I have never been on sub and hopefully will never need to be. I have been on methadone. I didn't know about sub at the time that I started on methadone. I was on m-done for over 2 years. I did everything by the book. I never had a dirty u/a and I never missed a counseling appt. I weaned down very slowly, like 2mg a week. I had to jump off at 10mg which is a very low amount. It was horrible. I had w/d's for 2 weeks and eventually relapsed on lortabs. I was so angry that my doctor hadn't told me about sub. It seemed like a much better route to take with much less side effects. But now I am reading that people are having a hard time coming off sub. Obviously sub is still the safer route to take as m-done has become the number one drug in drug related deaths. I just wonder if anyone has been on both at different times and come off them both the proper way, weaning down as low as possible. Is coming off sub easier then coming off m-done?
Shelly
Sub is easier thanb methadone and incidentally jumping off methadone at 10mg is too high.
Either way, if you stay on Sub or methadone for an extended period you will get some withdrawals at the end - that is unavoidable. The key is to have good medical support and to be mentally ready.
Either way, if you stay on Sub or methadone for an extended period you will get some withdrawals at the end - that is unavoidable. The key is to have good medical support and to be mentally ready.
The easiest way? Dont' replace one drug for another.
Cold turkey or taper off of the pain meds and then go through the withdrawals for a few days and then your done. Of course counselling and some sort of recovery support program is a must to stay clean.
Cold turkey or taper off of the pain meds and then go through the withdrawals for a few days and then your done. Of course counselling and some sort of recovery support program is a must to stay clean.
Replacing one drug for another? That is how you see suboxone therapy? I disagree with you Lisa.
Suboxone with an addiction specialist is IMO the best way to really learn how to stay sober. For many reasons --but we have gone over the pros and cons and we all have our own opinions.
For me it was like chemotherapy for my cancer- Saved my life.
Suboxone with an addiction specialist is IMO the best way to really learn how to stay sober. For many reasons --but we have gone over the pros and cons and we all have our own opinions.
For me it was like chemotherapy for my cancer- Saved my life.
I understand it's a tool Jeff...I didn't say it wasn't. I just stated the easiest way to get clean.
Isn't the goal to stay clean?
I agree silent partner. I would have been much better off going c/t and doing meetings and therapy then going on m-done. M-done took away 2 years of my life and a lot of money. In the end I was worse off then when I was on lortab. I relapsed and had no choice but to go c/t. I thank God now that it's been almost a year since I went c/t. I do therapy and have been to meetings but I know I should be going regularly. I guess each person is different and what works for one may not work for another. I think one of my critical mistakes was that while on m-done I didn't get any therapy or try to start making changes in my life to prepare myself for after m-done. I know a lot of people here that are on sub are working towards getting there life in order.
SHelly
SHelly
It is better to stay clean and sub certainly has it's place in helping that goal along...but you have to agree, that you are replacing one drug with another.
I have seen sub save alot of lives...but should you use it forever? What are the life time effects of this drug, does anyone know? At least with working a 12 step program or counseling, you don't have to worry about a potent chemical in your body for the rest of your life. That's what I mean by easier. But truthfully, there is no "easy" way. Whatever you do to stay clean and sober is very hard.
I have seen sub save alot of lives...but should you use it forever? What are the life time effects of this drug, does anyone know? At least with working a 12 step program or counseling, you don't have to worry about a potent chemical in your body for the rest of your life. That's what I mean by easier. But truthfully, there is no "easy" way. Whatever you do to stay clean and sober is very hard.
Lisa,
I see what you mean, replacing, however, it does not get the addict high, it prevents us from getting high. If i was replacing, it would be with another straight opiate, not one with an opiate blocker in it.
The long-term affects, I am not sure of, but, I see it like Jeff does, the chemo for his cancer. It takes the physical ill away, but, you are left with the mental deal, and sub makes it eaier to cope. When you stop, it brings physical w/d's and some just aren't ready. Some docs believe it should be long~term, I like the short term usage, as with any drug, you have to wean eventually, the shorter with sub, the easier.
From what I have read, it is a walk in the park compared to methadone, coming off of it. It isn't as stong, I believe as meth and therefore, easier to get it out. But, it lasts sooo long, that sometimes the w/ds don't hit for 3-4 days, but, if you plan it , its easier...with opiates, you can't plan, it's take as many as you can, for me anyways.
Just my .02, there cowgirl,
You take care, Lucky
I see what you mean, replacing, however, it does not get the addict high, it prevents us from getting high. If i was replacing, it would be with another straight opiate, not one with an opiate blocker in it.
The long-term affects, I am not sure of, but, I see it like Jeff does, the chemo for his cancer. It takes the physical ill away, but, you are left with the mental deal, and sub makes it eaier to cope. When you stop, it brings physical w/d's and some just aren't ready. Some docs believe it should be long~term, I like the short term usage, as with any drug, you have to wean eventually, the shorter with sub, the easier.
From what I have read, it is a walk in the park compared to methadone, coming off of it. It isn't as stong, I believe as meth and therefore, easier to get it out. But, it lasts sooo long, that sometimes the w/ds don't hit for 3-4 days, but, if you plan it , its easier...with opiates, you can't plan, it's take as many as you can, for me anyways.
Just my .02, there cowgirl,
You take care, Lucky
All of what I said is just my "2 cents". Everything I know, is from what I've read or in talking to people who were or are on sub. Let me make this perfectly clear, I am NOT against it. I know that for some, it has been a god send. Had I known about it when I was trying to get clean? Probably would have taken it. I was so desperate. I really do get it. I just think that all other options should be tried before going on something like sub and most definately, methadone.
Only you know, those that are on sub, know what you have to do. And hopefully you work with a really smart dr who can lead you through it. I just don't think it's the miracle "cure all" that some say it is. It is a powerful narcotic, one that should be respected and thoughly thought out before taking it.
Only you know, those that are on sub, know what you have to do. And hopefully you work with a really smart dr who can lead you through it. I just don't think it's the miracle "cure all" that some say it is. It is a powerful narcotic, one that should be respected and thoughly thought out before taking it.
I've said this before and not everyone agreed with me but that's ok too. My take on it is when I got clean I did it because I was tired of being dependant on any kind of drug.I was tired of worrying about did I have enough to last the day and was tired of worrying about running out and going into withdrawals. If I had gone on sub I would still be worrying about the same things I was concerned with when I was using drugs to get high. I wasn't enjoying the buzz any more, it was nonexistant unless I took a lot of pills. I was using just to keep withdrawals at bay. If I had gone on sub I would still be dependent on a drug and that wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be clean. Period. For me, it was worth the withdrawals just to get off pills and yeah, it was hard and I was miserable for a few months but I got better and I never have to worry about what I'm going to feel like when I quit taking something. I agree sub is a wonderful tool for some but I don't think its necessary for everyone.
Lisa + Kat,
Absolutely agree, would love to be non-dependent on a drug forever, but, factually, is that a possibility? I know that the w/ds are horrible , either way, I just believe its a tool, as I have said before. Some use this and f2f, it works, others use c/t+N/a, and it works. Every recovery reccomended to me by me, well,it never worked, and the sub, reccomeneded by professionals, has.
I am at a stage in my life where I have no choice but to be healthy, and if sub is part of that , for now, so be it. Days are so hectic that, if I were physically sick, I would have noone to care for my kids. I have to be well, for them, for now.
In the future, I plan to be 100% clean, healthy, and happier. On the advice of the professionals that I had to see, I have used it to keep me on the path that I have to be on , for now.
I just considered the topic, Meth vs Sub, and from what I have learned, sub is the lesser of the two evils, so to speak. And it saved me from utter destruction, perhaps if I went c/t, got thru detox, kicked out after 3 days with no after plan/help, I wouldn't need the sub, but, I know it was neccessary for my recovery, and this isn't the 1st time I have had to fight for life, its just the one I wasn't strong enough to do on my own .
Total Respect for all opinions, believe me, I know how all stand, and I hope we can continue discussing the pros/cons of sub, as I think there are many misconceptions about it in the online community, which hurts the helpless. I have addressed a Dr that goes on the Sub board, to ask him some ?'s, as I am curious to things that I haven't addressed with my doc yet.
Hope all are well,
Take care,
Lucky
Absolutely agree, would love to be non-dependent on a drug forever, but, factually, is that a possibility? I know that the w/ds are horrible , either way, I just believe its a tool, as I have said before. Some use this and f2f, it works, others use c/t+N/a, and it works. Every recovery reccomended to me by me, well,it never worked, and the sub, reccomeneded by professionals, has.
I am at a stage in my life where I have no choice but to be healthy, and if sub is part of that , for now, so be it. Days are so hectic that, if I were physically sick, I would have noone to care for my kids. I have to be well, for them, for now.
In the future, I plan to be 100% clean, healthy, and happier. On the advice of the professionals that I had to see, I have used it to keep me on the path that I have to be on , for now.
I just considered the topic, Meth vs Sub, and from what I have learned, sub is the lesser of the two evils, so to speak. And it saved me from utter destruction, perhaps if I went c/t, got thru detox, kicked out after 3 days with no after plan/help, I wouldn't need the sub, but, I know it was neccessary for my recovery, and this isn't the 1st time I have had to fight for life, its just the one I wasn't strong enough to do on my own .
Total Respect for all opinions, believe me, I know how all stand, and I hope we can continue discussing the pros/cons of sub, as I think there are many misconceptions about it in the online community, which hurts the helpless. I have addressed a Dr that goes on the Sub board, to ask him some ?'s, as I am curious to things that I haven't addressed with my doc yet.
Hope all are well,
Take care,
Lucky
I think of it as we were feeding the beast to keep it quiet, FK. The pleasure was long, long gone and it had become a dreadful and mind consuming chore to stay out of wd.
Like Lisa, I would have went the Sub route too if it had been available. I was highly dissapointed that it was not. (I never even heard of Sub until I came to this board)
In retrospect, I am so glad it wasn't available to me.
You get on Sub, you get a taste of what clean feels like, (or some close proximaty) but you still have to ingest a med everyday and ultimately...and very slowly come off.
People say it saves lives. Maybe. Sobriety saves lives so if it helps get you there, so be it. However, I've seen some very difficult struggles coming off Sub.
Some of the side effects of that wd appear more difficult than getting off opiates. I'm one hundred percent anti Methodone. I'm not anti Sub but I think it's something that should never be taken lightly.
xxxxxooooo
Like Lisa, I would have went the Sub route too if it had been available. I was highly dissapointed that it was not. (I never even heard of Sub until I came to this board)
In retrospect, I am so glad it wasn't available to me.
You get on Sub, you get a taste of what clean feels like, (or some close proximaty) but you still have to ingest a med everyday and ultimately...and very slowly come off.
People say it saves lives. Maybe. Sobriety saves lives so if it helps get you there, so be it. However, I've seen some very difficult struggles coming off Sub.
Some of the side effects of that wd appear more difficult than getting off opiates. I'm one hundred percent anti Methodone. I'm not anti Sub but I think it's something that should never be taken lightly.
xxxxxooooo
Just want you to know Lucky, that I respect you and what you're doing. It takes what it takes.
Agreed that I am prolonging the inevitable, yet, this is how the professionals handled this with me. I went in to detox, knew some about sub, nothing about recovering. Now I know about sub, recovery, clear-thoughts, and none of that would be possible if I didn't raise my hands and give up, the drugs kicked the crap out of me, and frankly, sub saved me.
I don't use it as an in between-opiates-thing, yes, its a chemical, but, it has allowed me to sound, act, look like the old me....and it protects me~no opiates on sub, its a safety net.
Would I have preferred the clean, total c/t, no rx's, even my b/p meds that I take, yes, but, the fact is, I am trying to stay clean from opiates as they almost cost me everything, not just myself, but, my kids. I am 99% responsible for most duties here at home, and c/t wasn't going to happen. It took me 2 years to build this habit, I need some time to take it down....and leaving my kids to do that wasn't an option.
I have been to the add.doc with heroin users, and I can tell you, it has saved some of their lives, no doubt. I see the improvement in them, and they are so much better than in the beginning. They say this sub has maintained their keeping off of heroin, and I see that they are truly trying, not just there doing the routine to keep the w/d's away. They are doing their time, f2f, and urine tests. I connect with them, I am an addict, and I like them, we talk in the lobby or smoking, and we feel the same hurts, and we want off the sub, but, for now, I am further ahead than my doctor expected me to be, and I am happy with just that~
I am doing only as the professionals have advised, as the stress factors, triggers, in my life will be here daily. So, until I make some changes, I must maintain with the sub, or I will think I can diagnose myself again, and thats not a good idea, it almost cost me everything when I played doctor~
Take Care All,
Lucky
Thanks, Lisa, ((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
Kat, as always, I totally reapect your opinions and thoughts. I learn from them all. Thank you~
I am absolutely happy that you both didn't do the sub route, (you didn't have the choice) also, but, I was too sick to decide for me, and the docs made the choices for me, had they just given me clonidine, in d/t, I would have survived.....They didnt need to put me on sub, in retrospect, I would have been fine there, but, when home, a relapse would have been inevitable w/out the sub, 100% 4 sure, and I think they knew that.
I don't use it as an in between-opiates-thing, yes, its a chemical, but, it has allowed me to sound, act, look like the old me....and it protects me~no opiates on sub, its a safety net.
Would I have preferred the clean, total c/t, no rx's, even my b/p meds that I take, yes, but, the fact is, I am trying to stay clean from opiates as they almost cost me everything, not just myself, but, my kids. I am 99% responsible for most duties here at home, and c/t wasn't going to happen. It took me 2 years to build this habit, I need some time to take it down....and leaving my kids to do that wasn't an option.
I have been to the add.doc with heroin users, and I can tell you, it has saved some of their lives, no doubt. I see the improvement in them, and they are so much better than in the beginning. They say this sub has maintained their keeping off of heroin, and I see that they are truly trying, not just there doing the routine to keep the w/d's away. They are doing their time, f2f, and urine tests. I connect with them, I am an addict, and I like them, we talk in the lobby or smoking, and we feel the same hurts, and we want off the sub, but, for now, I am further ahead than my doctor expected me to be, and I am happy with just that~
I am doing only as the professionals have advised, as the stress factors, triggers, in my life will be here daily. So, until I make some changes, I must maintain with the sub, or I will think I can diagnose myself again, and thats not a good idea, it almost cost me everything when I played doctor~
Take Care All,
Lucky
Thanks, Lisa, ((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
Kat, as always, I totally reapect your opinions and thoughts. I learn from them all. Thank you~
I am absolutely happy that you both didn't do the sub route, (you didn't have the choice) also, but, I was too sick to decide for me, and the docs made the choices for me, had they just given me clonidine, in d/t, I would have survived.....They didnt need to put me on sub, in retrospect, I would have been fine there, but, when home, a relapse would have been inevitable w/out the sub, 100% 4 sure, and I think they knew that.
I base this on my sub doctor as within my first week on suboxone I was already demanding to know when i would be off it.
This is how I came off sub thye first time--The hardest for me mentally at the end but it was actualy a brreeze w/d wise WHY? I listened to my doctor
She explainedto me how we would work together and wean started at 8mg -then 7-6-5-4-3-2--dropping 1 mg a month and at 2mg we cut slower and at the end started in june 2004 off it feb 2005
Why did I succeed I worked hard with my doctor to really accept no more partying. And she said If i was not willing to work on my character defects I coudl find another doctor to see. She really knew how to push my buttons but man when I finally stopped bullspitting her one appointment I will never forget I was waiting for my usual you know jeffrey your working hard --BUT silence she got up and hugged me and said your on your way.
3 days after being off sub I developed MRSA and almost died PAIN they cut me twice rightr by my hip replacement all my family was flown in as I was Dead according to the doctors well I was HIGH DRIP DRIP DRIP my old man came in after the operation in a moon suit and I was told I was singing some f-ed up song about space my prior history my dear friend who died was talking to him constantly (RAVING LUNATIC WAS I) I was ranting the nurses /parents told me for 3 days If I had died I woudl have went without knowing anything. First 5 days blackout the last 4 days and next year of my life the hardest fight I ever had.
I was so angry --My sub doctor kept telling me to stop feeling sorry for myself. i gained a lot of weight my attitude was in the crapper but then something happened to me--"spiritual awakening? No just a friend who knew what to say as she was living in hell herself and she understood what to say to me.
This person was my best friends sister she is on and off meds depression smokes her brains out but clean no problems there--she is just angry.
She lost her brother and father within a year to sickening painful the worst types of cancer my buddy had his leg amputated to prevent the cancer from spreading but they were wrong cut him twice in the chest before he thank god passed.
He had Lung cancer chain smoked since age 14 dies at 38--
His dad never smoked was adoctor took great care of himself and was dead in 9-10 months from time he lost his son. They would drain his blood pint by pint and this would give him 2-3 days of decent living then the pain would come back eventually this procedure wore him down and he passed.
Sorry for the ramble but this subject really hits home for me exscuse the spelling iam tyoing as fast as I can mistakes a second.
Anyway Suboxone IMO must go hand in hand with a 90-90 AA get a sponsor and you must have an addiction specialist if POSSIBLE someone who understanads our disease.
If you have asthma you do not go to a gyncologist you go to a pulmonologist.
How long should you be on sub iMO 8mg --6-8 months all depends on the person.
I do not understand people staying on suboxone for a long tiome as the longer your on it the tougher the mental fight to get off. Longterm affects?? I have read people being given 24-32 mg of the stuff??
I am no doctor I repeat what worked for me and what my doctor uses to treat all her patients. I am sure there are other ways to use sub but thisis my story.
Some doctors use 12 mg to start all doctors have there own way of prescribing. JMO but if you get suboxone from a reg M.D then your wasting your time as the first 30 days you need to be monitored daily and reg doctors donot offer this
Obviously we all have different insurance and $$$ in the bank--It sickens me that the government does not offer any addict these meds and a bed in a GOOD REHAB just kills me.
The government will get you hooked on methadone as its a money maker for evreyone. Keeps the addicts functioning so to speak and well the government?LMAO they are the best--OH MAN what ajoke.
Some people have had positive results with methadone but the stuff long term just eats you alive.
And its so hard to get off of as an addict. Shoot some zanax and meth? you have a heroine high.
in 2001 I walked into a rehab and has so many mg of multiple drugs zanax a lot and they gave me 10 mg of methadone I was so HIGH 3 days I was on methadone until my levels came down and then when they said no more meth? I freaked
I was hooked right there on the spot That is scary man It was all the zanax in my system as by the thirdday I was just buzzed but the first 2 days WOW
The funny thing is I went to this rehab as I was determined to get off these barbituates I was taking since I was a kid. Well my doctor who had no clue of my oxy zanax alcohol etc said Jeff 2-3 weeks maximum I said OKIE DOKIE
Man did I get a wake up call. This rehab was important as I got healthy and my counselor in 2001 aqdvised me to get divorced that my marriage mY ex was sabatoging my chance art recovery.
Back then I thought WTF is she talking about? mY ex was a loving wife we have 2 great kids etc etc but man she put the education in front of me and boy did I learn.
Due to circumstances leavingmy girls no way was i leaving my little one until she was 3-4 yrs old and trhen my hip and her Dad brain cancer died BLA BLA BLA so my marriage lasted abit longer but eventually I left and boy was mhy counselor correct.
I have found recovery is a iongoing roller coaster but for me now life is gewtting to me so less insane. I do not waste energy on stuoi d things anymore. '
I am far from perfect but if you knew me in 2004?
And I have a life I really like a lot. I did the work and its payed off for me.
Now if i could just get that REDHEAD??
Jeff
This is how I came off sub thye first time--The hardest for me mentally at the end but it was actualy a brreeze w/d wise WHY? I listened to my doctor
She explainedto me how we would work together and wean started at 8mg -then 7-6-5-4-3-2--dropping 1 mg a month and at 2mg we cut slower and at the end started in june 2004 off it feb 2005
Why did I succeed I worked hard with my doctor to really accept no more partying. And she said If i was not willing to work on my character defects I coudl find another doctor to see. She really knew how to push my buttons but man when I finally stopped bullspitting her one appointment I will never forget I was waiting for my usual you know jeffrey your working hard --BUT silence she got up and hugged me and said your on your way.
3 days after being off sub I developed MRSA and almost died PAIN they cut me twice rightr by my hip replacement all my family was flown in as I was Dead according to the doctors well I was HIGH DRIP DRIP DRIP my old man came in after the operation in a moon suit and I was told I was singing some f-ed up song about space my prior history my dear friend who died was talking to him constantly (RAVING LUNATIC WAS I) I was ranting the nurses /parents told me for 3 days If I had died I woudl have went without knowing anything. First 5 days blackout the last 4 days and next year of my life the hardest fight I ever had.
I was so angry --My sub doctor kept telling me to stop feeling sorry for myself. i gained a lot of weight my attitude was in the crapper but then something happened to me--"spiritual awakening? No just a friend who knew what to say as she was living in hell herself and she understood what to say to me.
This person was my best friends sister she is on and off meds depression smokes her brains out but clean no problems there--she is just angry.
She lost her brother and father within a year to sickening painful the worst types of cancer my buddy had his leg amputated to prevent the cancer from spreading but they were wrong cut him twice in the chest before he thank god passed.
He had Lung cancer chain smoked since age 14 dies at 38--
His dad never smoked was adoctor took great care of himself and was dead in 9-10 months from time he lost his son. They would drain his blood pint by pint and this would give him 2-3 days of decent living then the pain would come back eventually this procedure wore him down and he passed.
Sorry for the ramble but this subject really hits home for me exscuse the spelling iam tyoing as fast as I can mistakes a second.
Anyway Suboxone IMO must go hand in hand with a 90-90 AA get a sponsor and you must have an addiction specialist if POSSIBLE someone who understanads our disease.
If you have asthma you do not go to a gyncologist you go to a pulmonologist.
How long should you be on sub iMO 8mg --6-8 months all depends on the person.
I do not understand people staying on suboxone for a long tiome as the longer your on it the tougher the mental fight to get off. Longterm affects?? I have read people being given 24-32 mg of the stuff??
I am no doctor I repeat what worked for me and what my doctor uses to treat all her patients. I am sure there are other ways to use sub but thisis my story.
Some doctors use 12 mg to start all doctors have there own way of prescribing. JMO but if you get suboxone from a reg M.D then your wasting your time as the first 30 days you need to be monitored daily and reg doctors donot offer this
Obviously we all have different insurance and $$$ in the bank--It sickens me that the government does not offer any addict these meds and a bed in a GOOD REHAB just kills me.
The government will get you hooked on methadone as its a money maker for evreyone. Keeps the addicts functioning so to speak and well the government?LMAO they are the best--OH MAN what ajoke.
Some people have had positive results with methadone but the stuff long term just eats you alive.
And its so hard to get off of as an addict. Shoot some zanax and meth? you have a heroine high.
in 2001 I walked into a rehab and has so many mg of multiple drugs zanax a lot and they gave me 10 mg of methadone I was so HIGH 3 days I was on methadone until my levels came down and then when they said no more meth? I freaked
I was hooked right there on the spot That is scary man It was all the zanax in my system as by the thirdday I was just buzzed but the first 2 days WOW
The funny thing is I went to this rehab as I was determined to get off these barbituates I was taking since I was a kid. Well my doctor who had no clue of my oxy zanax alcohol etc said Jeff 2-3 weeks maximum I said OKIE DOKIE
Man did I get a wake up call. This rehab was important as I got healthy and my counselor in 2001 aqdvised me to get divorced that my marriage mY ex was sabatoging my chance art recovery.
Back then I thought WTF is she talking about? mY ex was a loving wife we have 2 great kids etc etc but man she put the education in front of me and boy did I learn.
Due to circumstances leavingmy girls no way was i leaving my little one until she was 3-4 yrs old and trhen my hip and her Dad brain cancer died BLA BLA BLA so my marriage lasted abit longer but eventually I left and boy was mhy counselor correct.
I have found recovery is a iongoing roller coaster but for me now life is gewtting to me so less insane. I do not waste energy on stuoi d things anymore. '
I am far from perfect but if you knew me in 2004?
And I have a life I really like a lot. I did the work and its payed off for me.
Now if i could just get that REDHEAD??
Jeff
I didn't mean that being on methadone is not being "clean", what I meant was that it doesnt matetr if you go CT or use sub if the method assists you in achieving longterm sobriety. Simply "getting cean" is not the goal.
I absolutely disagree that using Sub is swapping one drug for another, there is nothing similar about abusing opiates and taking buprenorphine.
I absolutely disagree that using Sub is swapping one drug for another, there is nothing similar about abusing opiates and taking buprenorphine.
Thanks for the opinion, Silent....You are well~educated re: sub, and its tough to explain to people. I know it was the "easier" way to get "clean", but, it made life bearable. I am never high off of it, yet, feel labeled even going to the pharmacy for it...never did when getting my opiates, just wanted them.
Sub is so new , its going to have detractors, I am not one of them, the professionals that treated me at a world respected (old and dirty, but well~known,) facility assured me that it was something that is helpful, they have been researching it for years. I finally listened to advice of real professionals, and I am thankful it was sub and not methadone, at this time. Some sub doctors are not helping the cause, making it seem like a cash cow.
My family believes I still have to take an opiate everyday to get through, and they are disappointed I am on it, but, the goal is to stay clean....and they are uneducated about the recovery process. The stigma attached to sub, unfortunately , is similar to methadone, and I don't disclose I am on it to many people for that reason.
I also agree, as I have said earlier, that I didn't replace this for opiates, I would have used an opiate that got me high, if I were replacing....
Lucky
Sub is so new , its going to have detractors, I am not one of them, the professionals that treated me at a world respected (old and dirty, but well~known,) facility assured me that it was something that is helpful, they have been researching it for years. I finally listened to advice of real professionals, and I am thankful it was sub and not methadone, at this time. Some sub doctors are not helping the cause, making it seem like a cash cow.
My family believes I still have to take an opiate everyday to get through, and they are disappointed I am on it, but, the goal is to stay clean....and they are uneducated about the recovery process. The stigma attached to sub, unfortunately , is similar to methadone, and I don't disclose I am on it to many people for that reason.
I also agree, as I have said earlier, that I didn't replace this for opiates, I would have used an opiate that got me high, if I were replacing....
Lucky
Hey there Lucky. I think the thing to get across where posible is that while initial drug use might be voluntary and that there are many other factors involved in drug use (family, social etc), that there comes a point where brain function is seriously disturbed and that this plays a huge role.
If you are interested and have time, have a read of this publication below.
best wishes to you
Sean
The Science of Addiction
If you are interested and have time, have a read of this publication below.
best wishes to you
Sean
The Science of Addiction
Sean
Since I can remember you without a doubt are the most knowledgeable poster I have come across.
Keep coming back Sean.
Have a good weekend Sean.
Jeff
Since I can remember you without a doubt are the most knowledgeable poster I have come across.
Keep coming back Sean.
Have a good weekend Sean.
Jeff
