Hi all, just wanted to let you know that I am off sub after a successful 38 day program. I tapered slow and hopped off after 3 days on 1 mg with very little trouble. My doctor prescribed Clonidine for the sweats, which I didn't even need. He also told me to take salt tablets (4 - 1 gram pills a day) as your body is very salt depleted when withdrawing. He said this helps a lot with the weakness and sweating and I think it really did. My pharmacy (Stop and Shop) had to order the salt pills but it only took a day and they were very inexpensive ($7.00 for a hundred of them)
So I am again urging anyone who really wants off of the roller coaster to find a sub doctor. As I've said before, for me it was the only way out and the best decision I've made (after cutting off all my sources and going on a mood stabilizer). I have ZERO craving to use and am happy to be free!
My heartfelt thanks to JohnDee for his support.
Hi,
Congratulations! I've got a few questions about your experience on Sub that I'm hoping you can share. Today is day 7 on sub. I was taking about 20 norcos a day (10mg) for about 6 weeks, and 15-18 a day for the better part of two years before I bumped up to 20. My first day of sub I did 12mg (3 doses of 4mg), and it's been 8mg a day (4mg twice a day) for the past 5 days. My doc (an addiction specialist) also put me on the clonodine patch, and perscribed 2 teaspoons of chloral hydrate at night to help me sleep.
While I haven't had the urge to take pills since I started, I'm concerned that I am just as physically dependent on opiates as I was last week. I'm still constepated and retaining water (only peeing once or twice a day), and I'm sleeping just as much as I was when I was taking pills. My body is starting to hurt, and I feel worse today than I did 5 days ago. I'm just confused about how long I should plan on staying on the subutex, and when I stop taking it will it be worse than coming off of the norcos? Can you share with me your dosage over the 38 days? Thanks!
Congratulations! I've got a few questions about your experience on Sub that I'm hoping you can share. Today is day 7 on sub. I was taking about 20 norcos a day (10mg) for about 6 weeks, and 15-18 a day for the better part of two years before I bumped up to 20. My first day of sub I did 12mg (3 doses of 4mg), and it's been 8mg a day (4mg twice a day) for the past 5 days. My doc (an addiction specialist) also put me on the clonodine patch, and perscribed 2 teaspoons of chloral hydrate at night to help me sleep.
While I haven't had the urge to take pills since I started, I'm concerned that I am just as physically dependent on opiates as I was last week. I'm still constepated and retaining water (only peeing once or twice a day), and I'm sleeping just as much as I was when I was taking pills. My body is starting to hurt, and I feel worse today than I did 5 days ago. I'm just confused about how long I should plan on staying on the subutex, and when I stop taking it will it be worse than coming off of the norcos? Can you share with me your dosage over the 38 days? Thanks!
I shared your concerns...how would I not want to use after I went off sub...and I have a few answers for you...but first...
I started at 12 mg day (which I think was much too high as it made me spacy). I was taking 30+ percs or norcos a day. I stayed at 12 mg for about 2 weeks, then went to 8, then to 4, then 2, then 1, then off. I didn't have any problem weaning down (no WDs and no cravings). I was also put on a mood stabilizer (Lamactil) and Seroquel for sleep..more in a minute
I started at 12 mg day (which I think was much too high as it made me spacy). I was taking 30+ percs or norcos a day. I stayed at 12 mg for about 2 weeks, then went to 8, then to 4, then 2, then 1, then off. I didn't have any problem weaning down (no WDs and no cravings). I was also put on a mood stabilizer (Lamactil) and Seroquel for sleep..more in a minute
Hi there! I started sub a few weeks ago after using 30+ pills a day for a year and 15-25 for several years before that. I'm on 24 mgs of sub a day and sometimes need another 8 mgs at night, This amount seems to work for me. My sub doc (an addiction specialist) told me that many sub patients don't feel the relief that they can simply because they are a bit undermedicated from the sub. He said the sub docs like to use as little as possible and sometimes do not work with the patient closely enough to find the exact right dosage. 32 mgs in 24 hours is the max and he said that is usually for hard-core heroine addiction. He tried me at 8, 12 and 16 before finding that 24 works best for me. I'll be on this level for a while (long-term pain problem) then we will taper very slowly. Hope this helps.
J
J
I took pills for about 2 years before finding a sub doctor. when I started sub I was also put on a mood stabilizer (Lamactil) and Seroquel for sleep. I now have over a month of increasing dosage of Lamactil in my system and I truly believe it has beat the depression that is what made me use in the first place. I tapered off sub a little quicker than my doc suggested, but only because I was feeling good...and I also had a few extra pills in the event I had a hard time jumping off at the end (but I didn't). He also gave me clonidine but I didn't have any sweats when I went off. And he told me to take 4 grams of salt a day once I stopped the sub which helps with the weakness...this has helped a lot and if you don't have high blood pressure maybe it's a good idea for you as well.
I'm not sure why you are feeling so awful. Talk to your doctor. Everyone's journey on sub is different. Luckily mine was a breeze.
Now, as far as staying off...I had 2 options...an implant of Naltrexone (the ingredient in Sub which makes you sick if you use) or Naltrexone pills. I filled the script for the pills and the idea is you take it every day and if you use while on it you get terribly sick. Although since I have absolutely no craving to use and no source to get meds, I haven't had the need to take the naltrexone. The pills were covered by my insurance but the implant isn't and it's expensive $600 for 3 months...and I was concerned about what if I had to have emergency surgery and really NEEDED pain med, then with the implant I'd get very sick if I had meds or they'd have to take the implant out and wait for the naltrexone to get out of my system.
So that's my journey, and my maintenance plan is on the very first day I have a craving I'll take a pill -= but it will be naltrexone instead of percs or norco.
Good luck to you.
PS =- I was very constipated on sub as well. It gets better as you lower your dosage. I was also taking fish oil capsules which helped and drinking lots of water.
I'm not sure why you are feeling so awful. Talk to your doctor. Everyone's journey on sub is different. Luckily mine was a breeze.
Now, as far as staying off...I had 2 options...an implant of Naltrexone (the ingredient in Sub which makes you sick if you use) or Naltrexone pills. I filled the script for the pills and the idea is you take it every day and if you use while on it you get terribly sick. Although since I have absolutely no craving to use and no source to get meds, I haven't had the need to take the naltrexone. The pills were covered by my insurance but the implant isn't and it's expensive $600 for 3 months...and I was concerned about what if I had to have emergency surgery and really NEEDED pain med, then with the implant I'd get very sick if I had meds or they'd have to take the implant out and wait for the naltrexone to get out of my system.
So that's my journey, and my maintenance plan is on the very first day I have a craving I'll take a pill -= but it will be naltrexone instead of percs or norco.
Good luck to you.
PS =- I was very constipated on sub as well. It gets better as you lower your dosage. I was also taking fish oil capsules which helped and drinking lots of water.
KL,
I am happy to hear it worked well for you. Stay vigilante though, remember sub is not a "cure all".
Best Regards,
Tom
I am happy to hear it worked well for you. Stay vigilante though, remember sub is not a "cure all".
Best Regards,
Tom
Thanks Tom, but I respectfully disagree...it was a cureall for me as I had no other way off the rollercoaster. Between the sub and my mood stabilizer I'm in great shape and with the help of naltrexone if I need it I know I won't run into trouble...I simply was READY to be off drugs and took the steps to get there.
Everyone is different and what worked for me, may not work for the next person and vice versa...and I would never knock anyone else for whatever method they chose as long as it got them clean.
:)
Everyone is different and what worked for me, may not work for the next person and vice versa...and I would never knock anyone else for whatever method they chose as long as it got them clean.
:)
what is sub? trixie
trixie,
suboxoner is a very powerful narcotic, only when you take it you feel no euphoria. If you use while on it, you get very sick as it has another medication combined with it called naltrexone that counters the good stuff you feel when taking pills.
I'm sure someone far more educated will come along and give you a much better description...
doctors prescribe it to wean addicts off narcotics. Not all doctors can describe it and if you want it you must find one who does. some insurances cover it, some don't.. there is a lot posted on this board about it...some people have good success, some not so good. treatment for everyone is a very individual thing and I urge you not to be swayed by any one story and do what is right for you - whatever that may be - as long as it gets you to recovery.
Good luck and feel free to email me at ozergirl@yahoo.com for any questions
also check out the suboxone.com website
suboxoner is a very powerful narcotic, only when you take it you feel no euphoria. If you use while on it, you get very sick as it has another medication combined with it called naltrexone that counters the good stuff you feel when taking pills.
I'm sure someone far more educated will come along and give you a much better description...
doctors prescribe it to wean addicts off narcotics. Not all doctors can describe it and if you want it you must find one who does. some insurances cover it, some don't.. there is a lot posted on this board about it...some people have good success, some not so good. treatment for everyone is a very individual thing and I urge you not to be swayed by any one story and do what is right for you - whatever that may be - as long as it gets you to recovery.
Good luck and feel free to email me at ozergirl@yahoo.com for any questions
also check out the suboxone.com website
KL,
I agree with you, I wouldnt knock anyone for their method of getting clean, hey, if you had to run naked through a briar patch to do it, It would be cool.
My statement was made based on things I have heard from others that have used sub. (I have no first hand knowledge) Staying vigilant is something I think we all need to do, regardless if we used sub, briar patch method, or cold turkey.
Just my opinion, and I am happy for you.
Regards,
Tom
I agree with you, I wouldnt knock anyone for their method of getting clean, hey, if you had to run naked through a briar patch to do it, It would be cool.
My statement was made based on things I have heard from others that have used sub. (I have no first hand knowledge) Staying vigilant is something I think we all need to do, regardless if we used sub, briar patch method, or cold turkey.
Just my opinion, and I am happy for you.
Regards,
Tom
Thanks Tom,
All opinions are respected, and welcome! If running through a briar patch or over hot coals would have worked, I would have tried it as it probably would have worked much quicker!
All the best!
Kelly
All opinions are respected, and welcome! If running through a briar patch or over hot coals would have worked, I would have tried it as it probably would have worked much quicker!
All the best!
Kelly
Hi Kelly;
Way to go on getting clean! That is great news. One comment on the naltrexone...I take a 50 mg pill daily. It's my understanding that if I were to take an opiate pill while on naltrexone I wouldn't get sick, just feel nothing as it blocks the opiate receptors in the brain. If I wanted to start using again I'd have to stop the naltrexone for something like 3 days before I could feel any "high" from opiates, so it acts more as a psycholical barrier for me.
Now if you're an active user and then take naltrexone I understand that can send you into pretty serious withdrawals, that's why you need to wait for a few days after you quit opiates before you can start to take naltrexone.
At least that's my understanding. Regardless, it's just one of many tools I use to stay clean.
Congrats again to you!
Jim
Way to go on getting clean! That is great news. One comment on the naltrexone...I take a 50 mg pill daily. It's my understanding that if I were to take an opiate pill while on naltrexone I wouldn't get sick, just feel nothing as it blocks the opiate receptors in the brain. If I wanted to start using again I'd have to stop the naltrexone for something like 3 days before I could feel any "high" from opiates, so it acts more as a psycholical barrier for me.
Now if you're an active user and then take naltrexone I understand that can send you into pretty serious withdrawals, that's why you need to wait for a few days after you quit opiates before you can start to take naltrexone.
At least that's my understanding. Regardless, it's just one of many tools I use to stay clean.
Congrats again to you!
Jim
Chris...so awesome for you! Sounds like you're ready to start your new life now... so what about support now? What are your plans? That was the easy part...now comes the tough stuff....
Love
CG
Love
CG
Hi Kelly,
It is great to hear that you are off the sub and doing well.
I wish you nothing but the best...
I wanted to kinda jump in real quick and pick up on some of the stuff Jim said.....Naltrexone will just block the effect of any opiate used. But for anyone reading and on this drug if you push the limits looking for a high and use opiates while on it and to much you can OD. Even though you may not feel the opiates thay are still is in your system.
If you take naltrexone with opiates still in your system well that hell isn't real nice either and the withdrawals will be real severe and could last up to 48 hours....
Other than that it is a great tool that can be added to anyone road to recovery......
You take good care of yourself.....
Love,
Tina
It is great to hear that you are off the sub and doing well.
I wish you nothing but the best...
I wanted to kinda jump in real quick and pick up on some of the stuff Jim said.....Naltrexone will just block the effect of any opiate used. But for anyone reading and on this drug if you push the limits looking for a high and use opiates while on it and to much you can OD. Even though you may not feel the opiates thay are still is in your system.
If you take naltrexone with opiates still in your system well that hell isn't real nice either and the withdrawals will be real severe and could last up to 48 hours....
Other than that it is a great tool that can be added to anyone road to recovery......
You take good care of yourself.....
Love,
Tina
Congrats!!! You did it...you are now sitting where you wanted to be...so get some good support, and don't step backwards.
Kerry
Kerry
Hi Cowgirl,
No...now for me this is the easy part...the tough part was getting off (or should I say making the decision to be clean)
I really was just ready to end this bull**** and have about as much desire to use as I do to stick bamboo under my fingernails. The pills have lost their magic over me.
My other medications for Bipolar II have really kicked in and I truly believe alleviated every bit of craving I had. I crave pills now, but they are vitamins!! Adrenal capsules that John Dee turned me onto, Salt pills that help a lot with the weakness after quitting, Sublingual B complex vitamins, fish oil capsules, and other multivitamins. In some weird way, as long as I'm taking a pill, it's like it almost doesn't matter if it's a narcotic or a vitamin...I must mentally still feel the need to take a pill, but gladly they are all good ones!
All the best to you cowgirl!
No...now for me this is the easy part...the tough part was getting off (or should I say making the decision to be clean)
I really was just ready to end this bull**** and have about as much desire to use as I do to stick bamboo under my fingernails. The pills have lost their magic over me.
My other medications for Bipolar II have really kicked in and I truly believe alleviated every bit of craving I had. I crave pills now, but they are vitamins!! Adrenal capsules that John Dee turned me onto, Salt pills that help a lot with the weakness after quitting, Sublingual B complex vitamins, fish oil capsules, and other multivitamins. In some weird way, as long as I'm taking a pill, it's like it almost doesn't matter if it's a narcotic or a vitamin...I must mentally still feel the need to take a pill, but gladly they are all good ones!
All the best to you cowgirl!
Kerry - you are so right, I remember posting not to long ago when someone wrote they had 3 days clean and my reply was "I'd give anything to have 3 days clean"
At that point I honestly didn't see a way out and thought I'd be on the roller coaster for ever....what a turn my life has taken in just a few short weeks. I seriously wondered if I'd spend my 42nd bday in jail or in the hospital from an OD...but now I know I'll be spending it in Europe, celebrating with my spouse.
I have recently realized no high tastes as good as being clean feels!
At that point I honestly didn't see a way out and thought I'd be on the roller coaster for ever....what a turn my life has taken in just a few short weeks. I seriously wondered if I'd spend my 42nd bday in jail or in the hospital from an OD...but now I know I'll be spending it in Europe, celebrating with my spouse.
I have recently realized no high tastes as good as being clean feels!
Chris..it's wonderful that you feel this much resolve and think that you're never going to use again...problem with that is, you're already doing the "dry drunk" thing by taking other pills as a mental replacement for pain pills. Think about it.
This is life long for us, it doesn't get easier unless we deal with the mental anguish that started us using in the first place. If you don't get some sort of support and learn tools and skills to head off those triggers and bad feelings, you will most likely use again. It's just a sad fact of addiction.
I thought that once I went through the hell of cold turkey withdrawal (like a 100000) times, I would never use again and just go on my merry way... wrong. When life got tough or one of my kids did something stupid, or the dog puked on the carpet or some guy cut me off in traffic..... I used. I had no way of knowing how NOT to. Now I do. And now for the first time in 26 years, I have over a year of clean. That almost never happend before....
Yes. Getting clean is the easy part. Staying clean is the hardest thing you'll ever do. But it can be done and it doesn't have to be hard...
Take care,
Cowgirl
This is life long for us, it doesn't get easier unless we deal with the mental anguish that started us using in the first place. If you don't get some sort of support and learn tools and skills to head off those triggers and bad feelings, you will most likely use again. It's just a sad fact of addiction.
I thought that once I went through the hell of cold turkey withdrawal (like a 100000) times, I would never use again and just go on my merry way... wrong. When life got tough or one of my kids did something stupid, or the dog puked on the carpet or some guy cut me off in traffic..... I used. I had no way of knowing how NOT to. Now I do. And now for the first time in 26 years, I have over a year of clean. That almost never happend before....
Yes. Getting clean is the easy part. Staying clean is the hardest thing you'll ever do. But it can be done and it doesn't have to be hard...
Take care,
Cowgirl
Cowgirl,
It's Kelly, not Chris. I don't think you get it. I just am simply at the point in my life where it does absolutely nothing for me and I was ready to end it. Wouldn't go back over my dog puking, being cut off, etc. I now have other meds (AD) that assist me with the struggles which were the reason I used.
this is a prime example of how much of an individual thing recovery is and what works for me may be totally different from what works for others and vice versa.
It would be nice to see more people respect each others differences on this board.
I respect your opinion but I honestly don't see how you compare taking vitamins to narcotics...
It's Kelly, not Chris. I don't think you get it. I just am simply at the point in my life where it does absolutely nothing for me and I was ready to end it. Wouldn't go back over my dog puking, being cut off, etc. I now have other meds (AD) that assist me with the struggles which were the reason I used.
this is a prime example of how much of an individual thing recovery is and what works for me may be totally different from what works for others and vice versa.
It would be nice to see more people respect each others differences on this board.
I respect your opinion but I honestly don't see how you compare taking vitamins to narcotics...
I also disagree that being clean is lifelong struggle (for me). For me the life long part is my struggle with being BiPolar and now that I am being treated for that, I no longer use...I used narcotics to cope because I had not been diagnosed as being BiPolar and did not know any other way to comfort myself.
Now on the correct medications for bipolar disorder, narcotics dont even enter the picture.
Now on the correct medications for bipolar disorder, narcotics dont even enter the picture.
