Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power- that One is God. May you find Him now!
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
© That God could and would if He were sought.
My favorite part of that reading.
"God could and would, if he were sought"
Always gives me chills.
Thanks August.
"God could and would, if he were sought"
Always gives me chills.
Thanks August.
I'm loving all of these inspirational posts today! Just what I needed...
---->The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines.
Getting down to the brass tax, the crux of the matter.
Have a great week-end.
August, not sure if you have heard any of the Further shows as of yet. Here is a link to the 12-12 show (Asbury Park).
The Warf Rat is something that must be heard.
The part where JK sings.
"I know the LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFE, I'm livings no good. Is well, EPIC.
http://www.archive.org/details/furt...i.103550.flac16
Getting down to the brass tax, the crux of the matter.
Have a great week-end.
August, not sure if you have heard any of the Further shows as of yet. Here is a link to the 12-12 show (Asbury Park).
The Warf Rat is something that must be heard.
The part where JK sings.
"I know the LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFE, I'm livings no good. Is well, EPIC.
http://www.archive.org/details/furt...i.103550.flac16
Just curious about this, I know that AA and NA is open to people of all faith or no faith including athiests. I have even heard of AA athiest groups. That is pretty interesting.
I can understand an agnostic working the program, but how does it work or should I say how can an athiest find a faith in turning himself to a higher power that (in his belief) does not exist.
If any of you are an athiest, I would love to hear your comments. Or if u know an AA/NA athiest and understand his position, I'd love to hear.
As to why people make it or dont make it in recovery, I respectfully think that maybe in some cases it is honesty & the other things u mentioned, but I believe there are as many reasons as their are people. There is an X factor, that maybe those who don't make it figure out. It is also possible, like you said, that they don't have the strength, or are unwilling to use the strength and courage it takes to be honest with oneself.
There is one thing I know for sure, each person who wants to recover has a 100% chance of recovery, especially when working a good program like NA.
I can understand an agnostic working the program, but how does it work or should I say how can an athiest find a faith in turning himself to a higher power that (in his belief) does not exist.
If any of you are an athiest, I would love to hear your comments. Or if u know an AA/NA athiest and understand his position, I'd love to hear.
As to why people make it or dont make it in recovery, I respectfully think that maybe in some cases it is honesty & the other things u mentioned, but I believe there are as many reasons as their are people. There is an X factor, that maybe those who don't make it figure out. It is also possible, like you said, that they don't have the strength, or are unwilling to use the strength and courage it takes to be honest with oneself.
There is one thing I know for sure, each person who wants to recover has a 100% chance of recovery, especially when working a good program like NA.
Dawg, I know a friend who has been in AA, clean and sober, no relapses, for over 15 years. He is a very, very smart guy, serious coke head back in the day, and an atheist. I do not know much about his program, but it appears to work for him.
I have heard of people using the group as a higher power. I have heard people refer to GOD as an acronym that stands for Good Orderly Direction. Heck, when I started, the closest manifestation of my Higher Power was Good Ole Grateful Dead ("GOGD"), although any serious fan will tell you that it is the "music that plays the band," and that implies something more.
Point is, that AA is about as ecumenical as it gets. I have one friend who tapped into Buddhism, but after nearly 20 years she managed to reconnect and reconcile with her fundamentalist upbringing.
I know another guy who started as a deadhead but has returned to his conservative Jewish origins. He has 22 years. Joe, he visited me over New Years and told me that the latest incarnation of Further is by far the best.
AA was designed to allow each of us to find our spiritual path, without judgment, without dogma. Some augment AA with church, some with meditation, some feel that AA is enough. Point is that if someone tries to shove their view of God down the throat of another, they are working against the principles of AA not in favor of them.
I will add that most of us find that our concept of an HP evolves as we get clean and live sober. The important thing is to simply start where we are at and stay open.
I hope this helps.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."Herbert Spencer
I have heard of people using the group as a higher power. I have heard people refer to GOD as an acronym that stands for Good Orderly Direction. Heck, when I started, the closest manifestation of my Higher Power was Good Ole Grateful Dead ("GOGD"), although any serious fan will tell you that it is the "music that plays the band," and that implies something more.
Point is, that AA is about as ecumenical as it gets. I have one friend who tapped into Buddhism, but after nearly 20 years she managed to reconnect and reconcile with her fundamentalist upbringing.
I know another guy who started as a deadhead but has returned to his conservative Jewish origins. He has 22 years. Joe, he visited me over New Years and told me that the latest incarnation of Further is by far the best.
AA was designed to allow each of us to find our spiritual path, without judgment, without dogma. Some augment AA with church, some with meditation, some feel that AA is enough. Point is that if someone tries to shove their view of God down the throat of another, they are working against the principles of AA not in favor of them.
I will add that most of us find that our concept of an HP evolves as we get clean and live sober. The important thing is to simply start where we are at and stay open.
I hope this helps.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."Herbert Spencer
I tread with caution into this area. The God aspect of recovery.
It is so very personal, I know what works for me. That is having a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I study his word and it reveals things to me. He is Love and so much more. I pray one day people who are lost, or lacking, or just beaten down meet him. But that's me.
I hope any person searching, finds.
I don't know this dude, but I have heard some good stuff about this documentary.
He seems like a seeker.
http://www.godasweunderstandhim.org...akingofdoc.html
It is so very personal, I know what works for me. That is having a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I study his word and it reveals things to me. He is Love and so much more. I pray one day people who are lost, or lacking, or just beaten down meet him. But that's me.
I hope any person searching, finds.
I don't know this dude, but I have heard some good stuff about this documentary.
He seems like a seeker.
http://www.godasweunderstandhim.org...akingofdoc.html
Joe, I am just finishing listening to the entire show you linked. Viola Lee Blues is starting as I write this. The show was monstrous from the first notes of the first set. The new guitarist really has the tone and pace together like nothing I have heard since before 1995. He was great with Dark Star Orchestra, much better with this band. He also has the vocals nailed.
I am really annoyed with myself. They play a very small, cool venue in my home city (Atlanta) in two weeks -- I was tipped off as to when the tix were to go on sale and I just did not motivate to get them. They are selling on the scalper market for $500 each.
Great, great show. May be time to nail a retread to my shoes and pray for better weather!
August
I am really annoyed with myself. They play a very small, cool venue in my home city (Atlanta) in two weeks -- I was tipped off as to when the tix were to go on sale and I just did not motivate to get them. They are selling on the scalper market for $500 each.
Great, great show. May be time to nail a retread to my shoes and pray for better weather!
August
Hi Brown,
I am an atheist and I go to aa meetings.
I use the group consciousness as the higher power.
To me it's the power of many minds interacting togther for a common purpose and good.And I leave it at that because I am not there for metaphysical discussion or arguements.
Doing that only complicates what is a simple program(for complicated people as they say).
So it's an Occams razor kind of thing.
Hope I made sense here.
Best to you!
I am an atheist and I go to aa meetings.
I use the group consciousness as the higher power.
To me it's the power of many minds interacting togther for a common purpose and good.And I leave it at that because I am not there for metaphysical discussion or arguements.
Doing that only complicates what is a simple program(for complicated people as they say).
So it's an Occams razor kind of thing.
Hope I made sense here.
Best to you!
"Religion Is For Those Afraid Of Going To Hell, Spirituality Is For Those Who Have Already Been There"
---->Great, great show. May be time to nail a retread to my shoes and pray for better weather!
I'll keep an eye out for some ATL tickets
I would love for the Barton Hall(Cornell baby)--I wonder if they will redo 77. tickets on Valentines day.
I want to take the wife fly up and back. We shall see. There is always Spring/Summer tour. A little birdie told me they are doing like 60 shed dates.
THE ROAD BECKONS.
Why I married me a bad girl, tell you the reason why
Bad girls will even do things on the sly
Look for your supper to be good and hot
She never even put a stew bone in the pot
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Friend come by, say looking for his hat
Wants to know where your husband's at
I don't know, he's on his way to the pen
Come on pretty mama, let's get on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Went to my house the front door was locked
Went 'round to my window, but my window was locked
Jumped right back, shook my head,
Big old rounder in my folding bed
Jumped into the window, broke the glass
Never seen that little rounder run so fast
Come on pretty mama, let's get on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Here is to going just a little bit FURTHUR than you've gone before.
Joe
I'll keep an eye out for some ATL tickets
I would love for the Barton Hall(Cornell baby)--I wonder if they will redo 77. tickets on Valentines day.
I want to take the wife fly up and back. We shall see. There is always Spring/Summer tour. A little birdie told me they are doing like 60 shed dates.
THE ROAD BECKONS.
Why I married me a bad girl, tell you the reason why
Bad girls will even do things on the sly
Look for your supper to be good and hot
She never even put a stew bone in the pot
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Friend come by, say looking for his hat
Wants to know where your husband's at
I don't know, he's on his way to the pen
Come on pretty mama, let's get on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Went to my house the front door was locked
Went 'round to my window, but my window was locked
Jumped right back, shook my head,
Big old rounder in my folding bed
Jumped into the window, broke the glass
Never seen that little rounder run so fast
Come on pretty mama, let's get on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Natural born eastman on the road again
She's on the road again, sure as you're born
Here is to going just a little bit FURTHUR than you've gone before.
Joe