Painkillers, Suboxone,chronic Pain,help Please

Hi guys, I hae had a 7 year addiction to prescription pills. I was and hope to be again a great musician...but right now i ve taken the 2nd hard step at looking my addiction dead in the face. I was on percoset vicodin, ambien, and have abused alcohol and drugd at various points...I also have very bad pain issues which got me hooked. Once I found pills any other drug , alcohol mainly was pushed aside..
I started out two years ago getting off of pills and on to methadone. I was up as hhigh as 180 and am now down to 30mgs. i have left NYC and am staying with my Family who is supporting me all the way. I have seen a Dr. who recommended suboxone. Oh, I also have severe depression, from an early age, which i took pills to eliminate.....I now find myself 3 weeks in Fl on 30 mgs methadone adn waiting to see if making the leap to suboxone will get me free of taking these life altering, phyically controlling demons that have taken a toll on my career, relationships, and mental health. Im on celexa for depression 40 mgs. I didnt know methadone and suboxone heightened depression....that 's scary. As of 1 month ago i was still getting vicodinevery now and again because i just cant help not feeling like i need to take something all the time. My methadone kept me clear of pills for two years, i recently had the vicodins...and i also abused ambien and xanex. I think the anxiety and lack of sleep has gotten so bad the further off methadone i got.... I go back to the dr. in two weeks to see if suboxone will be my next step. i still take 3 to four xanex to get to sleep, and celexa but other than that Im off painkillers again....(they didnt work on methadone) but i just had the psychological habit...still do but i ve come clean with my whole family....Im in a severely depressed state. I know that this is the right decision but sometimes I still long for the days i could take pills and not be in pain(of any kind), and have that get up and go feeling...that feeling is long gone. I want to get it back aagain by rebuilding my brain, my physical health, and spiritual health . I truly do want to be free(i go to a clinic and it s costing me a fortune....in every way)......I m still really scared. I have a tinge of withdrawl mostly towards night but i refuse to go up again. I want to make the leap to suboxone......Can you guys just tell me what to expect and maybe give me a little encouragement....I truly want this....but my ability to want to do anything left the day I put the pills down.(the first time 2 years ago maybe three...)I have family support but they cant talk and know what it feels like to have your skin feel like there s fire ants in it...to not want to go anywhere. To give up on your dreams...I had early success as a singer.songwriter...but even now i cant have fun doing what i love the most.....I ve been on 30mgs for like 6 months...i still feel pretty bad...like i said im alsogoing to my rhuematologist again after 5 years or so to try and help my rhueamatoid arthritis without pills......but thats kind of the tangled web I ve weaved...I need some hope and maybe i can get it? Im 34 years old, recently seperated after 7 years...and on disability. Sorry for the book, but......we all have them right
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thank you,
jerry
Hi Jerry im new to this website and everyone here is so so helpful. I am addicted to roxycodone. I take like 10 a day right now. But I have been on suboxone before, And I also have severe depression! The other night on a rly bad night I found this place and just started typing. But anyways, suboxone actually made me feel normal, it didnt make me depressed at all. Ihelped knowing I wasnt on dope at the time. Right now is the worst I have ever been on dope. But the ppl r helping me alot here. I was having reservations about calling the hospital for treatment and finally I did and I have an app. for next month. But enough about me, I just want to tell u that if ur on methodone and thinking about suboxone then do it! Its a way better way to go. Suboxone dont make u high and fall asleep. Atleast not me at least. It depends on what u r used to doing.
I know what it feels like tp be depressed and just want tp give up on life. I have been there and at times I still am there. It isnt something that u just get over. My pshychaitrist (mispelled) always told me to write down my problems in a journal. I still take my journal every where I go if I have a bad day or if something is onmy mind. And getting on here and writing down what im feeling helps so so much. Especially to have supportive ppl behind u. I have cried every time I have logged on because of the love and encouragement! I dont have support in my life, wel, not by the most important ppl in my life. Thats great that u do.. So just hang in there and come back and write more. It will make u feel better, I promise!!
Hi Jerry, I'm an MMT patient, and have taken suboxone in the past as well.

Couple things...your dose is probably low enough that you can switch to suboxone, although as I'm sure you've been told, you won't be able to take hydro or other pain meds on top of your sub dose. Also, I don't know how long you've been taking them, but drugs like xanax and ambien are a lot more likely to cause depression or hinder your ability to shake off depression than methadone. Everyone is different, of course, but methadone actually eliminates the need for anti-depressants in a lot of chronically-depressed people. Who told you it tends to cause depression? I only mention this because it has become the "in" thing to blame anything and everything that goes wrong for MMT patients on methadone. Sometimes life just happens, no matter what you do, it's not always *that*.

The only negative I've heard from people making the switch to sub from methadone, is an increase in anxiety, thoughts racing, that kind of thing, just feeling real antsy. They are different drugs and they work differently. Both are narcotics, but both have the advantage of not binding fully to all receptors, unlike the drugs we tend to abuse, leaving open space for the body's own endorphins while maintaining baseline levels sufficient to allow us to function. That is a big reason why they work so well as endorphin replacement drugs for people who need them. You are much more likely, at least statistically, to experience chronic depression, the kind that can't be corrected by an SSRI, once you stop taking methadone, because your baseline levels of endorphin production will be entirely dependent on a brain that is unable to produce those chemicals adequately.

I know this is not what you came here to hear, and there will be
other posters coming along with different viewpoints. I just wanted to introduce the idea that everything is not going to be "fixed" by stopping methadone therapy. Many people do leave treatment, of course, and you have to do what's best for you, of course. Not all opiate-addicted people need medication, but statistically speaking, it's the best treatment we have, and the underlying dysfunction is not cured by abstinence. The reality is, you can expect to be dealing with this for a long time yet, no matter what you do, MMT, abstinence, back to using, whatever, it's part of your life for awhile one way or another.
You are feeling anxious right now because of your lowered dose of methadone.I've never heard that methadone or suboxone increase depression but I haven't taken either,just have read a lot about them.

One thing you might want to keep telling yourself is to trust these people that have the skills to treat you.They will help you but you have to trust them and be completely honest about all drugs you are currently taking.

I don't believe they will mess with your AD's but I'm a little concerned about the Xanax and Suboxone.Both those drugs decrease respitory function and they might want to taper you off the Xanax but I'm not the doctor.

The most important thing is that you divulge all information.We addicts will want to minimize our usage if we feel threatned.
3-4 Xanax,ambien and some Vicodin...........that's what I mean.With Suboxone,you shouldn't need those.You've already said you were on it before and it made you feel normal and not depressed? See the contradictions?

Just relax and let them treat you.
Jerry,

OK, OK, OK.......I've been waiting to read a story so similar to mine! Good news, my friend.....you will feel MUCH better. Let's just say that our ages, backgrounds, interests, and abuse histories are matches. I am hppier, calmer, and cleaner than I have ever been! I did use suboxone, and found that it actually helped my depression/anxiety. I am no longer taking it. I attend 12-step meetings.....it actually took me a while to embrace them, but they are providing me with support and strength. I am still able to create music and write songs without booze, pot, pills, or any other drug.

There is a light you can reach even though it i pitch-black right now. You came to the right place, and you have gotten some good advice already. Read Tim's post again....he is wise.

Keep posting!
Jer
Hello?
thank you guys a whole lot for replying so fast. Today was tough. Im in florida right now,away from all my drs in Ny. I ve comiiyyed to doing this but I can't lie I m starting to get back into a really dark, depressed state. You see i had major succes in a band.The pills actually for that time period got me around hthe wrold pain free...alhtough the after math when it was over was addiction. you guys read my story. I soent twp years getting my life back on track. Getting on the methadone forming a really kick a** band.....my girl left me 8 months ago. Like i said 2 months ago I took a bunch of vicodin and hat was just e relapse. Makor sepression over where I am right ow in life after coming to florida is making me not want to do anything. I sometimes just want to die. TI saw my new rhuematologist and they said that at some point I ll have to "tough" it out...I have really bad pain, which , since Im down off the methadone to 30 mgs is coming back. anyways I have an app't which a pain management DR...and will tell him my stosy. BUt up in New York everythings a mess. M drummer quit, mt career is allbut dead...and honelsty with all thats going on I'm in mo position to start over with music. For the first time ever I just cant find the passion. Anyways, im just real bad tonight. istayed in bed all day which i havent done in 4-5 months. I know my recovery comes first, but sometimes i dont think i can mae it. Im so depressed guys...I thought coming clean would make it better. It seems im just more depressed as ever. I still have my aot in new york, adn need to decide whether to move down here while i recover, or go back . I really feel like im back to being a loser who couldnt make it in NY and am back home. i always wanted out of this town but a stream of mishaos have me right back here...im not getting any younger. And my ambition, motivation, self respect is at an all time low.....I wanted to call in some vicodin today from Ny, but I didnt.I just want to feel like im strong, because i feel like aw eak ;itt;e 8 yeear old kid...ever feel that way? I feel lke an ill equipped 34 year old washed up musician...I hope suboxone gives me my energy back...or are there AD combos i could try? I know at some point i have to learn how to function feeling bad...but right now it s all i can do not to just let the tde wash over me...im so dead derious...i kept an emergency stash of pills for a long time when i stopped using in case i wanted to check out......Dont think i can do hat though, it s just not me.

Also, has anyone had succes coming completely off subuxone and how did you feel....? IN regards to pain, what if opiate based drugs are the only thing thsy helps the pain ...I am reavaluating,, but do i carry the stigma of a pill addict foever. Would I ever be ablee to go back p Pain Manangement and take things(opiates) the right way or am i in denial? Any more success stories...Thx for the fellow musician you know how hard this business is.....i just watched my hard work go down the drain for a third time....And my future is a question mark..I m tryong to decide whether to move here, get it together and then see where i stand....but I'm in that dark leave me alone everyone mind set 2 day.....Im so tired of it all......I can get motivated and feel strong for like a day or two...and then it's lock me in my room..........thxx for the response would love to hear more...and thanks again, this plac is saving me tonight

jerry 101
I'm not a muscian but I am a drug addict and so are you.We have that in common.Right now,forget the band.Get yourself in the now and concentrate on getting help.

The induction of Suboxone will immediately make you feel better.There will be no need for opaites because they won't work anyway.I believe the depression after the induction will start lifting but may take a few days until they adjust your dose.

This is the reality.You are a 34 year old addict that is probably a great muscian.You are starting to have w/d's which depression and suicidal idealogy is a hallmark symptom.You have real pain.You are terrified of treatment and starting over.

None of those things are unusual.

When you get stabalized on Suboxone,you will immediately feel better.You are still a muscian and that will never go away but for now it's an irrelevant factor.If you don't get into treatment you will be a dead muscian.In treatment they will require you to make 12 step meetings and therapy so take advantage of it.This is what is going to turn your life around.

34 is young.Look at Steven Tyler,although he may not be the best example now since he's back in rehab but the dude has to be in his 50's.He has had long periods of sobriety.

I have also heard that Suboxone can be prescribed off label for pain,so who knows? Some of your pain might be alleviated and then the rest of it could be managed with other things besides agonist opiates.Suboxone is still an opiate but it only has partial agonist qualities.If you allow others to help you and give it a chance all this anxiety you are feeling will gradualy be alleviated.

An addicts first knee jerk reaction to treatment is resistance.That's not the real you talking,it's a deeply ingrained part of a complicated denial system your ego created.

Just do this and only think about today.All this panic is just part of the process.
Not a drummer here either...but I am an addict. You are among friends here. People who get it.

My son is on suboxone and doing well with it. I think the key here is finding an addiction specialist. I know that you have real chronic pain and need that kind of dr as well but an addictionologist working in combination with your pain specialist just might be the ticket.

I don't know much about methadone other than when detoxing from it, you will experience depression. The good news is that this too shall pass. It doesn't last forever which is hard to be ok with when you feel so crappy right now, I know. I'm sorry. But it does get better.

I would really encourage you to seek out an addiction specialist and bring all of your doctors on board with honesty. Let them help you. I hope that you keep posting here....
Tim and Lisa are wise. They have outlined some great steps to get started with recovery. I can remember when I was in your shoes.....everbody on this board was where you are now. You will get through the panic and depression!!
thanks tim and the rest of you guys....that helps for today. And i m trying to focus on that. The addictionoligst thing is also a really good idea. And i m so glad that i can talk here. Whatever career we're in your right we re all addicts, And unitl i take care of that, the point is moot as they say. Tim, im going to do what you said, and you really hit home on my pattern of thinking. I always run for the hills...I remember the first time i used vicodin in a conscious way. I was in pain, alot of it. I was working full time, my girl of 7 years had just left and i had recently started dating another girl who ended up leaving me 8 months ago. I had been through a round of Dr s and nothing was helping. I didnt have the time to really do physical therapy although i was actually on the floow doing them. I had just been prescribed vicodin by my then rhuematologist although after surgery i had taken some as prescribed with no real effect. I remember being really angry adn sad that i was sad about my girl, my pain, and having to make a living and pursue my dreams with all this pain. NO ONE seemed to be able to get rid of the pain. And i thought, what if i just take 4 at a time (i had a history of addictive behavior but it hadnt had a real impact on my life as of yet...i mostly was drinking. anyways....Bam I felt No Pain, physical or emotional.....and it was over for me after that. So, im coming to terms with the fact that this may take awhile...IM not used to the ups and downs of life...Whenever things get tough, even little hings, i get depressed and its not that i think ill crack and take pills, but i get depressed that i cant. I think losing my girl was a huge part of me taking a look at myself(dont tell her that lol), but i just feel naturally sort of down now that i dont have a crutch....Life is real tough, and true friends are more apparent then evr....you know the people i used to think actually cared are nowhere to be found.....funny how that works..... I hate going to the methadone clinic soooo much it makes me so angry...I wish i would've been smat enough to do this sooner...but i just have a complicated case with the pain....but i will try this the right way and if you guys feel like given me advice i ll always appreciate it....
Do you guys feel like your life has gotten better off drugs? Honestly....or is life just life either way?
Definitely yes and yes.
Life doesn't get perfect after you get clean.You will possibly go through a honeymoon phase but staying clean takes work.It's not free.

Real life is not feeling good all the time but at least you start feeling.Treatment is an on going process but there starts this little thing called hope that keeps building the longer you are clean.Detox is only a beginning,it is not an end.

My advise to you is to temper your expectations and just do this one day at a time,or one hour at a time.The advantages of you doing this now is that you will have decades to become the person you never even thought possible.

Get in to that rehab ASAP.
I see a lot of similarities. I'm from Buff NY, was on meth for years, moved, got off meth, used got back on, was at 160 mg, got in an accident, a lot of pain, a year or so of dilaudad, opama, etc . Ended up getting on suboxone which was a lifesaver ----No wds, no craving, no high like methadone, no new drug contacts. I really got my life back.
Hi Jerry! I just wanted to tell you that suboxone allowed me to get a life back. I went back to teaching after 10 years...something I never thought I would be able to do because of my addiction. It also helped with my depression. I was a habitual relasper due to wd's being so awful or if I got past the wd's I would still feel bad...not "normal". I do not think I would be here today if I had not gotten on suboxone and gotten treatment. It's not a cure all pill, but it can really help. I do however, have mixed feelings about sub. It still has opiates in them so getting off of it can be difficult if you stay on it long-term. So, IMO I think it should be a person's last resort. Meaning if you can't stay off pills on your own after you've tried other things. It does sound like you would be a good candidate for it.

Another thing that I believe someone brought up is that mixing sub with benzos is dangerous. Most or all dr.'s will not induce or let you take it if you are taking benzos.

Lastly, I believe that working a recovery program with the suboxone will give you the most success! I hope you are felling better soon. Keep us updated!