This is an excerpt from the one posted with my permission but removed by some managers at PA. I have taken out a few answers or responces to other posters. It is now and as was originally all my words. My personal opinion.Take it or leave it. It should not be removed from those that feel information is dangerous. Period.If they are secure with them selves they should not feel this information is a threat to others.Opinions are like assholes we all have one.This is mine.
I was in a terrible car accident that broke nearly every bone in my body. I was put on narcotics and sent home with narcotics. The use escalated. Things became out of control. i knew I was using for more than just physical pain..i was using these silly triangular shaped pills to comfort, to search for a happiness that was missing in my life.
I decided to research my options....I was encouraged and more or less bullied into going the 12 step method. It didnt ring true to me. the disease concept did not ring true to me. Had a sponsor who was more f***ed up then I was. the fact that I was a Dr. was fueling my shame, fueling my addiction. i should know better.
The idea of therapy or meetings, including this board, is in fact important in recovery from addiction. Keeping to yourself and the ever present shame one deals with from abusing pills keeps one stuck. Shame kept me stuck.
I decided to research.
Do what i do best..investigate the brain. Rearch research research. Knowledge is power and it can set you free. this i knew.
Why did A 12 step based therapy not work for 90% of those seeking abstinence from their addiction? ( See
research by Baldwin Research Institute in Upstate NewYork )
Quite simply, they use therapy ( good stuff) psychological and spiritual approaches ( good stuff)
BUT they do not erradicate the addiction 90% of the time because they do not address the primary cause of addiction, .which is PHYSICAL, not psychological or spiritual.
To be successful, a program needs to address the biological core of addiction.
I knew i was addicted. Did i suffer from horrible lack of moral fiber...have poor self control issues???NO A Harvard study disposed of that "weakness" notion in a blind side study done in 1983.
Hope your with me. Will try to use layman and non medical terms..refrain from pscho-babble...According to what I learned..ANYONE could become addicted, despite their personality...their up bringing, their culture, their status, their surroundings.
The key genes in addiction are those that program or run our brain functions.There are several ways to have faulty areas of your brain.
-Use of brain altering substances, especially long term use.
- genetics..you may be born with areas of your brain's mood functions that are faulty and need supplementation...have always needed them.
If by either long term drug use, or genetics you have deficiencies in serotonin, norepinephrine, endophins or GABA, you will by your very nature...be attracted to drugs or substances that affect that particular deficent brain zone or zones.
Long term narcotic use such as I had was causing a terrible cycle, the more i used, the more i changed my brain chemistry, which made me need, want more to feel better.
Without correcting these deficiencies, I had no hope of recovery no matter how badly I wanted
There are very simple questionairres that you can take with a doctor that works with brain chemistry. You must answer the questions as to what why and when you use drugs, substances ( including cofee, chocolate cigarrettes, valium, pain pills.. etc )...to figure out the parts of your brain that is seeking drugs to "fix" itself. tests are done.
Holistic clinics are growing in number as we are finding out the how why and whats of addiction, and study brain maps, the brain maps of drug addicts, alcoholics, etc...
I went to one in Mill valley CA called Recovery Systems. Their website is www.moodcure.com
I encourage all to post, share their feelings Communication, sharing are essential in recovery in all types of afflictions....disorders but:
please look into the POSSIBILTY you have altered your brain chemistry and you need help getting it back...
OR
the POSSIBILITY you were born with brain chemistry imbalace and have been running around your whole life literally "self medicating"
To feel hapiness, peace, contentment and calm are natural goals we all seek. Our spirit, our inner child, wants to feel good...be happy This is normal and human. Dont punish yourself anymore. Its not your fault. there is long term help.You can live without being labeled an addict forever..Im living proof.
Encouragment to ALL
Do you have any tips on getting your brain chemistry back?
Yes!!!!
Right on!
I am a nurse. My experience is similar to yours, though I had some drug use as a teen . BUT- severe injury, given narcs, narcs started to feel better and better.. and then all of a sudden, I realize Im using them for fun and nothing more. And soon after that I lost control of my body DUE to narc use.
Noone,, in any program has ever addressed the physical .
Always.. ALWAYS the spiritual . >sigh<
Chemical dependancy isnt spiritual.
your body craves the drug, learns to live on the drug, and uses it to regulate your bodies functions. That is why it cant be stopped just on a whim. That is why it is so powerful. That is why it kills.
AA - NA says, just find a higher power and take some steps.
Well.. if finding a 'god' was the way.. we wouldnt have addicts. Period.
of course, you said it better then I did.
But horray!
thanks for your post.
:-)
Right on!
I am a nurse. My experience is similar to yours, though I had some drug use as a teen . BUT- severe injury, given narcs, narcs started to feel better and better.. and then all of a sudden, I realize Im using them for fun and nothing more. And soon after that I lost control of my body DUE to narc use.
Noone,, in any program has ever addressed the physical .
Always.. ALWAYS the spiritual . >sigh<
Chemical dependancy isnt spiritual.
your body craves the drug, learns to live on the drug, and uses it to regulate your bodies functions. That is why it cant be stopped just on a whim. That is why it is so powerful. That is why it kills.
AA - NA says, just find a higher power and take some steps.
Well.. if finding a 'god' was the way.. we wouldnt have addicts. Period.
of course, you said it better then I did.
But horray!
thanks for your post.
:-)
Hi Dante and welcome to the board.
I'm fascinated by what you've said. I'd love to hear more about brain chemistry and what methods were used to help you. Thanks for sharing with us, Kat
I'm fascinated by what you've said. I'd love to hear more about brain chemistry and what methods were used to help you. Thanks for sharing with us, Kat
dantestante,
Thank God....someone finally gets it. Kudos for you. Been saying this ever since I have joined the board.
Thank God....someone finally gets it. Kudos for you. Been saying this ever since I have joined the board.
Dantte ... keep comin back.
Hi all
Thankyou for your warm welcomes.
A book that is of considerable aid regarding brain deficiences is The mood cure.
Many homeopathic doctors are giving tests that can pin point what areas of your brain need support.
Women often need to balance their hormones to keep their mood in check. This is no different, whether by accident or abuse, and even genetics, the brain can be deficient in certain amino acids etc..the intake of narcotics can change our brain chemistry, which keeps us craving more and more. The good news is that this can be corrected.
This area of medicine has made huge strides, as we learn who gets addicted and why. We need not live with the label addict our whole lives if we do not want to. In fact for many labeling is most damaging and perpetuates the myth that we are uncapable of change. We are. We can. Education is key.
All the Best,
Dante
Thankyou for your warm welcomes.
A book that is of considerable aid regarding brain deficiences is The mood cure.
Many homeopathic doctors are giving tests that can pin point what areas of your brain need support.
Women often need to balance their hormones to keep their mood in check. This is no different, whether by accident or abuse, and even genetics, the brain can be deficient in certain amino acids etc..the intake of narcotics can change our brain chemistry, which keeps us craving more and more. The good news is that this can be corrected.
This area of medicine has made huge strides, as we learn who gets addicted and why. We need not live with the label addict our whole lives if we do not want to. In fact for many labeling is most damaging and perpetuates the myth that we are uncapable of change. We are. We can. Education is key.
All the Best,
Dante
Dante, you are an asset to this board.
keep coming back, I am facsinated by the brain chemistry thing.
I truly believe that we (the people here) are genetically hardwired to be "addicted"
Karen
keep coming back, I am facsinated by the brain chemistry thing.
I truly believe that we (the people here) are genetically hardwired to be "addicted"
Karen
I guess that I am the only one here who thinks what he is posting is a load of crap.
But as the cliche goes.........opinions are like.......well you know.
But as the cliche goes.........opinions are like.......well you know.
lol,ky your not,i had an idea,if phycologist,and there the only ones ive noticed do this'bring there lingo from work,into there lives, or in front of a subject instead of being a reg person,wouldnt that be an addiction?i still believe in strength of 'will' dealing with all forms of addiction..and compassion...but if it helps just one,guess its okay...if
Sharon,
No, you're not the only one, but it's 2am and I just got home from a meeting, the diner, and then a midnight meeting, so I'm too tired to respond.
Love,
Matt
No, you're not the only one, but it's 2am and I just got home from a meeting, the diner, and then a midnight meeting, so I'm too tired to respond.
Love,
Matt
Thanks. I just don't believe that an MD, especially a psychiatrist, would come to this board and post such a slanted, uneducated view of addiction.
Sharon
Sharon
Just thinking, I would love to have all of the answers - admit I don't - what if he's right? We do I beleve that addiction is hereditary and that would involve the brain. Why would there no be that part of our brain that may decide if we were to be an addict before we been bocome an addict?
If we never use our DOC that triggers it, we woudln't have bebome addicts. It makes a lot of sense with me. Durying the partying time I had (warning: turn away if this may trigger you:) I drank, tried pot, took speed maybe 3-4 times, only liked the wine and later boubon and coke.
Although, I could wait until wekends when my Mother had my sons all nigt Saturday night. I never felt the NEED to do this partying ever day. But when I took that first Lortab at age 36, it was like magic - no PAIN frpm OA or Fibromyalgia - lots of ENERGY - solved all of the world problems. Of course we know how long this DIDN'T LAST!
That was in 30's for a little over 3 years, did the same just with less pills in my 40's (thought I could handle less (NOT) so another little over 3 years of addictiion. I think our brains decide who we are and our make up
I do think we have to tell out brains 'no' and it's no easy.
Why would you see 2 children raised in the same home, one in a rage and end up in prison and the other calm, a college graduate, starting a family.
I know the parents, well enough, to know these boys weren't treated differently.
of course the parents are still blaming temselves. The one who ended up in prison - I saw a lot of bad behavior as he was growing up. They weren't twins but were close in age. When the other brother would try and slow the other dowm, he would say things like "I know you're the good son, they wish I would just disappear" I knew these words were coming from this angry young man and not his parents.
My oldest, when he was 15 and really driving me cravy (I still say that is the hardest age if you have or that age is coming up and 16 I have heard for a girl) just a little help.
I had never thought this and it broke my heart that he thought this but back then, did he mean all of what he said to me or was it just really hard being 15 - where the boys look 13 and the girls look 21 in your 1st year of HS.
Anyway, he knew our middle son was doing well in school and our youngest was doing well and having fun (he had a litttle of both in hin) he said to me one day "Why don't you just let me leave, then you will have your perfect little family? I don't fit in here." Broke my heart, of course I told him he did fit in, just skipping school and slipping and smoking cigarettes, we would not toleate.
End of story.
I thought e'one thought that way, that addiction starts in the brain.
Takes it's toll on the body.
Jean
If we never use our DOC that triggers it, we woudln't have bebome addicts. It makes a lot of sense with me. Durying the partying time I had (warning: turn away if this may trigger you:) I drank, tried pot, took speed maybe 3-4 times, only liked the wine and later boubon and coke.
Although, I could wait until wekends when my Mother had my sons all nigt Saturday night. I never felt the NEED to do this partying ever day. But when I took that first Lortab at age 36, it was like magic - no PAIN frpm OA or Fibromyalgia - lots of ENERGY - solved all of the world problems. Of course we know how long this DIDN'T LAST!
That was in 30's for a little over 3 years, did the same just with less pills in my 40's (thought I could handle less (NOT) so another little over 3 years of addictiion. I think our brains decide who we are and our make up
I do think we have to tell out brains 'no' and it's no easy.
Why would you see 2 children raised in the same home, one in a rage and end up in prison and the other calm, a college graduate, starting a family.
I know the parents, well enough, to know these boys weren't treated differently.
of course the parents are still blaming temselves. The one who ended up in prison - I saw a lot of bad behavior as he was growing up. They weren't twins but were close in age. When the other brother would try and slow the other dowm, he would say things like "I know you're the good son, they wish I would just disappear" I knew these words were coming from this angry young man and not his parents.
My oldest, when he was 15 and really driving me cravy (I still say that is the hardest age if you have or that age is coming up and 16 I have heard for a girl) just a little help.
I had never thought this and it broke my heart that he thought this but back then, did he mean all of what he said to me or was it just really hard being 15 - where the boys look 13 and the girls look 21 in your 1st year of HS.
Anyway, he knew our middle son was doing well in school and our youngest was doing well and having fun (he had a litttle of both in hin) he said to me one day "Why don't you just let me leave, then you will have your perfect little family? I don't fit in here." Broke my heart, of course I told him he did fit in, just skipping school and slipping and smoking cigarettes, we would not toleate.
End of story.
I thought e'one thought that way, that addiction starts in the brain.
Takes it's toll on the body.
Jean
Jean,
I do agree with you that addiction is hereitary. That was not the point of what I'm saying.
Sharon
I do agree with you that addiction is hereitary. That was not the point of what I'm saying.
Sharon
Dante,thanks for posting.I for one,am always OPEN to new ideas.I find your ideas quite interesting,and i think i'll look into buying the Mood cure book.Im not sure how "it"(the book) ties into addiction,after reading a few things on the mood cure site but... i have always felt that certain foods alter moods.I KNOW from personal experience that is true.A high protein,good fat,no sugar,no caffein diet works miracles!!!!! I know that first hand.Im very intersted in reading and learning from what others have found to be true for them.Whats FACT or not,well,in the end it doestn really matter,there will allows be nonbelievers towards EVERYTHING.But i am definintely getting the book and im sure i will get alot out of it.I am also very interested in anything you have to say about addiction and the different methods to battle this.Thanks so much!~KIM
Sharon:
I agree. Especially when he spelled his chosen profession incorrectly. To me, that lacks credibility. But I am a stickler to spelling, lol. That was a red flag for me.
Rachel
I agree. Especially when he spelled his chosen profession incorrectly. To me, that lacks credibility. But I am a stickler to spelling, lol. That was a red flag for me.
Rachel
Morning Dante......
I read your post the first time it came up and found it very interesting. I have also read others like this more in the way of heroin addiction, the therory the same none the less. I also read so much info on addiction the disease. Very scary stuff, and at times very confusing.....
And was the disease first, well maybe better like what disease was first, I think self medicating is a big thing for many and without treating the underlining cause things will not get better. I also really believe that the past haunts, and not worked out, and let go of, it will add fuel to most fires.....But then there are so many who loved the party of it all, the excitement, and to see how far they could push it all, what extreme they could find.....And then those caught up by and injury to find this filled a viod they didn't even know they had....and those just physically dependant, and will it trip over and become a mental addiction as well, and why now why the change.....It has to be within the brain, now altered from the drugs.......
My take on this from what I have seen on this board, read other places, and watched.....Well there isn't much balance at times. It is still all so extreme as evident here somedays with the infighting......
Addiction so presents itself as a disease, effects the whole family like one......And is so much like a terminal disease because if you don't get clean it will kill you in time, directly, in lifestyle, or indirectly by the damage done.....
Now here is where I question so much.....Ok so it is this disease, and in it someone abusing crank, or crack even, goes out and kills another.....It is the disease or was that in them to begin with, and the drugs brought it out. I can't really blame a drug for bad behavior, it could contribute but to blame it like that no. It doesn't work in my head......But then I could take some Vietnam vets who saw a hell beyond belief and came home to nothing but an insane country. Many in trouble right away, and in jail (death row for murder) some becoming addicts......Was it in them to begin with or put there through society......
Could addiction in a household make future addict, yes I think so, just like child abuse makes future abusers and girls who saw there moms treated like doormats go out and tend to marry men that treat them just the same......
This is so complicated, and in the end without any clear answers as to what works, and to who's way is better......It reflects society as a whole, as well trained from when we were little that there is a pill to cure all. So easily said oh you don't feel good well here there is a pill for that.........
It is a disease of self, or of society.......It is definately something within the brain, but what, and why him or her and not them.......It is a matter of timing as well...
And the thing that hit the most.....The labeling. I don't like the label, I don't like to see someone referred to as my alcoholic husband, my crack head wife. How disgusted that makes me. I wonder in reversed roles if someone would like to be labeled for maybe thier weight, or level of education, color of thier skin.....To judge another like that ugly, and then those fighting addiction look at themselves bad enough, do they need to have it all feed day in day out. It is a bit counterproductive.......and sad, so very sad to me....
And as always I question with the hardest one of all, can any of this just be simple, and common sense does that exsist anymore......
Have a great day, and thank you for sharing you thoughts, I still have lots of learing to do.......
Love,
Tina
I read your post the first time it came up and found it very interesting. I have also read others like this more in the way of heroin addiction, the therory the same none the less. I also read so much info on addiction the disease. Very scary stuff, and at times very confusing.....
And was the disease first, well maybe better like what disease was first, I think self medicating is a big thing for many and without treating the underlining cause things will not get better. I also really believe that the past haunts, and not worked out, and let go of, it will add fuel to most fires.....But then there are so many who loved the party of it all, the excitement, and to see how far they could push it all, what extreme they could find.....And then those caught up by and injury to find this filled a viod they didn't even know they had....and those just physically dependant, and will it trip over and become a mental addiction as well, and why now why the change.....It has to be within the brain, now altered from the drugs.......
My take on this from what I have seen on this board, read other places, and watched.....Well there isn't much balance at times. It is still all so extreme as evident here somedays with the infighting......
Addiction so presents itself as a disease, effects the whole family like one......And is so much like a terminal disease because if you don't get clean it will kill you in time, directly, in lifestyle, or indirectly by the damage done.....
Now here is where I question so much.....Ok so it is this disease, and in it someone abusing crank, or crack even, goes out and kills another.....It is the disease or was that in them to begin with, and the drugs brought it out. I can't really blame a drug for bad behavior, it could contribute but to blame it like that no. It doesn't work in my head......But then I could take some Vietnam vets who saw a hell beyond belief and came home to nothing but an insane country. Many in trouble right away, and in jail (death row for murder) some becoming addicts......Was it in them to begin with or put there through society......
Could addiction in a household make future addict, yes I think so, just like child abuse makes future abusers and girls who saw there moms treated like doormats go out and tend to marry men that treat them just the same......
This is so complicated, and in the end without any clear answers as to what works, and to who's way is better......It reflects society as a whole, as well trained from when we were little that there is a pill to cure all. So easily said oh you don't feel good well here there is a pill for that.........
It is a disease of self, or of society.......It is definately something within the brain, but what, and why him or her and not them.......It is a matter of timing as well...
And the thing that hit the most.....The labeling. I don't like the label, I don't like to see someone referred to as my alcoholic husband, my crack head wife. How disgusted that makes me. I wonder in reversed roles if someone would like to be labeled for maybe thier weight, or level of education, color of thier skin.....To judge another like that ugly, and then those fighting addiction look at themselves bad enough, do they need to have it all feed day in day out. It is a bit counterproductive.......and sad, so very sad to me....
And as always I question with the hardest one of all, can any of this just be simple, and common sense does that exsist anymore......
Have a great day, and thank you for sharing you thoughts, I still have lots of learing to do.......
Love,
Tina
Something that popped into my mind as I have read all the Dante posts....
Many of us know firsthand the lack of knowledge from the medical community regarding addiction to narcotics /alcohol. How many of us have in the past gone to our Dr. to get help at one time or another for our addiction only to be told that they cannot help us once we decide to get clean? Yes, they liberally gave us scripts yet turned a deaf ear when it came to help.
The fact is that Dr.'s are scientists in a sense. Rarely are they educated on the disease of addictions. Same with shrinks, how many of us have sought psychological help from "someone" who has a clear understanding of addiction and they simply "don't get it"?
While the 12 step program may not be for everyone as a "cure all", I can say with strong confidence that it is working in my life as long as I WORK IT. I've seen newcomers come into the rooms thinking that just by their presence, they will get better. These rooms are like hospitals and the "medicine" we get is drawing from the strength of those who have gone before us. I especially gain strength from those who have years and years of being clean and sober & live productive and responsible lives.
I am less than 2 weeks away from 6 months clean and sober and I have come a long way in working the steps (it's like therapy in many ways) with a sponsor who has gone before me. If a person chooses a 12 step program then they should be prepared to WORK (not a job). I see nothing wrong in 12 steppers seeking counseling /therapy (I have) as they progress. While I may not always agree with the medical community, I respect it.
I thank God everyday for continuing to restore my mind, my body and my soul!
Many of us know firsthand the lack of knowledge from the medical community regarding addiction to narcotics /alcohol. How many of us have in the past gone to our Dr. to get help at one time or another for our addiction only to be told that they cannot help us once we decide to get clean? Yes, they liberally gave us scripts yet turned a deaf ear when it came to help.
The fact is that Dr.'s are scientists in a sense. Rarely are they educated on the disease of addictions. Same with shrinks, how many of us have sought psychological help from "someone" who has a clear understanding of addiction and they simply "don't get it"?
While the 12 step program may not be for everyone as a "cure all", I can say with strong confidence that it is working in my life as long as I WORK IT. I've seen newcomers come into the rooms thinking that just by their presence, they will get better. These rooms are like hospitals and the "medicine" we get is drawing from the strength of those who have gone before us. I especially gain strength from those who have years and years of being clean and sober & live productive and responsible lives.
I am less than 2 weeks away from 6 months clean and sober and I have come a long way in working the steps (it's like therapy in many ways) with a sponsor who has gone before me. If a person chooses a 12 step program then they should be prepared to WORK (not a job). I see nothing wrong in 12 steppers seeking counseling /therapy (I have) as they progress. While I may not always agree with the medical community, I respect it.
I thank God everyday for continuing to restore my mind, my body and my soul!
Dante,
Hey How are you! It's stacey, Looks like people are going out of their way to follow you around. lol.
I ordered the book, haven't got it yet, but it's coming. Thanks for the advice. Email me if you ever can
Stacey
Hey How are you! It's stacey, Looks like people are going out of their way to follow you around. lol.
I ordered the book, haven't got it yet, but it's coming. Thanks for the advice. Email me if you ever can
Stacey
Dante,
lot of folks here seem to have missed your point. If you don't address the REASON for your addiction you will never solve the problem. It won't matter what program you work. You will continue to spin your wheels and never move on. I do disagree with your opinion on the 12 step program, and although I do not use it and probably never will, It has saved countless lives.
lot of folks here seem to have missed your point. If you don't address the REASON for your addiction you will never solve the problem. It won't matter what program you work. You will continue to spin your wheels and never move on. I do disagree with your opinion on the 12 step program, and although I do not use it and probably never will, It has saved countless lives.
