get your son to post on the heroin board and talk to some of those people who have done it, are doing it????
About the financial stuff, I just wanted to share this:
I got a divorce in 1991...I was 29 years old. I was married to a very smart, very mean person. I left that marriage with 137.00 and 34,000...dollars worth of debt. I moved to my home town...and lived in a dump. When I say dump, I mean dump...that is all I could afford. I painted it, made curtains from fabric scraps, I got a job, then another job...(worked two jobs at once). I refinanced my car, and paid some of the bigger bills off at once (to get those mean creditors off my butt), I struggled, cried, moaned, and all the while my husband and his new woman were sleeping in my bed...the bed I was currently paying for!
Long, long, long story short....I made it. It wasn't pretty, it damn sure wasn't easy, but it was mine. It will always be mine...no one can ever take that from me, nor do I owe anyone anything for my independence. My parents could have helped me, but I couldn't allow that. From time to time my mother would bring loads of groceries to my house and I was so thankful for that. Also, I would go to her house to do laundry...so that didn't cost any money.
Prior to this I had a beautiful home, nice clothes, car, dinners out, travel...etc. The only self indulgent thing I did in that first year was buy a bicycle...and I rode like the wind, which saved my life.
It can be done, your son can be independent and pay off his obligations...and even though later in my life I developed this addiction to pain medications, those years on my own taught me skills and life lessons that helped me fight this situation too.
I suggest learning a little more about co-dependency. Maybe you already know a lot about it, I don't mean to suggest that you don't...but, your son may want to know about it too.
One thing I believe is that as far as I know, this is my only life...and it isn't a practice run for another. Peace is the prize...and joy is the bus to the prize!
I wish both for you and your family.
God Bless,
Sarah
That was an amazing story,Sarah.Thanks for sharing that.I hope Jodi reads this.
Sometimes it's easier to listen to that inner voice when we are peddaling our butts off on a bicycle to get to that 8.00hr job than to hear it in the front seat of a Jaguar on the way to a day spa.
Sometimes it's easier to listen to that inner voice when we are peddaling our butts off on a bicycle to get to that 8.00hr job than to hear it in the front seat of a Jaguar on the way to a day spa.
Susan,
I am so sorry.
Very hesitant to write as I seem to upset you as I call it like I see it.
Please open your heart and listen to all that is written here.
Something holds you back from letting him go. I know fear is there, and with the constant referrences to everything in his life with "we" well dare I ask what that is all about.
Can't save, can't cure....no CONTROL. You know this, work it.
He is capable of fixing this. He always was. Please allow him to, allow him to learn and grow from this. It is one of the best gifts you could ever give him.
Stop helping to make excuses. He makes enough of his own.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO USE
Yet there are a whole lot of reasons not to.....
This isn't yours, never was, never will be.
LET GO, for him, for you as well.
Love,
Tina
I am so sorry.
Very hesitant to write as I seem to upset you as I call it like I see it.
Please open your heart and listen to all that is written here.
Something holds you back from letting him go. I know fear is there, and with the constant referrences to everything in his life with "we" well dare I ask what that is all about.
Can't save, can't cure....no CONTROL. You know this, work it.
He is capable of fixing this. He always was. Please allow him to, allow him to learn and grow from this. It is one of the best gifts you could ever give him.
Stop helping to make excuses. He makes enough of his own.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO USE
Yet there are a whole lot of reasons not to.....
This isn't yours, never was, never will be.
LET GO, for him, for you as well.
Love,
Tina
