I will have to pray on this. Turn it over to God. I will talk to my pastor about it. Sorry to hear you had a rough night. Hope your day is better--hope you have a little sunshine. Got to go pick up my son. adios........
my addictive behaviors are all wrapped up in insecurities and caretaking sprinkles with a little control for good messure.
My fathers side all cluttered with alcoholics and those create more enablers that you can shake a stick at....and all roles being played out in the different family units. There are several books on these topics. In any kind of theopy or rehab that is worth its salt it will be talked about to some degree and anyone that wants to get a handle and be clean should really take a good hard look at this ....
for me... I used to to never feel apart of ... I always felt like I never fit in .. even in my own family... yes i was an only child and i should have been the center but.. i never felt that way... i never had peer pressure to use and my use didnt happen until adulthood but once i started that feeling of being separate was gone... and i also really knew... ( from the drugs of course) that I was really in control and people needed me for real... lol... and I had to have the feeling... I mattered...
I never had an enabler for my drugs... but I became a people pleaser from my dad and that pressure to please and control... that feeling that my feelings are insignificant and tied to someone elses... really drove my addiction as with the drugs they didnt exist once i was introduced to the substance....
so the biology can be that the switch is there to be flipped or less buried when you are from a family where addiction is in the backround...and psychology is often that we are raised with childhood trama's or in home where there is addiction that make us pron to develope addictive tendencies and behaviors...
dont know if this makes sense... so if some of us come from both ( where there is trauma or addiction in the family and where there is in the genes as well)... the nature and the nurture side...then we are really likely to be addicts.. and if our children are well... so the only thing we can do for our kids at this point is change the nurture by getting and staying clean cant change the genes for them... getting them help if necessary and having open communication..
just my two cents..
Teresa
My fathers side all cluttered with alcoholics and those create more enablers that you can shake a stick at....and all roles being played out in the different family units. There are several books on these topics. In any kind of theopy or rehab that is worth its salt it will be talked about to some degree and anyone that wants to get a handle and be clean should really take a good hard look at this ....
for me... I used to to never feel apart of ... I always felt like I never fit in .. even in my own family... yes i was an only child and i should have been the center but.. i never felt that way... i never had peer pressure to use and my use didnt happen until adulthood but once i started that feeling of being separate was gone... and i also really knew... ( from the drugs of course) that I was really in control and people needed me for real... lol... and I had to have the feeling... I mattered...
I never had an enabler for my drugs... but I became a people pleaser from my dad and that pressure to please and control... that feeling that my feelings are insignificant and tied to someone elses... really drove my addiction as with the drugs they didnt exist once i was introduced to the substance....
so the biology can be that the switch is there to be flipped or less buried when you are from a family where addiction is in the backround...and psychology is often that we are raised with childhood trama's or in home where there is addiction that make us pron to develope addictive tendencies and behaviors...
dont know if this makes sense... so if some of us come from both ( where there is trauma or addiction in the family and where there is in the genes as well)... the nature and the nurture side...then we are really likely to be addicts.. and if our children are well... so the only thing we can do for our kids at this point is change the nurture by getting and staying clean cant change the genes for them... getting them help if necessary and having open communication..
just my two cents..
Teresa
This is really interesting! My mom is a alcoholic, and my father used drugs when I was younger.. I was a firefighter in 1998-2000. I hurt my back then. But this is what I'm wondering you guys were talkin gabout the switch. I would like to know more about that. I was a heavy drinker 19 through age of 23 . When I hurt my back codiene ust to make me sick so I wouldn't take them I wasn't even interested in getting high except if it was a drink or 10. But then I dicovered phenergan..anti nausea medication took lortabs now I don't need that my body is ust to them I suppose. Have I switched from one to the other which would seem the obvious answer or is it the switch in the brain ..not tring to be silly really wondering. I am interested to hear more. If anyone has any ideas please let me know or some of your personal stories ..Thanks...
Janet, As I wrote in another post, Bipolar disorder is part chemical, part mental.
At first I hated that my husband stood in front of his class and discussed my "mood disorder" with everyone, but then he reminded me that I talk about him on here to a bunch of people he doesn't know, so I guess we're even.
He read the warning signs/symptoms of bipolar disorder and told his teacher she may have well been writing only about me..... He asked "How do we change these things? How do we fix them?"
She told him that you don't...... you CAN'T fix manic-depressants.... you can only make sure they stay on medication and stay in therapy.
He DID learn that the incest I experienced as a little girl, on top of the violent sex crime I was a victim of at 17, can actually cause someone that has genetic tendencies to be bipolar... it can cause these tendencies to blow up and cause the person to now be manic depressive.
It scared my husband to hear his teacher talk about that...... I've told him I was bipolar for years, but he was so ignorant to the fact as to what bipolar disorder actually is, that he never believed me...... He, like many people, mistakenly think it's like schizophrenia.... that you're going to have voices talking to you, you'll act crazy all the time, etc........
They don't realize that biploar disorder is a MOOD disorder and there is a wide range of symptoms related to it.
Danni
At first I hated that my husband stood in front of his class and discussed my "mood disorder" with everyone, but then he reminded me that I talk about him on here to a bunch of people he doesn't know, so I guess we're even.
He read the warning signs/symptoms of bipolar disorder and told his teacher she may have well been writing only about me..... He asked "How do we change these things? How do we fix them?"
She told him that you don't...... you CAN'T fix manic-depressants.... you can only make sure they stay on medication and stay in therapy.
He DID learn that the incest I experienced as a little girl, on top of the violent sex crime I was a victim of at 17, can actually cause someone that has genetic tendencies to be bipolar... it can cause these tendencies to blow up and cause the person to now be manic depressive.
It scared my husband to hear his teacher talk about that...... I've told him I was bipolar for years, but he was so ignorant to the fact as to what bipolar disorder actually is, that he never believed me...... He, like many people, mistakenly think it's like schizophrenia.... that you're going to have voices talking to you, you'll act crazy all the time, etc........
They don't realize that biploar disorder is a MOOD disorder and there is a wide range of symptoms related to it.
Danni
looking,
the switch that most of us are refering to here on this thread i think is sort of an actual switch if you will.... not a literaly one really but the point that we start to abuse the drug ....cross the invisible line if you will....
researchers are studying why some people can take these drugs as rx'd for years and never become addicts.. and why some become addict only after a few weeks... that is what we mean by 'the switch'
hope that made sense...lol
the switch that most of us are refering to here on this thread i think is sort of an actual switch if you will.... not a literaly one really but the point that we start to abuse the drug ....cross the invisible line if you will....
researchers are studying why some people can take these drugs as rx'd for years and never become addicts.. and why some become addict only after a few weeks... that is what we mean by 'the switch'
hope that made sense...lol
some people are so set in their beliefs that there is no teaching them \\
my husband has had an opportunity to see me without medication, he is a believer now
as long as i stay on a/d i don't have those wild swings, i don't get as angry or violent...
i have been drunk and high on drugs several times and got violent and hurt a crackhead (no offense to anyone addicted to crack intended) that broke into my friends car and stole her sons bd present and the next time...get this...got major violent bc someone left a needle in my bathroom, that was way before i got started on it...anyway...the guy told his friends that he was beat up by 2 guys...lol
i don't want to wake the beast that has lived in me so long, i know what i am capable of, and it scares the poo out of me, faithfully i swallow those a/d every morning
my husband has had an opportunity to see me without medication, he is a believer now
as long as i stay on a/d i don't have those wild swings, i don't get as angry or violent...
i have been drunk and high on drugs several times and got violent and hurt a crackhead (no offense to anyone addicted to crack intended) that broke into my friends car and stole her sons bd present and the next time...get this...got major violent bc someone left a needle in my bathroom, that was way before i got started on it...anyway...the guy told his friends that he was beat up by 2 guys...lol
i don't want to wake the beast that has lived in me so long, i know what i am capable of, and it scares the poo out of me, faithfully i swallow those a/d every morning
Something I wrote about 18 months ago...... my first glimpse at the elephant in my garden I guess..........
Magnificent Addiction
10/12/2003
Have been reading this book Magnificent Addiction by Philip Kavanaugh and reading through my teenage writings and think I have finally grasped why I am who I am.
Ive spent years struggling with so many theories and trying to correlate my addiction with any past experiences but I kept concluding that I just tried drugs out of curiosity and got addicted because they make me feel so good.
But after this correlation I feel quite differently.
Im not sure if my newfound knowledge is a step closer to recovery or if it is just that knowledge.
This is what I have come up with anyway and its the first rationalization that has really made sense to me:
I have spent my whole life trying to be what God and the church expect a Christian to be, and trying to be the perfect child that my mum so longed for, but no matter how hard I tried, even when I gave all that I am and all that I am capable of being I have kept falling short of these standards.
I never felt I was smart enough, pretty enough, nice enough, talented enough, skinny enough, holy enough or worthy at all of love from God or my mother.
And I gave up even trying with my father years ago because he never wanted to know who I was before making decisions on my worthiness, just made uneducated opinions based on uneducated knowledge.
But with God and mum I strived throughout my teenage years to be what they asked and what they expected, hoping and praying that one day I would be worthy of their love.
But all my effort, all the energy of my heart and soul that I focused on being this perfect person, just left me feeling unworthy.
Why would God love a sinner like me who proclaims to love him but f***s up every time.
I just couldnt follow his rules.
I wanted love and sex from guys, I wanted to get drunk and party with my friends.
I tried to put God before all my worldly desires but I couldnt be all that he wanted me to be and no matter how hard I tried I just kept failing him.
And I have never been good enough at anything that comes close to what my mum wishes me to be.
Never smart enough or pretty enough or nice enough.
She could never accept me for me.
No matter what good I accomplished in my missions to make her proud, she would always find fault in me.
I could never make her proud.
My every mistake shamed her.
Everything about me shamed her, because I couldnt be as perfect as her and she couldnt understand it.
So I searched for love in guys.
I could have almost any guy I wanted, but no matter how hard I tried could not keep even one.
I loved so many of them with all my heart and gave them all I could possibly offer but I guess I tried to hard.
Although they all fell in love with me so quickly, they fell out of love just as fast and with each failing relationship I felt less and less worthy of love.
Why couldnt just one of them love me forever like I could love them?
Then I tried E.
For the first time in my life I felt happy with who I was, that I could be loved as I am, but also giving me the confidence that I could actually be all that God and mum wanted me to be.
A newfound strength and control.
I could be all they wanted me to be and more.
I could be happy and nice and skinny.
I could be anything I wanted.
I felt that finally I had found the answer to all my insecurities and could take control of my life and make everyone happy.
But the peace and control that I found in drugs only lasted a short time.
Without me even realizing it the drugs took control of me.
But even with the knowledge that I was out of control, I couldnt give them up.
They were the closest I had felt to being perfect my whole life and gave me comfort, if only for the period that I was high.
But I got greedy.
I needed that comfort all the time.
The peacefulness that came with the high gave me a sense of worthiness I had never felt before. I felt worthy of being loved.
I couldnt bare to go back to the reality of my sobrierty where I would never be worthy.
So even though I knew it was a false worthiness, to me it was better then the failure of my reality.
What started out with me feeling the completeness of control, turned to where I lost all of who I had once strived to be.
Why would I want to go back to that failure of a person who nobody could love anyway.
And here I am, 6 years later, still lost in this false oblivion that drugs let me escape to, not wanting to go back to being the failure I was.
I know I am a bigger failure now, but at least Im not trying to be perfect so I dont feel so let down.
What is the point in trying to be what they want when I will never reach their standards anyway?
So I dont try, and I enjoy this oblivion, but I crave to have control and independence.
This huge battle goes on inside me every day and I dont think it will ever end.
Im so lost.
Magnificent Addiction
10/12/2003
Have been reading this book Magnificent Addiction by Philip Kavanaugh and reading through my teenage writings and think I have finally grasped why I am who I am.
Ive spent years struggling with so many theories and trying to correlate my addiction with any past experiences but I kept concluding that I just tried drugs out of curiosity and got addicted because they make me feel so good.
But after this correlation I feel quite differently.
Im not sure if my newfound knowledge is a step closer to recovery or if it is just that knowledge.
This is what I have come up with anyway and its the first rationalization that has really made sense to me:
I have spent my whole life trying to be what God and the church expect a Christian to be, and trying to be the perfect child that my mum so longed for, but no matter how hard I tried, even when I gave all that I am and all that I am capable of being I have kept falling short of these standards.
I never felt I was smart enough, pretty enough, nice enough, talented enough, skinny enough, holy enough or worthy at all of love from God or my mother.
And I gave up even trying with my father years ago because he never wanted to know who I was before making decisions on my worthiness, just made uneducated opinions based on uneducated knowledge.
But with God and mum I strived throughout my teenage years to be what they asked and what they expected, hoping and praying that one day I would be worthy of their love.
But all my effort, all the energy of my heart and soul that I focused on being this perfect person, just left me feeling unworthy.
Why would God love a sinner like me who proclaims to love him but f***s up every time.
I just couldnt follow his rules.
I wanted love and sex from guys, I wanted to get drunk and party with my friends.
I tried to put God before all my worldly desires but I couldnt be all that he wanted me to be and no matter how hard I tried I just kept failing him.
And I have never been good enough at anything that comes close to what my mum wishes me to be.
Never smart enough or pretty enough or nice enough.
She could never accept me for me.
No matter what good I accomplished in my missions to make her proud, she would always find fault in me.
I could never make her proud.
My every mistake shamed her.
Everything about me shamed her, because I couldnt be as perfect as her and she couldnt understand it.
So I searched for love in guys.
I could have almost any guy I wanted, but no matter how hard I tried could not keep even one.
I loved so many of them with all my heart and gave them all I could possibly offer but I guess I tried to hard.
Although they all fell in love with me so quickly, they fell out of love just as fast and with each failing relationship I felt less and less worthy of love.
Why couldnt just one of them love me forever like I could love them?
Then I tried E.
For the first time in my life I felt happy with who I was, that I could be loved as I am, but also giving me the confidence that I could actually be all that God and mum wanted me to be.
A newfound strength and control.
I could be all they wanted me to be and more.
I could be happy and nice and skinny.
I could be anything I wanted.
I felt that finally I had found the answer to all my insecurities and could take control of my life and make everyone happy.
But the peace and control that I found in drugs only lasted a short time.
Without me even realizing it the drugs took control of me.
But even with the knowledge that I was out of control, I couldnt give them up.
They were the closest I had felt to being perfect my whole life and gave me comfort, if only for the period that I was high.
But I got greedy.
I needed that comfort all the time.
The peacefulness that came with the high gave me a sense of worthiness I had never felt before. I felt worthy of being loved.
I couldnt bare to go back to the reality of my sobrierty where I would never be worthy.
So even though I knew it was a false worthiness, to me it was better then the failure of my reality.
What started out with me feeling the completeness of control, turned to where I lost all of who I had once strived to be.
Why would I want to go back to that failure of a person who nobody could love anyway.
And here I am, 6 years later, still lost in this false oblivion that drugs let me escape to, not wanting to go back to being the failure I was.
I know I am a bigger failure now, but at least Im not trying to be perfect so I dont feel so let down.
What is the point in trying to be what they want when I will never reach their standards anyway?
So I dont try, and I enjoy this oblivion, but I crave to have control and independence.
This huge battle goes on inside me every day and I dont think it will ever end.
Im so lost.
good heavens white...i know all about the guy thing...promiscuity for approval and acceptance...i could have written that myself.
I could've written that too, been down that road years ago.
White, are you still looking for approval from others? In your heart you know you've tried to live up to high standards of others. No one can possibly do this. You have to live up to your own standards and you know what they are.
In the past, guilt would come crashing down on me if I did anything I knew was "wrong" according to others. Little stuff, like giving the kids pancakes for supper instead of a good meal, used to send me into major guilt. So imagine how I felt when I was ordering hundreds of $ of drugs online?
I've reached the point where I live by my conscience. I KNOW what's right or wrong for me. Any guilt I feel now is a result of not living up to MY standards.
It's between me & God, and together we're a pretty good monitor of my actions.
After all, you wrote "What is the point in trying to be what they want when I will never reach their standards anyway?"
White, are you still looking for approval from others? In your heart you know you've tried to live up to high standards of others. No one can possibly do this. You have to live up to your own standards and you know what they are.
In the past, guilt would come crashing down on me if I did anything I knew was "wrong" according to others. Little stuff, like giving the kids pancakes for supper instead of a good meal, used to send me into major guilt. So imagine how I felt when I was ordering hundreds of $ of drugs online?
I've reached the point where I live by my conscience. I KNOW what's right or wrong for me. Any guilt I feel now is a result of not living up to MY standards.
It's between me & God, and together we're a pretty good monitor of my actions.
After all, you wrote "What is the point in trying to be what they want when I will never reach their standards anyway?"
Charmed, how are you?? Haven't seen you for a while, and looks like you are out? The last we heard, you were recouping from surgery.
"So even though I knew it was a false worthiness, to me it was better then the failure of my reality.
What started out with me feeling the completeness of control, turned to where I lost all of who I had once strived to be.
Why would I want to go back to that failure of a person who nobody could love anyway."
Okay, that one hit home big time. So you get sober, but then the reality hits you. It is a painful space of being sober, but still in that reality of you screwed everything up and are still stuck with the feelings of no control and unworthiness. Guess that is where working the steps come in...
Kerry
"So even though I knew it was a false worthiness, to me it was better then the failure of my reality.
What started out with me feeling the completeness of control, turned to where I lost all of who I had once strived to be.
Why would I want to go back to that failure of a person who nobody could love anyway."
Okay, that one hit home big time. So you get sober, but then the reality hits you. It is a painful space of being sober, but still in that reality of you screwed everything up and are still stuck with the feelings of no control and unworthiness. Guess that is where working the steps come in...
Kerry
I think its part nature and part nuture whether we are addicts or not. My grandfather took pills and smoked pot but noone else in my family did. No alcoholics I know of either. So maybe I had a little of that in me when born..but being nasty and abusive ran big in the family. My mother kept cutting my hair off so I looked like a boy and was made fun of til I got guts at age 12 to tell her NO MORE, she made me eat out of a dog dish and I was humiliated even at a young age, I saw my best friends mother get raped when I was 10 and I was the sole witness and had to testify at court ( the creep got 15 yrs in jail..well deserved). The list goes on but I can see NOW how that would make make me want to escape reality.. and so I have been running for the past 30+ years. Even though I know this and have had 10+ years of therapy..the feeling of worthlessness pervades my every cell. Yet, if anyone met me..on the outside I seem all "together".People have told me to JUST GET OVER IT. Oh God, If I could only JUST DO THAT. In a heartbeat, I'd be there. My biggest fear isnt the withdrawals physically..its what am I going to emotionally feel like after??? Thats what keeps me coming back to those little round things...yet I hate them and me every time I take one. I want off this merry go round. I am getting too old for this. I need to LIVE my life and you cant live it in a pill fog.I am crying as I type this..too many bad memories surfacing.Gotta go get myself together before going up to school to get my son....deep breathe. Thanks, as always, for listening.We are all good souls..just a bit lost.
Exelent thread BD jackie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
amom,
Are pancakes a bad dinner? Oppsie, I am in trouble if they are! j/k addict mom. As far as the whole "switch" thing I think it is a pysiological thing. Partly chemical and part mental. The way it was explained to me by my dr. was that it is a very primal thing. Like sex, it feels good so you want it. Now most people act in an appropriate manner and don't grab anyone and tear off their clothes. For others it is Eating. The center of your brain says "Good-I like that I want it" and it tells your cerebral cortex to go get it. Perhaps I am more prone than someone who has no alcoholism in their genes. In my case there is no obvious thing I am trying to escape from. I am surrounded by love and have many blessings which makes me feel even worse for my behavior. I am not trying to say I have a perfect life. Life is not perfect. I don't see myself as lazy or weak either. Yet I continue to struggle with this. I have asked many this question, is it possible I am just a greedy girl and want to feel perfectly euphoric all the time. Could it be that simple? Or not?
Are pancakes a bad dinner? Oppsie, I am in trouble if they are! j/k addict mom. As far as the whole "switch" thing I think it is a pysiological thing. Partly chemical and part mental. The way it was explained to me by my dr. was that it is a very primal thing. Like sex, it feels good so you want it. Now most people act in an appropriate manner and don't grab anyone and tear off their clothes. For others it is Eating. The center of your brain says "Good-I like that I want it" and it tells your cerebral cortex to go get it. Perhaps I am more prone than someone who has no alcoholism in their genes. In my case there is no obvious thing I am trying to escape from. I am surrounded by love and have many blessings which makes me feel even worse for my behavior. I am not trying to say I have a perfect life. Life is not perfect. I don't see myself as lazy or weak either. Yet I continue to struggle with this. I have asked many this question, is it possible I am just a greedy girl and want to feel perfectly euphoric all the time. Could it be that simple? Or not?
Loliverny,
That is some s***ty stuff! I am sorry for all you have been through and would never tell you to just get over it. That is stupid. It is like telling someone to stop bleeding. A lot of healing is in order. Do you have a plan to stop using anytime soon? Stories like that make me see what an a****** I am for whining about my addiction.
That is some s***ty stuff! I am sorry for all you have been through and would never tell you to just get over it. That is stupid. It is like telling someone to stop bleeding. A lot of healing is in order. Do you have a plan to stop using anytime soon? Stories like that make me see what an a****** I am for whining about my addiction.
Thanks.I have tapered down to 3-4 Vicodins a day. when those are done next week, I need to throw out the blue Fioricets and call a therapist. I dont know what else to do..will continue here as the friendship, support and advice has been really helpful.I fear if I dont try therapy again, I'll just keep using and i really really want to stop.
What do other people do after the pills are gone, the withdrawals are over...I am open for suggestions. NA for one I am sure.
What do other people do after the pills are gone, the withdrawals are over...I am open for suggestions. NA for one I am sure.
Janet;
I'm right with you with the AD's. After I stoped the years of self-medicating with alcohol in the early 90's, and before I was diagnosed and treated for depression, I spent a little over a year in a state of "quiet desperation". AA kept me going during this difficult time...it gave me a reason to get out and kept me accountable to new group of friends.
Still, my mood was sliding further and further into a place of hopelessness. I was beginning to have suicidal thoughts, and I believe that inevitably I would have gone back to some sort of self-medication had I not found the right AD.
Regreattably I had to go ahead and screw things up with friggin pain pills! Still, I know today that I'll be okay as long as I take my AD's every day. I won't screw around with this stuff.
Here's a good story that was in this past Sunday's NYTimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/m...ar_4&oref=login
Take care;
Jim
I'm right with you with the AD's. After I stoped the years of self-medicating with alcohol in the early 90's, and before I was diagnosed and treated for depression, I spent a little over a year in a state of "quiet desperation". AA kept me going during this difficult time...it gave me a reason to get out and kept me accountable to new group of friends.
Still, my mood was sliding further and further into a place of hopelessness. I was beginning to have suicidal thoughts, and I believe that inevitably I would have gone back to some sort of self-medication had I not found the right AD.
Regreattably I had to go ahead and screw things up with friggin pain pills! Still, I know today that I'll be okay as long as I take my AD's every day. I won't screw around with this stuff.
Here's a good story that was in this past Sunday's NYTimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/m...ar_4&oref=login
Take care;
Jim
Bob B.'s post on addiction is a brain disease shed so much light on why, once I got clean, I still went back out. I went through so much to get clean, only to mess up over and over.
I also believe, that the farther you go (the longer you use, and the more damage you do) the more your cereberal cortex (the motivation and pleasure centers) gets more damaged.
I know that I have alot of damage to repair....lol.
Kerry
I also believe, that the farther you go (the longer you use, and the more damage you do) the more your cereberal cortex (the motivation and pleasure centers) gets more damaged.
I know that I have alot of damage to repair....lol.
Kerry
Wow, this post kinda took on a life of its own. I sure didn't want to bring up so many painful memories to people, if I caused sorrow I'm sorry.
Give me a minute to finish what I was getting at (boy if i get a call now & have to go, no way u guys will believe me- u'll think im just trying to build up ur curiosity.) I think Boo was pretty close or right on to what i was getting at, but first i want to comment on some of the comments.
Almost every post in one way or another dealt with our parents, and what seems in some cases, instances of obvious, blatant, uncaring on their part. I remember when i was like 18 or 19, i blamed them for everything, and as i grew older, i tried to more or less exonerate them- taking 'responsiblity' for everything on myself. I guess thats a reaction to a lot of emotions, morals & confusion. (For example, many, if not most, of the things i felt about them & blamed them for when i was 18 weren't true, so to i guess emotionally compensate for that & take responsiblity, i kinda tried to forgive to the point of exonerating them & forget about things - neither thing is fair or true.) It is very difficult to think of some of the abusive things my mother did and not feel hateful. But u can not solve them by denying them or only focusing on the'good' things they did. At best at this point i can only realize that my mother was (and is but has mellowed out somewhat) seriously disturbed. As I have said before, my life would have been much better had my mother been a heroin addict. (She & my father were pretty much teetotalers).
I think it is definitely pretty clear that our parents played a major part in our addiction. It absolutely breaks my heart to hear of the terrifying, life shattering, sexual assault on Bumpnbad, and the painful results were magnified by her mothers neglectful unloving response. (Probably brought on by fear, not knowing what to do & maybe even embarasment.) I'm real sorry that happened to you & I'm sorry your mother didn't know how to help. And Danielle, I am sorry that you also lived through that horor 2 times & who knows how many other people.
Teresaki, that stuff about not fitting in, i almost never fit in & it felt like the times i did where just like the succeses i have had in life:"They were a mistake or a fluke or they didn't really count, & if they really knew me no way i'd fit in. It still brings me shame to admit that one of the first drugs i was addicted to was airplane glue (sniffing it). I still clearly remember a thought: It made the day & the rejection & the failures & the frustration disapear. i might have to go to school tomorrow, but it dosent matter because as soon as i get home & sniff, it no longer happened. WHat sick thinking for a 15 year old (or any age) kid. I did not belong & i had no sense of family. It never occured to me to go to my parents with a problem for help - I was way too concerned how bad it would make them feel having their kid do the things i did. If they found out, I felt it would be emotionally devastating to them: that it would hurt their health. WHere on earth does a kid get that thinking.
But how we ended up choosing drugs- What was it about us. Other people all have had the same things, but did not use drugs as their out. I'm not saying they are happy or healthy or that they are not. But I just wonder what it is that we have in common that made us choose what we chose..
For example, my wife was molested when she was a child, by her brother. Her parents virtually ignored it. Also, I have come to learn (and she is starting to) that her childhood was not what she thought it was. But she is not a drug user, not habitual. We used to do an 8 together once in a while, using it like champaigne & having real good sex. (sorry vinny, she's mine & she doesn't use anything at all for a couple years, but man, those were some real nice nights.) But she could do something & then not even think about it again. Same thing is true with pain pills. If she got them, it was legit. She sorta liked the high at first, but didn't take more then she needed & when the pain was gone, she didn't take any. (The only problem she had was that they always seemed to be vanishing pain pills. Like if she had a script for 30, & took them for one day PRN, & came across the bottle a couple weeks later, she would wonder why there were only maybe 5 left, since she only took 3. For some reason she didn't believe me when i told her she mustve taken more then she thought, or maybe the pharmacy made a mistake.)
But she copes with her pain of chilhood in different ways. One way is i believe she fantasied it into something that wasn't. She also fantacized (sp) her parents relationship. When we lived in Buffalo, she always wanted me to be more like her father, who was always so gentle and kind to her mother. He did whatever she wanted and wa always patient with her & she never heard him yell at her. She could not understand how I could love her & get mad at her sometimes. She also thought she had a perfect childhood.
Shoot, I gotta go, I'll finish later.
You guys really got me thinking.
But the main thing I started this post about was: Little, odd things I remember from my past.
I remember when I was about 8 years old, some movie on TV about a guy who was a heroin addict & something about him digging a whole in the backyard when he was a kid. I asked my parents about it, cause i didn't understand it, & they kind of explained what an addict was. Something about the whole thing seemed to have been almost too interesting to me asdemonstrated now by the fact that i still remember such an obscure thing.
I also remember thinking about addiction when i was very young. i remember not understanding it and wanting to see what it was like. I then (maybe i was 10 at the most) decided to take 2 aspirin every day day to see if i could get 'addicted' to them & to see what would happen. My father saw me one day, asked me what i was doing, and told me to stop, which i did.
One obvious strange thing about this is that i did it. Another thing is my fathers reaction. What the hell was i doing. WHy didnn't he see that this was an odd thing for a kid to do & try to figure out what was going on.
There are other little things which will probably come back to me. I guess I'm wondering along that line- the strange almost non drug - drug, pre drug behaviour that i did. What is the relationship between that & my later addiction.
Gotta go, but: DANIELLE, I DON'T KNOW if it's true that manic depression can't be "fixed". I do know that one time i learned in a psycology class that if ever someone had a 'psychotic exprn they never get better, or over it. Well
I'm pretty sure tht that real bad acid trip i had was pretty close to a psychotic expereince, & looking bak, when i was 19 i do believe i was coming close to teetering on the edge of insanity, but i did get better, totally (or as good or better then i was before) Every pot has a kettle, everything learned can be unlearned and relearned.
gotta go, please everyone, be kind to urself. love , harry
I really do got to conclue this soon
Give me a minute to finish what I was getting at (boy if i get a call now & have to go, no way u guys will believe me- u'll think im just trying to build up ur curiosity.) I think Boo was pretty close or right on to what i was getting at, but first i want to comment on some of the comments.
Almost every post in one way or another dealt with our parents, and what seems in some cases, instances of obvious, blatant, uncaring on their part. I remember when i was like 18 or 19, i blamed them for everything, and as i grew older, i tried to more or less exonerate them- taking 'responsiblity' for everything on myself. I guess thats a reaction to a lot of emotions, morals & confusion. (For example, many, if not most, of the things i felt about them & blamed them for when i was 18 weren't true, so to i guess emotionally compensate for that & take responsiblity, i kinda tried to forgive to the point of exonerating them & forget about things - neither thing is fair or true.) It is very difficult to think of some of the abusive things my mother did and not feel hateful. But u can not solve them by denying them or only focusing on the'good' things they did. At best at this point i can only realize that my mother was (and is but has mellowed out somewhat) seriously disturbed. As I have said before, my life would have been much better had my mother been a heroin addict. (She & my father were pretty much teetotalers).
I think it is definitely pretty clear that our parents played a major part in our addiction. It absolutely breaks my heart to hear of the terrifying, life shattering, sexual assault on Bumpnbad, and the painful results were magnified by her mothers neglectful unloving response. (Probably brought on by fear, not knowing what to do & maybe even embarasment.) I'm real sorry that happened to you & I'm sorry your mother didn't know how to help. And Danielle, I am sorry that you also lived through that horor 2 times & who knows how many other people.
Teresaki, that stuff about not fitting in, i almost never fit in & it felt like the times i did where just like the succeses i have had in life:"They were a mistake or a fluke or they didn't really count, & if they really knew me no way i'd fit in. It still brings me shame to admit that one of the first drugs i was addicted to was airplane glue (sniffing it). I still clearly remember a thought: It made the day & the rejection & the failures & the frustration disapear. i might have to go to school tomorrow, but it dosent matter because as soon as i get home & sniff, it no longer happened. WHat sick thinking for a 15 year old (or any age) kid. I did not belong & i had no sense of family. It never occured to me to go to my parents with a problem for help - I was way too concerned how bad it would make them feel having their kid do the things i did. If they found out, I felt it would be emotionally devastating to them: that it would hurt their health. WHere on earth does a kid get that thinking.
But how we ended up choosing drugs- What was it about us. Other people all have had the same things, but did not use drugs as their out. I'm not saying they are happy or healthy or that they are not. But I just wonder what it is that we have in common that made us choose what we chose..
For example, my wife was molested when she was a child, by her brother. Her parents virtually ignored it. Also, I have come to learn (and she is starting to) that her childhood was not what she thought it was. But she is not a drug user, not habitual. We used to do an 8 together once in a while, using it like champaigne & having real good sex. (sorry vinny, she's mine & she doesn't use anything at all for a couple years, but man, those were some real nice nights.) But she could do something & then not even think about it again. Same thing is true with pain pills. If she got them, it was legit. She sorta liked the high at first, but didn't take more then she needed & when the pain was gone, she didn't take any. (The only problem she had was that they always seemed to be vanishing pain pills. Like if she had a script for 30, & took them for one day PRN, & came across the bottle a couple weeks later, she would wonder why there were only maybe 5 left, since she only took 3. For some reason she didn't believe me when i told her she mustve taken more then she thought, or maybe the pharmacy made a mistake.)
But she copes with her pain of chilhood in different ways. One way is i believe she fantasied it into something that wasn't. She also fantacized (sp) her parents relationship. When we lived in Buffalo, she always wanted me to be more like her father, who was always so gentle and kind to her mother. He did whatever she wanted and wa always patient with her & she never heard him yell at her. She could not understand how I could love her & get mad at her sometimes. She also thought she had a perfect childhood.
Shoot, I gotta go, I'll finish later.
You guys really got me thinking.
But the main thing I started this post about was: Little, odd things I remember from my past.
I remember when I was about 8 years old, some movie on TV about a guy who was a heroin addict & something about him digging a whole in the backyard when he was a kid. I asked my parents about it, cause i didn't understand it, & they kind of explained what an addict was. Something about the whole thing seemed to have been almost too interesting to me asdemonstrated now by the fact that i still remember such an obscure thing.
I also remember thinking about addiction when i was very young. i remember not understanding it and wanting to see what it was like. I then (maybe i was 10 at the most) decided to take 2 aspirin every day day to see if i could get 'addicted' to them & to see what would happen. My father saw me one day, asked me what i was doing, and told me to stop, which i did.
One obvious strange thing about this is that i did it. Another thing is my fathers reaction. What the hell was i doing. WHy didnn't he see that this was an odd thing for a kid to do & try to figure out what was going on.
There are other little things which will probably come back to me. I guess I'm wondering along that line- the strange almost non drug - drug, pre drug behaviour that i did. What is the relationship between that & my later addiction.
Gotta go, but: DANIELLE, I DON'T KNOW if it's true that manic depression can't be "fixed". I do know that one time i learned in a psycology class that if ever someone had a 'psychotic exprn they never get better, or over it. Well
I'm pretty sure tht that real bad acid trip i had was pretty close to a psychotic expereince, & looking bak, when i was 19 i do believe i was coming close to teetering on the edge of insanity, but i did get better, totally (or as good or better then i was before) Every pot has a kettle, everything learned can be unlearned and relearned.
gotta go, please everyone, be kind to urself. love , harry
I really do got to conclue this soon
begood-
Like you, I really didn't have any terribel thing I needed to escape from. BUT, I think the thing I wanted to escape from most was ME.
Kids will be kids, I know that, but as the youngest, I vividly remember being called "fat, ugly and stupid" all through childhood by my older brothers and sisters. I know I am not these things, and never was, but that label stayed in my head a long time. Doing drugs let me forget about it temporarily.
Like you, I really didn't have any terribel thing I needed to escape from. BUT, I think the thing I wanted to escape from most was ME.
Kids will be kids, I know that, but as the youngest, I vividly remember being called "fat, ugly and stupid" all through childhood by my older brothers and sisters. I know I am not these things, and never was, but that label stayed in my head a long time. Doing drugs let me forget about it temporarily.
oops my bad, that'll teach you to post and run browndog...
i started out and believe me, i haven't buried these relics from the past...
i have been sexually molested/raped more that twice, some of the situations partly my fault.
i posted to someone last night cause i got upset bc she was blaming herself cause she almost got raped.
i don't hold back on my experiences, no matter how bad or shameful they are...so i guess i sort of set the theme...
i started out and believe me, i haven't buried these relics from the past...
i have been sexually molested/raped more that twice, some of the situations partly my fault.
i posted to someone last night cause i got upset bc she was blaming herself cause she almost got raped.
i don't hold back on my experiences, no matter how bad or shameful they are...so i guess i sort of set the theme...
