Can you take anytime off? I know that's hard for most to do. Like Tim said, be patient with yourself, this too shall pass. I'm really rooting for you!
I have to comment about the meeting you went to a long time ago. You are repeating exactly my experience!!! When I went to meetings a long time ago, they were filled with young, male, street-drug users. I was a middle-aged mom who never was in jail or in trouble with the law, and I stuck out like a sore thumb.
When I went back this past spring, the meetings had far more women, and far more pillheads. I don't know whether this is good or bad (the abuse of pain meds is unbelievably skyrocketing in this country) but at least now I have found women to talk to and relate to. I hope you find this at a meeting near you.
When I went back this past spring, the meetings had far more women, and far more pillheads. I don't know whether this is good or bad (the abuse of pain meds is unbelievably skyrocketing in this country) but at least now I have found women to talk to and relate to. I hope you find this at a meeting near you.
The hardest question, the one I really needed to answer honestly for myself was this.
Did I want to quit using all drugs, or did I want the negative consequences to stop while retaining in some way the imagined positive effects of the drug.
For years I really NEEDED the bad stuff to stop, but I just could not let go of the deep deep rooted cry for the release drugs provided.
I tried every remedy there is. But I kept using eventually.
Then little by little all the information I had gathered over the decades started to come together for me.
I do believe that at some point we must say. I give up, I give up not only the horrible consequences but all the pleasure that comes from using.
It is saying goodbye to the pleasure (escape) where I have lost so many friends. They just could not say good-bye.
I discovered there is a reason why you can't say goodbye to the pleasure side of using. Because in your brain lies the pleasure center, it's there, it will never go away. It is needed for your survival. It allows you to breath, seek food, shelter, sex.
It is primal, it does not understand moral choice, God, love, time, responsibility, health. It works to feel pleasure. Period. Always has, Always will.
Well when I was about 12 and developing from a kid whose every need was met by others, to someone responsible for meeting his own needs. I was also discovering substances , which took away the fear, pain, hurt, confusion, loneliness and insecurities life is all about.
This discovery was really me giving control of my brain to the pleasure center, and the more I fed it, the more it grew. To eventually it controlled my every action, my every thought.
So I have learned that in me lies this BEAST, it wants to be fed, at all costs. It can not understand, or taper, it just can't. IT MUST AND IT WILL.USE.
O.K. so here I was in quite a spot, I discovered I had only 1 real enemy. ME.
Not the cops, the P.O. my spouse, the kids, the bill collectors, Mom, Dad, In Laws, Using buddies, dopeman and Drs.. Employers, The Church. The Meetings, Add whoever else I thought was out to get me.
Nope the thing killing me was my own mind. Period.
Well one day, this guy says, make a fist. So I do. Then he says tell your addict mind to open it. Say addict mind open this fist. Nothing. Then he says tell Joe to open the fist. So I say Joe Open the fist. and Bam!! the fist opened up.
So he says, as you can see, the addict mind needs Joe's cooperation to use.
He says now say Joe and addict mind open the fist, it opens.
So he says, you addict mind is ANY thought, feeling, emotion, that says it is OK to use a drug.
For me It is not OK to use a drug
My addict mind has a voice, it tells Joe it needs it, it will do unspeakable things and place me in unreal situations which make dope seem like the only option.
DOPE IS NEVER THE ONLY OPTION..
Joe controls the addict mind. It does what Joe says. I just had reversed the roles.
I must hear my addict voice, recognize it and ignore it.
Tell yourself you will never use again. Ever no matter what. Then listen to what your mind tells you, hear that voice, that's the addict mind. Get to know it. If you really stop, it will start screaming.
Once you can say goodbye to the pleasure, the grieving process can begin.
That's what the support part of journey is needed for. For the wonderful, joyous, indescribable journey that awaits you. We are here, We need You, God Needs You.
Go ahead make a fist.
Happy Holidays.
.
Did I want to quit using all drugs, or did I want the negative consequences to stop while retaining in some way the imagined positive effects of the drug.
For years I really NEEDED the bad stuff to stop, but I just could not let go of the deep deep rooted cry for the release drugs provided.
I tried every remedy there is. But I kept using eventually.
Then little by little all the information I had gathered over the decades started to come together for me.
I do believe that at some point we must say. I give up, I give up not only the horrible consequences but all the pleasure that comes from using.
It is saying goodbye to the pleasure (escape) where I have lost so many friends. They just could not say good-bye.
I discovered there is a reason why you can't say goodbye to the pleasure side of using. Because in your brain lies the pleasure center, it's there, it will never go away. It is needed for your survival. It allows you to breath, seek food, shelter, sex.
It is primal, it does not understand moral choice, God, love, time, responsibility, health. It works to feel pleasure. Period. Always has, Always will.
Well when I was about 12 and developing from a kid whose every need was met by others, to someone responsible for meeting his own needs. I was also discovering substances , which took away the fear, pain, hurt, confusion, loneliness and insecurities life is all about.
This discovery was really me giving control of my brain to the pleasure center, and the more I fed it, the more it grew. To eventually it controlled my every action, my every thought.
So I have learned that in me lies this BEAST, it wants to be fed, at all costs. It can not understand, or taper, it just can't. IT MUST AND IT WILL.USE.
O.K. so here I was in quite a spot, I discovered I had only 1 real enemy. ME.
Not the cops, the P.O. my spouse, the kids, the bill collectors, Mom, Dad, In Laws, Using buddies, dopeman and Drs.. Employers, The Church. The Meetings, Add whoever else I thought was out to get me.
Nope the thing killing me was my own mind. Period.
Well one day, this guy says, make a fist. So I do. Then he says tell your addict mind to open it. Say addict mind open this fist. Nothing. Then he says tell Joe to open the fist. So I say Joe Open the fist. and Bam!! the fist opened up.
So he says, as you can see, the addict mind needs Joe's cooperation to use.
He says now say Joe and addict mind open the fist, it opens.
So he says, you addict mind is ANY thought, feeling, emotion, that says it is OK to use a drug.
For me It is not OK to use a drug
My addict mind has a voice, it tells Joe it needs it, it will do unspeakable things and place me in unreal situations which make dope seem like the only option.
DOPE IS NEVER THE ONLY OPTION..
Joe controls the addict mind. It does what Joe says. I just had reversed the roles.
I must hear my addict voice, recognize it and ignore it.
Tell yourself you will never use again. Ever no matter what. Then listen to what your mind tells you, hear that voice, that's the addict mind. Get to know it. If you really stop, it will start screaming.
Once you can say goodbye to the pleasure, the grieving process can begin.
That's what the support part of journey is needed for. For the wonderful, joyous, indescribable journey that awaits you. We are here, We need You, God Needs You.
Go ahead make a fist.
Happy Holidays.
.
Wow. I can't believe that all of you who don't even know me took the time to post. I have tears in my eyes, and there's a big part of me that really,really doesn't want to let you down.
I did go to the meeting yesterday; it was a CAIRing Grace meeting; next monday I'm going to a regular CAIR meeting, which is not Christian per se (I am not a christian; I hope that doesn't offend anyone here; just part of my little foray into complete honesty!). I may try an NA meeting tonight to keep the ball rolling.
And no, I cannot take any more time off work; used that up last summer when I went bonkers after quitting like 20-25 norco10's a day cold turkey. And yeah, I get that tapering is not always an option for everyone. If one is good, two is better, right? And while you're at it, you've done so well you might as well toss back another 3 or 4 to reward yourself! Yep, that's me. So no taper.
I've had one pill each day since the initial 72 hours were over. I'm scared to death of the deep depression setting in- like I was suicidal before. But...wow! Another excuse to keep using!
You are all right. That's it.No more. If I get depressed, I will go to my doctor. But I am going on that walk with my dogs today. Get those natural endorphins pumping!
If you see a crazy woman running through the foothills of Oakdale with 2 big dogs in tow, that would be me. Trying to outrace my demons.
I did go to the meeting yesterday; it was a CAIRing Grace meeting; next monday I'm going to a regular CAIR meeting, which is not Christian per se (I am not a christian; I hope that doesn't offend anyone here; just part of my little foray into complete honesty!). I may try an NA meeting tonight to keep the ball rolling.
And no, I cannot take any more time off work; used that up last summer when I went bonkers after quitting like 20-25 norco10's a day cold turkey. And yeah, I get that tapering is not always an option for everyone. If one is good, two is better, right? And while you're at it, you've done so well you might as well toss back another 3 or 4 to reward yourself! Yep, that's me. So no taper.
I've had one pill each day since the initial 72 hours were over. I'm scared to death of the deep depression setting in- like I was suicidal before. But...wow! Another excuse to keep using!
You are all right. That's it.No more. If I get depressed, I will go to my doctor. But I am going on that walk with my dogs today. Get those natural endorphins pumping!
If you see a crazy woman running through the foothills of Oakdale with 2 big dogs in tow, that would be me. Trying to outrace my demons.
Whatever pills you have left, flush em. Now. You will continue to allow yourself to take "just one" every day until suddenly, it will be "just 2 today". Get rid of them. If you have refills, call your pharmacy and cancel them. Call your dr and tell on yourself. It will be the most empowering thing you have ever done. You don't have the luxury of ever taking a painpill again without massive safety nets below you.
You are NOT going to feel good for awhile. It's just the way it is. But it won't last forever and the longer you keep taking the 1 pill a day, the longer you are putting this off. It is scary and I totally understand and get where your coming from, we've all been there but unless you do something to save your life today, you may be in bigger trouble tomorrow.
This is why I tell people to tell thier drs. Drs can help you through the worst of the withdrawals and PAWS. There are OTC meds as well as prescribed that aren't narcotic that can make you more comfortable especially if you have to work and can't just stay home and suck it up.
You are NOT going to feel good for awhile. It's just the way it is. But it won't last forever and the longer you keep taking the 1 pill a day, the longer you are putting this off. It is scary and I totally understand and get where your coming from, we've all been there but unless you do something to save your life today, you may be in bigger trouble tomorrow.
This is why I tell people to tell thier drs. Drs can help you through the worst of the withdrawals and PAWS. There are OTC meds as well as prescribed that aren't narcotic that can make you more comfortable especially if you have to work and can't just stay home and suck it up.
Lisa says it well....good to see you got out to a meeting, now try another...
If you see a crazy woman running through the foothills of Oakdale with 2 big dogs in tow, that would be me. Trying to outrace my demons.
I'm not that far from you, I work in Sacramento, live in Lincoln. I do know there are a lot of meetings in Modesto area so keep trying until you find one that you like....
Welcome to this site, it was very instrumental to my recovery, people like Lisa helped in that first year so much, I did what they suggested and I stayed clean & that's a miracle.
After the detox and you're through with the withdrawls, when you physically start to feel better, that's when it was suggested I start working on the emotional & spiritual side so I could stay stopped and I found that in the 12steps.
xoxo
Stacey
If you see a crazy woman running through the foothills of Oakdale with 2 big dogs in tow, that would be me. Trying to outrace my demons.
I'm not that far from you, I work in Sacramento, live in Lincoln. I do know there are a lot of meetings in Modesto area so keep trying until you find one that you like....
Welcome to this site, it was very instrumental to my recovery, people like Lisa helped in that first year so much, I did what they suggested and I stayed clean & that's a miracle.
After the detox and you're through with the withdrawls, when you physically start to feel better, that's when it was suggested I start working on the emotional & spiritual side so I could stay stopped and I found that in the 12steps.
xoxo
Stacey
Stacey wrote:
Lisa says it well....good to see you got out to a meeting, now try another...
Did I say that? lol, no wasn't me but I SHOULD have said that.
Lisa says it well....good to see you got out to a meeting, now try another...
Did I say that? lol, no wasn't me but I SHOULD have said that.
I made it to work today- literally dragged my butt all the way through a 12 hour shift. I seriously cannot believe how tired I am without pills!
I'm going to an NA meeting tomorrow, but to bed right now.
How long does the total fatigue take to go away?
I'm going to an NA meeting tomorrow, but to bed right now.
How long does the total fatigue take to go away?
It's different for everybody. I've heard of people feeling better after a month...two months. It stayed with me for a VERY long time. (This was after my second relaspe) I still had zero energy at 5 months , but I don't think that is very common. I had quit cold turkey that time as well.
Hang in there!
Hang in there!
Detox is tough. I sure remember how I felt.It does get better with time.Something we addicts aren't very good with at first.It's that old instant gratification thing we have.
There are what's called 'comfort meds' that do help many get through the worst part of detox.
But this leads to what I wanted to mention.Honesty.No recovery plan is going to work without honesty as it's major component.
That means getting honest w/ your SO,your physician(who could help if he was honestly apprised of the situation you're in).Why are you lying to your counselor?They're bound by confidentiality laws.Lying will only lead to relapse.
I was great at excuses of what I didn't want to do.Most addicts are.It's an ego thing. When I realized that I had to humble myself,put ego aside and become 'teachable' recognizing that my way wasn't working and to try a different way.Beginning with rigorous honesty the rest follows.
I found meetings helpful but also recognized since the drugs were the symptom,I was the problem,put myself in counseling.I needed to learn coping strategies,refusal skills,what were aspects of denial that had kept me stuck.(example;rationalization,justification,minimizing things,excuses not to do the next right thing etc.)
Basically communicating honestly with my self and others.
Knowing addiction encompasses not only the physical but the emotional ,psychological and spiritual,using and/or finding help in all areas is essential.We can't do it alone.Don't limit yourself.
It was the voice in our heads that got us in trouble in the first place.Making it also essential to put our issues out in the open honestly and address them .
Sometimes we feel fear or anxiety at the very thought of being honest about our problem,but usually find just what we need and relief from carrying the burden alone.Honesty is just so freeing.
Keep on towards your goal because it does get better.
There are what's called 'comfort meds' that do help many get through the worst part of detox.
But this leads to what I wanted to mention.Honesty.No recovery plan is going to work without honesty as it's major component.
That means getting honest w/ your SO,your physician(who could help if he was honestly apprised of the situation you're in).Why are you lying to your counselor?They're bound by confidentiality laws.Lying will only lead to relapse.
I was great at excuses of what I didn't want to do.Most addicts are.It's an ego thing. When I realized that I had to humble myself,put ego aside and become 'teachable' recognizing that my way wasn't working and to try a different way.Beginning with rigorous honesty the rest follows.
I found meetings helpful but also recognized since the drugs were the symptom,I was the problem,put myself in counseling.I needed to learn coping strategies,refusal skills,what were aspects of denial that had kept me stuck.(example;rationalization,justification,minimizing things,excuses not to do the next right thing etc.)
Basically communicating honestly with my self and others.
Knowing addiction encompasses not only the physical but the emotional ,psychological and spiritual,using and/or finding help in all areas is essential.We can't do it alone.Don't limit yourself.
It was the voice in our heads that got us in trouble in the first place.Making it also essential to put our issues out in the open honestly and address them .
Sometimes we feel fear or anxiety at the very thought of being honest about our problem,but usually find just what we need and relief from carrying the burden alone.Honesty is just so freeing.
Keep on towards your goal because it does get better.
I tried to post last night, but my posting's not here so I guess I had a computer glitch.
Managed to get into work yesterday, and made it through another 12 hour shift; took most of my willpower to do it.
I am happy to say I made it to an NA meeting on Friday, and felt some definite positive energy; will continue working with that group. I bought the main NA book, and the Just For today book.
And I'm sorry to say I'm still not clean. Trying, truly. My biggest roadblock it seems is the horrible acute w/d symptoms AND the horrible post-acute w/d symptoms that I think many otherwise excellent physicians poorly understand.
I AM tapering, and I have taper plan that will have me clean by December 28th; so far my willpower in that area has been standing me in good stead. I truly admire the people that can just stop using and still keep functioning; I learned last July that I am not one of them. I came clean at that time with my primary care doc, and also called my pain management doc and told him I became addicted and had them place a note in my file stating to never give me an Rx again. My primary care doc wanted me to taper, but I thought,"oh, I just want to be done with it!" so just quit. Many of you will understand what I say when I say I wanted to die. I even had a plan for that, because I was hopeless of ever feeling better and felt like such a loser. With the support of my husband, my primary care dr, and my counselor, I pulled through, and of course because I wasn't in recovery and was just dry, I relapsed.
So, this may sound like a rationalization for not quitting cold turkey; may be it is. I'm becoming more honest in increments; and I'm still trying to "shelter" my husband from the reality of my problem; he's under tons of stress in other areas. And as I read the above statement about sheltering him, I can clearly see it is a load of crap, but there it is!
Thus far I've stuck to my taper plan; today I'm down to 2, and will stay on that for 6 days, then 1, then a half, then none. I'm hoping this will lessen the w/d, the depression, and the zero energy, keeping me at work. I have no more sick time, and I will be written up if I miss more work. I'm fortunate to have a good job in this economy, and want to keep it!
I may get in to see my dr about an antidepressant; has anyone here found that helped in the post-acute phase?
I don't have a script for my stuff. You can always find what you're looking for, if you know what I mean. I am now looking for sobriety and health. Hope I find it.
Managed to get into work yesterday, and made it through another 12 hour shift; took most of my willpower to do it.
I am happy to say I made it to an NA meeting on Friday, and felt some definite positive energy; will continue working with that group. I bought the main NA book, and the Just For today book.
And I'm sorry to say I'm still not clean. Trying, truly. My biggest roadblock it seems is the horrible acute w/d symptoms AND the horrible post-acute w/d symptoms that I think many otherwise excellent physicians poorly understand.
I AM tapering, and I have taper plan that will have me clean by December 28th; so far my willpower in that area has been standing me in good stead. I truly admire the people that can just stop using and still keep functioning; I learned last July that I am not one of them. I came clean at that time with my primary care doc, and also called my pain management doc and told him I became addicted and had them place a note in my file stating to never give me an Rx again. My primary care doc wanted me to taper, but I thought,"oh, I just want to be done with it!" so just quit. Many of you will understand what I say when I say I wanted to die. I even had a plan for that, because I was hopeless of ever feeling better and felt like such a loser. With the support of my husband, my primary care dr, and my counselor, I pulled through, and of course because I wasn't in recovery and was just dry, I relapsed.
So, this may sound like a rationalization for not quitting cold turkey; may be it is. I'm becoming more honest in increments; and I'm still trying to "shelter" my husband from the reality of my problem; he's under tons of stress in other areas. And as I read the above statement about sheltering him, I can clearly see it is a load of crap, but there it is!
Thus far I've stuck to my taper plan; today I'm down to 2, and will stay on that for 6 days, then 1, then a half, then none. I'm hoping this will lessen the w/d, the depression, and the zero energy, keeping me at work. I have no more sick time, and I will be written up if I miss more work. I'm fortunate to have a good job in this economy, and want to keep it!
I may get in to see my dr about an antidepressant; has anyone here found that helped in the post-acute phase?
I don't have a script for my stuff. You can always find what you're looking for, if you know what I mean. I am now looking for sobriety and health. Hope I find it.
Hey, I just wanted to add that I finally got a chance to read Tim's post about the brain on opiates. The explanation was similar to one I found in a book by Dr. Eric Gracer, can't remember the name of it, but it too had great metaphors re: the addicted brain. Problem was, the book sort of read like a giant infomercial for his particular treatment program, so don't think it will get much critical acclaim.
Anyways, I remember last summer after getting clean, and I was so depressed because of course I wasn't in recovery. I went throught the drive-thru at McDonalds and ordered a caramel-nut sundae. Wow! I really got a nice squirt of dopamine off that puppy! Who woulda thunk it? So I totally get that we need to eat healthy to recover, but also I gained an important insight: when I'm high on opiates all the time, I become less sensitive to other positive stimuli,such as good food, good music, great sex, a hug from my loved ones.
One more reason to get and stay clean. That was a great post, Tim. Thanks.
Anyways, I remember last summer after getting clean, and I was so depressed because of course I wasn't in recovery. I went throught the drive-thru at McDonalds and ordered a caramel-nut sundae. Wow! I really got a nice squirt of dopamine off that puppy! Who woulda thunk it? So I totally get that we need to eat healthy to recover, but also I gained an important insight: when I'm high on opiates all the time, I become less sensitive to other positive stimuli,such as good food, good music, great sex, a hug from my loved ones.
One more reason to get and stay clean. That was a great post, Tim. Thanks.
Everybody's different. Tapering didn't work for me, just prolonged the enivitable. But maybe it will work for you. You won't know unless you try.
If it doesn't work then you'll know what you have to do. Simple as that.
We can come up with so many excuses as to why we can't or won't quit, how we quit and what to do after we quit....all comes down to one thing.
Unless you are willing and admit that you are powerless over this disease, you cannot win.
If it doesn't work then you'll know what you have to do. Simple as that.
We can come up with so many excuses as to why we can't or won't quit, how we quit and what to do after we quit....all comes down to one thing.
Unless you are willing and admit that you are powerless over this disease, you cannot win.
Cowgirl, you are so right! I have admitted I am powerless over this disease, and I'm not sure tapering is going to work for me either. So far it's been almost 2 weeks of feeling s***ty and in constant mild withdrawals, but I Have been able to make it to work, so maybe it is working. I've been to several meetings, and am working on my first step, but really can't claim that until 'm clean.
On my way to my dr. right now to see about an anti-depressant and something non-addictive to help with my pain; I do appreciate your input and it makes me feel not so quite alone, as do the meetings.
Gotta go!
On my way to my dr. right now to see about an anti-depressant and something non-addictive to help with my pain; I do appreciate your input and it makes me feel not so quite alone, as do the meetings.
Gotta go!
Everytime you take a pain pill, you start the withdrawal process all over again. Our bodies crave it and if you feed it, it rears it's ugly head. Stop feeding it.
I hope the dr can help you.
And good for you for showing up to the meetings. Alot of it isn't going to sink in right away but you fake it till you make it.
I hope the dr can help you.
And good for you for showing up to the meetings. Alot of it isn't going to sink in right away but you fake it till you make it.
