Hi everybody. I haven't been here for quite some time, but used to post a few months back. I was going to take the Easter plunge, but failed-so I guess I was too ashamed to post. Jump forward to present day: I had been seeking a sub doc for months. There are none in my area, but I was on waiting lists all over the state. Well, to help myself, I enrolled in intensive-outpatient back in Feb. I go 3x per week for 3 hours per night. Then, 2 weeks ago, I got a call from a doc who is about 4 hours away. They could get me in for a sub consult the following day (I learned of this on Wed and had to be there on Thurs). Obviously I was soooo excited! So at my group that night I tell them all about it. During break the leader hands me a ua form and says I have to do it w/i 24 hours. Two things--1) she knows I'm waiting to get on sub as I can't quit by myself and 2) she knows my apt w/ the sub doc is the following day and I wouldn't be able to make the ua (10-6pm only). I was devestated! So after break I address the group and tell them again about my doc apt the following day and that if I'm accepted into the program I will have to stay in their clinic M and T and return to my hometown on Wed (meaning I wouldn't be able to attend group that week). I should have spoken to her one on one, but she is so rude and condescending to me I was too afraid. I went to the apt and was accepted. I stayed in that town until Wed am of last week. Obviously I didn't take the ua (even tho she knew it would be dirty). My plan was to go to group tonight and share the good news--I've been hydro free for a week and I'm doing well! Not going to happen--I had 3 group members call me today to say that she announced to the group last Wed that I had been kicked out for non-compliance. I'm so upset. This is when I really need support! HELP. I know I didn't handle it beautifully, but I was so scared and knew I needed to make that trip (to save my life). What do you think I should do now? Group starts in 3 hours. I'm just heartbroken.
Julz
Julz
I am so happy to hear that you are doing well. You should never feel ashamed to come here. We all make mistakes and I really doubt anyone here would judge you! As for the group you are in is there anyone there above her that you can talk to? This seems very unfair. Let us know how it goes. Welcome Back
Chrissy
I am so happy to hear that you are doing well. You should never feel ashamed to come here. We all make mistakes and I really doubt anyone here would judge you! As for the group you are in is there anyone there above her that you can talk to? This seems very unfair. Let us know how it goes. Welcome Back
Chrissy
Go to an AA or NA meeting.
RAchel
RAchel
Hi Julz,
Hey first of all dont be ashamed to post.Shame kills. Like Rachel said go to an AA or NA meeting. take care
God bless
gina :)
Hey first of all dont be ashamed to post.Shame kills. Like Rachel said go to an AA or NA meeting. take care
God bless
gina :)
Julz - welcome back!
What Rachel and Gina said.....
Jim
What Rachel and Gina said.....
Jim
Julz Boy that stinks.I agree with go to a meeting.Also you may want to look into private therapy.At least till you can find a different group maybe.Or like was said try & go over her head.
Either way please know I am very proud of you.A week is something when youve never done it before.I have no dought that we will hear 1 mth out of you and so and so on.I wish you all the luck in the world...mj
Either way please know I am very proud of you.A week is something when youve never done it before.I have no dought that we will hear 1 mth out of you and so and so on.I wish you all the luck in the world...mj
Julz..Suboxone is pretty alien to alot of health care professionals as well as detox and outpatient groups. It almost sounds as though she was being a little territorial... whatever, her loss not yours. You can make this work... stay in your sub program and then get your butt to a NA or AA meeting like the rest of the group here told you too. It can be your life line and your support. I promise. Plus, it doens't cost anything....
cg
cg
Hey Julz,
Long time no talk! Wow, you are in one hell of a situation now. What will happen now that you got kicked out of the program? Are they going to tell the judge? How is the sub working out for you? E-mail me if you want to talk more. I will be on in the morning sometime. Bunny4804@aol.com I am sure you had it just making sure! Take care and glad to see you posting! Rae
Long time no talk! Wow, you are in one hell of a situation now. What will happen now that you got kicked out of the program? Are they going to tell the judge? How is the sub working out for you? E-mail me if you want to talk more. I will be on in the morning sometime. Bunny4804@aol.com I am sure you had it just making sure! Take care and glad to see you posting! Rae
Honestly the group leader sounds like a real idiot, with issues of their own. Trust me when I say that quite a few people in these positions are usually quite screwy in the head. Ego trips, etc. The only thing it sounds like you lost was the contact with the other clients. Their probably more sane than the counselor. But fear not, the other advice is sound, AA and NA are great alternatives. So don't dwell, and keep in touch with your friends from the group by tele and getting together. bye
Thanks so much guys! I'm feeling better mentally than I have in years. I called the counselor yesterday and begged her to let me remain in the group. If I get kicked out I will lose my job and it could be considered parole violation. All I was trying to do was help myself--not upset her or anyone else. You're so right about this territorial thing. It is nuts. How lucky am I that I got to see an actual doctor who specializes in addictionology? HUGE difference vs a counselor in this state. Well, when I spoke with her she said they MAY consider letting me back into the group with many stipulations--one being I have to go to a psych for an evaluation to "see why you have such a low pain tolerance that you'd need pain medication for a simple (fill in the blank of my condition)." My thought is: who is the counselor to even begin to guess about my pain tolerance level? It was so condescending--and inappropriate. So I call this "Doctor" (psych) that they've recommended and guess what? Not even a doctor. Just a master level in education and it looks like his focus is family drama. I'm told that I have to see a psych to evaluate my mental health and to understand why I feel I need pain meds. Wasn't that what the in-take was at this group clinic? More money out of pocket--they all help each other out with referrals (and my educated guess is that they all support each others positions). 1. Work recommends this outpatient clinic. To keep my job I have to agree. 2. This outpatient clinic communicates with my job about me (mind you not just that I attend or don't attend groups, etc). 3. Work uses this information to try and terminate me. 4. Group clinic mandates that I see a psych (who isn't really a psychologist but a master level counselor--in my state you must posess a PhD to be referred to as a psych.) 5. The group wants written permission to talk with the psych to and about me. 6. If I wasn't insane before this terrible experience I am close to it now (wink, smile).
My regular pcp had been prescribing me a pain medication for a legit reason. OK-I get that I needed to find a new way of dealing with the pain (and it is very real and quite severe)--but--does she have a right to contridict my doctor and then the other doc (sub)? She was very unhappy about the suboxone. I brought her information on the program, etc and she sat and read it while shaking her head. Very judgmental indeed. It's crazy. These people were set up thru my work and they report to my head supervisor confidential information that I share in group (recently found this out). So with work if I say I'm an addict the head boss wants to fire me and at group if I don't say I'm an addict they want to kick me out. I truly believe my work set this up to get me one way or another. I did speak with an attorney today (and have been as this unfolds) and he is in agreement that my work has set up an elaborate game with the intention of getting rid of me. Didn't I go to group for help and support? When I needed it the most I felt kicked in the teeth. I'm talking with the sub doc tomorrow so I'll see about his advise. Sorry if this is all over the board--I'm so upset right now--but I'm happy to be on suboxone and living well (healthy). I'm going to do great just to spite them, if nothing else.
So good to hear from my ole friends! Been thinking about you. Please take care. Your responses are so helpful and appreciated.
J
My regular pcp had been prescribing me a pain medication for a legit reason. OK-I get that I needed to find a new way of dealing with the pain (and it is very real and quite severe)--but--does she have a right to contridict my doctor and then the other doc (sub)? She was very unhappy about the suboxone. I brought her information on the program, etc and she sat and read it while shaking her head. Very judgmental indeed. It's crazy. These people were set up thru my work and they report to my head supervisor confidential information that I share in group (recently found this out). So with work if I say I'm an addict the head boss wants to fire me and at group if I don't say I'm an addict they want to kick me out. I truly believe my work set this up to get me one way or another. I did speak with an attorney today (and have been as this unfolds) and he is in agreement that my work has set up an elaborate game with the intention of getting rid of me. Didn't I go to group for help and support? When I needed it the most I felt kicked in the teeth. I'm talking with the sub doc tomorrow so I'll see about his advise. Sorry if this is all over the board--I'm so upset right now--but I'm happy to be on suboxone and living well (healthy). I'm going to do great just to spite them, if nothing else.
So good to hear from my ole friends! Been thinking about you. Please take care. Your responses are so helpful and appreciated.
J
Hey everyone! Just checking in. I'm still on the sub and it is working great for me. I'm reclaiming my life. But....this outpatient group did kick me out. They informed the judge, courts, po, work, the others in my group---and never me. I had to hear about it from a group member. I begged them to re-admit me (my job and actual career depends on this). They were so condescending and rude. I said I'd go off the sub if they didn't approve. Too late--"You're out." Now I am so screwed and sad. How could an out-patient that I've already paid (as has my insurance) in good conscience kick out a person seeking help? They had all kinds of reasons:
1. You're replacing your drug of choice with another drug (the sub)
2. You skipped the ua (Yeah-I told them I'd be in another city for the sub appointmen)
3. You missed several days of group (Right--I was beginning the sub program 300 miles away and under doc supervision)
4. Now we think you need in-patient
WHAT?? This can't be happening. I know they're talking with my employeer (who wants to fire me for this arrest) in an effort to remain on good terms with my employeer (who refers many to this facility). What can I do now? The sub is working great for me-and the doc who prescribes it for me believes that this counselor is completely in the wrong and even dangerous (for kicking me out) and I should possibly push the matter with the appropriate licenscing board, law suit, etc. Does anybody have any advise for me? Thanks so much!!
Julz
1. You're replacing your drug of choice with another drug (the sub)
2. You skipped the ua (Yeah-I told them I'd be in another city for the sub appointmen)
3. You missed several days of group (Right--I was beginning the sub program 300 miles away and under doc supervision)
4. Now we think you need in-patient
WHAT?? This can't be happening. I know they're talking with my employeer (who wants to fire me for this arrest) in an effort to remain on good terms with my employeer (who refers many to this facility). What can I do now? The sub is working great for me-and the doc who prescribes it for me believes that this counselor is completely in the wrong and even dangerous (for kicking me out) and I should possibly push the matter with the appropriate licenscing board, law suit, etc. Does anybody have any advise for me? Thanks so much!!
Julz
I think its discusting what they did to you and i think its discrimination throw that in there face and tell them your gonna get a lawer assholes your trying your best to get clean and there driving you back to them by thier ignorance see a lawer see how fast they back down assholes Love Tracey LOL
Tracey,
Thank you so much for replying to me. I'm just sitting here crying over this. How can they kick me out for things that other group members do every day? Do you really think this could be a lawsuit? I think it may be. I have a great attny for work-they have me out on admin. leave now that I've been kicked out of out-patient. I think I'll call the outpatient clinic and ask them to copy my entire file so that I can take it to my attorney's office for my appointment tomorrow (then I really do need to make an appt!). It just sickens me that they could do such a thing--and not even tell ME about it. Can you imagine hearing this from a group member and then the president of your union??? I would love any feedback. I' ve never felt so lonely. Even the people I've paid to help me have kicked me in the gut.
J
Thank you so much for replying to me. I'm just sitting here crying over this. How can they kick me out for things that other group members do every day? Do you really think this could be a lawsuit? I think it may be. I have a great attny for work-they have me out on admin. leave now that I've been kicked out of out-patient. I think I'll call the outpatient clinic and ask them to copy my entire file so that I can take it to my attorney's office for my appointment tomorrow (then I really do need to make an appt!). It just sickens me that they could do such a thing--and not even tell ME about it. Can you imagine hearing this from a group member and then the president of your union??? I would love any feedback. I' ve never felt so lonely. Even the people I've paid to help me have kicked me in the gut.
J
Wow Julz, Am I missing something here?... It sounds as if they had it out for you for some reason. Do you and ANY other member of that group have any past relationships? I don't know, it just sounds fishy..
Regards,
Tom
Regards,
Tom
Tom,
I know it doesn't sound right! It's not right. I've never had a relationship w/ anyone at the clinic or at work. It's a long story that I've posted over time, but basically:
I was arrested over a year ago for altering a script. The pharmacy pressed charges and the DA wouldn't (what's the right term?) dicker down from a felony. This was my first and only crime-EVER! Never even a parking ticket. So now I have a felony. Oh-I tried to alter a script from 20 hydros to 26. Brilliant, hugh? Anyway, I told my employeer-as I figured it better to come from me, right. Well, I work in public education in a fairly high position. I agreed to administrative leave and out-patient therapy (they chose the out-patient clinic). Ok, so I start the outpatient program. Meanwhile, I was still taking hydros (with a valid doc script for a very legit medical situation--doc knows everything). I told the clinic about this at the intake. I'd been in outpatient for 4 weeks (3 nights a week 3 hours per session). Never once did I tell them that I had stopped taking the prescribed medication. In the meantime, I'd been on sub docs waiting lists all over the state (for both long-term pain relief and to get off the hydros). I only had 2 weeks left of the intensive out patient, then I'd be on to once per week. So, I finally get a call from one of the sub docs. I had been telling the group counselor all along about my excitement for the sub! The day I tell the group I just got into a sub doc and have to report there tomorrow, the counselor hands me a random ua. I explained that the doc is 4 hours away and there is no way I can take the ua and make the appointment. She didn't say anything, as group began up after break. I explained the sub program to the group that evening and told them that if the doc thinks I'm a good candidate then I get to start the program on Mon and will have to stay until Wed (so I would obviously miss group that next Mon, Tues, and Wed). All goes according to plan--I go to the sub doc, get into the program, stay until Wed under his supervision. When I get back into town on Thurs, one of my peeps from group calls me and says he can't believe I got kicked out of the group. Within minitues my union rep calls and says work has been notified that the clinic dismissed me for "non-compliance". I'm freaked! I call the counselor-several times. When I finally get a hold of her she tells me that I was non-compliant because I refused the ua and skipped a week of group. I reminded her of our conversation and what I announced during group. Guess what? She really couldn't remember! Everyone in group does. She tells me to come on in and she'll see what she can do. So I go in and she sends me to another ua (which I took and it was clean), tells me to make an apt with a psyhciatrist (who is in fact not a psychiatrist, but a MED--BIG difference)--so I call him, but he is out of town until the beginning of June. I call her back, but she won't talk with me. Her "supervisor" (the outher counselor) comes to the phone to tell me that it doesn't matter what I do or say, they have decided to "discontinue" my services. He went thru all the reasons I've already listed, and when I rebuffed each reason he goes "Well, we think you need inpatient and we can not help you." CLICK. That's it! If this were the case then why in the world did she send me to another ua ($25.00 thank you). There have been several people in my group who have missed sessions, even failed uas!! So WTF with me? Any adivse?
I know it doesn't sound right! It's not right. I've never had a relationship w/ anyone at the clinic or at work. It's a long story that I've posted over time, but basically:
I was arrested over a year ago for altering a script. The pharmacy pressed charges and the DA wouldn't (what's the right term?) dicker down from a felony. This was my first and only crime-EVER! Never even a parking ticket. So now I have a felony. Oh-I tried to alter a script from 20 hydros to 26. Brilliant, hugh? Anyway, I told my employeer-as I figured it better to come from me, right. Well, I work in public education in a fairly high position. I agreed to administrative leave and out-patient therapy (they chose the out-patient clinic). Ok, so I start the outpatient program. Meanwhile, I was still taking hydros (with a valid doc script for a very legit medical situation--doc knows everything). I told the clinic about this at the intake. I'd been in outpatient for 4 weeks (3 nights a week 3 hours per session). Never once did I tell them that I had stopped taking the prescribed medication. In the meantime, I'd been on sub docs waiting lists all over the state (for both long-term pain relief and to get off the hydros). I only had 2 weeks left of the intensive out patient, then I'd be on to once per week. So, I finally get a call from one of the sub docs. I had been telling the group counselor all along about my excitement for the sub! The day I tell the group I just got into a sub doc and have to report there tomorrow, the counselor hands me a random ua. I explained that the doc is 4 hours away and there is no way I can take the ua and make the appointment. She didn't say anything, as group began up after break. I explained the sub program to the group that evening and told them that if the doc thinks I'm a good candidate then I get to start the program on Mon and will have to stay until Wed (so I would obviously miss group that next Mon, Tues, and Wed). All goes according to plan--I go to the sub doc, get into the program, stay until Wed under his supervision. When I get back into town on Thurs, one of my peeps from group calls me and says he can't believe I got kicked out of the group. Within minitues my union rep calls and says work has been notified that the clinic dismissed me for "non-compliance". I'm freaked! I call the counselor-several times. When I finally get a hold of her she tells me that I was non-compliant because I refused the ua and skipped a week of group. I reminded her of our conversation and what I announced during group. Guess what? She really couldn't remember! Everyone in group does. She tells me to come on in and she'll see what she can do. So I go in and she sends me to another ua (which I took and it was clean), tells me to make an apt with a psyhciatrist (who is in fact not a psychiatrist, but a MED--BIG difference)--so I call him, but he is out of town until the beginning of June. I call her back, but she won't talk with me. Her "supervisor" (the outher counselor) comes to the phone to tell me that it doesn't matter what I do or say, they have decided to "discontinue" my services. He went thru all the reasons I've already listed, and when I rebuffed each reason he goes "Well, we think you need inpatient and we can not help you." CLICK. That's it! If this were the case then why in the world did she send me to another ua ($25.00 thank you). There have been several people in my group who have missed sessions, even failed uas!! So WTF with me? Any adivse?
Julz,
I have been keeping up with your issues, (you didnt need to type all that!) I say go to the supervisors boss, dont let them know this though. And definately explain being hung up on, and all the other things you brought up. AND tell them you have witnesses to the discussion about going to a dr, and get a note from him as well.
Good luck.
Regards,
Tom
I have been keeping up with your issues, (you didnt need to type all that!) I say go to the supervisors boss, dont let them know this though. And definately explain being hung up on, and all the other things you brought up. AND tell them you have witnesses to the discussion about going to a dr, and get a note from him as well.
Good luck.
Regards,
Tom
Julz,
This is a tough situation. I admire your courage through all of this. keep your head up and fight through it. Keep records of your attempts to stay clean(doctors, groups, therapy, etc.), talk to your supervisor and a lawyer. This non-compliance deal is a load of crap and they should not be able to place road blocks in front of someone who is as courageous and honest as you.
This is a tough situation. I admire your courage through all of this. keep your head up and fight through it. Keep records of your attempts to stay clean(doctors, groups, therapy, etc.), talk to your supervisor and a lawyer. This non-compliance deal is a load of crap and they should not be able to place road blocks in front of someone who is as courageous and honest as you.
And most importantly, Julz, run, don't walk to NA/AA. You definitely need meetings.
RAchel
RAchel
Get yourself a good lawyer and sue them for everything the lawyer can think off This is discrimination its like they dont want you to get better Do they treat people with cancer or aids like this ? This is a disease and your doing your best to recover and there enough to trigger you to start using again Get a good lawyer and sue that b**** too f*** her I think shes jealous of you or something and wants you to fail dont give her the satisfaction f*** her Let me know how it goes love tracey ps dont tell anyone that your doing that dont tip them off talk to you soon
julz -
when i went to IOP, i had to sign a contract with them. it was very specific in the terms i agreed too. did you have to sign a contract with these people?
hugs -
sammy
when i went to IOP, i had to sign a contract with them. it was very specific in the terms i agreed too. did you have to sign a contract with these people?
hugs -
sammy
