Is There A Neuro Seurgon In The House???

I copied and pasted my post...was one of the last posts on the "YOUR BRAIN ON OPIATES" thread....which was now back 2 pages...i think it was overlooked....snifff....

I just wondered if anyone had the answers to these questions, I have 6 new books at home but cant find the answers in them even,,,Any one know????

TIM,
I have re read your thread again, which i love and am starting to really understand alot more...but..there seems to be that depressing thought about the gates always there in dormancy, just waiting to be fed again...

Can you tell me this very important question: regrading TOLERANCE...if someone is on a narcotic for true severe pain but does not take for pleasure...however is on it for several years and does require more during that time due to tolerance......does that mean that the same thing is happening to their getting or making those extra sacs or gates for life?

My dr never told me this stuff, just said that the body would eventually learn to make its own endorphins again.....

Also, why then if these gates stay there waiting for drugs, do people die from being abstinent from theri DOC for say 6 months, and then relapse and take the old amount they once took, they then overdose????

Why is it that someone who quit taking pills went back on for surgery but could now only take 1 pill ( and it made her high and killed the pain ) when years before she was taking 6 at a time??????

Where does tolerance fit in??????

Im confused???? Do you know?

Ali
If in recovery what difference does it matter? The disease is cunning,baffling, powerful...Not a brain surgeon, but doubt one could answer that. They are just as baffled with the disease as anyone and have been for years.
takasha,

Did you read that original thread???? knowing and understanding what our brains are doing either on or off of narcotics, and how the brain is altered by narcotic abuse IS important as it can give cause to have people THINK of stopping, make people still using stop,and keep stoppers from relapsing.

It can make us understand the physilogical nature of craving, of addiction.....and the role seronins, endophins, etc can play in recovery.

To only deal with the spiritual in recovery we are amiss. Real things happening in the brain and supplements we take for recovery can aid in a succesful and long lasting one..

IMO only of course.....

no slamming..lolol
Ali
p.s.


there ARE people out there thatare resarching this arena in disease....and its becoming more understood and respcted by the main stream medical establishment.....Tim knows alot about it,. thought maybe he could explain/

Ali
Hi Ali,
I have looked into this and there isn't much info out there on tolerance. They really haven't studied it with just pain, they have though with cancer patients.
My husband has chronic pain so this was an interest here and with his doctors, the ones helping him with the pain, and the addiction ones. No one had any real answers, they just don't seem to know.
My main question has always been is it his head generating the pain, making it unbearable as a means to drive him back to heroin. We know there is something wrong, know it is getting worse MRI's don't lie, but in his head what is it. I really believe that at this point, once he crossed the line that he really has no idea what his pain level is.
And until he is off the sub, and lets months go by I don't think he will ever really know. I told him one day now wouldn't it just suck if you stopped and found as time passed your pain got better.
I wish someone knew something even if it was a theory.......I would love to understand this, and as to why there are differences as to how we percieve pain. And there are other factors, especially depression. Depression sufferes seem to be in more pain. This is known, as easily as chronic pain causes depression.....Depression can cause pain, or atleast the feelings of physical pain, or make exsisting pain seem worse.....Why......
A great subject......
You have a great day....
Love,
Tina
I cannot answer any of these questions for you.I am not a doctor or a proffesional in this area,as was so graciously pointed out to me the other day when this post was circulating.I copied and posted this article from anothet site becasue I thought it gave a very good explanation of how PAWS works.
In sure there are some on here ,who have much better educations,that could give you some beter answers to clear up any cofusion you might have.
Lord knows,Im not not about to ask them.Ive got a sore neck a bougainvillea vine practically took my nose off yesterday.I dont feel like getting into a b*tch fight this morning.LOL
Ali,

My uncle is a neurologist. I can ask him any questions you have and see what he has to say about it...

Stacey
Ali
The information you seek really is not available.
The hypothesis about "dormant gates" in the brain - is just that - a hypothesis - not even a theory. It is just a simple model which - for the moment - fits the criteria. I am not going to try and go into anything scientific here - but always remembering that "pain" is so difficult to define. It is really a human emotion which accompanies certain neurological action in the body.
In truth - we dont yet know how the brain works. The messages between cells being carried by neurotranmitters called (for here) dopamine, serotonin and a huge selection of others. People who claim to know how the brain works are certainly not men of science and perhaps cloud the issue for most people.
It is one of those subjects which is so fascinating and attracts so many people with little classical scientific training and who lack the rigour to question.....who chose to pronounce the answers.
As yet we dont have the answers.
Simple
I am not a Dr. I know for a fact, from School that the whole gate thing is a hypothosis. Hypothosis means a tested experiment over and over. It is NOT a law. A law is a proven hypothesis. My addiction dr told me, that thise gates DIE off in time. Plus vicodin is not even nearly as toxic as oxcodone or even worse alcohol

Hope this helps
I also took Psychology of Addictin my last semester of under grad at Seton HAll University. The book had a chapter on opiate abuse. The book said it takes about 100 days to return to very much normal brain activity. You get about 1% better a day. Vicodine being the lease toxic followed by oxycontin being the most toxic. Alcohol is the worst. It takes 18 months to resume back to "normal" and there can certainly be permanent brain damage from a heavy drinker

Well im back to study Economics

Peace
Reddog, I have heard the same thing....alchohol is the WORST...
Yea it shrinks you brain. Your brain is a muscle like any other organ. Yuck. You know I never really enjoyed alcohol. I always got a headache after my second beer, So i really never drank much. Weird
I hate drinking and always have. My husband likes to drink every once in a while like when we "go out" and it annoys him so much that I won't drink. I've always been more of a pills and weed kinda gal. But I need to be...how do you say....CLEAN.

Stacey
Im clean as a whistle. I feel very human today. It really is euphoric. I have my energy, i can study again, The wds I think are gone. I almost have 3 weeks already

WOWWWWWWWWWWW
Actually, the brain isn't a muscle. The heart is mostly muscle but I believe the brain is mostly lipid. It stops growing at a very young age and then the cells die off over time and don't regenerate. Some substances, like alcohol, will kill off the brain cells faster. But our brains are shrinking anyway. As my 13 year old so graciously pointed out to me, "Mommy, your brain really started going downhill after 40." Little creep. LOL

Cheers,
Gina
The brain really is a type of muscle. It also grows if you use it. Like reading or studying. It continues to make more and more folds.

No shrinkage here lol
That's encouraging.
Ali,

i am not a neuro surgeon or a doctor...but i did sleep at a holiday
inn express last night---joke! (a tv ad here in the states)

you may be confusing tolerance with progression of our disease. although they are both important in the short and long picture.

i will go out on a limb and say if you are suffering so many w/d sx then you are addicted whether you took your pills for real pain or for pleasure. up to 25-30 pills a day is an addiction. whether you planned it that way or not. most of us don't! i sure didn't.

the body, after some time does not know the difference, although you may feel you have defined your use in your mind.

tolerance is that we build up a need for more, as we continue to use...a higher and higher dose.

progression of our disease continues as we use and long after and forever after we have quit and are clean.

in other words, if we p/u again after a period of abstinence, even years, we may start with one or two drinks or pills, but immediately our body switches back to exectly where it was when we quit as though we never had quit...so because of that progression and our former tolerance, we will instantly be using exactly what we used to use. that i have can prove from experience. as can many other addicts.

and yes, endorphins do recover after a number of many months.

we have kept them bouncing all over the place, feeding them hourly, weekly, for months and years, with pills, coke, herion etc., so when we deny them now, and remove the drug/s, they are still begging for a fix.

that is the physiological reason that we suffer literal physical cravings, for many months. after the physical cravings heal, we can then have psychological cravings, that can also last for some time. that is why a plan of recovery and action and support is monumentally important. (notice i did not mention the 12 steps-although that is where i have found my recovery).

the thing with quitting drugs is that we are not healed just because we are finished with our taper.

just as in a massive car accident, it takes our bodies many months- up to 18 and beyond to really start to return to some kind of normalcy.

refer to this link and it might help you understand better.

Acute Post Withdrawal Syndrome

i got your note and i thank you.

MissKate
Brain tissue is composed of nerve cells gray and white matter and supporting tissue made up of glial cells. There are an estimated 100,000,000,000 nerve cells (or neurons) in the human brain, yet they account for only 5-10% of all cells in the nervous system. Much more common are the glial cells that support, protect and provide nutrition for nerve cells. Glial cells also help form the blood-brain barrier, which controls the entry of foreign substances, including medications, into the brain.

The brain has the consistency of jelly and is marked, on its surface, with heavy folds and ridges. Weighing about three pounds, it lies snugly within the skull, covered by three layers of membranes called the meninges.

The brain is the control center of the body, allowing us to recognize, think about and respond to external stimuli.

not muscle
so if it keeps growing does that mean your head will get bigger?
talking about the brain of course.
Well i was a pretty heavy drinker, i guess now i know where my brain damage comes from. I am glad i read this thread, all jokes aside, Ive had a lot of drinking thoughts lately. Maybe this willl help them subside