Hi everyone. First off, let me preface this by saying I've been involved in AA for the last ten years (sober since July 30 after a brief relapse), and that I'm a guy. For some reason I've only recently begun to notice the amount of lecherous men in this program. They're usually lonely, having ruined the relationships they were in (with their wives and daughters) before they got sober. They don't go to bars, and so are limited in their searches for women (especially younger ones). They are usually co-dependent and looking for a nice young girl, either newly-sober, mentally ill, or both, that they can fix, a re-enactment of their broken past relationships. And ultimately, getting sex out of it is the major goal, though most men would likely insist their goals are not so base.
The incident that prompted me to reflect on this is as follows: I have an old family friend in the program who has been in and out of AA and has serious mental health issues. She's been in locked psych wards twice in the last four months, and has recently been to the emergency room numerous times for suicidal tendencies and depression. She's heavily medicated, to say the least, and though she has stopped drinking, she continues to struggle with her addiction to sedatives. But she's also young and quite attractive, and that seems to make her a target for some AA men. Currently, she's heavily-involved with a much older man (he's twice her age, 60 -something vs. 32), who met her in an AA meeting recently.
Is it just me or is something wrong here?
Do the ladies who have been in AA awhile know what I'm talking about? It's really turning me off of the program. I'd be interested in hearing from someone with experience on this issue. Are my observations justified, or am I just looking for an excuse to drink again, or both? Do I need to just disregard the "snakes" of AA and stick with the winners?
Yeah, I know, "mind my own business" and "live and let live" and all that, maybe I'll come to realize that soon but right now I'm just kind of grossed out.
Thanks for letting me share.
I hear what you're saying and I try to keep the thoughts and actions of people OUTSIDE the meeting separate from mine.....
I try to remember that alcohol is just a symptom of problems other than the actual drinking itself....
"live and let live" to me means I don't get involved with too much that dos'nt effect me directly ....
I focus on the people who seemingly have something I want which is chactorized by the way they carry themselves and points of views they express and you can usually tell who's got the morals and standard of living you want regardless of the time they have sober....
I know a few guys with very lengthy sobriety that come into meetings that walk around like the place owes them something with the personal morals of a cavemen.....
I have no interest in hearing what they say before or after a meeting and more times than not I have little interest in hearing what they have to say DURING the meeting...
on the other hand I've met a lot of great people who I really look forward to seeing !
AA membership dos'nt require anyone to be a saint
I try to remember that alcohol is just a symptom of problems other than the actual drinking itself....
"live and let live" to me means I don't get involved with too much that dos'nt effect me directly ....
I focus on the people who seemingly have something I want which is chactorized by the way they carry themselves and points of views they express and you can usually tell who's got the morals and standard of living you want regardless of the time they have sober....
I know a few guys with very lengthy sobriety that come into meetings that walk around like the place owes them something with the personal morals of a cavemen.....
I have no interest in hearing what they say before or after a meeting and more times than not I have little interest in hearing what they have to say DURING the meeting...
on the other hand I've met a lot of great people who I really look forward to seeing !
AA membership dos'nt require anyone to be a saint
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| ... I've been involved in AA for the last ten years ... I'm a guy ... For some reason I've only recently begun to notice... sex is the major goal.. incident that prompted me...family friend... She's been in...psych wards...emergency room numerous times...suicidal tendencies and depression. She's heavily medicated, to say the least, and though she has stopped drinking, she continues to struggle with her addiction to sedatives...she's also young and quite attractive, and that seems to make her a target for some AA men. Is it just me or is something wrong here? |
Firstly, welcome.
"It's called "13th Stepping," and it's like clubbing baby seals or hunting cripples," and old-timer said once. I even asked 24G and VWGirl about it, among others, when I was a bit younger in sobriety. I can't be responsible for someone else's recovery or their program, because they WILL let me down. Expectations Are Resentments Waiting to Happen....
For ME, if I've got some personal involvement or contempt with someone in the rooms, it's usually MY problem. Eiether I don't like what they're doing because it reminds me of ME, or I don't like what they're doing because of my Knight-In-Shining-Armor complex. I think when *I* feel someone else's actions, over which I have no control, are suddenly affecting me, there's something wrong with me. It wasn't always that way, and I felt I needed to be the Protector, PeoplePleaser, etc. She needs protection from HERSELF, firstly! Doesn't sound like it's her first trip to the rodeo.
Would you be feeling the same for a woman that you didn't know? Or one that wasn't "quite attractive," as you put it?
Being a female and been on the other side of the coin, I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't like feeling like I am prey, which is actually exactly how I feel. SKG, I respect what you are saying and totally agree that when something is bugging me about someone else, it usually signals something I don't like about myself. However, in this regard, I have a hard time seeing how I am personally accountable. Unwanted attention may just be that, unwanted. Lately I go to meetings in sweats, don't put on any makeup, and make it very clear when someone is hitting on me that I am just not interested. Anyway, just wanted to put my two cents in.
I agree, Zipper, but you're not jimxmas, the guy that posted. Look, there are creeps everywhere--not just in meetings. Women are far more accustomed to getting "hit on" and aware of when/where/how it happens. 13th Stepping has no more appropriateness in a meeting than out. ME taking responsibility for YOU in a meetings is just as inappropriate.
EDITED: I just read your "dress in sweats" comments--I've seen that before, too. Not everyone in the meetings is there for the best of intentions--like you've observed. I merely suggest that YOU, a woman, are far more capable of saying "NO," than a dude is--and far more delicately, too. The meeting's other ladies, if there are any, 'know the toads,' and can warn her. Bottom line: She may not WANT to be warned. I know that I can not take responsibility for her actions.
EDITED: I just read your "dress in sweats" comments--I've seen that before, too. Not everyone in the meetings is there for the best of intentions--like you've observed. I merely suggest that YOU, a woman, are far more capable of saying "NO," than a dude is--and far more delicately, too. The meeting's other ladies, if there are any, 'know the toads,' and can warn her. Bottom line: She may not WANT to be warned. I know that I can not take responsibility for her actions.
Exactly...we are on the same page, SKG. :) I like going to women's meetings for this very reason. When I go to other meetings with men I make it pretty dang clear I am not interested by saying, "I am not interested"! Imagine that. :)
Hugs
Hugs
And where are the women with some time while all this is going on? I think they should be taking her under their wing and keeping the creeps at bay but I have found that not all women want to be taken under wing. Some have to learn the hard way. I did. I can't believe the creeps I dated in early recovery before I got a decent sponsor. Yuck! My favorite saying of the day...just because we're sober doesn't mean we're well and that goes for men and women. On the other hand, there are creeps everywhere, not just in AA/NA.
Thank you for your replies and your welcome. skg, I agree with you that I need to look at my part in all this and be focused on my own recovery, especially with less than one year back in. I've been familiar with 13th stepping for awhile now, for some reason it just grossed me out a little more than usual, I guess since it's someone I know well. So no, to this point I haven't felt the same when it happened to a woman I didn't know; it still disgusted me, but my feelings weren't nearly as strong. As for the attractive part, I think I would feel the same way regardless. A friend is a friend and I think I do feel protective of her (BTW I'm gay). But I think she has to deal with lecherous guys alot more than someone who wasn't as attractive would. I hesitate to offend anyone but I think it's just the truth.
As for the other ladies in AA, she does have some support, but many ladies stay clear of her due to the drama factor (she tends to offend others easily) and she's also fairly stubborn if she's made a decision (like "that guy will be good for me!). Again, I guess I need to look at my own involvement in all this and let her figure out her own path....
Thanks again for the replies, I do agree that there are creeps everywhere. Though hopefully they are easier to avoid than when they confront you in a social setting like a meeting. I just think it's an unfortunate part of AA, but I suppose it's unavoidable. Take what you need and leave the rest behind, right?
As for the other ladies in AA, she does have some support, but many ladies stay clear of her due to the drama factor (she tends to offend others easily) and she's also fairly stubborn if she's made a decision (like "that guy will be good for me!). Again, I guess I need to look at my own involvement in all this and let her figure out her own path....
Thanks again for the replies, I do agree that there are creeps everywhere. Though hopefully they are easier to avoid than when they confront you in a social setting like a meeting. I just think it's an unfortunate part of AA, but I suppose it's unavoidable. Take what you need and leave the rest behind, right?
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| 12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities... |
Of course, you're welcomed to your own conclusions....
Acceptance...Acceptance...Acceptance...Acceptance...Acceptance...Acceptance...
Any time you get a group of women and men in the same room guess what happens? Sex reares its ugly head.It's being going on for centuries.
The problem is most of it's pure unadulterated lust and has very little with working any step besides #13.
There is no accident why it is suggested you refrain from romatic involvements the first year.
And just to piss the women off they can be the biggest culprits with this behavior.
We came,we came to,we came to believe.We didn't walk down the aisle.
The problem is most of it's pure unadulterated lust and has very little with working any step besides #13.
There is no accident why it is suggested you refrain from romatic involvements the first year.
And just to piss the women off they can be the biggest culprits with this behavior.
We came,we came to,we came to believe.We didn't walk down the aisle.
As someone who came to realise my own alcoholism ONLY because I went to open AA meetings about someone else's "problem".......if this is going to threaten your sobriety (or even if not)....you might like to read some Al-anon literature or try a meeting....I've seen a few AAers come into Al-anon even thought they've got years of sobriety and don't feel it's at risk....because focusing on another's "problems", worrying about them, wanting to protect them....it can be another, perhaps less obvious cross-addiction ....it can certainly screw with your serenity even if it doesn't undermine your sobirety.....you might not want or need to attend Al-anon on a regular basis but they certainly have some good ways of looking at boundaries from THAT friends and family perspective - which is subtly different from looking at our own from the inside, if you see what I mean.
Hope that makes sense...
As Skg said, acceptance is the key...it's just the same beast viewed from a different perspective....
Hope that makes sense...
As Skg said, acceptance is the key...it's just the same beast viewed from a different perspective....
