Hey there Living Life Anyway, I saw your post on Ella's thread and really thought that we should welcome you with your own thread.
Thanks for your post on that other thread, I am replying here. Rehab is helpful but plenty of people have made it without rehab. I know you are pretty uncomfortable right now, and you are not going to like what I have to say:
Getting clean is the easy part. Staying clean is much, much harder. Most people on this board have gotten clean plenty of times only to relapse. This is part of the disease of addiction. We have to deal with both the physiological and emotional components, and the emotional stuff trips up most of us in the beginning.
Most of those on this board who have put together any serious time at all have done so by developing a working a program of personal recovery.
How about you tell us a little about yourself, and reach out for help. There is a collective wisdom on this board that is pretty amazing.
The solutions are simple, and you can live life clean, but the you have to do the work and that takes a commitment to doing things differently in your life.
Let us know how you are doing,
August
Thank you for replying. I am a 49 year old mother of three teenagers. I am very very involved with the church youth group and that is the reason I can't really come out about this. I have severe pain issues from three auto accidents but the hydrocodone and percocets got away from the pain only and have become a lifestyle. My hardest part of this is that I had a brain injury 13 years ago. Believe it or not, when I am on the painkillersm, my brain functions a little better. What I believe I need to do is find a good doctor who specializes in brain disorder and get on something for that issue. I took ritilin before and it didn't do any good, After becoming so addicted to the hydrocodone and the percs I am scared to go on anything. Right now I have just told everyone that I have the flu. I am in bed and feeling better but need encouragement to keep going!
I am on day 3. What was the worst day of your withdrawals and what day did you actually go back out from house or wherever? I am having my 18 year old son drive the others to school and church even though he doesn't have his unrestricted license yet, so please pray for them. He is good and cautious, but I am worried. I did not want to wait any longer to go off the meds, though, so I did it when I had a weekend I could. I am sure that there probably are some people who know about the problem, I am not stupid - however I really don't think anyone knows exactly. My 16 year old son overhead me lying on the phone to the dentist so I think he may have a clue. My husband doesn't yet, but I will end up with him knowing, I am sure because of the charges to my credit card. I ended up using internet doctors and I know several are in trouble - I could be found out. I want to get out from under the drug first and then mop up the mess.
LLA, can you give us some specifics regarding how much you were using before you quit? My guess is that you are in the middle of the worst of it right now. It could start easing up as early as tomorrow or the next day.
LLA, I do not wish to make light of you your brain injury, but I will offer that it is rare to find someone with an addiction problem who does not believe they function better on the drugs than without them.
Heck for me they made my personality shimmer, gave me courage, added 25 points to my I.Q., helped me concentrate, eased my depression, and helped me access the deepest creative wells of my existence.
Of course this was all a lie that my addiction told me to keep me using. Opiates are depressants. They make us feel better (for awhile) but my guess is that they do not improve brain activity. That is a question for your specialist, and I would urge you to be honest with him. He cannot disclose what you say to him under law unless you sign away that right.
It takes time for our brain to heal, and my guess is that a specialist might help you get there without the opiates.
Others may offer suggestions but I would recommend warm baths for the restless legs, and hot tea and bad movies to ride it out. Lots and lots of fluids. Personally, I found it was better to be around people than alone.
Give us some more info and we have our experts weigh in (there are a lot of folks around here who should qualify as PhDs in drug abuse).
Good luck, hang in there,
August
LLA, I do not wish to make light of you your brain injury, but I will offer that it is rare to find someone with an addiction problem who does not believe they function better on the drugs than without them.
Heck for me they made my personality shimmer, gave me courage, added 25 points to my I.Q., helped me concentrate, eased my depression, and helped me access the deepest creative wells of my existence.
Of course this was all a lie that my addiction told me to keep me using. Opiates are depressants. They make us feel better (for awhile) but my guess is that they do not improve brain activity. That is a question for your specialist, and I would urge you to be honest with him. He cannot disclose what you say to him under law unless you sign away that right.
It takes time for our brain to heal, and my guess is that a specialist might help you get there without the opiates.
Others may offer suggestions but I would recommend warm baths for the restless legs, and hot tea and bad movies to ride it out. Lots and lots of fluids. Personally, I found it was better to be around people than alone.
Give us some more info and we have our experts weigh in (there are a lot of folks around here who should qualify as PhDs in drug abuse).
Good luck, hang in there,
August
Thank you for your honesty August. I do get what you are saying about the drugs lying to you. I know that once I started using too much, I was not operating at my best. At small doses I was. Problem is, you can't stay at small doeses with an opiate.
I was up to 20 10/325's a day for the past 2 months. I was using 10 a day for about 6 months prior to that and prior to that much less. It really went out of control very recently. Not that it makes much difference - for me any bit is too much.
I am feeling much better but then I get a trigger and not only feel like I want to take a pill but the w/d comes back with that feeling. Like having all of my family here for my son's graduation and eagle scout ceremony in mid May. When I got a call from my sister saying her family was coming, I realized that there were just a few weeks before the event and I haven't even sent out announcements. It really made me want to try to get some pills and try again after that event. So far I have resisted.
By the way, my email address is livinglifeanyway@yahoo.com if anyone wants to email me. I don't have it up all the time, though, as I don't want my family to read it.
Thanks so much for your encouragement.
I was up to 20 10/325's a day for the past 2 months. I was using 10 a day for about 6 months prior to that and prior to that much less. It really went out of control very recently. Not that it makes much difference - for me any bit is too much.
I am feeling much better but then I get a trigger and not only feel like I want to take a pill but the w/d comes back with that feeling. Like having all of my family here for my son's graduation and eagle scout ceremony in mid May. When I got a call from my sister saying her family was coming, I realized that there were just a few weeks before the event and I haven't even sent out announcements. It really made me want to try to get some pills and try again after that event. So far I have resisted.
By the way, my email address is livinglifeanyway@yahoo.com if anyone wants to email me. I don't have it up all the time, though, as I don't want my family to read it.
Thanks so much for your encouragement.
LLA, August West 2004 here, under a different screen name. Don't ask it is a long boring story.
200 mg is a pretty substantial dose. You were wise to try to wean off now in that you are probably teetering on the edge of some advanced addiction issues.
Tim is the best resource to tell you about coming off a dosage at this level. Hopefully he will look in later and respond to this thread. My best guess is that if you are on day 3 of cold turkey, you may begin to feel a little better by Wednesday.
LLA, most people on this board will tell you that you need to flush your entire supply of pills, and you need to tell on yourself to your doctor(s) and your pharmacists(s). Most people are not successful with a slow taper; cold turkey is the best way to go although you are going to feel pretty awful for a few days as you well know.
You will hit a turning point. For me, I spent about 5 hours and time just froze, so it seemed longer. After that, time started moving again and I felt a little better about 24 or 36 hours later. All withdrawals have that crux moment.
LLA, you are doing great with your withdrawal and we are all rooting for you on that one.
I want to talk about your plans for staying clean, though. Your brain has been saturated with opiates to the point where it has forgotten how to manufacture the natural chemicals (endorphins) that give us a general sense of well-being.
As the result, when we come off the opiates, we often come to face to face with deep, dark depression, intense mood swings, and lethargy. We also suffer from weakened impulse control.
This creates a perfect storm, where often we resort to taking just one pill to ease the pain and misery of moving through the day. Inevitably this leads us back to our previous level of usage and most of us actually get worse after a relapse.
We have to learn how to cope while our brain "remembers" how to manufacture those endorphins. We do this by addressing physical issues like diet and exercise.
Just as importantly if not more so, we have to find a community of recovering addicts (sorry, online forums do not count) and start learning how to cope with life during this healing process on a day-by-day basis. Your chances of staying clean without a program of personal recovery are slim to none.
The program with the strongest track record is the 12 Step program which centers on acceptance of our condition, a strong grounding in a spiritual life, and disciplined approach to personal honesty and accountability. It is not a bad way to live one's life.
You already have a belief in God and that is a good start, but it is only the start. Only a community of recovering addicts will be able to understand what you are gong through. We do not advocate a cure for addiction as much as an acceptance of this aspect of our nature and a commitment to living a spiritual life that allows us to live free of our obsession to use.
You will find nothing that is inconsistent with your beliefs, but it is very important that you find the time to get involved in this community from the get-go.
And from the get go, I mean right away. I know that is a lot to swallow so I will stop here for now.
Let me know if you want to hear more.
Hang in there,
August
PS: It is great that you want to be there for your son's Eagle Scout ceremony. I was an Eagle Scout, but then I began drinking and smoking dope, and when I woke up, I was in my mid thirties!
200 mg is a pretty substantial dose. You were wise to try to wean off now in that you are probably teetering on the edge of some advanced addiction issues.
Tim is the best resource to tell you about coming off a dosage at this level. Hopefully he will look in later and respond to this thread. My best guess is that if you are on day 3 of cold turkey, you may begin to feel a little better by Wednesday.
LLA, most people on this board will tell you that you need to flush your entire supply of pills, and you need to tell on yourself to your doctor(s) and your pharmacists(s). Most people are not successful with a slow taper; cold turkey is the best way to go although you are going to feel pretty awful for a few days as you well know.
You will hit a turning point. For me, I spent about 5 hours and time just froze, so it seemed longer. After that, time started moving again and I felt a little better about 24 or 36 hours later. All withdrawals have that crux moment.
LLA, you are doing great with your withdrawal and we are all rooting for you on that one.
I want to talk about your plans for staying clean, though. Your brain has been saturated with opiates to the point where it has forgotten how to manufacture the natural chemicals (endorphins) that give us a general sense of well-being.
As the result, when we come off the opiates, we often come to face to face with deep, dark depression, intense mood swings, and lethargy. We also suffer from weakened impulse control.
This creates a perfect storm, where often we resort to taking just one pill to ease the pain and misery of moving through the day. Inevitably this leads us back to our previous level of usage and most of us actually get worse after a relapse.
We have to learn how to cope while our brain "remembers" how to manufacture those endorphins. We do this by addressing physical issues like diet and exercise.
Just as importantly if not more so, we have to find a community of recovering addicts (sorry, online forums do not count) and start learning how to cope with life during this healing process on a day-by-day basis. Your chances of staying clean without a program of personal recovery are slim to none.
The program with the strongest track record is the 12 Step program which centers on acceptance of our condition, a strong grounding in a spiritual life, and disciplined approach to personal honesty and accountability. It is not a bad way to live one's life.
You already have a belief in God and that is a good start, but it is only the start. Only a community of recovering addicts will be able to understand what you are gong through. We do not advocate a cure for addiction as much as an acceptance of this aspect of our nature and a commitment to living a spiritual life that allows us to live free of our obsession to use.
You will find nothing that is inconsistent with your beliefs, but it is very important that you find the time to get involved in this community from the get-go.
And from the get go, I mean right away. I know that is a lot to swallow so I will stop here for now.
Let me know if you want to hear more.
Hang in there,
August
PS: It is great that you want to be there for your son's Eagle Scout ceremony. I was an Eagle Scout, but then I began drinking and smoking dope, and when I woke up, I was in my mid thirties!
Thank you. I did look online to see about NA and am considering going to a meeting. I already did a little research on a board about withdrawals and am taking vitamins, DLPA, and Tyrosine to try to help with energy and getting my brain to feel good. I need to start exercising. I only wish my addiction to endorphins would lead me to a great exercise life!
Thank you so much for all of your encouragement. I know that I need it from all angles that I can get it from.
Barb
Thank you so much for all of your encouragement. I know that I need it from all angles that I can get it from.
Barb
By the way, I was also told to take kratom, but I decided not to, because i think I could get addicted to that. Does anyone have any opinion on that?
Hi Living - Congratulations on your clean time. That is great! Our stories are alot alike. I am a 48 year old with two young teenage girls. I have been helping out in their schools since the pre-school days. Baking cupcakes with a little chemical assistance. The problem was I couldn't get out of bed without same assistance. It is such a horrible way to live. I too thought that I was getting "extra help" with them. I always knew I had a problem but figured I wasn't harming anyone but myself. I thought that if I stopped the pills and got them out of my system, I would be "back to normal". Not exactly the case.
It will get better in time. Just take it one day at a time. You've worked hard to get these three days. I think in another three you'll be feeling a whole lot better. Keep coming back and listen to August. He is one of our resident experts.
It will get better in time. Just take it one day at a time. You've worked hard to get these three days. I think in another three you'll be feeling a whole lot better. Keep coming back and listen to August. He is one of our resident experts.
Kratom...beware
First lets take a quick look at how kratom works. Kratom contains a number of active components, so-called alkaloids, of which mitragynine is believed to be responsible for most of its effects. Mitragynine is an opioid agonist, meaning that it has an affinity for the opioid receptors in your brain. These receptors influence ones mood and anxiety. Mitragynine binds to these receptors and improves your mood and gives a euphoric-like feeling, just like opiates such as heroin and opium. The big difference between kratom and opiates is that mitragynine prefers so-called delta opioid receptors, while opiates bind to mu opioid receptors.
sounds like an opiate to me.
The most effective way to get off opiates is to get off opiates.That sounds a little simplistic if not sarcastic but unfortunately it's the truth.You could go on an opiate replacement that will buy you some time but eventually you will want to get off those.Sometimes the "cure" is more difficult to get off than the problem.
Opiate detox is not life threatning.You will have 3-5 days of some very intense flu-like symptoms.There are OTC remedies that will help but IMO they only provide moderate relief.The biggest culprit I found was the lack of sleep but still that won't kill you.You have to push yourself through it.You also have to have a plan in advance on how to deal with the urges when they hit.......and they will.
NA or AA will be a good place to start.Everyone there will understand what you're going through because they've gone through it.You will have your upwardly mobile housewife,student and hard core bikers all in the same room doing the same thing.Trying to stay clean for 24 more hours.Go in there with an open mind and realize that you're not unique.
Yes,exercise.Start eating a healthy breakfast and taking a multi-vitamin.As far as spending a lot of money on additional supplements? If you have it and believe they will work,go for it.
First lets take a quick look at how kratom works. Kratom contains a number of active components, so-called alkaloids, of which mitragynine is believed to be responsible for most of its effects. Mitragynine is an opioid agonist, meaning that it has an affinity for the opioid receptors in your brain. These receptors influence ones mood and anxiety. Mitragynine binds to these receptors and improves your mood and gives a euphoric-like feeling, just like opiates such as heroin and opium. The big difference between kratom and opiates is that mitragynine prefers so-called delta opioid receptors, while opiates bind to mu opioid receptors.
sounds like an opiate to me.
The most effective way to get off opiates is to get off opiates.That sounds a little simplistic if not sarcastic but unfortunately it's the truth.You could go on an opiate replacement that will buy you some time but eventually you will want to get off those.Sometimes the "cure" is more difficult to get off than the problem.
Opiate detox is not life threatning.You will have 3-5 days of some very intense flu-like symptoms.There are OTC remedies that will help but IMO they only provide moderate relief.The biggest culprit I found was the lack of sleep but still that won't kill you.You have to push yourself through it.You also have to have a plan in advance on how to deal with the urges when they hit.......and they will.
NA or AA will be a good place to start.Everyone there will understand what you're going through because they've gone through it.You will have your upwardly mobile housewife,student and hard core bikers all in the same room doing the same thing.Trying to stay clean for 24 more hours.Go in there with an open mind and realize that you're not unique.
Yes,exercise.Start eating a healthy breakfast and taking a multi-vitamin.As far as spending a lot of money on additional supplements? If you have it and believe they will work,go for it.
Thank you for all of your kind advice. I thought that was probably the case with the kratom, that was why I was reluctant to take it. I just want to be done. I got through one more day! I did take some melatonin last night to sleep and although I woke up often, I did sleep several hours. I still feel like doodoo and it is day 4. Please pray for God to be mercifiul to be me and get me through this quickly so that I don't relapse in order to get back into my life. I have a doctors appointment today to get my refills and it is taking everything I have to not go to this appointment. Please pray for me.
Why are you going to that appointment? That's a big set up.Does this concern a critical health issue? If this is unavoidable,I would tell your doctor you are an addict and not to give you any prescriptions.
LLA, What Tim said. If you get those refills, it is going to be very difficult to not take "just one" to feel a little better.
Tell on yourself. Remember what I wrote about personal recovery involvement a spiritual life. That life is based on a principle of rigorous honesty.
Hang int here, keep posting.
August
Tell on yourself. Remember what I wrote about personal recovery involvement a spiritual life. That life is based on a principle of rigorous honesty.
Hang int here, keep posting.
August
This appointment is the annual med check to continue to get the pain killers. I am feeling so crummy right now that I am really wanting to go to the appointment and just feel better and try this again later. I know that I shouldn't and it won't be any better next time, so I am just praying and praying that I have the strength to stay away.
The problem is that "later" may rob your life of years of clean living.
Four years ago I was determined to quit. I was administering a pain pill to my mom and out of habit I swallowed it. As soon as I realized what I had done, I was secretly thrilled. I could have put my finger down my throat and threw it up but I didn't. It took me four years to make another honest effort.
I found out that all the praying I did was in vain. God didn't help me until I did something to help myself. Tell on yourself to your doctor and your husband. The burden will be lifted.
Four years ago I was determined to quit. I was administering a pain pill to my mom and out of habit I swallowed it. As soon as I realized what I had done, I was secretly thrilled. I could have put my finger down my throat and threw it up but I didn't. It took me four years to make another honest effort.
I found out that all the praying I did was in vain. God didn't help me until I did something to help myself. Tell on yourself to your doctor and your husband. The burden will be lifted.
If you take a pill, you will have to start all over. You're that much ahead of the game right now if you don't take any more narcotics. Your withdrawal symptoms will ease up as time goes by. You're not going to feel normal for awhile but you will get there. Like Tim and August said, tell on yourself and ask for help. It's the only way, you can not do this by yourself. It will only progress and get worse. Like you, I'm 49 and a mother of three grown boys. I did this dance for 26 years before I finally got scared enough to quit. My health was a big deciding factor in that. I didn't want to die. I wanted to see my grandchildren (I have 2 now), my sons married...retirement and travel with my husband. There is so much good in life, so much that we yet have to see and do. The longer you stay addicted, the longer you stay stuck and unable to do any of those things happily.