I posted earlier regarding my husband. We spoke this evening and he says he really wants to try tapering along with NA. He said he's not as worried about the physical wd as much as he is bothered by the psychological effects he has been going through. Describes feeling very panicky, says sometimes when people are talking to him its like he cant hear them, cant tell what theyre saying, then hell just sorta snap to it again, and other times he feels like noises are magnified. There was a dishwasher running today at work and he said it was like hearing a waterfall in his head and glass crashing very loudly? Made him want to drop to his knees. Mostly hes really paranoid, and his feelings are all mixed up - says he feels like hes going insane.
He wants to know what wd will be like, how long it will last. If he tried ct, how long would it take to detox? Is that too dangerous?
If he tries tapering, what can he expect over the next few days?
Lastly and most important: Someone gave him a bottle of Ultram, enough for him to taper down with. I have done some research on Tramadol and understand it carries a significant risk of seizures, which is magnified with any drug dependency. Is it possible for him to taper down using these? If so, what can he expect, and what sort of regimen should he follow? He took 3 of them earlier to deal with the wd.
Please help
Hi NovemberRain,
Well I went to your other thread and read your story......
And I am so sorry that you are seeing this. I know full well what you are going through and what you are seeing. I have sadly seen this myself......
The mental was hard to watch mine went nuts for a bit, and then was on edge for days after. All emotions seemed to be magnified, and so did sounds. The anixety drove mine to the ER thinking he was having a heart attack, thankfully he wasn't. The sleep deprivation is another thing that plays on them, they do not sleep for awhile, and it wears on everything.
The Ultram, well in my opinion it is not a good way to go.....Yes there is a risk of seizures using it for drug withdrawal. This is such a hard call, and I really think that your husband needs to go and get help, talk to a doctor he trusts and lay it all on the line. Clonidine would be a much better choice to help with wd at home. It will also help lessen some of the physical symptoms, which I really think help with the mental.......
Wd there is really no way to say what it will be. Everyone is different, as each drug is different. My understanding is that your husband is/was using heroin...... Usually opiate wd peaks in 3 days and lessens from there.The mental hangs on for far longer than the physical does. Kicking is really the easy part, staying clean the hardest.
You have been through a tough time, and what you are seeing is not fun to watch. It is horrible to sit back and see them dying, instead of living.
There are some things I really feel the need to tell you. You didn't cause this, you can't cure him and you have no control. Words I live by each day, they keep me sane on those not so pleasant ones.....
I know because I love my husband, there really is no reason not to, but I say this because it is important. You have to put yourself and your children first, you have to make sure that it stays that way. Thier safety depends on you. You can love him, support him, listen, hold his hand and comfort, but you have to let him take care of himself.....and he needs to do this on his own, and for himself, no pressure from anyone. He must want it more than anything. He has to be sick and tried of being sick and tired.
This is doable, he can get clean. It will not be easy but it is done everyday......
It will take time, sometimes a long time before things start looking normal again, whatever normal is. It will take patience on your part, and his to keep the relationship strong.
Please remember to take care of you, and be good to yourself....
There is always hope............
Love,
Tina
Well I went to your other thread and read your story......
And I am so sorry that you are seeing this. I know full well what you are going through and what you are seeing. I have sadly seen this myself......
The mental was hard to watch mine went nuts for a bit, and then was on edge for days after. All emotions seemed to be magnified, and so did sounds. The anixety drove mine to the ER thinking he was having a heart attack, thankfully he wasn't. The sleep deprivation is another thing that plays on them, they do not sleep for awhile, and it wears on everything.
The Ultram, well in my opinion it is not a good way to go.....Yes there is a risk of seizures using it for drug withdrawal. This is such a hard call, and I really think that your husband needs to go and get help, talk to a doctor he trusts and lay it all on the line. Clonidine would be a much better choice to help with wd at home. It will also help lessen some of the physical symptoms, which I really think help with the mental.......
Wd there is really no way to say what it will be. Everyone is different, as each drug is different. My understanding is that your husband is/was using heroin...... Usually opiate wd peaks in 3 days and lessens from there.The mental hangs on for far longer than the physical does. Kicking is really the easy part, staying clean the hardest.
You have been through a tough time, and what you are seeing is not fun to watch. It is horrible to sit back and see them dying, instead of living.
There are some things I really feel the need to tell you. You didn't cause this, you can't cure him and you have no control. Words I live by each day, they keep me sane on those not so pleasant ones.....
I know because I love my husband, there really is no reason not to, but I say this because it is important. You have to put yourself and your children first, you have to make sure that it stays that way. Thier safety depends on you. You can love him, support him, listen, hold his hand and comfort, but you have to let him take care of himself.....and he needs to do this on his own, and for himself, no pressure from anyone. He must want it more than anything. He has to be sick and tried of being sick and tired.
This is doable, he can get clean. It will not be easy but it is done everyday......
It will take time, sometimes a long time before things start looking normal again, whatever normal is. It will take patience on your part, and his to keep the relationship strong.
Please remember to take care of you, and be good to yourself....
There is always hope............
Love,
Tina
Switching to Ultram to do a taper is a bad idea. Ultram is contraindicated for opiate addicts, it has a huge list of adverse reactions and drug interactions, is addictive and at high doses produces seizures.
If he is going to taper I suggest tapering off the drug that he is abusing. Flush the Ultram.
If he is going to taper I suggest tapering off the drug that he is abusing. Flush the Ultram.
Misty- Thank you so very much. Your response seemed so heartfelt that when I read it I couldnt help but cry. This site really is a Godsend. Its amazing how I can come on here feeling so broken and with just a few words from someone I dont even know, I suddenly dont feel so tiny and alone in this. Thank you, really.
I appreciate your concern for me and my boys. I do have to admit that his addiction really has become mine, as I find myself reading, reading, reading, and worrying, all day and night. This site has taught me a lot about this disease and its devastating effects on those it comes in contact with. The people on this site have taught me a lot about caring for myself, which I havent done for quite some time. I would like to think that because of what I have come to know, I am a little bit stronger. However, our fight has just begun, and although I do keep in mind always that our health and safety comes first, I have to say that I am still very much focused on him. I know probably every person who has stood in my shoes has probably foolishly felt the same way - but somehow I feel like I am not ready yet to focus fully on myself. When to let go is a question I struggle with day and night. I dont yet feel like I am ready. Hes asked for my help and I feel obligated to give it a try. I know thats the enabler in me. I just feel like I have to give him the chance and stick by him as he tries to get clean. I dont have any expectations, I have learned to let go of those. In fact, I know that the chances of his recovery and much harder, his staying there, are not great. Beyond that, because of the damage this has done to our marriage, I have doubts that just becoming clean will be enough to fix us.
Right now, what I hope for most, is to see him become whole again. I just keep picturing those eyes - an image that I doubt I will ever forget.
My boys deserve their daddy, and he deserves his life. I promise, I too, will do some real soul searching about what I deserve as well. For today, though, I just want to try to help him.
I had spoken to his mom and sister on the day that he showed up at the house totally out of it. In fact, his mom video taped him in that state. His sister told me that it would be a good idea to show him what he looked like, how scary it was. Not that I expect that to change anything, but it sounded good. She had said that when his dad came back from his hunting trip, we would have an intervention. Of course, this idea apparently went out the window. His mom refuses to even believe he has a problem, even though both he and I have told her so.
The biggest problem is money. I am not exaggerating when I say that we have none. I mean none. And honestly, even if we did right now, it would be going toward Christmas presents for the boys.
So if he wants to taper, all he has is the ultram he has been given (by his mom by the way) He brought them home to me, she counted them before he left there and I when he got home. I am suppose to hold them and dole them out to him.
I just dont know when or how many.
This was his approach because the only other option is detox. Let me say that if it were up to me, detox would be the way to go.
I have my doubts that some of his excuses are valid, but I do believe him when he says that he is terrified of losing his job. He has a poor work history and was very luck to land the job that he now has - the first he has ever actually somewhat enjoyed - and the first non-labor. I know that he is going to be really miserable if he loses it - and more likely to relapse since hed be stuck doing low-end labor again. I would like to see him be able to avoid that. On the other hand, as I have told him, what I want most of all is to see him alive and well. Besides, what good is his job if he has spent his entire pay on pills before he even gets it? Or worse.
His boss pulled him aside last week and told him that this month would be really busy and hed really need him.
So his compromise was that he would try to detox on his own and then if need be he will go to an inpatient detox after Christmas. Ill be off of maternity leave at that point, and he thinks his boss would be more understanding if he waited til after the holidays. I dont like it, but I guess I have to let him try.
I guess he is now down to about 5 pills and can go about a day before hes really wd. It would be safer for him to taper from his doc, but he doesnt have any money to get them so the ultram is all he has access to.
Just how bad is the ultram? He has taken it on occasion before when it was all he could get his hands on, so it isnt new to him. Just not his doc.
If he can get vics or clonodine or percs or something, what kind of regimen should he use? How long does the wd normally take? He wanted to know if he could try to plan on starting his wd on a Friday and getting it over with by Monday. I told him I thought it took longer, but the detox center told him he would stay for 3-5 days, so he thought maybe that was it? It amazes me that he expects to be able to have so much control over this - like its a damn camping trip or something. But I thought I could give him an idea.
Misty - I am not familiar with your story. I will go look around and see what I can find, but if you stop back I would like to hear more from you.
Thanks again.
I appreciate your concern for me and my boys. I do have to admit that his addiction really has become mine, as I find myself reading, reading, reading, and worrying, all day and night. This site has taught me a lot about this disease and its devastating effects on those it comes in contact with. The people on this site have taught me a lot about caring for myself, which I havent done for quite some time. I would like to think that because of what I have come to know, I am a little bit stronger. However, our fight has just begun, and although I do keep in mind always that our health and safety comes first, I have to say that I am still very much focused on him. I know probably every person who has stood in my shoes has probably foolishly felt the same way - but somehow I feel like I am not ready yet to focus fully on myself. When to let go is a question I struggle with day and night. I dont yet feel like I am ready. Hes asked for my help and I feel obligated to give it a try. I know thats the enabler in me. I just feel like I have to give him the chance and stick by him as he tries to get clean. I dont have any expectations, I have learned to let go of those. In fact, I know that the chances of his recovery and much harder, his staying there, are not great. Beyond that, because of the damage this has done to our marriage, I have doubts that just becoming clean will be enough to fix us.
Right now, what I hope for most, is to see him become whole again. I just keep picturing those eyes - an image that I doubt I will ever forget.
My boys deserve their daddy, and he deserves his life. I promise, I too, will do some real soul searching about what I deserve as well. For today, though, I just want to try to help him.
I had spoken to his mom and sister on the day that he showed up at the house totally out of it. In fact, his mom video taped him in that state. His sister told me that it would be a good idea to show him what he looked like, how scary it was. Not that I expect that to change anything, but it sounded good. She had said that when his dad came back from his hunting trip, we would have an intervention. Of course, this idea apparently went out the window. His mom refuses to even believe he has a problem, even though both he and I have told her so.
The biggest problem is money. I am not exaggerating when I say that we have none. I mean none. And honestly, even if we did right now, it would be going toward Christmas presents for the boys.
So if he wants to taper, all he has is the ultram he has been given (by his mom by the way) He brought them home to me, she counted them before he left there and I when he got home. I am suppose to hold them and dole them out to him.
I just dont know when or how many.
This was his approach because the only other option is detox. Let me say that if it were up to me, detox would be the way to go.
I have my doubts that some of his excuses are valid, but I do believe him when he says that he is terrified of losing his job. He has a poor work history and was very luck to land the job that he now has - the first he has ever actually somewhat enjoyed - and the first non-labor. I know that he is going to be really miserable if he loses it - and more likely to relapse since hed be stuck doing low-end labor again. I would like to see him be able to avoid that. On the other hand, as I have told him, what I want most of all is to see him alive and well. Besides, what good is his job if he has spent his entire pay on pills before he even gets it? Or worse.
His boss pulled him aside last week and told him that this month would be really busy and hed really need him.
So his compromise was that he would try to detox on his own and then if need be he will go to an inpatient detox after Christmas. Ill be off of maternity leave at that point, and he thinks his boss would be more understanding if he waited til after the holidays. I dont like it, but I guess I have to let him try.
I guess he is now down to about 5 pills and can go about a day before hes really wd. It would be safer for him to taper from his doc, but he doesnt have any money to get them so the ultram is all he has access to.
Just how bad is the ultram? He has taken it on occasion before when it was all he could get his hands on, so it isnt new to him. Just not his doc.
If he can get vics or clonodine or percs or something, what kind of regimen should he use? How long does the wd normally take? He wanted to know if he could try to plan on starting his wd on a Friday and getting it over with by Monday. I told him I thought it took longer, but the detox center told him he would stay for 3-5 days, so he thought maybe that was it? It amazes me that he expects to be able to have so much control over this - like its a damn camping trip or something. But I thought I could give him an idea.
Misty - I am not familiar with your story. I will go look around and see what I can find, but if you stop back I would like to hear more from you.
Thanks again.
Morning November,
I hope that this morning is brighter......
Like you I read constantly and have really educated myself on addiction. We aren't really suppose to ask questions and to get wrapped up in thier side of things, but I had to know, understand so I can play fair. I don't want to make this harder for him. He makes it hard enough.
And in a lot of ways that is me, I question everything, never would I just say ok, you are right, they are right. I don't think life is that cut and dry......On of my defects maybe in a sense......
I came here a basket case, sure he would die, because that is what he looked like death. I saw wd, and it was a hell that haunted my nights for months after. I couldn't stand to see him in that much pain, it was an insanity I have never witnessed even close through my life......I knew the pills would be a problem, but then they were perscribed. When I reheard the word heroin. I went off the deep end. It was there before when he was very young......and the back it came a few years ago. I thought is was done and over when he stopped then. To come to learn that he stopped the heroin by upping the percocets, and was sick but then it more of an adjustment way not wd......When I found it was back again he was using up to 30 pills a day and many bags of heroin to just function.....That was all he could do toward the end of that run, just barely function. He stopped, relapsed, he stopped again, ct both times and then went on sub......With the sub he relapsed a few times, and he did again just recently. I hate heroin, and I just want to shake him he sees what he is doing to himself. That blindness I will never understand....
I stopped taking this personal a long time ago. I couldn't. I had my own clutter, my own problems that I wasn't dealing with because he became my focus. The worry took over everything......
Oh god I gained 20lbs in the last year, most of it I needed. I blame on the fact that I am not on a co-dependant diet anymore....It isn't that I didn't eat, and I still eat the same. I am just not worrying the weight away.
This is such a hard life to live, and so hard to watch those you love die each day. That is really what it is to me watching a slow death. And I know I will not, can not watch forever. Watching wd is my pain. That is the one thing I can't seperate myself from no matter how hard I try..... I know it will kill me inside.
I found a way that works for me, and of course I took the hard way, but I had to. We all find our way at different paces.....This is really easy, and then so hard. You have to find a way out of his madness, and even when you do and find that peace, you will still worry. It never goes away, whether you stay or go. It just can't I don't think because there are feelings attached to it all.
He has a hard road ahead of him. Addiction strips them of everything. They love nothing including themself, the drug becomes thier primary focus and most would do anything to get it, to end the pain, the demons. But then they know, I really think they do what they are doing to themselves, what they are to thier families.....and that feeds it. It becomes guilt, shame......and somewhere it twists into blame. This is just the nature of it all, without that guilt, that shame, the feelings of self worth, that they are nothing, will never be anything, the disease can not hold them. For as much as it is stopping the drugs it is changing the way they think. They have to see themselves as something other than an addict. If you went and searched out any of the insanity I have left on this board one thing I hate, one thing I make sure I jump in on is when anyone, our side, thier side is throwing around that addict label. Our side mostly. I hate to see is anyone describe the person they love as thier addict husband, thier addcit bf.....It is almost to me like they have lost all hope and only see and addict. I feel if we can't see them as anything other then that, how will they. Our feelings will project in how we talk to them, deal with them.
He can be whole again, it is up to him....and they have this way of talking themselves into how they are gonna do it. He needs to understand that he has no control, none at all over this disease. You need to make sure you understand that as well. The progression to get clean will be what he does, and how hard he makes it on himself. He may be making excuses, he may not. I don't think we ever really know what is in thier heads, and I don't ask. I let mine think as he wants, time always proves whether he was lying to himself, or really dedicated to making the change. Your husband will show the same. It isn't what they say but what they do to help themselves.
As far as withdrawal, well the worst might be over in 3 days but he still will be sick come Monday, and the days that follow. He won't be sleeping, eating to well. He will be weak, and his brain fogging.......If he stops on a Thursday night, then he will insure wd hits Friday,. the first 24 hours never seems as bad, but after that it gets worse and peeks at 72 hours, and goes from there.... If he wants this he will fight how he feels and get through each day, one at a time. It is important that he stays in the day, not the ones that passed, or those to come. It is one day at a time. He also needs some support, anything he can find, from those who understand exactly the pain he is feeling, what his head is screaming......
Weaning down is hard, because you are in a constant state of wd. There are never enough pills to do it right, and doing it to really not feel to much discomfort takes a long time. It is a slow process.
How bad is the Utram, well it depends on the person taking it. I think it is a nasty drug all the way around, the potential for problems is to high. It shouldn't be used for drug wd, but it is and I am not sure why. Some doctors perscribe it to take the edge off, from what I have seen on here it just makes things worse......
I remembering you writing that you understand that detox is more important than his job....that is so true. If he can't get clean then he won't have a job for to long. But on the flip side the job probably keeps him in the now, and as to what is important. It is a hard call and no matter what I tell you, what you want, he is gonna do it his way, and for his reasons and you will only know if it is a good thing or a bad thing when time has passed.......
I could write foever and not even scratch the surface somedays.....If you have time go search out some of cynical ones posts. She is an abundance of info on what we can do to help ourselves and put the focus where it should be.
I have more but am out of time this morning, the baby wants to play, and the girls all have friends sleeping over. They want food, gotta go be the cook, and waitress.......
You try to have a peaceful day, take sometime to do things you like, things that make you happy.....Enjoy the kids, thier fun as well.....
I will be back later and I am sure write some more.
Love,
Tina
I hope that this morning is brighter......
Like you I read constantly and have really educated myself on addiction. We aren't really suppose to ask questions and to get wrapped up in thier side of things, but I had to know, understand so I can play fair. I don't want to make this harder for him. He makes it hard enough.
And in a lot of ways that is me, I question everything, never would I just say ok, you are right, they are right. I don't think life is that cut and dry......On of my defects maybe in a sense......
I came here a basket case, sure he would die, because that is what he looked like death. I saw wd, and it was a hell that haunted my nights for months after. I couldn't stand to see him in that much pain, it was an insanity I have never witnessed even close through my life......I knew the pills would be a problem, but then they were perscribed. When I reheard the word heroin. I went off the deep end. It was there before when he was very young......and the back it came a few years ago. I thought is was done and over when he stopped then. To come to learn that he stopped the heroin by upping the percocets, and was sick but then it more of an adjustment way not wd......When I found it was back again he was using up to 30 pills a day and many bags of heroin to just function.....That was all he could do toward the end of that run, just barely function. He stopped, relapsed, he stopped again, ct both times and then went on sub......With the sub he relapsed a few times, and he did again just recently. I hate heroin, and I just want to shake him he sees what he is doing to himself. That blindness I will never understand....
I stopped taking this personal a long time ago. I couldn't. I had my own clutter, my own problems that I wasn't dealing with because he became my focus. The worry took over everything......
Oh god I gained 20lbs in the last year, most of it I needed. I blame on the fact that I am not on a co-dependant diet anymore....It isn't that I didn't eat, and I still eat the same. I am just not worrying the weight away.
This is such a hard life to live, and so hard to watch those you love die each day. That is really what it is to me watching a slow death. And I know I will not, can not watch forever. Watching wd is my pain. That is the one thing I can't seperate myself from no matter how hard I try..... I know it will kill me inside.
I found a way that works for me, and of course I took the hard way, but I had to. We all find our way at different paces.....This is really easy, and then so hard. You have to find a way out of his madness, and even when you do and find that peace, you will still worry. It never goes away, whether you stay or go. It just can't I don't think because there are feelings attached to it all.
He has a hard road ahead of him. Addiction strips them of everything. They love nothing including themself, the drug becomes thier primary focus and most would do anything to get it, to end the pain, the demons. But then they know, I really think they do what they are doing to themselves, what they are to thier families.....and that feeds it. It becomes guilt, shame......and somewhere it twists into blame. This is just the nature of it all, without that guilt, that shame, the feelings of self worth, that they are nothing, will never be anything, the disease can not hold them. For as much as it is stopping the drugs it is changing the way they think. They have to see themselves as something other than an addict. If you went and searched out any of the insanity I have left on this board one thing I hate, one thing I make sure I jump in on is when anyone, our side, thier side is throwing around that addict label. Our side mostly. I hate to see is anyone describe the person they love as thier addict husband, thier addcit bf.....It is almost to me like they have lost all hope and only see and addict. I feel if we can't see them as anything other then that, how will they. Our feelings will project in how we talk to them, deal with them.
He can be whole again, it is up to him....and they have this way of talking themselves into how they are gonna do it. He needs to understand that he has no control, none at all over this disease. You need to make sure you understand that as well. The progression to get clean will be what he does, and how hard he makes it on himself. He may be making excuses, he may not. I don't think we ever really know what is in thier heads, and I don't ask. I let mine think as he wants, time always proves whether he was lying to himself, or really dedicated to making the change. Your husband will show the same. It isn't what they say but what they do to help themselves.
As far as withdrawal, well the worst might be over in 3 days but he still will be sick come Monday, and the days that follow. He won't be sleeping, eating to well. He will be weak, and his brain fogging.......If he stops on a Thursday night, then he will insure wd hits Friday,. the first 24 hours never seems as bad, but after that it gets worse and peeks at 72 hours, and goes from there.... If he wants this he will fight how he feels and get through each day, one at a time. It is important that he stays in the day, not the ones that passed, or those to come. It is one day at a time. He also needs some support, anything he can find, from those who understand exactly the pain he is feeling, what his head is screaming......
Weaning down is hard, because you are in a constant state of wd. There are never enough pills to do it right, and doing it to really not feel to much discomfort takes a long time. It is a slow process.
How bad is the Utram, well it depends on the person taking it. I think it is a nasty drug all the way around, the potential for problems is to high. It shouldn't be used for drug wd, but it is and I am not sure why. Some doctors perscribe it to take the edge off, from what I have seen on here it just makes things worse......
I remembering you writing that you understand that detox is more important than his job....that is so true. If he can't get clean then he won't have a job for to long. But on the flip side the job probably keeps him in the now, and as to what is important. It is a hard call and no matter what I tell you, what you want, he is gonna do it his way, and for his reasons and you will only know if it is a good thing or a bad thing when time has passed.......
I could write foever and not even scratch the surface somedays.....If you have time go search out some of cynical ones posts. She is an abundance of info on what we can do to help ourselves and put the focus where it should be.
I have more but am out of time this morning, the baby wants to play, and the girls all have friends sleeping over. They want food, gotta go be the cook, and waitress.......
You try to have a peaceful day, take sometime to do things you like, things that make you happy.....Enjoy the kids, thier fun as well.....
I will be back later and I am sure write some more.
Love,
Tina
NovemebeRain
hello,I was just reading thought i would say hi....i did the ultram,ultracet,w/ding for two weeks .this is something i could not get hooked on.i was considerng going into a detox for one week and ultracets was what they were going to give to help with the w/ds..i decided to do it at home useing them.i did use them for about 2 weeks.they help with the w/ds ...i had to take about 3 to 4 at a time to help..After two weeks i quit useing them.....i stayed clean for over 2 months and went back to useing DOC.....I wish you and him the best of luck in his recovery ,,,crystal
hello,I was just reading thought i would say hi....i did the ultram,ultracet,w/ding for two weeks .this is something i could not get hooked on.i was considerng going into a detox for one week and ultracets was what they were going to give to help with the w/ds..i decided to do it at home useing them.i did use them for about 2 weeks.they help with the w/ds ...i had to take about 3 to 4 at a time to help..After two weeks i quit useing them.....i stayed clean for over 2 months and went back to useing DOC.....I wish you and him the best of luck in his recovery ,,,crystal
Dear Crystal I think that what you posted was not a GOOD thing!!! Just because you say you couldnt get hooked does not mean that they arent addictive.My goodness I went through 3 years of HELL from being on Ultram.Now Im not someone who wants any problems but PLEASE if your going to make a statement like you did #1 make sure you understand what your talking about & #2 please try to remember because it was that way for you that does NOT mean its the right,safe way.Thanks....mj
Mj
I didnt say that they were not addictive.She already knew that they were...Thats why she was asking about them.....I
was just saying that i used them for this short period of time to help with W/D...Excuse but,let me rephrase
what i posted....I took ultram for 2 weeks for w/ding and they help...
This would not be something i wouldnt use for my DOC........JUST WHAT I DID to get clean and help with the w/ds/////
crystal
I didnt say that they were not addictive.She already knew that they were...Thats why she was asking about them.....I
was just saying that i used them for this short period of time to help with W/D...Excuse but,let me rephrase
what i posted....I took ultram for 2 weeks for w/ding and they help...
This would not be something i wouldnt use for my DOC........JUST WHAT I DID to get clean and help with the w/ds/////
crystal
Well, he took the 3 ultram yesterday, had a few shots at his parents house,
and then came home. He brought the pills home with him, all of them. He wasnt up for very long once he got home, so he didnt take any more last night. This afternoon he came to me for more. I suggested a taper regimen that I found online. I wanted him to take the same three he took yesterday. He was getting really irritated with me, I could see that he didnt like me being in control of the pills, even though he was the one that said I should be the one to hold onto them and dole them out to him. I read on here from so many people that I should not give into him, cause he would find every excuse in the book to get more from me, and I should stay strong for him. I tried staying firm but it only pissed him off. I could see that he was panicking. I admit that I became frustrated too, and I just handed him the damn bottle. My mom was visiting and was in the other room waiting for me, and I just got mad and gave in. I counted the pills a little later, saw that he had taken 9 of them. He was just scared cause I had held out on him. I immediately regretted the whole scene - I am trying so hard, but its hard to remember that I am no longer dealing with my husband. Everything is a strategic move anymore, and making the wrong move or saying the wrong thing can really cause the s*** to hit the fan.
So a little while later he comes to me all worried - says he isnt feeling right, chest hurts, dizzy....
Im growing tired of these spells real fast.
Thankfully it passed. Then later this afternoon he went to his parents house. He came home drunk with a pop bottle full of jagermeister that his sister gave him. He drove home that way, bottle and all. Not in my car, thankfully. I almost let him talk me into taking it cause his has no heat, but I didnt.
The one thing I keep hearing about is the rock bottom that he needs to hit. The problem right now is that he has screwed up majorly, but its never him that it affects. Its me, and its our kids. None of the bills have been paid, but he doesnt care. Theyre all in my name but his car insurance - and even if they werent it wouldnt make a difference. He has spent ALL of his pay since I went on maternity leave - no money for bills, food, diapers, rent....worst of all, Christmas presents. He doesnt care. He knows I have always found a way to fix things in the past. Im not doing it for him - he can come and go but the boys and I are still living our lives and someone has to make that possible. Problem now is that I am dependent on him - which has never been the case before, and I dont know how to make it right this time.
Thats really taking its toll on me. As Christmas day draws near, I am the one now scouring the house for things to sell.
Thats what makes it all so bad though. Im in so much pain right now, and I cant say a word about it. I mentioned it today after he made some snide comment to me and he told me he couldnt be bothered with that. He said he needs to get better and me reminding him of the fact that he spent all our kids christmas present money is just going to drag him down. Its the first time I said anything, which trust me- has been eating me alive. And I know about the whole shame thing, which is why I have been biting my tongue - But my God, how much more unfair can this whole thing get?
Im starting to think I need an addiction so that I can put my head in the clouds and not be bothered with any consequences either.
Im sorry. I know thats unfair to say. I cant imagine what he is going through. I can only try to understand the hell, and I certainly wouldnt wish it on anyone.
But its just so screwed up.
If he were honestly trying, I wouldnt be so angered by it. But while I am taking care of our kids and tending to a newborn baby that he has barely held, and also trying to clean up this enormous mess he has made.....it makes it very hard to be supportive when he walks in the door drunk and smiling like a fool.
I think maybe its time for me to hand the pills over to his mother and let her parent him herself for once.
I dont think he wants this nearly as much as I do, and I am becoming so consumed in this that I can barely function, myself.
and then came home. He brought the pills home with him, all of them. He wasnt up for very long once he got home, so he didnt take any more last night. This afternoon he came to me for more. I suggested a taper regimen that I found online. I wanted him to take the same three he took yesterday. He was getting really irritated with me, I could see that he didnt like me being in control of the pills, even though he was the one that said I should be the one to hold onto them and dole them out to him. I read on here from so many people that I should not give into him, cause he would find every excuse in the book to get more from me, and I should stay strong for him. I tried staying firm but it only pissed him off. I could see that he was panicking. I admit that I became frustrated too, and I just handed him the damn bottle. My mom was visiting and was in the other room waiting for me, and I just got mad and gave in. I counted the pills a little later, saw that he had taken 9 of them. He was just scared cause I had held out on him. I immediately regretted the whole scene - I am trying so hard, but its hard to remember that I am no longer dealing with my husband. Everything is a strategic move anymore, and making the wrong move or saying the wrong thing can really cause the s*** to hit the fan.
So a little while later he comes to me all worried - says he isnt feeling right, chest hurts, dizzy....
Im growing tired of these spells real fast.
Thankfully it passed. Then later this afternoon he went to his parents house. He came home drunk with a pop bottle full of jagermeister that his sister gave him. He drove home that way, bottle and all. Not in my car, thankfully. I almost let him talk me into taking it cause his has no heat, but I didnt.
The one thing I keep hearing about is the rock bottom that he needs to hit. The problem right now is that he has screwed up majorly, but its never him that it affects. Its me, and its our kids. None of the bills have been paid, but he doesnt care. Theyre all in my name but his car insurance - and even if they werent it wouldnt make a difference. He has spent ALL of his pay since I went on maternity leave - no money for bills, food, diapers, rent....worst of all, Christmas presents. He doesnt care. He knows I have always found a way to fix things in the past. Im not doing it for him - he can come and go but the boys and I are still living our lives and someone has to make that possible. Problem now is that I am dependent on him - which has never been the case before, and I dont know how to make it right this time.
Thats really taking its toll on me. As Christmas day draws near, I am the one now scouring the house for things to sell.
Thats what makes it all so bad though. Im in so much pain right now, and I cant say a word about it. I mentioned it today after he made some snide comment to me and he told me he couldnt be bothered with that. He said he needs to get better and me reminding him of the fact that he spent all our kids christmas present money is just going to drag him down. Its the first time I said anything, which trust me- has been eating me alive. And I know about the whole shame thing, which is why I have been biting my tongue - But my God, how much more unfair can this whole thing get?
Im starting to think I need an addiction so that I can put my head in the clouds and not be bothered with any consequences either.
Im sorry. I know thats unfair to say. I cant imagine what he is going through. I can only try to understand the hell, and I certainly wouldnt wish it on anyone.
But its just so screwed up.
If he were honestly trying, I wouldnt be so angered by it. But while I am taking care of our kids and tending to a newborn baby that he has barely held, and also trying to clean up this enormous mess he has made.....it makes it very hard to be supportive when he walks in the door drunk and smiling like a fool.
I think maybe its time for me to hand the pills over to his mother and let her parent him herself for once.
I dont think he wants this nearly as much as I do, and I am becoming so consumed in this that I can barely function, myself.
Crystal I hope I didnt come off as being Witchy if so I am sorry,but I think its a bad thing to use one addictive thing to try & fix another.I have a real bad history with them so maybe I reacted by my gut feeling.
I just dont see what good can come from useing them at all....mj
I just dont see what good can come from useing them at all....mj
November,wow its odd for me to hear your side.See I did try to taper with thr tramadol,I had my Bf hold them.Well as soon as the poor guy would walk in the house,he'd go wash his hands & Id steal my own pills.How stupid was that stealing from myself?Hearing what your husband is doing with you makes me realize what I was like.If he is going to do this maybe it would be better if his mom holds them.It sounds like its just adding stress for you.I hope I dont upset you by saying this & I really dont know your husband,but to me it sounds like hes at a crossroad,not really sure if he wants to stop.It looks like hes tring to find an easy way out & there really isnt an easy way.I wish him the best of luck.....mj
Hi November,
I had some more to say but never got a chance to get back on last night....
I really feel for you especially with Christmas coming, please don't sell anything there is usually another way. Call around, local churches, Oh I am brain dead this morning, all the charity organizations in you area. Tell them you fell on hard times that you have children and wish they could have a nice Christmas. Ask for help to make this Christmas nice for your boys......
And your husband well holding his pills is a hard thing to do. It is something that you can't under an circumstance give in with. If you are going to try to do this again, he has to understand that you are helping him, this is what he wants and he has to keep him mouth shut and back off when it comes to them. I honestly don't think he is ready if he gave you all that grief yesterday, and damn he really has to lay off the booze it makes wd worse not better......
You can't clean up his mess. I know how hard this is but you have to let him take care of his s***. Don't cover for him, don't smooth things over. There are reprecussions with this disease that he has to face. He has to take responsibility for his behavior, and be called on it if it is bad. I do understand a bit of him being pissed if you say anything about Christmas and that he blew all the money. It could be anything to him, it is definately what he sees through his eyes, and remember what he see is not real, it is clouded, tainted. There really can't be any badgering, and never ask why because honestly they do not know. It can't be processed in thier heads when they are using. Oh god the line is so thin, it is a balance between living for you, and not making it easy for him to stay stuck in hell. You have to set up some boundaries, with him. This is not an easy but can be done......All money in bank where it should go, he has children he must be responsible for. No driving with the kids in the car if he is high. No using in the house, no drugs in the house.....I mean you 2 really have to set up some rules, and you have to decide what you will and will not tolerate. You do not have to hide your feelings, you are allowed to be angry, just play fair and try not to throw things in his face, the blame game doesn't work. But you can tell him you are upset, disappointed, sad for him, hurting inside. I think they know but you are entitled to your feelings just as he is.
Bottom comes in many forms, some lose everything before they truely see. If he has had everyone helping him, cleaning up his mess it will be harder for him to hit his. It is sad but there are 3 things that will happen depending largely on him, and sometimes on us one this side of things. It is either they get clean, they end up in jail, or they die......And there are those out thier who enable thier loved ones to death. It is so sad. I am sorry but this is the reality faced with this disease.
Are you doing this alone, seems his parents know, sometimes they are the greatest enablers. Please make sure that they don't give him money, that they call you and ask if he gives them a line that bills need to be paid. Please make sure everyone who knows is on the same page and doing their best to make sure they don't make it easy on him to use. I think the pills should be out of the house. Right not you have enough to deal with and being the holder of them pills complicates things.
You have to push each day to take yourself out of it all, and you have to stand by what you say, set up as boundaries. If he really wants this he will understand and fight hard to save himself. If he isn't ready you will know. It will show in his actions.
He doesn't really seem like he is ready. Getting drunk is just a switch to something else to get him where he thinks he need to go to cope. If he was ready thier would be nothing but what he orginally wanted to do to stop, and then wean off with the ultram. Which is not the best route to go.......There are inpatient rehabs that are state funded. I really think he needs to go in. It will be the best thing, and give him the best chance, but in all of this nothing works, nothing at all until they are ready to make that change. And he has to want this for him, not you, not the kids. It has to be just for him. Everything else will fall into place when he makes that true commitment for himself.
Please take care of you, of your children. try not to worry. I know how hard it is but everything does tend to work itself out.
Sending hugs......
Love,
Tina
Morning MJ.....
I remember when you came on and talked of stealing back your pills. You've come a long way baby. I am so proud of you.
I owe you an email.....
Love Yah!
I had some more to say but never got a chance to get back on last night....
I really feel for you especially with Christmas coming, please don't sell anything there is usually another way. Call around, local churches, Oh I am brain dead this morning, all the charity organizations in you area. Tell them you fell on hard times that you have children and wish they could have a nice Christmas. Ask for help to make this Christmas nice for your boys......
And your husband well holding his pills is a hard thing to do. It is something that you can't under an circumstance give in with. If you are going to try to do this again, he has to understand that you are helping him, this is what he wants and he has to keep him mouth shut and back off when it comes to them. I honestly don't think he is ready if he gave you all that grief yesterday, and damn he really has to lay off the booze it makes wd worse not better......
You can't clean up his mess. I know how hard this is but you have to let him take care of his s***. Don't cover for him, don't smooth things over. There are reprecussions with this disease that he has to face. He has to take responsibility for his behavior, and be called on it if it is bad. I do understand a bit of him being pissed if you say anything about Christmas and that he blew all the money. It could be anything to him, it is definately what he sees through his eyes, and remember what he see is not real, it is clouded, tainted. There really can't be any badgering, and never ask why because honestly they do not know. It can't be processed in thier heads when they are using. Oh god the line is so thin, it is a balance between living for you, and not making it easy for him to stay stuck in hell. You have to set up some boundaries, with him. This is not an easy but can be done......All money in bank where it should go, he has children he must be responsible for. No driving with the kids in the car if he is high. No using in the house, no drugs in the house.....I mean you 2 really have to set up some rules, and you have to decide what you will and will not tolerate. You do not have to hide your feelings, you are allowed to be angry, just play fair and try not to throw things in his face, the blame game doesn't work. But you can tell him you are upset, disappointed, sad for him, hurting inside. I think they know but you are entitled to your feelings just as he is.
Bottom comes in many forms, some lose everything before they truely see. If he has had everyone helping him, cleaning up his mess it will be harder for him to hit his. It is sad but there are 3 things that will happen depending largely on him, and sometimes on us one this side of things. It is either they get clean, they end up in jail, or they die......And there are those out thier who enable thier loved ones to death. It is so sad. I am sorry but this is the reality faced with this disease.
Are you doing this alone, seems his parents know, sometimes they are the greatest enablers. Please make sure that they don't give him money, that they call you and ask if he gives them a line that bills need to be paid. Please make sure everyone who knows is on the same page and doing their best to make sure they don't make it easy on him to use. I think the pills should be out of the house. Right not you have enough to deal with and being the holder of them pills complicates things.
You have to push each day to take yourself out of it all, and you have to stand by what you say, set up as boundaries. If he really wants this he will understand and fight hard to save himself. If he isn't ready you will know. It will show in his actions.
He doesn't really seem like he is ready. Getting drunk is just a switch to something else to get him where he thinks he need to go to cope. If he was ready thier would be nothing but what he orginally wanted to do to stop, and then wean off with the ultram. Which is not the best route to go.......There are inpatient rehabs that are state funded. I really think he needs to go in. It will be the best thing, and give him the best chance, but in all of this nothing works, nothing at all until they are ready to make that change. And he has to want this for him, not you, not the kids. It has to be just for him. Everything else will fall into place when he makes that true commitment for himself.
Please take care of you, of your children. try not to worry. I know how hard it is but everything does tend to work itself out.
Sending hugs......
Love,
Tina
Morning MJ.....
I remember when you came on and talked of stealing back your pills. You've come a long way baby. I am so proud of you.
I owe you an email.....
Love Yah!
Mj,
i knew they were addictive and should have add this to my post.I know you have been through alot with these pills.i dont blame you for saying what you said.But,i take sub. and its addictive too.Some use one thing to help get off another.She was asking i was saying this is what i did to help me through.....i didnt take it wrong way..I know yours is just as bad as my addication.....Im not compareing one or the other.......We all live through hell with this problem.take care,crystal
i knew they were addictive and should have add this to my post.I know you have been through alot with these pills.i dont blame you for saying what you said.But,i take sub. and its addictive too.Some use one thing to help get off another.She was asking i was saying this is what i did to help me through.....i didnt take it wrong way..I know yours is just as bad as my addication.....Im not compareing one or the other.......We all live through hell with this problem.take care,crystal
Crystal,In all fairness I am on Suboxone too.My Dr wants to keep me on it long term,not only for addictive issues but also pain issues.The reason I started the Sub was because of the tramadol.I just couldnt stop them no matter what I did.I will say Im so glad you didnt have a hard time with them & that you are doing well.Like I said I may of just got all defencive because of my past with them.Anyways so glad you understood & I thank you.FYI in Jan it will be a full year that the tramadol lost its hold on me...mj
For what it's worth, I also have had addiction to Tramadol on and off for the last 18 months. I've had kidney stones 4 times before and was given Vicodin each time, and the first time I ever truly became dependent to the point of addiction was the one time I was given Ultram. To each their own I guess, but I just don't see how taking one potentially addictive drug to try to help taper off of another is much help.
I do know that tramadol is a somewhat debated topic in terms of addictiveness. I was at my doctor's office this morning, in fact, debating this with my dr. He just kept telling me that tramadol's "claim to fame" is that it isn't addictive. And I'm sitting here staring at him while he's telling me this....hey doc? Uh, I'm sitting here in front of you, addicted to this stuff. So, I'd just say be very careful about subbing one pill for another, especially since the seizure risk is there with the tramadol (I've had 6 seizures due to these pills in the last year).
I do know that tramadol is a somewhat debated topic in terms of addictiveness. I was at my doctor's office this morning, in fact, debating this with my dr. He just kept telling me that tramadol's "claim to fame" is that it isn't addictive. And I'm sitting here staring at him while he's telling me this....hey doc? Uh, I'm sitting here in front of you, addicted to this stuff. So, I'd just say be very careful about subbing one pill for another, especially since the seizure risk is there with the tramadol (I've had 6 seizures due to these pills in the last year).
JD I was wondering how your doing?I know the evils of tramadol as you know.If I can be of any help even if you just need to vent i understand
Hey Molly...you know, I'm still doing OK. I'm doing whatever I can to get moving around. Went to the MD this morning, took the rest of the day off so I did some Xmas shopping, took my dog for a couple miles of a walk, and came home and made dinner for my sick wife. So all in all, doing pretty well. It's when I sit for a while that I start to feel that absence where the pills have been.
Other thing is I'm so amazed at how much those pills suppress your appetite while you're on them. I've been so damn hungry the last 2 days, I'm eating like an offensive lineman right now at meals. (to give you perspective, I'm 6'3 and somewhere around 180-185) Trying to cut out the snacks but still....
My doctor wasn't much help to me today. He's a good guy and is qualified in a lot of fields, but this isn't one of them. I tried to open up some dialogue today and really have a discussion with him, but he wasn't really having it. I felt like I was basically getting the "corporate" answer from him on most things. I'm going to see my psychologist later this week, so that should be more productive.
In any case, today is day #7 for me of being off of these pills for the last time. I hope the rest of you out there are doing well....hang in there!
Other thing is I'm so amazed at how much those pills suppress your appetite while you're on them. I've been so damn hungry the last 2 days, I'm eating like an offensive lineman right now at meals. (to give you perspective, I'm 6'3 and somewhere around 180-185) Trying to cut out the snacks but still....
My doctor wasn't much help to me today. He's a good guy and is qualified in a lot of fields, but this isn't one of them. I tried to open up some dialogue today and really have a discussion with him, but he wasn't really having it. I felt like I was basically getting the "corporate" answer from him on most things. I'm going to see my psychologist later this week, so that should be more productive.
In any case, today is day #7 for me of being off of these pills for the last time. I hope the rest of you out there are doing well....hang in there!
Ummm, What is so bad about Ultram--it is a non-narcotic painkiller, and I myself have taken them than stopped without any cravings. They are not anything like narcotics. So how could this be?
Just wondering,
Blah
Just wondering,
Blah
Rain,
Please take the advice of Molly, Silent Partner, and the others who advised you that taking ultram to help withdraw from an opiate is a bad idea. Molly knows by experience and she's one smart cookie too. And Sean, well he is one of the smartest men I've had the pleasure to talk to on here. Believe me his advice is right on the money.
Good luck to you and please stay in touch.
God bless,
Sharon
Please take the advice of Molly, Silent Partner, and the others who advised you that taking ultram to help withdraw from an opiate is a bad idea. Molly knows by experience and she's one smart cookie too. And Sean, well he is one of the smartest men I've had the pleasure to talk to on here. Believe me his advice is right on the money.
Good luck to you and please stay in touch.
God bless,
Sharon
Blah,
Ultram (Tramadol, Tramal) is a non-opiate analgesic for mild to strong pain. It is not an opiate, but it works in almost the exact same way. It virtually mimics opiates and binds to opiate receptors in the brain. In Australia it is classified as Section 4 (a) narcotic analgesic.
Now, below I am posting some relevant sections of MIMS, which are prescribing guidelines for health professionals. These excerpts show that Ultram is not supposed to be used by opiate addicts, in opiate withdrawals, has nasty adverse effects and lots of problematic drug interactions:
----------
Tramadol/Ultram/Tramal
Contraindications: Intoxication with alcohol, hypnotics, analgesics, opioids, psychotropics; MAOIs (concurrent or in the previous 14 days); not for use in narcotic withdrawal; opioid sensitivity ; epilepsy (uncontrolled); pregnancy
Precautions: Galactose intolerance, Lapp lactase deficiency, glucose/ galactose malabsorption (Tramal SR); acute abdominal conditions; risk of respiratory depression, dependence, abuse ; raised intracranial pressure, head trauma, shock, decr consciousness; renal, hepatic impairment; seizure risk; light anaesthesia; long-term use; elderly; labour, lactation, children
Adverse Reactions: Seizures; anaphylactoid reactions; GI upset; CNS disturbances incl dizziness; autonomic nervous effects incl sedation; sweating; tolerance; others
Drug Interactions: MAOIs (see Contra); CNS depressants incl anaesthetics, alcohol; mixed opiate agonists/ antagonists eg buprenorphine, pentazocine; drugs which lower seizure threshold eg SSRIs, TCAs, antipsychotics; carbamazepine; quinidine; ketoconazole, erythromycin; drugs that incr serotonin; coumarin derivatives
Ultram (Tramadol, Tramal) is a non-opiate analgesic for mild to strong pain. It is not an opiate, but it works in almost the exact same way. It virtually mimics opiates and binds to opiate receptors in the brain. In Australia it is classified as Section 4 (a) narcotic analgesic.
Now, below I am posting some relevant sections of MIMS, which are prescribing guidelines for health professionals. These excerpts show that Ultram is not supposed to be used by opiate addicts, in opiate withdrawals, has nasty adverse effects and lots of problematic drug interactions:
----------
Tramadol/Ultram/Tramal
Contraindications: Intoxication with alcohol, hypnotics, analgesics, opioids, psychotropics; MAOIs (concurrent or in the previous 14 days); not for use in narcotic withdrawal; opioid sensitivity ; epilepsy (uncontrolled); pregnancy
Precautions: Galactose intolerance, Lapp lactase deficiency, glucose/ galactose malabsorption (Tramal SR); acute abdominal conditions; risk of respiratory depression, dependence, abuse ; raised intracranial pressure, head trauma, shock, decr consciousness; renal, hepatic impairment; seizure risk; light anaesthesia; long-term use; elderly; labour, lactation, children
Adverse Reactions: Seizures; anaphylactoid reactions; GI upset; CNS disturbances incl dizziness; autonomic nervous effects incl sedation; sweating; tolerance; others
Drug Interactions: MAOIs (see Contra); CNS depressants incl anaesthetics, alcohol; mixed opiate agonists/ antagonists eg buprenorphine, pentazocine; drugs which lower seizure threshold eg SSRIs, TCAs, antipsychotics; carbamazepine; quinidine; ketoconazole, erythromycin; drugs that incr serotonin; coumarin derivatives
