Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me? My boyfriend is really struggling at the moment with an issue that i am sure many (if not all) of you have faced. He has been a heroin addict for a good number of years, the last few of which he has been really trying to kick it, reducing his subutex right down to 0.4 mg. He also has a major alcohol problem and takes valium sometimes. He also suffers from depression.
The problem is this......He has really got one friend (other than me) that he sees regularly, I'll call him A. A is also a heroin addict in active addiction who also drinks and takes valium. The way my boyfriend describes it is, A is the only person he can talk to honestly about his situation, he is the only one who has experienced first hand the pull of the drug and the withdrawls and also the person he talks to when our relationship is on the rocks. He is also the only person that my boyfriend scores from when he relapses, he was managing to go a VERY long time between relapses before he met him.
When i talk to my boyfriend about this i obviously have my own agenda (wanting him to be clean so we can get back together) and although i have my opinion.....maybe i am wrong. Can any of you tell me your experiences of similar situations? Is it possible to keep a friendship with an active addict and recover fully yourself? If it has been possible for you how have you managed it? If not possible then how did you end the friendship?
I would so very much appreciate your opinions on the subject. My plan is to print out the replies in full and give them to him as valuable unbiased advice from people who know what he is going through and who are managing to stay in recovery. He really does want to stay clean, but recently having moved into his own house he seems to be sliding back down.
Thank you for taking the time, it is very much appreciated.
xxxxxx
NO NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!!
Such a friendship is addiction based...it is no longer two individuals talking to each other...the substance abused is in full control...it masters what we think say and feel (uh..the drug doesn't really allow us to fully feel because all we feel is high...numb actually).
My opinion is based on personal experience....and i have/had many many years of being clean but i thought it was okay to be around a using ex partner that still shot dope and smoked pot 24/7...because my drug of choice was alcohol and so i thought i was immune to the influence of drugs i never did nor had any desire to use...
WRONG WRONG WRONG
of the two friendships my money is on YOU
MARY
Such a friendship is addiction based...it is no longer two individuals talking to each other...the substance abused is in full control...it masters what we think say and feel (uh..the drug doesn't really allow us to fully feel because all we feel is high...numb actually).
My opinion is based on personal experience....and i have/had many many years of being clean but i thought it was okay to be around a using ex partner that still shot dope and smoked pot 24/7...because my drug of choice was alcohol and so i thought i was immune to the influence of drugs i never did nor had any desire to use...
WRONG WRONG WRONG
of the two friendships my money is on YOU
MARY
Lost,
It really boils down to the mind, his mind most specifically. You see, there is an occurrence in the brain when there is conflict between beliefsit is called cognitive dissonance.
Heres an example: Suzy has always thought that she was unattractive. One day, a man comes up to her at church and asks her out for a cup of coffee. Immediately she thinks, Oh, he either wants to get in my pants, or, he cant do any better than me. Shes still on that low self-esteem bit. Nothing in her mind has changed yet, right? Then, a couple of months later while on the train a man asks her have you ever considered modeling? Id like you to come by my studio for some test shots.
Because shes always thought that she was unattractive and now two people have recently said something contrary to her beliefs, her mind is now in a struggle. She struggles because now there is proof, proof that the first suitor wasnt insincere. Proof that her original belief of herself might be wrong. The mind will not allow for that struggleplain and simple. It will always believe one or the other. Either I am or I am not.
What does your boyfriend believe? What does he believe about the past pains that have led him to this point? Is there a point that you see him thinking differently about himself? To hang out with addicts and say that there is some benefit is addictionfull of excuses.
All The best,
Don
It really boils down to the mind, his mind most specifically. You see, there is an occurrence in the brain when there is conflict between beliefsit is called cognitive dissonance.
Heres an example: Suzy has always thought that she was unattractive. One day, a man comes up to her at church and asks her out for a cup of coffee. Immediately she thinks, Oh, he either wants to get in my pants, or, he cant do any better than me. Shes still on that low self-esteem bit. Nothing in her mind has changed yet, right? Then, a couple of months later while on the train a man asks her have you ever considered modeling? Id like you to come by my studio for some test shots.
Because shes always thought that she was unattractive and now two people have recently said something contrary to her beliefs, her mind is now in a struggle. She struggles because now there is proof, proof that the first suitor wasnt insincere. Proof that her original belief of herself might be wrong. The mind will not allow for that struggleplain and simple. It will always believe one or the other. Either I am or I am not.
What does your boyfriend believe? What does he believe about the past pains that have led him to this point? Is there a point that you see him thinking differently about himself? To hang out with addicts and say that there is some benefit is addictionfull of excuses.
All The best,
Don
L in a F
My man has friends who he visits who are active addicts and the truth is they are still his friends even though he is almost clean. If he wants to score from them he will. If he doesn't he won't. If they weren't his friends and he wanted to score heds find some dealer somewhere. An addict will even in a strange city, within a few hours, always find a dealer. It is as others have said what is in your man's mind, his recovery. For many staying away from temptation helps with their recovery but again that is his decision to make and if it was me I'd keep my opinion to himself. He's an adult, and if he's serious about quitting you have to credit him with some willpower.
My man has friends who he visits who are active addicts and the truth is they are still his friends even though he is almost clean. If he wants to score from them he will. If he doesn't he won't. If they weren't his friends and he wanted to score heds find some dealer somewhere. An addict will even in a strange city, within a few hours, always find a dealer. It is as others have said what is in your man's mind, his recovery. For many staying away from temptation helps with their recovery but again that is his decision to make and if it was me I'd keep my opinion to himself. He's an adult, and if he's serious about quitting you have to credit him with some willpower.
Hi lostinaforest.
I'm in very much a similar situation myself. When I was a full on junkie,I had a mate(most junkies operate in partnerships,either as bf/gf, or just a few mates) who was my confidant,co-schemer,and the only proper friend I consider myself as having had as a junkie. Where most junkies are interested in you only for what they can get something out of you,with my mate it was different.
It helped like in your bfs case that we could relate on a level to each others sense of misery and suffering that no-one else could It also helped that we shared certain views that bonded us to each other.You can only truly understand a junkie by being/having been one. I can see that you love your bf and are patient and long-suffering in a way that most people could never approach.You have never been addicted to this drug and yet you still try to help him without letting him take advantage of your good nature.That's quite rare. Most would either kick them out regardless of what might happen and are not willing to even try to help.Or,at the other extreme,you get some that are either so blinded by love or denial(usually both) that they believe everything they're told. I knew a friend once who had a bf who was a junkie.I knew this because we used to score from the same source. She was always saying she couldn't understand how she'd overspent that month again.Er....hello....you're bf is stealing from you. The ultimare came when he was caught red-handed taking 2 grand in a case from the back-room safe(she owned a business).This time she threw him out and considered pressing charges. I didn't see her for a month but when I did,I was utterly flabbergasted.He was standing at the bar right next to her and she was looking at him with puppy-dog eyes buying his drinks,it was like nothing had happened.
But you are amongst the rare few that seem to be able to walk the middle line. You love him;yes...you want to help him;yes....you try to understand him and are sympathetic to his plight and his need but you do not condone it whatsoever. Your bf doesn't realise how lucky he is. I would forego food for a week and more to have some one like you in my corner,even just as a friend,not neccessarily a gf.I would have all the support I needed to help me through the rough patches,the depression,the hoplessness but at the same time have someone there to impose the neccessary no-nonsense discipline at moments of inevitable weakness.
I digress. With my friend,I think it works because we have some ground rules. If I need his support and he's got junkie mates round,he'll text me to tell me not to go round,give him an hour or 2 to get rid of them 1st. And even though he uses in front of me,we have an understanding that he will not give me any smack no matter what.In the worst case scenario which is if he finds me suicidally depressed, he will ring 999 or if absolutely neccessary(they don't often dispatch ambulances in these situations),he will drive me in my car(he doesn't own one) to the hospital and get me checked into a psych ward.But no matter how much I beg or plead or ask,he will not under any circumstances give me some. "If you want it, you'll have to get it yourself.I can't stop you but I'm not helping you one bit". Even if he borrows the money off me to score(which technically makes it mine),same rules apply.
At the end of the day though,he is a using addict whilst I'm going through a period of being clean which I'm hoping I will be able to extend through into my future and make it permanant. Which begs the question that as the equation changes where I move from a 'survival' state to one where by some miracle I stay clean long enough,get off the heroin rollercoaster and maybe even get a job.What then? I will undoubtedly have new aquaintences,some may become friends,possibly (as remote as it seems now) even a gf!!!.How will this affect our friendship?I've promised him that I will always stay true to our years of being the best of friends.I hope I can stay true to that word.Only time will tell.
I hope I've helped.Relating to you how I deal with it is all I could really do as I'm in this situation myself.
All the best.
Reshie
I'm in very much a similar situation myself. When I was a full on junkie,I had a mate(most junkies operate in partnerships,either as bf/gf, or just a few mates) who was my confidant,co-schemer,and the only proper friend I consider myself as having had as a junkie. Where most junkies are interested in you only for what they can get something out of you,with my mate it was different.
It helped like in your bfs case that we could relate on a level to each others sense of misery and suffering that no-one else could It also helped that we shared certain views that bonded us to each other.You can only truly understand a junkie by being/having been one. I can see that you love your bf and are patient and long-suffering in a way that most people could never approach.You have never been addicted to this drug and yet you still try to help him without letting him take advantage of your good nature.That's quite rare. Most would either kick them out regardless of what might happen and are not willing to even try to help.Or,at the other extreme,you get some that are either so blinded by love or denial(usually both) that they believe everything they're told. I knew a friend once who had a bf who was a junkie.I knew this because we used to score from the same source. She was always saying she couldn't understand how she'd overspent that month again.Er....hello....you're bf is stealing from you. The ultimare came when he was caught red-handed taking 2 grand in a case from the back-room safe(she owned a business).This time she threw him out and considered pressing charges. I didn't see her for a month but when I did,I was utterly flabbergasted.He was standing at the bar right next to her and she was looking at him with puppy-dog eyes buying his drinks,it was like nothing had happened.
But you are amongst the rare few that seem to be able to walk the middle line. You love him;yes...you want to help him;yes....you try to understand him and are sympathetic to his plight and his need but you do not condone it whatsoever. Your bf doesn't realise how lucky he is. I would forego food for a week and more to have some one like you in my corner,even just as a friend,not neccessarily a gf.I would have all the support I needed to help me through the rough patches,the depression,the hoplessness but at the same time have someone there to impose the neccessary no-nonsense discipline at moments of inevitable weakness.
I digress. With my friend,I think it works because we have some ground rules. If I need his support and he's got junkie mates round,he'll text me to tell me not to go round,give him an hour or 2 to get rid of them 1st. And even though he uses in front of me,we have an understanding that he will not give me any smack no matter what.In the worst case scenario which is if he finds me suicidally depressed, he will ring 999 or if absolutely neccessary(they don't often dispatch ambulances in these situations),he will drive me in my car(he doesn't own one) to the hospital and get me checked into a psych ward.But no matter how much I beg or plead or ask,he will not under any circumstances give me some. "If you want it, you'll have to get it yourself.I can't stop you but I'm not helping you one bit". Even if he borrows the money off me to score(which technically makes it mine),same rules apply.
At the end of the day though,he is a using addict whilst I'm going through a period of being clean which I'm hoping I will be able to extend through into my future and make it permanant. Which begs the question that as the equation changes where I move from a 'survival' state to one where by some miracle I stay clean long enough,get off the heroin rollercoaster and maybe even get a job.What then? I will undoubtedly have new aquaintences,some may become friends,possibly (as remote as it seems now) even a gf!!!.How will this affect our friendship?I've promised him that I will always stay true to our years of being the best of friends.I hope I can stay true to that word.Only time will tell.
I hope I've helped.Relating to you how I deal with it is all I could really do as I'm in this situation myself.
All the best.
Reshie
Mary, chidon, jazwan and reshie, thank you so much for your replies it has meant a lot to me and i have got a lot from each of them.
Mary, your post is exactly what i already thought 'a thousand times no' It has become very apparent that he is not commited to staying clean and indeed is on a very dangerous path. In the three and a half years we have been together i have never seen him so so so down, depressed and abusing so much. Needles that were once a 'once in a blue moon' find are a daily occurance for both heroin and subutex, his drinking has escalated back up to its worst level (he stayed here last night and popped out at eight this morning for a bottle of rum). He no longer seems to even care, i hope he finds the strength from somewhere. I hope you are right and that he picks me and sobriety and not his friend and oblivion.
Chidon, your post i found very interesting. I don't know much about psychology and how the mind works but you explained it very well. He believes he is worthless scum that should be punished for what he has done and what he has become. Nothing seems to dissuade him from this train of thought.....at all. Myself and his parents have tried to point out what a loving, caring, thoughtful man he is and that he has been punished enough by what this drug has done to him. We have also said that we forgive him for everything he has done but that he has to forgive himself too, we just want him to be well. He can't seem to accept our forgiveness and most definitely cannot forgive himself......he says 'HOW? HOW do i forgive myself and move on...i just don;t know how to do it!' and i don't have the answers. I have tried to say, start by looking after yourself and just not picking up that drink or scoring and the longer time goes on you will have something to be proud of and maybe then you can start to forgive yourself when you see yourself doing good instead of doing more things to be ashamed of and feel guilty for, but he is not ready to listen. I don't know if i can see him changing his belief about himself and yet he clearly has strength to have come as far as he did before his slide so maybe there is hope......
Jazwan, you are right if he wants to score he will and he does and has...
When i try to gently say it is your recovery and it is up to you at the end of the day he gets angry and feels i am abandoning him so i think you are right i must keep my opinions to myself. On the other hand he does listen and learn from things that i have said and has told me how useful they have been to him so i am at a loss as to what to do....i don't want him to think that i don't care and there is noone else that is presenting him with the case for sobriety....do i just leave him to the vultures? I know it makes little difference anyway but at least i feel i have tried.....
Reshie, your post made me cry, you said some wonderful things to me and i so appreciate your words. I can understand that need to have a friend that can relate to what he is going through especially now he is living on his own and due to the situation we are seeing less of each other and his parents are away for five weeks, he has no job and sees very few people and is desperately lonely. I try to be there for him but he makes it so hard, he will not respect my ground rules....no drinking in my house, no needles in my house, no drugs other than prescribed subutex in my house, no stealing drink or money from me. He phoned yesterday and wanted to come up to cook a meal for me, i have made my rules clear and thought he could respect them but he arrived stinking of drink, made the meal then fell asleep, i found a needle in his baccy pouch and a full bottle of rum stashed in the garden. When i asked him to leave he said i'd treated him like a cook, was ungrateful etc etc.....he wanted his drink back now. I said he could have it when he left. He was welcome to stay (it was late and no lights on his bike) but if he did then no drink. He said he would go but wanted a drink before he left...i stuck to my guns and said NO you can have it when you leave or you will get more drunk and belligerent and i am not getting involved in a drunken fight with you (i stayed remarkably calm!) He said 'Oh you want me to leave feeling terrible do you? thanks for that, thats very nice' he really did try every trick in the book but i stuck to it. So he left, went and drank loads of rum and then came back.....to apologise but was drunk...it ended in a fight i had tried to avoid. To avoid more argument i said he could stay on the couch......he pushed and pushed and even poured the rest of the rum down the sink when i said he could only stay if i took it off him. He slept in my bed as i could argue no more and then got up at eight, went to the shop bought a bottle of rum and brought it back with him, lied, hid it under the couch. Again i asked him to leave but got guilt trips....he makes it SO hard to enforce my boundaries but i did it and he left. I am left drained, exhausted but proud that i managed to stick to my guns, feel manipulated that he got his way anyway......
I'm ranting now i know....just needed to download it before i go to work, thanks for listening and thanks for relating your story it has really helped. You must be SO strong to resist in the face of you friend doing it right in front of you and by the way, you do have someone like me in your corner....me. If you ever need support through the depression, encouragement when you are doing well and 'no-nonsense discipline at moments of weakness' i'll be right here.....
Thanks everyone love and peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Mary, your post is exactly what i already thought 'a thousand times no' It has become very apparent that he is not commited to staying clean and indeed is on a very dangerous path. In the three and a half years we have been together i have never seen him so so so down, depressed and abusing so much. Needles that were once a 'once in a blue moon' find are a daily occurance for both heroin and subutex, his drinking has escalated back up to its worst level (he stayed here last night and popped out at eight this morning for a bottle of rum). He no longer seems to even care, i hope he finds the strength from somewhere. I hope you are right and that he picks me and sobriety and not his friend and oblivion.
Chidon, your post i found very interesting. I don't know much about psychology and how the mind works but you explained it very well. He believes he is worthless scum that should be punished for what he has done and what he has become. Nothing seems to dissuade him from this train of thought.....at all. Myself and his parents have tried to point out what a loving, caring, thoughtful man he is and that he has been punished enough by what this drug has done to him. We have also said that we forgive him for everything he has done but that he has to forgive himself too, we just want him to be well. He can't seem to accept our forgiveness and most definitely cannot forgive himself......he says 'HOW? HOW do i forgive myself and move on...i just don;t know how to do it!' and i don't have the answers. I have tried to say, start by looking after yourself and just not picking up that drink or scoring and the longer time goes on you will have something to be proud of and maybe then you can start to forgive yourself when you see yourself doing good instead of doing more things to be ashamed of and feel guilty for, but he is not ready to listen. I don't know if i can see him changing his belief about himself and yet he clearly has strength to have come as far as he did before his slide so maybe there is hope......
Jazwan, you are right if he wants to score he will and he does and has...
When i try to gently say it is your recovery and it is up to you at the end of the day he gets angry and feels i am abandoning him so i think you are right i must keep my opinions to myself. On the other hand he does listen and learn from things that i have said and has told me how useful they have been to him so i am at a loss as to what to do....i don't want him to think that i don't care and there is noone else that is presenting him with the case for sobriety....do i just leave him to the vultures? I know it makes little difference anyway but at least i feel i have tried.....
Reshie, your post made me cry, you said some wonderful things to me and i so appreciate your words. I can understand that need to have a friend that can relate to what he is going through especially now he is living on his own and due to the situation we are seeing less of each other and his parents are away for five weeks, he has no job and sees very few people and is desperately lonely. I try to be there for him but he makes it so hard, he will not respect my ground rules....no drinking in my house, no needles in my house, no drugs other than prescribed subutex in my house, no stealing drink or money from me. He phoned yesterday and wanted to come up to cook a meal for me, i have made my rules clear and thought he could respect them but he arrived stinking of drink, made the meal then fell asleep, i found a needle in his baccy pouch and a full bottle of rum stashed in the garden. When i asked him to leave he said i'd treated him like a cook, was ungrateful etc etc.....he wanted his drink back now. I said he could have it when he left. He was welcome to stay (it was late and no lights on his bike) but if he did then no drink. He said he would go but wanted a drink before he left...i stuck to my guns and said NO you can have it when you leave or you will get more drunk and belligerent and i am not getting involved in a drunken fight with you (i stayed remarkably calm!) He said 'Oh you want me to leave feeling terrible do you? thanks for that, thats very nice' he really did try every trick in the book but i stuck to it. So he left, went and drank loads of rum and then came back.....to apologise but was drunk...it ended in a fight i had tried to avoid. To avoid more argument i said he could stay on the couch......he pushed and pushed and even poured the rest of the rum down the sink when i said he could only stay if i took it off him. He slept in my bed as i could argue no more and then got up at eight, went to the shop bought a bottle of rum and brought it back with him, lied, hid it under the couch. Again i asked him to leave but got guilt trips....he makes it SO hard to enforce my boundaries but i did it and he left. I am left drained, exhausted but proud that i managed to stick to my guns, feel manipulated that he got his way anyway......
I'm ranting now i know....just needed to download it before i go to work, thanks for listening and thanks for relating your story it has really helped. You must be SO strong to resist in the face of you friend doing it right in front of you and by the way, you do have someone like me in your corner....me. If you ever need support through the depression, encouragement when you are doing well and 'no-nonsense discipline at moments of weakness' i'll be right here.....
Thanks everyone love and peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi there.
Good on you for sticking up for yourself. You must really really love this guy(lucky ol' thing) because he really pushed you to the absolute limit.Used every trick in the book.He offers to cook you a meal but I'll put money on that it was you that paid for the ingredients. So before anything else has happened,he's already got a meal out of it(I apologise if I'm mistaken;I shouldn't really jump to conclusions).
Once he's there,he does the 'hide and seek' routine as I like to call it. And when he's caught,out comes the guilt-trip saying you treat him like a cook to deflect from his misdeeds by attempting to spread the blame.(It's like,"ok I've broken the rules but you're not innocent either as you just 'use' me to cook for you").Classic blame-game. And when all else fails,he throws his toys out of the pram and storms off using the argument as spurious moral ammunition to get steaming drunk. Then fuelled by the alcohol and drugs he comes back and starts a big row which he uses to wear you down,little by little he wears you down just a bit more,then another bit,then another,until you just haven't got the desire to keep on fighting so he wins by default. Look at how the night ends. He's broken all the rules, is full of chemicals yet he's lying next to you in a comfy bed. But to then get up first thing in the morning and go straight to get himself a bottle of rum. That's where I think you should have put your foot down and kept it there. OK you had a bad night but this is a new day,a fresh morning. You should not have had to put up with the fresh bottle of rum. Even if he poured the remainder down the sink. It's just my opinion so don't take it if you feek I'm wrong as I'm not in full possesion of all the facts. But I think just by letting him through the door,you've gone right back to square one and just picked up where you left off from the night before. If you had made a stand and said "bottle of rum = you're not coming in.Period".And if he started to try and play on your kindness or guit-trio you or any kind of ploy,you should have just quietly shut the door. There's no need to slam the door in someone's face. You're not making more of a point or a bigger stand. All you're really doing is making more noise.Shutting it calmly and quietly is also less likely to precipitate histrionics from him.But the main thing is you would have drawn a line in the sand."this is as far as you go,but not one step farther,nay not even one inch farther". It would have driven your stand right home into his mind. He would have learnt that you have a point beyond which he cannot go. No discussion,no negotiation,no nothing.End of story.
No doubt you're thinking that I'm being un-neccessarily harsh.I wouldn't blame you.But addicts use people.I did to many many people some of whom will not ever speak to me again I think.But very often,we use people not because we are malicious and want to.It's because we have to.To feed our addictions,we change and become all-consumed by this raging beast that demands everything and takes everything,material possesions;friends;self-respect;honour and integrity;our minds and in too many cases,our health.We're killing ourselves every day.If we walk this road to it's natural conclusion, it will end in incarceration,an asylum or a morgue.Those are the endings and it's anybody's guess which it'll be. Our only chance is to stop. If we can achieve that,we have a real chance at becoming something,doing something and regaining our lostinawood self-respect.
We can then hold our heads up.
I hope I've not upset or angered you in anyway. If I have,I assure you it was completely unintentional and I never set out to hurt your feelings or demean you in any way. But I thought to myself,if we can't be really honest on an anonymous website,where can we be honest and speak freely? So I chose to "tell it like it is" and not hold back. I hope I have at least given you some insight into what makes your bf tick and explain his seemingly self-defeating behaviour.Because once you cease caring,you'll just sink down and do whatever.whenever and to hell with the consequences.Rules?The only rule is the rule of the dragon(allegorical for heroin).That is it.
I sincerely wish you all the best with this guy. And that it works out for you,whether you stay with him or not. You're such a sweet person.I so hope the best for you in and through life.
Yr pal
Reshie..
Good on you for sticking up for yourself. You must really really love this guy(lucky ol' thing) because he really pushed you to the absolute limit.Used every trick in the book.He offers to cook you a meal but I'll put money on that it was you that paid for the ingredients. So before anything else has happened,he's already got a meal out of it(I apologise if I'm mistaken;I shouldn't really jump to conclusions).
Once he's there,he does the 'hide and seek' routine as I like to call it. And when he's caught,out comes the guilt-trip saying you treat him like a cook to deflect from his misdeeds by attempting to spread the blame.(It's like,"ok I've broken the rules but you're not innocent either as you just 'use' me to cook for you").Classic blame-game. And when all else fails,he throws his toys out of the pram and storms off using the argument as spurious moral ammunition to get steaming drunk. Then fuelled by the alcohol and drugs he comes back and starts a big row which he uses to wear you down,little by little he wears you down just a bit more,then another bit,then another,until you just haven't got the desire to keep on fighting so he wins by default. Look at how the night ends. He's broken all the rules, is full of chemicals yet he's lying next to you in a comfy bed. But to then get up first thing in the morning and go straight to get himself a bottle of rum. That's where I think you should have put your foot down and kept it there. OK you had a bad night but this is a new day,a fresh morning. You should not have had to put up with the fresh bottle of rum. Even if he poured the remainder down the sink. It's just my opinion so don't take it if you feek I'm wrong as I'm not in full possesion of all the facts. But I think just by letting him through the door,you've gone right back to square one and just picked up where you left off from the night before. If you had made a stand and said "bottle of rum = you're not coming in.Period".And if he started to try and play on your kindness or guit-trio you or any kind of ploy,you should have just quietly shut the door. There's no need to slam the door in someone's face. You're not making more of a point or a bigger stand. All you're really doing is making more noise.Shutting it calmly and quietly is also less likely to precipitate histrionics from him.But the main thing is you would have drawn a line in the sand."this is as far as you go,but not one step farther,nay not even one inch farther". It would have driven your stand right home into his mind. He would have learnt that you have a point beyond which he cannot go. No discussion,no negotiation,no nothing.End of story.
No doubt you're thinking that I'm being un-neccessarily harsh.I wouldn't blame you.But addicts use people.I did to many many people some of whom will not ever speak to me again I think.But very often,we use people not because we are malicious and want to.It's because we have to.To feed our addictions,we change and become all-consumed by this raging beast that demands everything and takes everything,material possesions;friends;self-respect;honour and integrity;our minds and in too many cases,our health.We're killing ourselves every day.If we walk this road to it's natural conclusion, it will end in incarceration,an asylum or a morgue.Those are the endings and it's anybody's guess which it'll be. Our only chance is to stop. If we can achieve that,we have a real chance at becoming something,doing something and regaining our lostinawood self-respect.
We can then hold our heads up.
I hope I've not upset or angered you in anyway. If I have,I assure you it was completely unintentional and I never set out to hurt your feelings or demean you in any way. But I thought to myself,if we can't be really honest on an anonymous website,where can we be honest and speak freely? So I chose to "tell it like it is" and not hold back. I hope I have at least given you some insight into what makes your bf tick and explain his seemingly self-defeating behaviour.Because once you cease caring,you'll just sink down and do whatever.whenever and to hell with the consequences.Rules?The only rule is the rule of the dragon(allegorical for heroin).That is it.
I sincerely wish you all the best with this guy. And that it works out for you,whether you stay with him or not. You're such a sweet person.I so hope the best for you in and through life.
Yr pal
Reshie..
Hi Reshie,
First of all, thanks for your reply, second i don't think you were harsh at all....I'm here for the truth and as many opinions as i can gather to help me and, as you say, if you can't be honest on an anonymous site....i think its what makes this place work so well, people can tell you the way they see it without worrying that you won't speak to them at the next party or at the school gates.
I was really pleased with what you said about putting my foot down the next day with the bottle of rum....because its exactly what i did. I was still in bed upstairs when he went out and got the rum, i knew what he was doing so wrote him a note and left it on the chair saying 'if you've just bought alcohol then please go home'. He came upstairs with a whole bunch of reasons why he'd gone to the shop at eight in the morning, at which point i went downstairs, put my hand under the couch, found the rum and asked him to leave. As you suggested i did it calmly and went back upstairs, half an hour later i heard him get a text and leave. At least we avoided another ugly confrontation because at least this time he wasn't drunk....yet. He did however go straight round to his addict friends house so i guess it gave him a good excuse to score. (this being the friend that he'd just told he couldn't see any more for the umpteenth time....oh and had one 'last' hit of smack with to 'say goodbye')
I know he is not being malicious towards me in his actions, i know it is the nature of addiction but i'm learning that i must not only set boundaries but also enforce them (which is the hard bit) as otherwise he will just ignore them....
His lack of self esteem and the guilt and shame of what he has done in the past seem to be stopping him from moving forward, indeed are making him slide backwards and in my opinion the only way he will regain his self respect is to beat this addiction thereby giving himself something to be proud of. However, when he was so nearly there, nearly at the end of relying on the subutex and had done so well with his drink rehab....it still wasn't enough. I tried to point out that beating heroin is one of the hardest things you can do and a more difficult challenge than most people have EVER had to face in their lives and therefore something to be incredibly proud of....he simply said but i got myself in that situation to start with and i've lost everything that i was proud of (job, nice flat, car, etc) and now i have nothing so how can i be proud. I don't know if thats depression talking, addiction or both but he thinks so negatively about himself...rarely give himself any credit for good deeds. I hope one day he can learn to love himself.
Thanks for your kind words and support reshie, you certainly haven't angered or upset me...the exact opposite! How are you doing? You sound very positive, i hope you are still feeling it too. Any joy on moving house? How is your little girl, has she been keeping you topped up with Daddy hugs?
Sending lots of love and thanks xxxxx
First of all, thanks for your reply, second i don't think you were harsh at all....I'm here for the truth and as many opinions as i can gather to help me and, as you say, if you can't be honest on an anonymous site....i think its what makes this place work so well, people can tell you the way they see it without worrying that you won't speak to them at the next party or at the school gates.
I was really pleased with what you said about putting my foot down the next day with the bottle of rum....because its exactly what i did. I was still in bed upstairs when he went out and got the rum, i knew what he was doing so wrote him a note and left it on the chair saying 'if you've just bought alcohol then please go home'. He came upstairs with a whole bunch of reasons why he'd gone to the shop at eight in the morning, at which point i went downstairs, put my hand under the couch, found the rum and asked him to leave. As you suggested i did it calmly and went back upstairs, half an hour later i heard him get a text and leave. At least we avoided another ugly confrontation because at least this time he wasn't drunk....yet. He did however go straight round to his addict friends house so i guess it gave him a good excuse to score. (this being the friend that he'd just told he couldn't see any more for the umpteenth time....oh and had one 'last' hit of smack with to 'say goodbye')
I know he is not being malicious towards me in his actions, i know it is the nature of addiction but i'm learning that i must not only set boundaries but also enforce them (which is the hard bit) as otherwise he will just ignore them....
His lack of self esteem and the guilt and shame of what he has done in the past seem to be stopping him from moving forward, indeed are making him slide backwards and in my opinion the only way he will regain his self respect is to beat this addiction thereby giving himself something to be proud of. However, when he was so nearly there, nearly at the end of relying on the subutex and had done so well with his drink rehab....it still wasn't enough. I tried to point out that beating heroin is one of the hardest things you can do and a more difficult challenge than most people have EVER had to face in their lives and therefore something to be incredibly proud of....he simply said but i got myself in that situation to start with and i've lost everything that i was proud of (job, nice flat, car, etc) and now i have nothing so how can i be proud. I don't know if thats depression talking, addiction or both but he thinks so negatively about himself...rarely give himself any credit for good deeds. I hope one day he can learn to love himself.
Thanks for your kind words and support reshie, you certainly haven't angered or upset me...the exact opposite! How are you doing? You sound very positive, i hope you are still feeling it too. Any joy on moving house? How is your little girl, has she been keeping you topped up with Daddy hugs?
Sending lots of love and thanks xxxxx
A DRUG IS A DRUG IS A DRUG and all drug roads lead to hell...
EXCUSE EXCUSE EXCUSES....and all excuses lead to even more
excuses.....
HIM HIM HIM....wadda about YOU YOU YOU
MARY
EXCUSE EXCUSE EXCUSES....and all excuses lead to even more
excuses.....
HIM HIM HIM....wadda about YOU YOU YOU
MARY
Hi Lost,
When my daughter was in active addiction we gave her a choice: she could go to detox, come out, work a program, and contribute to family life STARTING NOW...or she could take her drugs and leave...she left. Two days later she called, cried, and said she'd go to detox but that she wanted and needed to be home. So off she went to detox, got herself the bed, made the calls while in WDs...spent 6 days, was released and then told me it was our fault she lost her job because we wouldn't let her detox at home (again). I almost bought it...
My home is not a detox facility and the choice to go was hers, just as the choice to shoot H in the restroom to get through the day at work was hers. I was tired of seeing the highs, of seeing the WDs, of knowing she was scoring and bringing it into our home...tired of watching her hurt herself. I set my boundaries and it was HARD to stick to them, but we did it.
Do not buy into the reverse-blame game...you cannot win...he will find a way to make it about you not being kind enough, not caring enough, not loving him...but that's not what it's about at all. Making it about you is the easiest way to make it NOT about him.
Someone here told me early on, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean." Remaining calm takes every ounce of self-control I have, and I don't always succeed, but when the yelling starts, communication ends...and I have been responsible for ending plenty of communication...LOL.
Jazwan, I think your man has endured because he respects your boundaries, which have been set with love for him and yourself in mind. The way you have have responded to his addiction...seeing the man and not just the addict...has made your relationship work, but in many ways he is the exception rather than the rule, as Tina's husband is the exception. Much of it is due to the way you two work your own sides of things and it is such a shining example for those of us who struggle. Thanks for always being a light in the darkness.
Peace ~ MomNMore
When my daughter was in active addiction we gave her a choice: she could go to detox, come out, work a program, and contribute to family life STARTING NOW...or she could take her drugs and leave...she left. Two days later she called, cried, and said she'd go to detox but that she wanted and needed to be home. So off she went to detox, got herself the bed, made the calls while in WDs...spent 6 days, was released and then told me it was our fault she lost her job because we wouldn't let her detox at home (again). I almost bought it...
My home is not a detox facility and the choice to go was hers, just as the choice to shoot H in the restroom to get through the day at work was hers. I was tired of seeing the highs, of seeing the WDs, of knowing she was scoring and bringing it into our home...tired of watching her hurt herself. I set my boundaries and it was HARD to stick to them, but we did it.
Do not buy into the reverse-blame game...you cannot win...he will find a way to make it about you not being kind enough, not caring enough, not loving him...but that's not what it's about at all. Making it about you is the easiest way to make it NOT about him.
Someone here told me early on, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean." Remaining calm takes every ounce of self-control I have, and I don't always succeed, but when the yelling starts, communication ends...and I have been responsible for ending plenty of communication...LOL.
Jazwan, I think your man has endured because he respects your boundaries, which have been set with love for him and yourself in mind. The way you have have responded to his addiction...seeing the man and not just the addict...has made your relationship work, but in many ways he is the exception rather than the rule, as Tina's husband is the exception. Much of it is due to the way you two work your own sides of things and it is such a shining example for those of us who struggle. Thanks for always being a light in the darkness.
Peace ~ MomNMore
Thanks momnmore and mary for your replies.
You're right Mary, i know i need to focus on me and i am, but can't help wanting him to perhaps receive some help from this board same as i have.....I didn't print the replies for him, have left him to it other than odd phone call and been to my parents for a bonfire, had a car breakdown disaster and best friends birthday party is tonight so that has kept me busy! He is not invited to any of the above...if i can't trust him not to bring drink or needles into my house then i am definitely not taking him to party where there are children and i want to be able to have a good time without worrying what he's doing. he is feeling bad that he is no longer part of things but knows it is his own fault and i hope i am showing him how much fun he could be having if he made the right decisions.
Momnmore, it is so hard to enforce the boundaries isn't it? I thought he would respect them once i made them clear....naive aren't i? I have said ever so calmly, if you've had a drink or drugs then i don't want you here...i'll see you when you are clean but he is so lonely that he wants to see me and thinks he will 'get away with it'. It was very hard to send him packing but harder to have him here and once i have calmed down and the panic and anxiety have passed i am proud of myself for sticking to my guns. The reverse blame game is difficult because although i know i have done everything i can and it is up to him there is still that pathetic little voice in me saying 'he's lonely maybe if you saw him more he would feel better/use less/etc etc'
Having said all that he phoned yesterday and has an interview for a job and has got several more applications for others so maybe he is starting to help himself......maybe.
Anyway i'm off to a fabulous party tonight hoping to have a lot of fun and something nice for a change! Hope you are all well.
Sending big hugs and thanks as always xxx
You're right Mary, i know i need to focus on me and i am, but can't help wanting him to perhaps receive some help from this board same as i have.....I didn't print the replies for him, have left him to it other than odd phone call and been to my parents for a bonfire, had a car breakdown disaster and best friends birthday party is tonight so that has kept me busy! He is not invited to any of the above...if i can't trust him not to bring drink or needles into my house then i am definitely not taking him to party where there are children and i want to be able to have a good time without worrying what he's doing. he is feeling bad that he is no longer part of things but knows it is his own fault and i hope i am showing him how much fun he could be having if he made the right decisions.
Momnmore, it is so hard to enforce the boundaries isn't it? I thought he would respect them once i made them clear....naive aren't i? I have said ever so calmly, if you've had a drink or drugs then i don't want you here...i'll see you when you are clean but he is so lonely that he wants to see me and thinks he will 'get away with it'. It was very hard to send him packing but harder to have him here and once i have calmed down and the panic and anxiety have passed i am proud of myself for sticking to my guns. The reverse blame game is difficult because although i know i have done everything i can and it is up to him there is still that pathetic little voice in me saying 'he's lonely maybe if you saw him more he would feel better/use less/etc etc'
Having said all that he phoned yesterday and has an interview for a job and has got several more applications for others so maybe he is starting to help himself......maybe.
Anyway i'm off to a fabulous party tonight hoping to have a lot of fun and something nice for a change! Hope you are all well.
Sending big hugs and thanks as always xxx
| QUOTE |
| Momnmore, it is so hard to enforce the boundaries isn't it? I thought he would respect them once i made them clear....naive aren't i? |
It is hard at first. And we have had such inconsistent and permeable 'boundarie' for so long that they have gotten mixed messages from us, so naturally they will test and push to see if we really mean it this time.
As long as you are consistent he will eventually get the message. Glad things are keeping YOU busy and focused on yourself.
Peace ~ M&M
Listen to MnMs advice, there is one big thing there that stands out -
Be consistent - It is the root of getting any relationship with an addict right. If you're being tough stay tough, if you allow things always allow them. Don't ever lend him money one day and not the next or the worst EVER thing. Don't say you love him no matter what then say I can't love you if you keep using. It will confuses and hurt him. You have to have respect for eachother as people and you can't measure or withdraw it according to how much he scores. He is sick, it's his fault he got this way but its only partly his fault that he's stay that way.
MnM
Light in the darkness if only. Feel more like a bell in the fog at the moment. Still now down to one amp - yipee and only 40mls of meth. more Yipees. Every time he drops an amp I get a present and he gets a footy ticket which is a good deal I feel.
k
Be consistent - It is the root of getting any relationship with an addict right. If you're being tough stay tough, if you allow things always allow them. Don't ever lend him money one day and not the next or the worst EVER thing. Don't say you love him no matter what then say I can't love you if you keep using. It will confuses and hurt him. You have to have respect for eachother as people and you can't measure or withdraw it according to how much he scores. He is sick, it's his fault he got this way but its only partly his fault that he's stay that way.
MnM
Light in the darkness if only. Feel more like a bell in the fog at the moment. Still now down to one amp - yipee and only 40mls of meth. more Yipees. Every time he drops an amp I get a present and he gets a footy ticket which is a good deal I feel.
k
