Hi to all my old and new chat friends & hi and good wishes to those out there that don't like me. COWGIRL, I saw ur interesting question and instead of being 1 of a million posts I gotta say right here, that adamently NO, it''s not a sin---well i'm pretty sure it's not.
But then again, some of the things we addicts do (except for the rare exceptions like me) qualify as sin. Anyway, when I think about it, THAT MY DEAR COWGIRL WAS A DAMN GOOD QUESTION (u probably stole it from a guy.........I probably should be more careful since I just pawned my 9---but then i dont think you'd shoot an unarmed man especially as smart and good looking like me.
ANYWAY, SERIOUSLY I HAVE EXPERIENCED some things over the last several months--and a couple points might be of real help to someone, MAYBE Even a LIFESAVER.
TO those of u that are not familiar with me I have been a long time addict- even though I can't dance I am very experienced at being maybe a 2 or 3 stepper in recovery. IF YOU ARE NEWLY TRYING TO GET CLEAN Dont be afraid to go to different NA meetings, I know it can be scarry but nothing bad happens and u r not out of place, even if u are still using. LOITERING WITH INTENT to get clean is OK. NA IS NOT GOSPEL and if theres something about it u dont like, dont buy that part. Also for whatever reason u might end up at an NA that is completely uncomfortable for you. Dont give up on all of them because of one. (The very first NA meeting I went to was absolutely terrible. It was like a bar without alcohal, & there were clicks and on & on. This was years ago, and I was desperate for help. I didn't know how things worked there, but I did stand up, explain how desparate I was, etc. My thinking was after the meeting some people would give me advice or something.) Really and truly, no one approached me. I hung out for a while afterward and it was a lot like a bar with no alcohal. OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS not the way its supposed to work- but it was years later until I attended another meeting. SO MY POINT IS THERE ARE GREAT NA meetings where a lot of genuine love, compassion and honest help is available.
FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT FALLEN ASLEEP YET, I want to touch briefly on my experiences with methadone. My feelings about it are mixed. Most of the bad points people already know, but just in case I will summarize them: 1: It is a drug, do not bulls*** urself about it. (2) It is way stronger then most drugs that people use (vicodan, codiene, etc. (3) Its effects are sometimes stronger then u realize and dangerous - I can't count the times i used to fall asleep driving, and I was fortunate to never have gotten in an accident. There were many times when I was pulled over by the police and luckily never arrested. It was always at night and I was able to explain that I had just got done working 20 hours or so. They would usually follow me home, and of course with them behind me I was totaly focused. BUT THE POINT IS, AS CAREFUL A driver as I am, I was a danger to myself and others. (4) It is a son of a b**** to get off, and even after the main wd's are over, depending on your age, it takes at least a good 3 to 6 months to get off. (5) You make more contacts of hard core addicts at the clinic. (6) It becomes very easy for new habbits to creap in. At first methadone gives u a nice high, but it wears off after a couple months, even with increased dosages. When I used to use H,C was something a rarely used, because it ate up the high. WELL ONE DAY I was giving a guy who was in my ADVANCED RECOVERY GROUP. His friend who had just gotten out of Attica was with us and they started talking about a 'bell ringer.' What they were talking about was hitting coke, getting a bell ringer, and it ate thru the meth and then U could get high on H. That phrase stuck to me like a magnet with super glue. I ended up getting myself in a terrible situation. For probably a year or more I ended up getting a triple habit-worse then I had ever been. (7)some people take benzos when on meth and that is a very, very easy way to die. IM SURE THERE ARE MANY OTHER BAD THINGS ABOUT METH (like the ridiculous cost of $13.00 a day in the south), but I covered most, I think---except for a real big thing -the ol schwantz doesn't work too good.
BUT THERE ARE SOME DEFINITE SITUATIONS WHERE METHADONE IS VERY BENEFICIAL. (1) If you are a hard core hard drug addict (H,OC's, Dilaudid, etc) and you dont want to stop or can't stop, and u detox & relapse & no matter what you find yourself at the same spot, regardless of your motives, getting a clean , legal drug which enables you to live a mostly normal life if u want to- well I believe it is a real good thing. This is true even if ur motives aren't necessarly to get straight. At the least u are getting away from living with a loaded gun pointing at ur head, forcing u do to terrible things to keep off of E.
You have at least some control over your life and you know at least see a clear choice and end up changing. (2)For the same type of person described in 1 who wants to stop living a drug life, methadone is a life saver. It is especially beneficial if you are going to a clinic that really wants to help people and has quality groups and good counslors. Yes , methadone is a drug, but used properly it is a medicine. No more withdrawels, no more cravings, no more criminal behaviour. In many cases, over time, people do a slow detox and can get off it. In other cases, they might be on meth for life. But they have a life.
(3)Another obvious advantage is you are no longer poisining your body with things like tylenol, or cuts, or any kind of poison. Your dangerous, lawless life is over.
I KNOW THIS IS GETTING REAL LONG - BUT I HOPE WHOEVER HAS MADE IT THIS FAR IS NOT BORED TO TEARS and might benifit from my years of suffering and help themselves or someone else. (I also know I am saying nothing new or ingenious-and a lot of u know this stuff already-but u love me anyhow)
Anyway, even though a couple of people who are maybe a tad bit smarter then me (a shrink & a drug couselor years ago) believed I was one of those people who was 'incureable' (probably) and was a meth for life man. Well they are wrong. (I don't hold it against them, I remember I was wrong once.)
I'm not gonna bore u with the details how I got off meth the first time after I was on it about 8 years. Suffice it to say I did not enjoy it.
A few years later, after much consideration, with the advice of my shrink, I got back on it.. I didn't tell my wife until I had been on it for a year- that was not the most pleasant conversation I ever had.
This time I got off it it was simple, even though I was on an extremely high dose (160 mg a day.). I AM GOING TO TELL YOU THE SECRET OF HOW I GOT OFF IT WITH NO WITHDRAWELS AT ALL. Maybe I should even write a little book and charge people only $19.95 for it--but wait, there is more, if u are one of the first 800 callers you get an extra one free, AND I will also give you a free jar of dehydrated water that u can simply add water and u will have a full jar of water..
No , seriously, this is how I did it. The first part was good, but step 2--well probably not the best plan. THE WAY METHADONE IS PRICED IN THE SOUTH is by the dose. It cost $13.00 a dose whether you get 10 mg. or 200 mg. When you are at a high dose its pretty easy to come down 5 or 10 mg every couple weeks.
I only had to go in once a week and I got 6 takeouts. I was getting the tablets rather then the liquid so it is easy to control your dose. After several months I worked my way down to about 80 to 100 mgs, maybe even a little lower. This also ment I was able to save all the extra for my final detox.
Well STEP 2 WAS THE UNPLANNED PART. i WAS RIDING my motorcycle home , slowed down to maybe 10 MPH as I was in the turning lane coming up on a light, when suddenly I saw the light, and heard the sound---It was not the light of truth or the sound of inner beauty, It was a loud screach of brakes and headlights in my mirrors- and I Instantly knew I was screwed. Somehow, I got out of it with only a broken shoulder & it liked like someone beat the s*** out of me.
Dilaudids where prescribed for my pain. So Im not exactly what mixture I was using, but I dropped way down on my meth, to less then 80 mgs. Two days later I was back at work, tripped, landed on the same shoulder and crushed. Now we are talking big time pain & surgery. They had to put in aplastic shoulder.
Now Im going to a pain clinic and they are giving me all kinds of potent stuff, which I mostly legitimately needed for the pain.. I stopped going to the methadone clinic, used up what I had saved, and then just took pain pills. Walla, no longer was I on methadone. But as we know I did have a bigger problem.
Well after a few or several months , it was time to get off this stuff. Hah. Every time I go thru withdrawels I become a bigger baby each time. And Im talking about the early part, like if I cough or my nose starts to itch (im exagerating a little)--but I didnt have it in me to cold turkey it. I was on some real hard core stuff and I was scared, cause I really didn't know what to do.
I was not going to get on methadone again and I was not going to kepp using. These in patient detox were thousands of dollars above what my insurance covered. I knew of 1 option peopleon here post about- SUBOXONE.
The biggest problem i was having was finding a Dr who prescribed it in my area. A COUPLE OF REALLY GREAT PEOPLE FROM THIS BOARD TOOK THE time and trouble to find Drs in my area that did it.
THERE ARE SOME REALLY GREAT PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD.
Anyway, I found a place about 1/2 hr from here, went there, (u have to be dope sick when u first take it or for reasons i dont understand, it will give u withdrawels) Anyway, this stuff actually worked.
IT IS NOTHING LIKE METHADONE. YOU DONT GET HIGH,BUT IT BLOCKS UR CRAVINGS. IF YOU DO try something, it doesn't work. MY POINT IS, I BELIEVE THIS IS AN EXCELLENT TOOL TO FIGHT ADDICTION
You're right.It is a tool but you have to follow through on some type of recovery plan or it's no different than standing in line at the methadone clinic.
Change comes from inside and my advise is in order for you to get the most out of Sub is to start a treatment plan.Either Na or some group therapy.You've been around long enough to know all this.Inaction will only keep producing the same results.
Change comes from inside and my advise is in order for you to get the most out of Sub is to start a treatment plan.Either Na or some group therapy.You've been around long enough to know all this.Inaction will only keep producing the same results.
both methadone and suboxone are wonderful tools in getting clean if you actually use them for that reason. i know too many people who are on them and get high the whole time. it sorta defets the purpose of being on them. i know you won't get as sick while using ontop of the meth, but you still don't feel 100%. as for the subs, well many people have discovered how to get high on these. which i don't get. there is a huge problem around here with people using subs to get high. so when used in a correct way to get off the dope, you have tons of hoops to jump through. the doctors are atleast wise to this and drug test more and more before they just give out subs. as for methadone, well i do think its a drug, but i also believe it the 1st step into getting clean. its a way to not have to withdrawl, and to get off the streets. it gives you the opportunity to learn how to live a sober drug free life, if you actually choose too. now a big problem with meth is people are on too high of doses. i know these are clinics in my area that will bump you up to more than 150mgs. which is crazy!! 100mgs is alot. i did the whole meth thing, i was on 80mgs and was one of the highest doses at my clinic. i was using 3 bundles a day when i went to the clinic. the biggest problem i found with the methadone was i nodded when i was at a high dose. i totaled my car, nodded off driving down a hill side swipped 4 cars, nodded off hit parked cars, cars at red lights, ect... its terrible. i was only taking my meth and nothing else. everyday at 4pm i would nod so hard it was unreal. this went on for 8 month, till i relized it wasn't fun anymore. and i started to come down. it took 2 years to detox off correctly. 10mgs-, 5mgs- 3mgs- 2mgs- 1mgs- 1/2mgs to nothing. it was one of the scarest thing i ever did, once i hit 30 mgs i started using on top of the meth, i was scared. then i realized all i am doing is f*cking up what i have worked so hard to do. why throw away all this time, i spent 5 years on the meth. . and i had my ups and downs with it. but it saved my life. something i couldn't do with suboxone was stay clean. 2 wks after getting off suboxone i was using. i actually did the suboxone route before methadone. which is backwards i know. but when i did the subs, my doctor just gave me my script and sent me on my way, there was no prrogram and no way to learn to live a sober/clean life. it was a matter of time before i relasped and i did. i think what it comes down to is how you work it. either meth or subs can work, if you work them. ie, meetings, groups, conseling somthing so you can learn how to live a healthy sober life. but both subs and meth can also creat a bigger problem than you began with if you choose to not work them and choose to get high and whatever on them. getting high on both can kill you. and your not fooling anyone, at the clinic or your doctors. they are there to help not to hurt you. using doesn't hurt them. and once i realized this i was able to work with the tools being offered to me.
as for the price, well up here its a slidding scale at the clinics, it goes from $100 a week to what your income says you can afford. but many people are covered by medical assistance or the county. the county will pick it up if you don't have health insurance or private insurance they only take goverment insurance at the clinics here. so if you make enough money you pay, if you don't you can still get in with the county paying. up here it a clear liquid, that they add orange drink too. omg it taste terrible. anyways, a big problem around here is that those who are using on top of the meth sell it. it goes for a $1.00 a miligram on the streets. so there is a huge problem with street methadone up here. its like the suboxone. alot of people get prescibed 32mgs so they can turn around and sell all but he actual 8mgs they are taking. subs are expensive on the streets. but as with anything, we are drug addicts we will pay and do what ever it takes ot get our drugs.
i don't recommend meth or suboxone as a first resort, i was my last resort. i didn't want to end up dead in a gutter. or on my couch with my kids running around. any tools that help in recovery are great, but i do think you need to think long and hard before starting a methadone program or suboxone program. cause just like rehab it won't work till your ready and untill you work it right.
raerae
as for the price, well up here its a slidding scale at the clinics, it goes from $100 a week to what your income says you can afford. but many people are covered by medical assistance or the county. the county will pick it up if you don't have health insurance or private insurance they only take goverment insurance at the clinics here. so if you make enough money you pay, if you don't you can still get in with the county paying. up here it a clear liquid, that they add orange drink too. omg it taste terrible. anyways, a big problem around here is that those who are using on top of the meth sell it. it goes for a $1.00 a miligram on the streets. so there is a huge problem with street methadone up here. its like the suboxone. alot of people get prescibed 32mgs so they can turn around and sell all but he actual 8mgs they are taking. subs are expensive on the streets. but as with anything, we are drug addicts we will pay and do what ever it takes ot get our drugs.
i don't recommend meth or suboxone as a first resort, i was my last resort. i didn't want to end up dead in a gutter. or on my couch with my kids running around. any tools that help in recovery are great, but i do think you need to think long and hard before starting a methadone program or suboxone program. cause just like rehab it won't work till your ready and untill you work it right.
raerae
Tim & RaeRae, thanks for your insightfull comments. I can see you have been around the block quite a few times.
Rae, I'm not sure where u are from, but u are right about these ridiculousl high doses they give at many places. In Florida, most of these for profit clinics let u go higher then an addict would have dreamed possible.
When I lived in Buffalo, the highest anyone got was 100 MGS---And that was for people with big time habbits, usually dealers habits. Man Rae, when I hear u were doin 2 bundles a day , even though it was a long time ago, and I don't know you, I feel like a sad shiver of the hell your life had become (even if it came to you easy) and the hopelessness and fear that always had to be a part of your existance. And 80 mgs was enough, from ur description it sounds like it was a little more then u needed. I remember I was on around 40 & it did me fine, though they increased me and I never objected, and of course if u got an opiat dirty they automatically brought u up. But I remember being on70 for a little bit and I coulnt function. Back then to get on methadone, I remember it was treated seriously- U really had to be , or at least come off as heroin addict.
Now, at least in the for profit places,,, many of the clinics seem to be 'drug dealers, or worse. Im not suggesting that all the counselers or nurses are bad,-but -overall , but when they acceps people in the program who are on codiene or tramadol, and many people are on crazy doses, I was on 160 & i knew of people on over 300 mgs, and if u dont have ur $13.00 , too bad for you
Im sorry , im gettin too tired to finish my point- but i think methadone, is a real rescue boat sometimes. Thank God for the salvation or the way out it offers a person.
But the flip side of it is that in many cases it is simply a drug being abused. good nite t
Rae, I'm not sure where u are from, but u are right about these ridiculousl high doses they give at many places. In Florida, most of these for profit clinics let u go higher then an addict would have dreamed possible.
When I lived in Buffalo, the highest anyone got was 100 MGS---And that was for people with big time habbits, usually dealers habits. Man Rae, when I hear u were doin 2 bundles a day , even though it was a long time ago, and I don't know you, I feel like a sad shiver of the hell your life had become (even if it came to you easy) and the hopelessness and fear that always had to be a part of your existance. And 80 mgs was enough, from ur description it sounds like it was a little more then u needed. I remember I was on around 40 & it did me fine, though they increased me and I never objected, and of course if u got an opiat dirty they automatically brought u up. But I remember being on70 for a little bit and I coulnt function. Back then to get on methadone, I remember it was treated seriously- U really had to be , or at least come off as heroin addict.
Now, at least in the for profit places,,, many of the clinics seem to be 'drug dealers, or worse. Im not suggesting that all the counselers or nurses are bad,-but -overall , but when they acceps people in the program who are on codiene or tramadol, and many people are on crazy doses, I was on 160 & i knew of people on over 300 mgs, and if u dont have ur $13.00 , too bad for you
Im sorry , im gettin too tired to finish my point- but i think methadone, is a real rescue boat sometimes. Thank God for the salvation or the way out it offers a person.
But the flip side of it is that in many cases it is simply a drug being abused. good nite t
Giving someone Methadone for a pill addiction is akin to killing a fly with an atomic bomb.However,getting one's Methadone dose down far enough to switch to Suboxone seems like a good move.
I'm not an expert on Suboxone but I have done some reasearch on it.2mg of Suboxone is quite strong not to mention it's about 100x stronger than Morphine.It may not seem that way because it's a partial antagonist.You can get high off Suboxone if you're opiate naiive.As little as .02 mg will get you high as a kite.The demand on the streets for it is not so much as to get high but it's like gold with IV heroin users who can't score and don't want to go into w/d's.An 8mg sub can go for as much as $40.
Someone taking 16mg. is over-kill.After about 8mg.it starts it's antagonistic properties.
Europe and France have long battled IV Subutex abuse because it doesn't have naloxone in it.Buprenex is an IV pain killer that has .0324 mg/ml.That's roughly almost 10x stronger than a 2mg. dose of buprenorphine.In Europe it's sold as Temegesic in .02 and .04 tablets.
Using it as a tool for recovery is effective as long as counseling and participating in a recovery group is added.It gives the addict enough time to stop the drug seeking behavior to allow them some time to change.
I'm not an expert on Suboxone but I have done some reasearch on it.2mg of Suboxone is quite strong not to mention it's about 100x stronger than Morphine.It may not seem that way because it's a partial antagonist.You can get high off Suboxone if you're opiate naiive.As little as .02 mg will get you high as a kite.The demand on the streets for it is not so much as to get high but it's like gold with IV heroin users who can't score and don't want to go into w/d's.An 8mg sub can go for as much as $40.
Someone taking 16mg. is over-kill.After about 8mg.it starts it's antagonistic properties.
Europe and France have long battled IV Subutex abuse because it doesn't have naloxone in it.Buprenex is an IV pain killer that has .0324 mg/ml.That's roughly almost 10x stronger than a 2mg. dose of buprenorphine.In Europe it's sold as Temegesic in .02 and .04 tablets.
Using it as a tool for recovery is effective as long as counseling and participating in a recovery group is added.It gives the addict enough time to stop the drug seeking behavior to allow them some time to change.
Brown dog I used to think that you had to be nuts to go on Methadone but I have learned from reading the heroin board and other forums that like suboxone if used correctly /its a wonderful drug.
I personally as you have read are a big sub fan.
It saved my life but that is because I had no other choice. I truly was living in a blackout for months due to all the oxycontin and benzos.
Browndog are you involved in a 12 step program? Your sub doc what type of aftercare does he/she have you on?
You write its an excellent tool to fight our disease YES but alone you will not succeed in working on the true reasons why you use drugs in the first place.
JMO--you need a strong after care program along with the sub.
Jeff
I personally as you have read are a big sub fan.
It saved my life but that is because I had no other choice. I truly was living in a blackout for months due to all the oxycontin and benzos.
Browndog are you involved in a 12 step program? Your sub doc what type of aftercare does he/she have you on?
You write its an excellent tool to fight our disease YES but alone you will not succeed in working on the true reasons why you use drugs in the first place.
JMO--you need a strong after care program along with the sub.
Jeff
i;m in Pittsburgh PA. the herion problem here is outragous!!. i was raised with money and a pretty good home life. i went to a great school, with well off kids. i grew up with steelers player like rod woodson living up the street. you would think all this would be great, but all this did was fule my addiction. since i was 9 i had nothing else todo, and me and my friends started drinking and drugging. by the time i entered the methadone clinic i was 12 yrs into my addiction, many attemps to get clean, tried the suboxone route it didn't work. methadone was my last resort my only life raft left. because of this i honestly am greatful for methadone. but now adays up here everyone is getting on methadone. its really sad, there are 18yr old kids getting on when they only have used 2/3 months and had to deal with their 1st real withdrawl. now, the clinic i went too wasn't a pay clinic, so they held a better guidline than the pay clinics. its also why the doses aren;'t as high. this clinic is actually turning away pill addicts and short time users looking for a quick fix to their problems. they refere pill addicts to private doctors for their withdrawl, its stupid to even think they would put someone on 50mgs of methadone for a pill habit of 200mgs vicodin or whatever. methadone is way too much i believe for these reasons. i honestly believe methadone in a clinic setting should be for herion addicts and oxy users, i;m sorry but it what i believe. now i have also done the suboxone route, and its clearly something that light users shouldn;t be put on. i was on 32mgs for a 3 bundle day habit, and it was way too much. i would take 8mgs a day and sell the rest. now if going from 3 bundles or more a day to 8mgs is the same as someone taking 30/40 percs/vics a day i must have missed something. there is no way someone taking vics or percs need something as strong as a herion addict. i think this is big reason why there is a big suboxone problem here. everyone is on them but only taking 1/4 of the mgs thay are prescibed. and selling the rest they go for $10 for 8mgs here. i know alot of people here have done the suboxone route and i'm not kicking you. i just don't understand how someone taking vics or perc is given a drug designed for a herion user. no way are percs equal to herion. (i'm not saying your addiction is any less than mine, i'm just saying the doses are'nt the same) please correct me if i'm wrong. i'm not trying to start a war here, but i honestly think methadone and suboxone are last resort type medicines. and they should be used as your only life raft left. for i am greatful for methadone it saved my life.
hmm i sorta lost my tain of thought and rambled on, sorry. but i hope you understand what i'm saying.
raerae
hmm i sorta lost my tain of thought and rambled on, sorry. but i hope you understand what i'm saying.
raerae
I understand what you're saying.
Methadone is cheap.Dirt cheap compared with suboxone.It's also a very good pain medication for chronic pain like cancer.It does the same thing as Oxycontin at about 1/16th of the price.It has an extemely long half life and people without insurance benefit from it.Yes, it's probably the worst drug to detox off of but if you're dying or have uncontrollable pain,that's not an issue.
You have to educate yourself on both drugs to see if the benefit outweights the cost.Do research other than what the drug companies put out too.Their bottom line is profit,to think otherwise is naiive.
Methadone is cheap.Dirt cheap compared with suboxone.It's also a very good pain medication for chronic pain like cancer.It does the same thing as Oxycontin at about 1/16th of the price.It has an extemely long half life and people without insurance benefit from it.Yes, it's probably the worst drug to detox off of but if you're dying or have uncontrollable pain,that's not an issue.
You have to educate yourself on both drugs to see if the benefit outweights the cost.Do research other than what the drug companies put out too.Their bottom line is profit,to think otherwise is naiive.
suboxone Like any other Med is for people with a drug plan and decent insurance no different than getting a blood pressure med?
Over and over I read about negatives about suboxone. Its not suboxone its your INSURANCE.
My shrink/addiction specialist cost me 30 $ a visit out care intensive therapy free -and suboxone ? 50 bucks a script. The key if your on a drug plan is if you have built up trust to get the most pills legally allowed by doctor to prescribe in a 30 day period.
When I started with my doctor in 2004 I was getting 120 pills for 50$ and paying her 30 a week and within a month it was a bi weekly meet and buy the end of 8 months ? I do not remember.
You going to compare this to what a typical addict used $$$ wise to keep his her habit?
Jeffrey
Over and over I read about negatives about suboxone. Its not suboxone its your INSURANCE.
My shrink/addiction specialist cost me 30 $ a visit out care intensive therapy free -and suboxone ? 50 bucks a script. The key if your on a drug plan is if you have built up trust to get the most pills legally allowed by doctor to prescribe in a 30 day period.
When I started with my doctor in 2004 I was getting 120 pills for 50$ and paying her 30 a week and within a month it was a bi weekly meet and buy the end of 8 months ? I do not remember.
You going to compare this to what a typical addict used $$$ wise to keep his her habit?
Jeffrey
Tim for me methadone if generic would be 15$a month versus 50$ for a Branded Formulary drug like suboxone.
Again not a terrible cost difference.
Jeffrey
Again not a terrible cost difference.
Jeffrey
Wow, We addicts, or recovering addicts, area complicated and interesting people - and we try to be merciful in our judgements towards others, though some of us, with out realizing it are tougher on our self then we need be.
By the way, many of u have been very helpful to me over the years in all kinds of ways. I imagine a lot of others could say that also. As crazy as this might sound, 1 guy, simply by the use of his name, gave me a clear hope and a positive belief that a real option really existed for me, and it was more honest , and offered me what I saw as clear self respect and dignity. What I am talking about here would probably be at best a big question mark to many straight people who have not fought this disease, and even for many people on this board it would require something I would have to describe as a courageous willingness to take a step of faith to think outside their normal comfort zone as to their core beliefs of what 'real recovery' is. My belief ,no matter how objective and honest I try to be, is obviously stongly influenced by what I have for the most part ,learned to acccept as living a drug free life- a life of a somewhat produtive citizen who no longer was a part of the illegal, dangerous world of non-life.
BOY, SOMETIMES IT TAKES ME A s***HOUSE FULL OF WORDS to get to my point. (I'm just afraid that without laying a sound foundation, the point would be trivialized)
Well, one day about a few ears ago I started seeing posts signed by Suboxman, I can't remember most of his posts- But what I immediately picked up on ( and It always came thru) Was that Suboxman was unafraid and unashamed. He stood tall. He had not discovered magic or the elixer of life,
But I could tell he found something that was really helping him
I had heard of suboxen and been very interested in trying it. This was somewhere around maybe 2002, or so. I had heARD dRS. COULD PRESCRIBE IT- but it didnt seem easy to get.
I stopped in gainesville methadoneclinic they said they have it soon: $25 a day. Wow.
At about that time i had fallen back into what i sort of thought of just dabblin a bit.
A few years earlier, around 2000, we moved from Buffalo to Ala. This was to quit drugs (sorta-thats what my wife thought) Anyway,fortunately a few months
before we moved i was fairly clean for me.
In ala i made a point of no front line contacts, and i was down to maybe 30 mgs of methadone, with maybe a couple hundred mgs saved up to detox,& i thought id be ok, and that clinic was always comin up w somethin stupid and i kinda politely told em to f off, & about a week later maybe 2 i was out of all, and i did not like those meth wds at all, espec when i was working.
anyway i was clean for a little bit after we moved to florida. but being in the construcion bus, well there is stuff around
after a couple years of usin, my shrink suggested i get back on meth- which made sense but was a bad thing to do, especially since i dint let her know for a year.
But, except for all my tangents ,I THINK I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY , IS ADDICTION AND RECOVERY ARE NOT black and white subjects.
I REMEMBER LAST WEEK WHEN I STARTED THIS POST IT WAS to say hi to anyone who missed me, and I was hoping that if there were some new people trying to quit that i had stuff interesting enough to get them to read it and provide them with some good help for their time of trouble.
This post turned uut to benefit me a lot
Im also starting to realize not just the obvious, that there ismore to recovery thennot using-------BUT ALSO THINGS LIKE THE IDEA BEHIN WHAT COWGIRL BROUGHT UP
AND THERE ARE IDEAS WE HAVE AS RECOVERING ADDICTS, - AND CERTAIN THINGS WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS ALMOST GOSPEL REGARDING CERTAIN BEHAVIOUR-
FINALLY-I DO NOT BELIEVE WEAS A NATION HELP ENOUGH WITH DAMAGE CONTROL
By the way, many of u have been very helpful to me over the years in all kinds of ways. I imagine a lot of others could say that also. As crazy as this might sound, 1 guy, simply by the use of his name, gave me a clear hope and a positive belief that a real option really existed for me, and it was more honest , and offered me what I saw as clear self respect and dignity. What I am talking about here would probably be at best a big question mark to many straight people who have not fought this disease, and even for many people on this board it would require something I would have to describe as a courageous willingness to take a step of faith to think outside their normal comfort zone as to their core beliefs of what 'real recovery' is. My belief ,no matter how objective and honest I try to be, is obviously stongly influenced by what I have for the most part ,learned to acccept as living a drug free life- a life of a somewhat produtive citizen who no longer was a part of the illegal, dangerous world of non-life.
BOY, SOMETIMES IT TAKES ME A s***HOUSE FULL OF WORDS to get to my point. (I'm just afraid that without laying a sound foundation, the point would be trivialized)
Well, one day about a few ears ago I started seeing posts signed by Suboxman, I can't remember most of his posts- But what I immediately picked up on ( and It always came thru) Was that Suboxman was unafraid and unashamed. He stood tall. He had not discovered magic or the elixer of life,
But I could tell he found something that was really helping him
I had heard of suboxen and been very interested in trying it. This was somewhere around maybe 2002, or so. I had heARD dRS. COULD PRESCRIBE IT- but it didnt seem easy to get.
I stopped in gainesville methadoneclinic they said they have it soon: $25 a day. Wow.
At about that time i had fallen back into what i sort of thought of just dabblin a bit.
A few years earlier, around 2000, we moved from Buffalo to Ala. This was to quit drugs (sorta-thats what my wife thought) Anyway,fortunately a few months
before we moved i was fairly clean for me.
In ala i made a point of no front line contacts, and i was down to maybe 30 mgs of methadone, with maybe a couple hundred mgs saved up to detox,& i thought id be ok, and that clinic was always comin up w somethin stupid and i kinda politely told em to f off, & about a week later maybe 2 i was out of all, and i did not like those meth wds at all, espec when i was working.
anyway i was clean for a little bit after we moved to florida. but being in the construcion bus, well there is stuff around
after a couple years of usin, my shrink suggested i get back on meth- which made sense but was a bad thing to do, especially since i dint let her know for a year.
But, except for all my tangents ,I THINK I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY , IS ADDICTION AND RECOVERY ARE NOT black and white subjects.
I REMEMBER LAST WEEK WHEN I STARTED THIS POST IT WAS to say hi to anyone who missed me, and I was hoping that if there were some new people trying to quit that i had stuff interesting enough to get them to read it and provide them with some good help for their time of trouble.
This post turned uut to benefit me a lot
Im also starting to realize not just the obvious, that there ismore to recovery thennot using-------BUT ALSO THINGS LIKE THE IDEA BEHIN WHAT COWGIRL BROUGHT UP
AND THERE ARE IDEAS WE HAVE AS RECOVERING ADDICTS, - AND CERTAIN THINGS WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS ALMOST GOSPEL REGARDING CERTAIN BEHAVIOUR-
FINALLY-I DO NOT BELIEVE WEAS A NATION HELP ENOUGH WITH DAMAGE CONTROL
Hey Dog...so good to see you alive and kicking.
Nope, wasn't a man that thought that question up (how dare you) it was a friend and her sponsor...lol
I have nothing to contribute on the discussion of methadone...I've just heard the horror stories and not one that it was useful. Sub however...well, we all know how I feel about that now. So I won't repeat myself.
Anyway..it is so good to see you here old Dog...wish you'ld stick around.
Nope, wasn't a man that thought that question up (how dare you) it was a friend and her sponsor...lol
I have nothing to contribute on the discussion of methadone...I've just heard the horror stories and not one that it was useful. Sub however...well, we all know how I feel about that now. So I won't repeat myself.
Anyway..it is so good to see you here old Dog...wish you'ld stick around.
i went 4 year being clean and believing as long as i didn't use everything was okay. well guess what i relasped, and everything wasn't ok. for 4 yrs i pushed everything down instead of dealing with them. i didn't want to deal cause that ment feeling and risking relasps. well i relasped anyways, so where did it get me. absolutly nowhere but back to square one. well one thing it did get me was a wake up. just being clean is just that. being clean. but living a clean sober healthy life is completly different. learning to live healthy and sober the right way takes alot. there are so many reasons why i use and these reasons i need to deal with. learning is the greatest tool to recovery. the more you understand about yourself and your addiction, the better equipt you are to fight it. and the better your chances of staying clean. it doesn't matter what tools you use ie methadone, suboxone, rehab, meetings, ect... but how you use them. you can be given all the tools in the world but never use them to your benifits. i just hope you are well. best to you and in learning the road ahead of you might not be easy and might be rocky, but sooner or later the rocks settles and the road levels. making your journey easier, and your recovery easier. and your staying clean easier. we all need to learn. and i just hope we all can get it before its too late.
hope your well tonight
raerae
hope your well tonight
raerae
I talked to a friend today who just lost her nephew on Sunday from a methadone overdose.
He was 19, not really an addict, just experimenting. He took too much on top of drinking. It is so sad.
He was 19, not really an addict, just experimenting. He took too much on top of drinking. It is so sad.
icowgirl,
ts sad. there are so many OD's from methadone from people experimenting, most are those who don't have a high tolerance to opiates. esp herion and oxy's. there have been alot of OD's here outside of the methadone clinic population. people buy it on the street and don't realize the strenght of methadone. its truely sad. and i'''m so sorry for your loss.
hang in there.
rae
ts sad. there are so many OD's from methadone from people experimenting, most are those who don't have a high tolerance to opiates. esp herion and oxy's. there have been alot of OD's here outside of the methadone clinic population. people buy it on the street and don't realize the strenght of methadone. its truely sad. and i'''m so sorry for your loss.
hang in there.
rae
You make a good point Rae. It's about tolerance and someone who is experimenting does not have the tolerance of a seasoned user. I am so scared for kids these days that are buying this kind of s*** off the streets.
I'm real sorry Cowgirl. I remember years ago how easy it would have been for me to OD on methadone simply because of lies. I remember someone selling me supposedly 30 mgs, (this is a long, long time ago, before i had ever done methadone the first time) and it did almost nothing. Then I bought supposedly 100 mgs and that didnt do much more.
Probably what I bought was something watered down to 5 or 10 mgs., but I cant imagine at the time if I thought I needed over 100 to get high and i actually got what that much, it probably easily would have been an OD.
To me (you mostly know how I feel) that is just another one of the many dangers of the war on drugs. So many unnecessary deaths.
Anyway, as FAR AS BEING CLEAN WITHOUT BEING CLEAN, i KNOW what u mean there RaeRae. I was clean for over 12 years and pretty unhappy for over 12 years though I tried to be a good man.
Learning to live and love life from the inside out as I know it can be done----thats the thing. Thats more then drug free, thats what I think a big part of life is supposed to be.
THATS WHAT I NEED TO LEARN, INTERNALLY
Probably what I bought was something watered down to 5 or 10 mgs., but I cant imagine at the time if I thought I needed over 100 to get high and i actually got what that much, it probably easily would have been an OD.
To me (you mostly know how I feel) that is just another one of the many dangers of the war on drugs. So many unnecessary deaths.
Anyway, as FAR AS BEING CLEAN WITHOUT BEING CLEAN, i KNOW what u mean there RaeRae. I was clean for over 12 years and pretty unhappy for over 12 years though I tried to be a good man.
Learning to live and love life from the inside out as I know it can be done----thats the thing. Thats more then drug free, thats what I think a big part of life is supposed to be.
THATS WHAT I NEED TO LEARN, INTERNALLY
Just for the heck of it, I'll share my easiest opiate withdrawal story.
I was on hydrocodone, which always give me hell when I kick, so I transferred the addiction to oxycodone, which are a little easier to kick. Then, I went a day or so to get dope sick and took Darvon.
I know, Darvon is some weak s***, but it cured my dope sickness, so it must be opiate based.
I stayed on just enough Darvon to keep from getting sick for a week to let all the other stuff get out of my system. Then I quit Darvon. I can kick of Darvon standing on my head Not a big deal (at least for me.) I didn't even take a day off work.
I related this to my sub doc. He went to his reference books and said yes, this seemed to be a good option. He was willing to try it on me, but I didn't have the time, so I just crawled in bed and went cold turkey of the H.
I think, if done properly, this step down approach would work off Methadone, Oxycontins, H, whatever.
I know I'd try it before I'd mess with Suboxone. But that's maybe cause the bad experience I had with Sub.
That's the acute phase withdrawal... Then comes the plan to stay clean for life. I'm still working on that.
M
I was on hydrocodone, which always give me hell when I kick, so I transferred the addiction to oxycodone, which are a little easier to kick. Then, I went a day or so to get dope sick and took Darvon.
I know, Darvon is some weak s***, but it cured my dope sickness, so it must be opiate based.
I stayed on just enough Darvon to keep from getting sick for a week to let all the other stuff get out of my system. Then I quit Darvon. I can kick of Darvon standing on my head Not a big deal (at least for me.) I didn't even take a day off work.
I related this to my sub doc. He went to his reference books and said yes, this seemed to be a good option. He was willing to try it on me, but I didn't have the time, so I just crawled in bed and went cold turkey of the H.
I think, if done properly, this step down approach would work off Methadone, Oxycontins, H, whatever.
I know I'd try it before I'd mess with Suboxone. But that's maybe cause the bad experience I had with Sub.
That's the acute phase withdrawal... Then comes the plan to stay clean for life. I'm still working on that.
M
I agree that darvon or darvocet is real good to help with withdrawels. It is 2/3 the chemical structure of methadone (whatever that means)
But I think people (myself included) underestimate the power of darvon. I have heard when u get a real jones on it (yes, people actually learn to like that crummy high) the wd is not supposed to be too pleasant.
I also seem to remember a few years back in a pdr or somewhere that it was the number 1 drug that people OD'd and died on. Even as I write this, I know it doesn't sound true, but I am pretty sure, no I'm real sure, that I read that.
Also, I did have a friend die from a darvon OD. But from what I heard he was at the point of taking handfulls at a time and drinking. I kind of think it was something between an OD and suicide, if that makes sense.
But I think people (myself included) underestimate the power of darvon. I have heard when u get a real jones on it (yes, people actually learn to like that crummy high) the wd is not supposed to be too pleasant.
I also seem to remember a few years back in a pdr or somewhere that it was the number 1 drug that people OD'd and died on. Even as I write this, I know it doesn't sound true, but I am pretty sure, no I'm real sure, that I read that.
Also, I did have a friend die from a darvon OD. But from what I heard he was at the point of taking handfulls at a time and drinking. I kind of think it was something between an OD and suicide, if that makes sense.
rae,browndog,tim, im truly at my wits end. im scared old and tired. my spouse came home ofcourse no money. im like what happened. mine u he is again on meth program. this time he wanted to be on it he says he was so tired of being broke sick u know the whole bit. bla bla. comes home no money and he is looking for something to pawn im like why, he is like well i owe money, im like why if your not using.he is like well so and so got out of jail and wants his money. so i was like u told me u paid off everyone, hes like well i forgot about this one.( really honest i dont want to use.) he was like you dont have any money i was like your lucky your eating that peach.(i said well they r just gonna have to beat your a**.) now i know that wasnt nice but i cant support this and i truly dont know if he is telling me the truth. if i thought it was really true maybe i would help this time. idk, so he was looking around for little things left to pawn he was like f--k it ill take the bose system. i was like no your not, i yelled that i said i wont let u do that. he was like ok ok and left. the back of my head is numb. now im thinking of removing those kind of items so when im not here he wont pawn them. i dont care about the bose i care about him, but if i let him take it it will never stop. guys please what do i say or do. i know he has to do this and im sure he does too. i want to kick his a**. i hope u can say that online. i want to leave and run away. but if i do the mortgage wont get paid its almost paid for why should i do that. and then he will probly sell all thats in it. hes almost 60 isnt that scary. i feel like i need some pills, i would never do that cause all this looks so hard to go thru. i do feel his pain all your pain. i dont think he feels mine. or why the relapse. ok guys my prayers are truly with u all stay strong. about a month ago or so i read jackofhearts a day in the life and it talk about cleaning the cotton he was like thanks for reminding me. and he was like dont read that its just gonna make u sick. he has no insurance i did years ago and he went to 2 rehabs never stayed the full time. but finally got it together for like 17 yrs. and he we go again. i think the behavior is worse maybe cause hes older. who knows.
