Off Sub After 38 Days....success & Thanks Johndee!

You said:
" as long as I'm taking a pill, it's like it almost doesn't matter if it's a narcotic or a vitamin...I must mentally still feel the need to take a pill"


The key words being, I must mentally still feel the need to take a pill....

Sorry, that's what I picked up on.

You are very unique, Kelly (sorry, thought it was Chris for some dumb reason). Course we all think we're unique..., and if you can do this without ever needing help to stay clean and it is truly gone from your being, then hey, congrats. I'm really happy for you. Just know that you're not the norm and that 99% of addicts can not stay clean without help. It just doesn't leave your mind, body or soul.

I do appreciate the differences..very much so... I'm just a realist. And I never meant to offend. Didn't mean to make you so defensive.

Good luck to you....
and best wishes.

Cowgirl
Cowgirl,
You didn't offend. I don't mean to imply that I don't need help...The help I needed was for BiPolar disease (and in the short term, to get off the pills.) You see, I used because I was depressed and I was depressed because I used. Once I faced and treated my depression, the desire and need to use completely fell away. So for me, it is no longer a struggle to stay "clean", but rather my struggle will be to keep my bipolar disorder in check. Maybe in that respect I am different from others. My treatment for Bipolar disorder is what will keep me off pills...that is where I am getting the help.

I sometimes just grow weary of people on the boards preaching to others (who may be young and inexperienced enough to believe) that you won't have success unless you 12 step, intervention, etc. etc. and as I said my hope is that everyone finds what works for them and follows through and does not get swayed if they read something negative on the board about sub, going CT, not telling a spouse, or whatever.

I guess what I'm hoping is that people try to look beyond the pills and maybe deal with the reason they use...maybe if they can get treatment for that problem, like me, the pills just fall away.

You're right, getting to the bottom of the problem is the key... which is why I said, getting clean is the easy part, staying clean means hard work of figuring out why we use in the first place. Most need others like them, who understand what they are going through, hence this board and 12 step meetings or counselling or whatever... suboxone and cold turkey just gets you though the physical stuff, NA, AA, counseling etc, gets you through the mental crap. We can't do this alone and for most (but maybe not you) can't do it with another pill. Depressed? You bet I'm depressed. But mine is not bi-polar. Mine is a chemical mix up in my brain, but it's not cured by more drugs. It's helped with working a life program that includes not self medicating.

Newbies need to know that they can't do it alone and that you are not instantly cured by taking other meds. Everyone is different and you need as much information as possible. Hearing ALL stories is so important. As is yours.

Cowgirl
never claimed to do it alone or that my recovery was "instant".

And if I have a Bipolar disorder I don't see that as replacing one drug with another. If I was diagnosed with heart disease or high blood pressure I don't think you would say the same for the medication prescribed for that....this is no different.

My view is that newbies should not be swayed by a lot of stuff on this board, and they should make their own way, their own choices and do what works for them. When I needed help I came and read many posts and made my own decisions and solutions.
Most people come to this board because they are pretty desperate to get off of the merry go round of addiction. Usually, I would surmise, it is not their first attempt. I think most have been beat up pretty much with doing it on their own only to return to their DOC. We don't just start using drugs because life is grand. It is because most of us feel unworthy or have low self esteem, etc. I thought I used because of dpression, too. I was on anti-depressants but guess what? I don't need AD's anymore because I am not depressed. It was a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" Once I worked the steps I was able to deal with life because I now faced my biggest fears and had tools to cope with life. Nobody is saying anybody else's way is wrong. My depression was real, at that time. If you are unique and different, my hat is off to you. My father has been clean and sober for 25 years, he never went to a meeting in his life. He is not someone you would want to be around but hey it works for him. For me, it is about surrender and living life happy, joyous and free.

Rachel
Thanks Rach... our way doesn't work. Period.

Time will tell.....
I like you Kelly am bipolar .When I was first diagnosed I had a Dr. tell me that I could go to fourteen meetings a week and I would still end up self medicating if I did not take the proper medications to treat the bipolar disorder .She went on to say that I am still an addict and that for me to remain clean I would have to treat both problems .One disease may have brought me to the other but the fact of the matter is I am bipolar and an addict . I have to treat both problems , not just the bipolar one. I treat my bipolar disease with wellbutrin and I go to meetings for my addictions.It would take pages to write all I now know about bipolar disorders .It can be a very complex problem in that it takes so many different forms in different people but all I have to know is how it affects me.I can't begin to tell you how happy I am to hear they found the right meds for you on the first shot .I was a human test tube for almost a year and even now the DRS. monitor me on a regular basis .I hope this helps , Rob
Rob,
I went through years on meds for depression (prozac, wellbutrin, paxil, amytriptyline and many others) with no success....It was hell to never have something work for me. At one point in my life I had resigned myself to the fact that I would never be emotionally or mentally "well" and that for whatever reason (heridetary or environmental) that this was the way I was going to be. I believed that I was destined to continue on different trials of ADs, anxiety meds, sleeping pills - that would get me through the sadness each day brought. I never believed I could feel joy or happiness (even when there were events in my life that should have registered those emotions in me) That feeling of hopelessness, lack of self esteem and lethargy went away when, after knee surgery I started taking pills and discovered that I suddenly had a (false) sense of happiness/security - everything I had been lacking mentally and emotionally in my life up until that point.

When I initially went to the sub doctor, I never expected to be diagnosed and or treated as being bipolar. I never expected to be given mood stabilizers and to be told that the reason ADs never worked was because I was bipolar vs depressed. Although Lamactil and Seroquel were indeed the first meds prescribed for my bipolar disorder, and I was very fortunate that they worked quickly and very effectively, it has been a long road for me medication wise and not an overnight success by any means

I never realized there were vast differences between being bipolar vs.. depressed. (For instance my doctor explained that if I was depressed I would have never used drugs, that they would have just made me sick. His opinion is that people who abuse drugs are bipolar vs. depressed, and while I'm not sure that I agree with his theory - since I'm no MD who am I to say)

I truly feel that the medications I've been on for the past 6 weeks have given me back my life (and I don't necessarily mean the sub) I could have easily chosen to go CT again as my routine was to use for 3 weeks until my supply would run out and then go CT and through WDs. Instead this time, I chose to go the Sub route and just by chance came accross treatment for what I felt the real issues were.

My emotions are now completely stable (even no more PMS!) and I can go so far as to say I now am able to experience JOY - which I truly have not been able to experience for years. I know that some on the board may not agree when I say that I truly believe I used because I was depressed (or I guess technically, bipolar) and that now that I'm being treated for this and no longer suffer from the sadness, the anxiety, the mania....I'm happy and content and abusing drugs - well, I just don't have the desire at all any more. Drugs just don't have power over me anymore

Would I benefit from a 12 step or NA program at this point? Who knows...right now I'm happy and feel like I have dealt with the issues that caused me to use by gettin the correct diagnosis and medication, and also after many years of prior therapy. Maybe at some point I'll feel differently and want to explore those avenues.

Thanks for posting and please let me know if there is any literature that you found insightful on the subject of bipolar disease.

All the best.

Kelly
Hi KL- I just wanted to say thank you, that information was appreciated. I have a sister that was diagnosed as bipolar and we've all been having a really hard time with alot of things lately. She has been put on lamactil, and is having a hard time with it. I also have been diagnosed as depressed many times, and am starting to deal with alot of the issues that play into my addiction. So I just wanted to say thanks and have a great day!
Stardust,
What kind of trouble is she having on the Lamactil and what is her dosage? I started at 25 mg and went up about every week and now am stable at 200 mg daily. For many, it works very quickly (in the first week) vs. antidepressants that can take six weeks to get into your blood stream.

I suffered no adverse affects on Lamactil and felt better and better each time my dose was increased.

Is she taking any other meds? I take Seroquel which is an anti-pyschotic (sounds scary to me) but it is for sleep. I take 150 mg at night and I'm out like a light.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having troubles. Don't give up.
Kelly-She is taking 25mg, and she was supposed (key word) to up her dose after 2 weeks, but she will not do that. She is also on Abilify (anti-pshycotic) 15mg a day. She started the lamactil approx. 3 weeks ago, and from what I see her mood has stabilized significantly. She was extremely paranoid and dellusional about a week ago, but has come along way from that. She just doesn't want to accept the fact that these meds may be the only thing making her feel better. She really feels like she can just wean herself off and she will be fine, everyone else knows that is not the case after seeing her go off the meds previously. It is really hard, I totally understand her point of view, not wanting to be dependent on a medication to live normally (trust me from an addicts point of view I know first hand) but I know what will happen if she doesn't stay on them, and it is not pretty. Thanks for any advice in advance!
Kelly-also she is still extremely anxious all the time. Do you have any thoughts on that?
You are in a difficult spot, watching someone suffer when they don't have to. If she had heart disease or high blood pressure and had to take a pill every day would she feel differently? She has a disease that needs treatment/medication. I would hope that feeling better on the Lamactil would give her incentive to stay on it. I'm not sure, but I would bet that by going on and off she is ruining her body's ability to get benefit from the drug (at least that was what I was told with each trial of prozac I went on...that the next time I would get even less benefit from it)

As for the anxiety, I had it for about the first 2 weeks - one or two days of major irritability....my doctor told me to take 1/2 of a .25 mg seroquel as many times as I needed it for the anxiety - only it made me sleepy so instead I took 1/2 of a .25 mg Klonopin (tranquilizer) which helped. I haven't had any anxiety since those 2 days several weeks back.

I wish I could wave a magic wand for you....can you talk to her and get her to stay on her meds?
Hey Rob;

You describe exactly how I felt in the early 90's when I stopped drinking and was going to AA meetings regularly. I was also seeing a counselor, but until we put 2 and 2 together (with the help of a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with depression), and I got on a med that worked, I was so close to drinking again. I was miserable. For years I self-medicated with booze, and I'm certain it was to alleviate the depression. AA helped me stay stopped from drinking, the AD meds lifted the fog in my head, cleaned the windows to my eyes so to speak.

Fast forward a few years and all is well, I had no desire to drink, I got married, was busy...life was good! And I stopped going to meetings. Bad move for me. Then I stumbled upon pain meds after some dental surgery, and I was off and running. It has been a hellish ride, these pills are the devil's tic tacs. So while I need my AD drugs to treat my deprsssion, I also need meetings to treat my addictions. It's a combo I'm very happy with today.

We're all unique, and what works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. I get so much from the people I meet and share with at meetings. I'm learning how to cope with all of the issues I mangaed to avoid for years when abusing booze and drugs. AA and NA help to fill my soul, and keep me grounded in my daily activities.

Now I want to share my experience, strength and hope with others so that they can make their own recovery decisions. Whether someone chooses 12 step rooms or not doesn't matter to me. First and foremost I need to remember I'm doing this for me.

Take care;
Jim
Thanks for the advice Kelly. I have tried talking to her many times about it, but she is pretty insistent. She was the type of person that had extreme highs most of the time (as opposed to lows) so she has a hard time being stabilized and not the crazy fun-loving person she was before. She really feels a flat affect from the meds that she doesn't like. She also has a boyfriend that strongly believes that precription meds are not the answer which makes it so much more difficult to get through to her. I am so scared that once she leaves to go back to the state where she is going to get her masters in school, she will have another psychotic episode, and I cannot handle another one. She has had three of these in the past two months, and they are the hardest thing I think I have ever gone through (besides battling my own addiction). We can only get through to her so much before she is influenced by her boyfriend, and we cannot watch over her forever. It is just a very hard situation. Again thanks for your understanding and listening.
Stardust I am so sorry to hear of your sisters episodes and can't even imagine how scary that must be to witness. It almost sounds like she needs some sort of intervention. Her boyfriend sounds very controlling. It's so sad when you want to help but the person won't let you or won't help themself.

I feel no flat affect on the lamactil -just very even keeled. Maybe her dosage needs to be adjusted?

I'm sure it's just as scary for her to think that she could go through another psychotic episode, no? I don't know what happens during one - is she aware she is having one? Is she in danger of harming herself or others? Can you call her doctor and ask for help?

I feel for you and wish there was something I could do to help. Maybe there are others on this board who can offer some sound advice that could bring you real results. I feel quite helpless here....Gang?...
You are right about the intervention thing with her boyfriend. It is pretty scary that she is so controlled by this guy. Everybody is really weary of him, but we are all walking on eggshells because we don't want to lose her our relationship with her.

About the actual episodes she is not aware of what she is doing while she is doing it. The first time it happened was the worst. She was trying to run out into traffic and luckily she had called 911 herself and they ended up taking her the the ER. She has had 2 hospitalizations in psychatric wards since April. She does not understand the extent of how bad it gets when this happens. She blames the medication and stress that she has had for the way she is acting. I think she really has a chemical imbalance that needs a chemical correction, but she has a really hard time with that. She says that she is ok with being on the lamctil, but not with the anti-psychotic, and she will not increase the dose of lamactil as ordered. She has said many times that it is just a matter of time before she gets off, and that scares the heck out of me.

It is a horrible situation to not want to lose your sister and how close I am, but not feel like I am able to intervene for her well being without doing so. This is a total trial and error situation, no one really seems to know the concrete answer for why this is happening, or what to do about it. All I know is that she is fine now, on the meds, away from her boyfriend, and I just cannot handle a fourth time of this happening when she goes back to him.

Thanks for listening-that is enough even if you may not have all the answers.
Jim , thanks for the post .You essentially told my story. You would think we would get it after what we went through but man we seem to always feel like we can do it our way expecting different results .Well I know I was wrong again after twelve years ! Everthing that was working went out the window .I wish I could wave a wand and make us all better but these diseases just sit there and lurk waiting for us. Kelly , my shrink has written three books on bipolar disorder.I will not be seeing him for another six weeks but I have called him and left a message . As soon as he calls me back with the titles I will let you know .Rob
Can you call her doctor? Maybe not because of HIPPA but it is worth a try
I am almost positive they will not give out any information because even when she was in the hospital, and she had signed a waiver for my Mom to get info, they still would not say anything at all. I am pretty sure with all the HIPAA regulations we really wouldn't be able to get much if any info at all. Maybe I will try to talk her into signing a waiver for me to just talk to her therapist. Thanks for the suggestion.