Good morning everyone,
I hope that all of you are well this morning or at least getting better. I have 2 questions, and knowing that you guys have more experience with this stuff that I, I thought I would put them out there. One is have any of you been told that sub would be an option after you were already clean (the doc told the hubby that it might help him if he went on it now). Confused by that. Also how long do you guys think it takes before you kind of know what pain you will be left with to live with. I know everyone is different and this might be a hard question to answer but anything you could share would help.
I hope these don't sound like stupid questions. The hubby will not be making any decisions on his pain until he gives in another 2 weeks, by then he will have 30 days clean (PRAYING HE GETS THERE). Also, he is getting another epidural in his neck by then so now that he if off the pills maybe that will help.
Stay Strong.......
Tina
misty
To answer your first question of the Sub..... I have no idea.... but I would have to wonder... Why would this med even be needed... I am of the understanding it is for cravings and w/d help.. and if your hubby is done with the w/d (the worst anyway) why would he need this new pill to deal with.. and further I am a stonch supporter of doing the NA.AA thing as you probably well know by now without using a new pill to deal with cravings... at least giving it a good try... but as the 'cat is out of the bag' as an option and might be seen as a easy way out ... as far as out addicts mind works ...well if it had been me... back then and I was given the option to do it on meetings and just deal with cravings or take sub...... to be honest I would have taken to sub... we addicts always look for the easiest way and this new 'miracle ' drug is seen by most as the new penicillin for addicts...
anyhoo as for the pain ... I would offer one word of caution.. you are right that everyone is different... but addiction is a very cunning disease and if pain is a motivator to get meds then our addicts brain will use that to get what it wants often convincing even our selves that we 'need' it... how many times have you read that people actually thought for a long time that their pain was sooo bad taht they couldnt live without meds.. then they found out difff after they were forced to... well it is the same here....there are objective ways of looking to see if someone is in ligitimate pain... but you have got to do two things... (let me say your hubby would not be meaning to lie or be dishonest it is the nature of the beast...)... he has got to tell the doc of his addiction .. and not leave the decision of his pain meds of choice to his descretion alone... he has got to try other measures like anti-inflamitories and non- narcotics...bio feedback..ect.. a ligitmate try regardless of if he has done so in the past ... do it again.... things change...
sorry this is so long...
I will close for now..
Good luck and God bless....
Teresa
To answer your first question of the Sub..... I have no idea.... but I would have to wonder... Why would this med even be needed... I am of the understanding it is for cravings and w/d help.. and if your hubby is done with the w/d (the worst anyway) why would he need this new pill to deal with.. and further I am a stonch supporter of doing the NA.AA thing as you probably well know by now without using a new pill to deal with cravings... at least giving it a good try... but as the 'cat is out of the bag' as an option and might be seen as a easy way out ... as far as out addicts mind works ...well if it had been me... back then and I was given the option to do it on meetings and just deal with cravings or take sub...... to be honest I would have taken to sub... we addicts always look for the easiest way and this new 'miracle ' drug is seen by most as the new penicillin for addicts...
anyhoo as for the pain ... I would offer one word of caution.. you are right that everyone is different... but addiction is a very cunning disease and if pain is a motivator to get meds then our addicts brain will use that to get what it wants often convincing even our selves that we 'need' it... how many times have you read that people actually thought for a long time that their pain was sooo bad taht they couldnt live without meds.. then they found out difff after they were forced to... well it is the same here....there are objective ways of looking to see if someone is in ligitimate pain... but you have got to do two things... (let me say your hubby would not be meaning to lie or be dishonest it is the nature of the beast...)... he has got to tell the doc of his addiction .. and not leave the decision of his pain meds of choice to his descretion alone... he has got to try other measures like anti-inflamitories and non- narcotics...bio feedback..ect.. a ligitmate try regardless of if he has done so in the past ... do it again.... things change...
sorry this is so long...
I will close for now..
Good luck and God bless....
Teresa
Hi Misty & Bad,
Giving it some more time is a good idea. My opinion, stay away from the sub. etc.. I too have a bad back, in fact I'm waiting on a hearing for SSD. This rainy weather sure as hell doesn't help either! lol I tried the shots a few years ago, they didn't do s--t for me. 800mg Motrin helps a little, but I just deal with it as best as possible. I've heard there are some good meds. that really do help, ask your doc. I just can't think of the name of them, I'll ask Gina when she gets home. The insurance I have right now doesn't hardly cover anything thats why I'm not on it right now. But it's safe and non-narcotic and from what I hear really works. I'll be sure to post it in about an hour or two.
Also, my buddy from Jersey called last night while I was out and I'll be seeing him tomorrow night at my home group. He comes to Philly for most of his meetings, he likes them here better, but he's gonna bring me a Jersey meeting list. I'll post it tomorrow night when I get home. It'll be around 10pm.
Hang in there, sounds like your doing a great job Bad, have a great day.
Take care..................God bless............Both of you are doing great......Bob
PS..I don't know how far exactly from Philly you guys are, but my home group
has two meetings a week, the Saturday nite meeting is an open meeting, anyone can attend, it's an early one too, 7pm-8:30, if your interested, maybe some week the four of us can meet, do a meeting then maybe stop for coffee
afterwards. Up to you, just wanted to put the offer out there.
have a nice day, talk to ya' later...........................................................Bob
Giving it some more time is a good idea. My opinion, stay away from the sub. etc.. I too have a bad back, in fact I'm waiting on a hearing for SSD. This rainy weather sure as hell doesn't help either! lol I tried the shots a few years ago, they didn't do s--t for me. 800mg Motrin helps a little, but I just deal with it as best as possible. I've heard there are some good meds. that really do help, ask your doc. I just can't think of the name of them, I'll ask Gina when she gets home. The insurance I have right now doesn't hardly cover anything thats why I'm not on it right now. But it's safe and non-narcotic and from what I hear really works. I'll be sure to post it in about an hour or two.
Also, my buddy from Jersey called last night while I was out and I'll be seeing him tomorrow night at my home group. He comes to Philly for most of his meetings, he likes them here better, but he's gonna bring me a Jersey meeting list. I'll post it tomorrow night when I get home. It'll be around 10pm.
Hang in there, sounds like your doing a great job Bad, have a great day.
Take care..................God bless............Both of you are doing great......Bob
PS..I don't know how far exactly from Philly you guys are, but my home group
has two meetings a week, the Saturday nite meeting is an open meeting, anyone can attend, it's an early one too, 7pm-8:30, if your interested, maybe some week the four of us can meet, do a meeting then maybe stop for coffee
afterwards. Up to you, just wanted to put the offer out there.
have a nice day, talk to ya' later...........................................................Bob
Hi
Sub is not only used for WD's it is an effective pain reliever. I as a nurse have administered it many times for pain but it is called Temgesic which is another name for Buprenorphine (Sub) I have used it in the past and the beauty of it is it did not make me high and has an opiate blocking ability.
Teresa I do take your point however that every other avenue should be explored before taking this.
Paul
Sub is not only used for WD's it is an effective pain reliever. I as a nurse have administered it many times for pain but it is called Temgesic which is another name for Buprenorphine (Sub) I have used it in the past and the beauty of it is it did not make me high and has an opiate blocking ability.
Teresa I do take your point however that every other avenue should be explored before taking this.
Paul
Hi Paul,
I heard theres withdraw from that stuff too? I don't know much about it, but, if thats true seems to me it wouldn't be a good idea to take something that you just can't stop taking. I mean if I have a day that my back doesn't hurt so bad I wouldn't take anything at all, but with that med. unlike motrin or something you just can't say, "I'm feeling ok today, I don't need anything".
Anyway, good to see ya', have a great day...Take care...God bless.......Bob
I heard theres withdraw from that stuff too? I don't know much about it, but, if thats true seems to me it wouldn't be a good idea to take something that you just can't stop taking. I mean if I have a day that my back doesn't hurt so bad I wouldn't take anything at all, but with that med. unlike motrin or something you just can't say, "I'm feeling ok today, I don't need anything".
Anyway, good to see ya', have a great day...Take care...God bless.......Bob
bob...
goood morning bob...... how are you.... ? Glad to see you... Maybe I can catch you in chat for a min...?
Anyhoo hope you have a good day... Tell Gina hi...
Teresa
oh and Paul thanks for the extra info but wouldnt this make sub then a long term therapy..?... not that this a necessarily a bad thing but does it have any tolerance building potential and/or ceiling?.. I have heard that it must be weaned from.. I only ask these are retorical questions because I have done almost no research on this topic... and of course you know my personal beliefs on this broad topic of sub and Meth use...
goood morning bob...... how are you.... ? Glad to see you... Maybe I can catch you in chat for a min...?
Anyhoo hope you have a good day... Tell Gina hi...
Teresa
oh and Paul thanks for the extra info but wouldnt this make sub then a long term therapy..?... not that this a necessarily a bad thing but does it have any tolerance building potential and/or ceiling?.. I have heard that it must be weaned from.. I only ask these are retorical questions because I have done almost no research on this topic... and of course you know my personal beliefs on this broad topic of sub and Meth use...
Hi
Forgot to mention that buprenorphine is available on a patch at least here in the UK it is.
Hi Bob how are you?
Paul
Forgot to mention that buprenorphine is available on a patch at least here in the UK it is.
Hi Bob how are you?
Paul
Hi Teresa,
I'd like to chat, if your gonna be around in an hour or two. I wanna get a few things done for Gina before she gets back. So, I'll go do that now and hopefully
I'll see ya' in chat say around 12 or so. Paul, if your around stop in chat too.
Take care......................................God bless...................................Bob
I'd like to chat, if your gonna be around in an hour or two. I wanna get a few things done for Gina before she gets back. So, I'll go do that now and hopefully
I'll see ya' in chat say around 12 or so. Paul, if your around stop in chat too.
Take care......................................God bless...................................Bob
LOL
everytime I submit a post someone has summited another which makes mine look strange.
Terasa I do take your point tolerence can build on sub but often less is better. I do not believe antone should have to suffer pain for the rest of their lifes. I have tried lots of things (non narcotic) and always end up taking sick leave. I am only 41 and my personel department are talking about me maybe having to take retirement. I would rather take something that works for my pain and enables me to function without being a crazy addict.
Bob....yes you are right if stopped promptly then one would expect withdrwals to kick in.
Paul
everytime I submit a post someone has summited another which makes mine look strange.
Terasa I do take your point tolerence can build on sub but often less is better. I do not believe antone should have to suffer pain for the rest of their lifes. I have tried lots of things (non narcotic) and always end up taking sick leave. I am only 41 and my personel department are talking about me maybe having to take retirement. I would rather take something that works for my pain and enables me to function without being a crazy addict.
Bob....yes you are right if stopped promptly then one would expect withdrwals to kick in.
Paul
HI
Sub does have a ceiling - sometimes if you try to take more and more (as the addict mind likes to do), it will actually make you feel worse. It is something to be tapered from sometimes because of this factor. It tends to build up in your system and you have to drop your dose to feel better.
It can be addicting, but apparently the less time you are on it, the less the withdrawals are. Also, the withdrawals are (apparently) not nearly as bad as coming off the original opiate itself. From what we gathered from all our research, the optimal time to be on the Sub is 14-21 days where you should experience almost no withdrawals from it and it will help you get through the bad withdrawals of the original opiate. This will be tested by my boyfriend as his last dose is today which would be 21 days on it after a decade habit of heroin and morphine. He thinks this is a miracle drug, but at the same time, he does not like being on it as he still doesn't like the thought of having to take something to feel normal. He is very excited about stopping it and finally being completely clean of everything, but he doesn't think he would have been able to come this far without it. He knows it still won't be a cake walk or anything and has taken the next week off of work just so he doesn't have the stress for the time being as he is expecting to not feel too great and will need all his energy to fight his mind as well.
All in all, I am so glad it is out there because if it wasn't, he would still be using.
Just wanted to give you a little more info!
Thanks
Mickey
Sub does have a ceiling - sometimes if you try to take more and more (as the addict mind likes to do), it will actually make you feel worse. It is something to be tapered from sometimes because of this factor. It tends to build up in your system and you have to drop your dose to feel better.
It can be addicting, but apparently the less time you are on it, the less the withdrawals are. Also, the withdrawals are (apparently) not nearly as bad as coming off the original opiate itself. From what we gathered from all our research, the optimal time to be on the Sub is 14-21 days where you should experience almost no withdrawals from it and it will help you get through the bad withdrawals of the original opiate. This will be tested by my boyfriend as his last dose is today which would be 21 days on it after a decade habit of heroin and morphine. He thinks this is a miracle drug, but at the same time, he does not like being on it as he still doesn't like the thought of having to take something to feel normal. He is very excited about stopping it and finally being completely clean of everything, but he doesn't think he would have been able to come this far without it. He knows it still won't be a cake walk or anything and has taken the next week off of work just so he doesn't have the stress for the time being as he is expecting to not feel too great and will need all his energy to fight his mind as well.
All in all, I am so glad it is out there because if it wasn't, he would still be using.
Just wanted to give you a little more info!
Thanks
Mickey
paul
I think you missed some of the point of my post.. It was initailly posting to tina and about her hubby ... not you.... or your situation.. I fear that like Meth for w/d sub in this case might be seen for pain as first line for pain in his and I was simply offering my perspective... on HIS case..
You might have tried all the other routes and sub for you is like killing too birds with one stone... you relapses and you pain and being able to stay in your field...
In misties hubbies, that might not have been the case...
Tersea
I think you missed some of the point of my post.. It was initailly posting to tina and about her hubby ... not you.... or your situation.. I fear that like Meth for w/d sub in this case might be seen for pain as first line for pain in his and I was simply offering my perspective... on HIS case..
You might have tried all the other routes and sub for you is like killing too birds with one stone... you relapses and you pain and being able to stay in your field...
In misties hubbies, that might not have been the case...
Tersea
bob
i will see you there... about noonish....
teresa
i will see you there... about noonish....
teresa
Hi Terasa
Yes I think I did do that my fault for not thinking things through enough. I have Sub use very much to the for front of my mind because I will be starting to take it on Monday. Obviously I am constantly checking my motives but in the final analysis i think it will be the right thing for me to do. Like you said it will kill 2 birds with one stone, nicely put by the way.
I have taken Sub before when I withdrew from painpills and got the best ever relief from pain I have ever had without effecting my cognitive function. It is not for everone and to me is a last resort. It feels like defeat and I am going to have to work with my councelor on those feelings.
Paul
Yes I think I did do that my fault for not thinking things through enough. I have Sub use very much to the for front of my mind because I will be starting to take it on Monday. Obviously I am constantly checking my motives but in the final analysis i think it will be the right thing for me to do. Like you said it will kill 2 birds with one stone, nicely put by the way.
I have taken Sub before when I withdrew from painpills and got the best ever relief from pain I have ever had without effecting my cognitive function. It is not for everone and to me is a last resort. It feels like defeat and I am going to have to work with my councelor on those feelings.
Paul
Thanks you guys for all the advice. The best is when you don't agree with each other.......then I can get the full story. Not making any decisions yet. If it was up to me I would send him down the toughest road possible but I am a b**** like that. Not being mean though just want him learn a lesson and realize that his brain needs time to adjust to the pain. I think he can definitly relate to you today Bob the weather does suck here. The fun will be tonight when we go our for our evening walk. Which I recommend to everyone. I even find that the walking helps me let off some of the stress of the day. I know there are alot of good meds out there.I think he may try to take mobic again and start lifting weights. He's hoping that because he is off the pain pills he might notice the mobic working. Only bad thing with this med is it can cause joint pain. Always the good with the bad. Bob send the names of those meds thank god we have good insurance. We are about 10 min from South Philly would be alittle longer to get up your end. Figures the meeting is tomorrow night......the baby sitter is away till Monday. Send the list and we will work on another weekend meeting.
Teresa I do agree about the addicts mind thing......and have been pushing him to try to think about his pain and what truely bothers him the most. The docs want him to keep a pain journal which should help. Thing is I can see his pain and the docs must be able to also. He went yesterday and is suppose to be drug tested each week and they didn't even do it. He came home surprised about it I just laughed. He could barely walk, was limping really bad. I told him you fool you look like an old man walking if you were on anything I think you would at least be able to stand up straight. Oh and all his doctors know he even told the dentist all by himself. Actually he told everybody he could care less when it comes to that aspect. I think it is great because he has sent up a firm support system with those he absolutely trusts. He called me and then a friend when he was having prolbems with cravings the other day which for him is a big step. He doesn't trust anyone really so he has come farther than I thought he could with that issue in 2 weeks. I am being serious about the trust issue married for 20 years and now he finally gets it that he can trust me.
Thanks again for everything he will read all about what you guys think about sub tonight when he gets home. This should help him very much.
Stay strong and take care........
Tina
PS anyone else want to voice an opinion please do.
Teresa I do agree about the addicts mind thing......and have been pushing him to try to think about his pain and what truely bothers him the most. The docs want him to keep a pain journal which should help. Thing is I can see his pain and the docs must be able to also. He went yesterday and is suppose to be drug tested each week and they didn't even do it. He came home surprised about it I just laughed. He could barely walk, was limping really bad. I told him you fool you look like an old man walking if you were on anything I think you would at least be able to stand up straight. Oh and all his doctors know he even told the dentist all by himself. Actually he told everybody he could care less when it comes to that aspect. I think it is great because he has sent up a firm support system with those he absolutely trusts. He called me and then a friend when he was having prolbems with cravings the other day which for him is a big step. He doesn't trust anyone really so he has come farther than I thought he could with that issue in 2 weeks. I am being serious about the trust issue married for 20 years and now he finally gets it that he can trust me.
Thanks again for everything he will read all about what you guys think about sub tonight when he gets home. This should help him very much.
Stay strong and take care........
Tina
PS anyone else want to voice an opinion please do.
Thank you Neon and Micky. I didn't want to leave you out. you both helped in showing the other side of Sub. I personally don't what him to take it but I am not inside his body so don't fully understand what he is feeling. How real it is or if it is the drugs pushing him to find the easiest way back to them. And for anyone interested sub it say can be addictive. I like the can be part like the drug company isn't quite sure yet......Now think about this if you give this to an addict there is a chance to misuse and abuse just like any othere drug.
Stay Strong.......
Tina
Stay Strong.......
Tina
