One of the most difficult things I find about being sober is I have to face within myself the things I did when I was drinking.I can't drink away the terrible things I have done and it consumes me with guilt and remorse. I'm beginning to believe that every bad thing that comes my way I deserve as some sort of punishment.I feel I have NO RIGHT to expect changes in the behavior of others just because I sobered up when I was so much worse.Why should I expect or deserve anything?I just want to escape it all.
Hi Pirate,
I agree, it's definatley one of the toughest challenges, but worth it - it's like a cleansing process. I did some terrible things when I was in active addiction. I will never be proud of them but I have learnt to forgive myself. I was very sick and deluded. I couldn't of expected myself to act like some sort of saint if my mind was in so much torture and turmoil. These terrible things we do stem from our pain. I don't think we intentionally hurt people. It happens as a result of our sickness. We have all done things we wish we hadn't.
You mention that you can't drink those things away now. You don't actually drink them away, you drink to forget them but those things stay inside and eat away at you until you face them.
I truly do empathise. Like I have said, I had to face the the very worst things I did when I was drinking recently. It was awful. But now I don't need to protect those secrets anymore. I don't need to keep up the big wall of armour so that nobody finds out the darkness in my soul. I don't have to pressure myself to achieve certain things because I feel they will make up for my perceived evil. I can just finally let them go. I hope you can do this too. You are not alone in this.
I agree, it's definatley one of the toughest challenges, but worth it - it's like a cleansing process. I did some terrible things when I was in active addiction. I will never be proud of them but I have learnt to forgive myself. I was very sick and deluded. I couldn't of expected myself to act like some sort of saint if my mind was in so much torture and turmoil. These terrible things we do stem from our pain. I don't think we intentionally hurt people. It happens as a result of our sickness. We have all done things we wish we hadn't.
You mention that you can't drink those things away now. You don't actually drink them away, you drink to forget them but those things stay inside and eat away at you until you face them.
I truly do empathise. Like I have said, I had to face the the very worst things I did when I was drinking recently. It was awful. But now I don't need to protect those secrets anymore. I don't need to keep up the big wall of armour so that nobody finds out the darkness in my soul. I don't have to pressure myself to achieve certain things because I feel they will make up for my perceived evil. I can just finally let them go. I hope you can do this too. You are not alone in this.
Gidday Pirate
Alcohol addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful it also is doing a powerplay on your recovery at the moment.
It wants you to feel the guilt and pain etc and it wants you to drink.....check out a meeting and share exactly what is happening for you or keep posting as you need to clear the ping pong balls in your head as they are doing double time.
There is always going to be debris from the past and as long as you arent adding to it by drinking things are cool.
All you have to do is stay sober and time will do the rest as long as you provide the leg work in your recovery
How much of what is going on in your head is the same scenario thinking that triggered a drink?
Pause clear the mind and step forward with gratitude for being sober and the rest is a bonus
light and love Zac
Alcohol addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful it also is doing a powerplay on your recovery at the moment.
It wants you to feel the guilt and pain etc and it wants you to drink.....check out a meeting and share exactly what is happening for you or keep posting as you need to clear the ping pong balls in your head as they are doing double time.
There is always going to be debris from the past and as long as you arent adding to it by drinking things are cool.
All you have to do is stay sober and time will do the rest as long as you provide the leg work in your recovery
How much of what is going on in your head is the same scenario thinking that triggered a drink?
Pause clear the mind and step forward with gratitude for being sober and the rest is a bonus
light and love Zac
Oh God! things are so bad. My marriage of 26 years and the relationship with my husband that started 34 years ago is ending and I am the one that is ending it.I can't live with him sober I just can't.
Zac a lot of my thinking now is the same type of thinking that used to cause me to drink. There is no woman sponsor for me to go to. There are only 4 sponsors available in the region where I live who are all men and that is not even in the same town as me. I have my friends and the mental health nurse here who I go to for support. I am sick with fear I mean literally sick.Any advice and support from anyone on here will be appreciated. I feel like I am dying.
Gidday Pirate
Pause when agitated and instead of feeling the fear aand allowing it to encompass you, look behind the fear, break it down into all the other bits and pieces that are making it feel so big
Decisions are made and lifes change and at the moment part of you is happy being with the devil you know and that part is talking to the part that is scared about going it alone
Now break the above down you are not happy with the devil you know etc or else you wouldnt be thinking of leaving, you are just used to the partnership and dependance that you both have/had for each other...small steps and you can survive as your own person
secondly you will not be alone there will be people there to help and support you in what you do, just trust and have faith in what you are deciding
Giving up drinking is the easy bit, sorting out the issues that were drunk over is the hard part because alcohol can not be hidden behind anymore, thank god
Pirate get to some meetings and talk/ring/post to anyone and everyone so that the turmoil doesnt stay in your head
light and love Zac
Edited to say think of all the times you have been fearfull and then done what you were fearing, usually what the fear represents in my head is 80% worse and once i actually trust, accept and pray then go and do what i was so scared of doing the result is beautifly simple because the fear no longer has a hold on my mind and with that weight lifted reality is a lot easier to handle
light and love Zac
Pause when agitated and instead of feeling the fear aand allowing it to encompass you, look behind the fear, break it down into all the other bits and pieces that are making it feel so big
Decisions are made and lifes change and at the moment part of you is happy being with the devil you know and that part is talking to the part that is scared about going it alone
Now break the above down you are not happy with the devil you know etc or else you wouldnt be thinking of leaving, you are just used to the partnership and dependance that you both have/had for each other...small steps and you can survive as your own person
secondly you will not be alone there will be people there to help and support you in what you do, just trust and have faith in what you are deciding
Giving up drinking is the easy bit, sorting out the issues that were drunk over is the hard part because alcohol can not be hidden behind anymore, thank god
Pirate get to some meetings and talk/ring/post to anyone and everyone so that the turmoil doesnt stay in your head
light and love Zac
Edited to say think of all the times you have been fearfull and then done what you were fearing, usually what the fear represents in my head is 80% worse and once i actually trust, accept and pray then go and do what i was so scared of doing the result is beautifly simple because the fear no longer has a hold on my mind and with that weight lifted reality is a lot easier to handle
light and love Zac
Pirate.........Man,are you right.Who wants to look at their past behavior?
We write these resentments and past indiscretions down on paper.We review it with a sponsor[Steps 4 and 5]
Then we become ready to get rid of all this s*** [Step 6] and get on our knees and ask God to remove our shortcomings[Step 7]
We make another list of all persons we had harmed and make direct amends wherever possible,except when to do so would injure them or others
[Step 8 and 9]
It's called cleaning house and may take a lifetime.I still have amends to make and as long as I'm willing and follow through nothing I've done while high can become my Nemesis.
I use to rip off the Nursery I have an account with.I've stolen on more than one occasion which I'm not proud of.I can't go back and fix all of it but I sure as hell can stop the behavior.Certain people I have harmed I have made direct amends to.Some have been receptive,others not.My goal was not their absolution.
My goal was to correct a wrong I had made regardless of their part in it.
You have to start somewhere.My suggestion is to ask your Higher Power for guidance.
We write these resentments and past indiscretions down on paper.We review it with a sponsor[Steps 4 and 5]
Then we become ready to get rid of all this s*** [Step 6] and get on our knees and ask God to remove our shortcomings[Step 7]
We make another list of all persons we had harmed and make direct amends wherever possible,except when to do so would injure them or others
[Step 8 and 9]
It's called cleaning house and may take a lifetime.I still have amends to make and as long as I'm willing and follow through nothing I've done while high can become my Nemesis.
I use to rip off the Nursery I have an account with.I've stolen on more than one occasion which I'm not proud of.I can't go back and fix all of it but I sure as hell can stop the behavior.Certain people I have harmed I have made direct amends to.Some have been receptive,others not.My goal was not their absolution.
My goal was to correct a wrong I had made regardless of their part in it.
You have to start somewhere.My suggestion is to ask your Higher Power for guidance.
I know I am posting a lot. Please bear with me. As long as someone can post to me and give me something to hang on to I have to keep posting. It's like I am standing on the edge of a cliff about to jump. The fear is so great. I get it under control for a bit and then it comes back. I have asked myself why then I ask why not me? Who am I? God it hurts so dam much. I have prayed for guidance as Tim said. I have done that for days. At times I feel some sort of peace cause I am letting God take care of it. then I take it all back again. I have never been this afraid before in my life. I know I must sound like a sicko or something. For every positive thought I get there are ten more negative ones that come behind it. Why can't I have some backbone instead of being slobbering scared old fool?
I am not a slobbering old fool. Dam it I am putting these negative thoughts out of my head. I am getting my a** away from this computer and going to go and do something constructive instead of wallowing in misery. Whatever I've done.whatever I was I am trying to be somebody now. not anyone else I am trying to be me. And if that is a problem with some people who I am close to well that is just too bad. I am rising from the ashes and I be dammed if I am going to let another log be put on the fire that is trying to consume me. I am fighting this with every ounce of strength I have in me. I am a worthy person. I am not a bad person. I have done bad things but I am not bad. My spirit is good if it can be set free. And I am not letting another persons addiction and denial and blaming ruin my chance at recovery. There got that out of my system.
Pirate, I do think you are too harsh on yourself. You are doing the best you can with the tools you have. You can't do any more than that.
I am so sorry to hear your relationship is breaking down. I don't know anything about your husband but I do know that I had a relationship - it was only a few years duration, nothing compared to yours, but when I sobered up the relationship fell apart. It couldn't work with me being sober so I had to let it go. It's an awful thing to face. I can't imagine how you are feeling with this happening with such a long marriage.
Post as much as you need to, it really does help.
I am thinking of you.
I am so sorry to hear your relationship is breaking down. I don't know anything about your husband but I do know that I had a relationship - it was only a few years duration, nothing compared to yours, but when I sobered up the relationship fell apart. It couldn't work with me being sober so I had to let it go. It's an awful thing to face. I can't imagine how you are feeling with this happening with such a long marriage.
Post as much as you need to, it really does help.
I am thinking of you.
thank you lacey. Yeah it is very hard. but.......... I got myself dressed and went to the grocery store and bought junk food and went and visited with a friend. I don't know if you remember about my bean collection. well anyway I used to put a bean in a jar every day that I didnt drink. Today I threw those beans away. I am not gonna keep track anymore of days that I don't drink. drinking is no longer a part of my life so I don't have to prove to myself how many days I have sober. No use in counting because I dont intend to drink any more so............ I am kinda pissed at my mom cause even though I am 51 years old she can make me feel like a kid. I have had a lot of guilt issues because of my upbringing. I am not saying she did a bad job she was a good mother but ruled me with making me feel guilty. Counselling have helped a lot with that. Anyhow I am rambling here . when I told her I am leaving my husband she said" you are going to kill your mother Marie" . I said to her why would you want me to live a life of misery and for me to be unhappy. I told her it has nothing to do with her. I told her I would not want any of my children to be in a relationship if they weren't happy. She is old now if she should die by some chance I am sure I will think I will be the cause of it. I hate the God dam guilt that gets imposed on me. I thought it was awful to say that to me when she knows how much I am struggling.I am angry that with the biggest decision of my life she would make me feel guilty like that. I have enough guilt to deal with as it is. I realize she is from a generation that stuck by their men no matter what but hell I'm in the picture too. I count for something. Anyway another ramble done. Thanks for the support. Just being able to get on the board to vent helps.
Dear Pirate,
Our choices and behaviors often come back to haunt us in life. You can call it Karma, or reaping the seed we've sown. I agree that you don't have a right to expect other people to change for you. They need to change because they want to for themselves.
When you were still deep and active in your addiction, you were in denial. No one could yell at you and say stop this, you are hurting me. You need to change, or else. Only you could make this choice, when you were ready. So, how can you expect it of someone else who is in denial about their addiction?
Some people never are ready, they die with it. Fortunately, you aren't going to be one of them. Most people don't enjoy feeling pain, so it's natural to want to escape. Life is full of pain, hurts and disappointments. But, there is also joy, peace and laughter. Now that you are sober you are feeling your pain and that of someone else that you are close to. As hard as it is feel it and let your hp...God walk through it with you.
I don't think most people wake up and their plan for the day is to go and hurt people. People that hurt others, do it because they are hurting inside themselves. I explained to you in a private e-mail that this person has a whole inside of them that they are filling up with their addiction to feel better, because they are hurting.
So many of us are carrying painful baggage inside us from our pasts. They don't fully know what they are doing. Neither did I at one time. Understanding this truth, I'm able to forgive them and myself. When I realized and accepted this truth I was free to let my much of my own baggage go. Yes, sometimes I wander back there, but I don't stay. I know they were and still may be just sick and hurting people, that they also had and still have painful baggage inside. Like me. No better, no worse.
It doesn't mean that I deserve it. But they didn't deserve it either. It is cycled from one generation to another. I do deserve to become healthy and reasonably happy. So does that other person. But, it's not up to me to tell them when they are ready. For when I judge others it brings shame, guilt and pain. I understand because I also have been judged by others, it hurts. When I understand and accept this I can break the he did, she did, your worse then me. Remember we all have experienced pain and it adds to it when we judge others.
We can help them by not judging them and guiding them towards the truth and the light. We can share our stories with them about our own pain and how we broke through our denial. Share how we are on a new and present path of becoming healed and filling that empty painful whole inside of us with new healthy choices and behaviors. Be an example that they can see. Offer them what we are selves need. Love, compassion and forgiveness. Acceptance of who they are today and who they may become. Has this not been offered to you at one time or another? Exchange you ashes for beauty. I've seen peoples gifts multiply. Forgiveness is a gift. Asking, receiving then putting it into action.
I accepted my part in hurting others. I apologized to them. I let them know that I will not participate in any activities that make me sick. I let them know at one time it filled the empty whole inside of me. It made me feel better during that period of my life. But, it quit making me feel better. It turned on me, making me feel worse inside. I knew I needed to do something different, so my whole could be filled.
Let the other party involved know that if and when it quits working for them you are willing to offer your hand in friendship. But, I've changed as I want to be a better person and a happier one. I'm continuing to change and grow into a healthier person. The one I'm meant to be. That it is no longer my business what you choose to do. For now it seems to still be working for you. I accept this. Please offer me the freedom of my own life choices, to be a better person. It doesn't mean I don't care about you, it just means we are on different paths. I'm letting you go.
You have the same freedom to make your own choices in life. All I'm asking is you give me the same respect and freedom. If you continue in your addiction, like I did at one time. There will be consequences as there were for myself. I'm still dealing with them today. I am not God and I can't fix you. I can only work on me with his help. I will pray for you and hand you over to God now. If you care about my well being please let me go.
Please know that if you are in real danger then remove yourself from your environment. As you need to protect yourself and your sobriety at all costs. I'm just requesting that you consider what I'm writing and possibly looking at your situation from a different perspective. I'm not the one living your life and I'm not you. I'm just sharing with you what has helped me. It may not help you. Some of what I say may not apply to your life.
I really care about you Marie. I don't know if these suggestions are helpful to you. I pray that something in these words will help. I believe there is a ticket waiting for you from your hp...God. That something good will come from your pain and struggles. I will pray for you and your life circumstances.
Love Always,
C~xxx
Gidday Pirate
Good on you for the earlier post where you stood up and said bugga the negative thinking I am a good person, in a way your prayers are being answered because the negativety is only there when you grab it back as you said and old habits take time to break and with a lot of breaks there is pain BUT in the end there is healing:)
The cycles i break by not drinking are not only the addiction one in our family but also all the other parts of the cycle that i inherited from Mum and Dad that they never broke from, from there living in the cycle of addiction as kids etc
Prayers can take awhile to be answered and even longer to be recognised at times
True Story
When i was drinking i hitch hiked a lot always praying for the van load of drunk woman to turn up and give me the ride of my life wwwoooohhhoo
About 6 months into recovery i was hitch hiking along a mountain pass and a Kea(native bird) was just flying and walking near me and a van pills up and low and behold it is full of drunk women all out for a good time and telling me as such well i had to say no, i stood there watching them leave and said to the Kea God has got a bloody good sense of humour and just to prove a point another van pulled up 20 minutes later with the same result
I was ready for the prayer to be answered because i was in the right frame of mind to deal with the options and of course god was just letting me know that he is listening and i bet having a laugh because god knowsLOL i have made him sit and wonder at times:)
Keep praying, keep posting because that is what this site is for and keep being gratefull you have god there is a base gratitude to which you add being sober today and you can add heaps more as you acknowledge them
light and love Zac
Good on you for the earlier post where you stood up and said bugga the negative thinking I am a good person, in a way your prayers are being answered because the negativety is only there when you grab it back as you said and old habits take time to break and with a lot of breaks there is pain BUT in the end there is healing:)
The cycles i break by not drinking are not only the addiction one in our family but also all the other parts of the cycle that i inherited from Mum and Dad that they never broke from, from there living in the cycle of addiction as kids etc
Prayers can take awhile to be answered and even longer to be recognised at times
True Story
When i was drinking i hitch hiked a lot always praying for the van load of drunk woman to turn up and give me the ride of my life wwwoooohhhoo
About 6 months into recovery i was hitch hiking along a mountain pass and a Kea(native bird) was just flying and walking near me and a van pills up and low and behold it is full of drunk women all out for a good time and telling me as such well i had to say no, i stood there watching them leave and said to the Kea God has got a bloody good sense of humour and just to prove a point another van pulled up 20 minutes later with the same result
I was ready for the prayer to be answered because i was in the right frame of mind to deal with the options and of course god was just letting me know that he is listening and i bet having a laugh because god knowsLOL i have made him sit and wonder at times:)
Keep praying, keep posting because that is what this site is for and keep being gratefull you have god there is a base gratitude to which you add being sober today and you can add heaps more as you acknowledge them
light and love Zac
There are some beautiful posts here pirate, by people who love you.
Of course you're not a bad person. God doesn't make bad people. When I follow the inner spirit He gifted me, when I follow my soul, my best self, whatever inadequate label I give it.....when I surrender my Will and follow I am doing His Will.....and that can never be wrong, whatever the outcome. He doesn't judge, he loves.
The people who judge are those people who trained me to follow them instead of myself, to obey them instead of that beautiful inner spirit God gifted me.
But only God is God. Follow His Will for you.
Follow your HP pirate, follow your heart. God's gift to you is you, and those who would have you follow their wishes instead of your own deepest, truest expression of God's Will for you are not to be listened to. They are on their own journey.
Trust your HP. Have Faith; faith drives out fear. God is with you, my friend. He always is.
Martin x
Of course you're not a bad person. God doesn't make bad people. When I follow the inner spirit He gifted me, when I follow my soul, my best self, whatever inadequate label I give it.....when I surrender my Will and follow I am doing His Will.....and that can never be wrong, whatever the outcome. He doesn't judge, he loves.
The people who judge are those people who trained me to follow them instead of myself, to obey them instead of that beautiful inner spirit God gifted me.
But only God is God. Follow His Will for you.
Follow your HP pirate, follow your heart. God's gift to you is you, and those who would have you follow their wishes instead of your own deepest, truest expression of God's Will for you are not to be listened to. They are on their own journey.
Trust your HP. Have Faith; faith drives out fear. God is with you, my friend. He always is.
Martin x
Guilty is a biggie and very often it seems it has no basis in reality.
We are taught we should be guilty, so therefore are guilty by nature and because we believe we are guilty and awful we start doing things to prove it to ourselves so the guilt feelings can be justified.
I have learnt - through mega guilt trips that it is just another way of being stuck in a self centred attitude. When I realised this it became clear that I wasn't really concerned about other people that much, it was just more self concern. Since I have realised that it has been easier to let go of the guilt feelings. This path is all about stepping away from self centredness.
You are doing really well Pirate, and I remember your bean jar! I thought it was a great idea, but it obviously doesn't serve you anymore.
We are taught we should be guilty, so therefore are guilty by nature and because we believe we are guilty and awful we start doing things to prove it to ourselves so the guilt feelings can be justified.
I have learnt - through mega guilt trips that it is just another way of being stuck in a self centred attitude. When I realised this it became clear that I wasn't really concerned about other people that much, it was just more self concern. Since I have realised that it has been easier to let go of the guilt feelings. This path is all about stepping away from self centredness.
You are doing really well Pirate, and I remember your bean jar! I thought it was a great idea, but it obviously doesn't serve you anymore.
Thank you all for the support I really appreciate it greatly. Like Lacey said this board is a place to come to where people understand. I have 3 grown children and I have told two of them that I am leaving. It was very difficult for me to do but I got up the courage and did it. I was afraid they would be angry and stop talking to me. but they will keep our relationship Thank God. I haven't told my son. I am taking the easy way out and my youngest daughter is going to tell him for me . I know he will be angry and upset with me. Thanks for sticking by me guys. I really need you at this point in my life. All my barriers are down. I have no walls left to break through. I just hope I can hang on to hope and courage and faith while I try to build a new foundation.
Zac I sent you an email. I don't know if you got it or not but It's ok if you chose not to answer it if you did get it. I understand if you don't want to.Thank you for your support
Zac I sent you an email. I don't know if you got it or not but It's ok if you chose not to answer it if you did get it. I understand if you don't want to.Thank you for your support
It's great that people are here for you when you need it the most isn't it!
You are doing what you have to do and I really admire you for having the courage to do it. I really can't imagine how tough this is for you Pirate. You have been really brave telling your oldest two, and so what if you had to take the easy way out and rely on one of them to tell your youngest. You need some ease in your life at this most difficult time.
Go easy on yourself, you will come through this, you will emerge out the other side. It may feel really dark right now but the light must always follow.
You are doing what you have to do and I really admire you for having the courage to do it. I really can't imagine how tough this is for you Pirate. You have been really brave telling your oldest two, and so what if you had to take the easy way out and rely on one of them to tell your youngest. You need some ease in your life at this most difficult time.
Go easy on yourself, you will come through this, you will emerge out the other side. It may feel really dark right now but the light must always follow.
Havent checked the emails yet so will get my a into gear and check, as i usually check them every couple of days or so
light and love Zac
light and love Zac
