Okay, so at yesterday's meeting a young man comes in and sits--obviously doesn't want to be there--and he's got a paper that needs to be signed. Court imposed meetings, apparently. The meeting @ 1100 gets alot of transient traffic from people that are working, lots of mandated attendees, etc., and it is an OPEN meeting. Lots of new faces all the time-and alot of them don't ever come back--at least not in 114 days.
Anyway, so there's a young man that introduces himself with his name and says that he's a 'social drinker' rather than the normal 'alcoholic' that we hear going around the room. Now, to me, that's fine. Not everyone IS an alcoholic--at least, not at first! It's a self-realization and certainly not something a young person of, say, young twenties is ready to admit. Hell, we all KNEW we had more time to develop our drinking skills--being an alcoholic would have put a serious damper on our social (party) lives. Let's face it: We alcoholics tend to need some time to f***-up our lives before we are willing to admit it. We ALL have different "bottoms" and our "scales" are all different. And all the same.
ANY WAY, so there were a couple old-timers that actually were making FUN of the kid. "I was a social drinker once," and "I'm what he said. Or WAS" stuff like that. Just struck me as very judgemental and in bad form--and totally out of character for a normal meeting. Must've just been a bad day, huh? Anyway, so it has been nagging at me and I thought I'd bring it up in today's meeting. I think if someone had said that to me my first day I'd have shown them EXACTLY how an alcoholic can behave!
Wow, yeah, thats not fair, I WAS like that once, as u said as time goes by we are capable of worsening. God if he shared that must have taken guts for a start off! Those people who were "bitchy" had NO RIGHT! I'm sure they didnt admit they were a "social drinker" at that particular time in their lives hey? That goes against the fellowship. We are here to help NOT to judge!! does that make those people "better" than him just because they have reached their bottom and are possibly recovering? I dont think so, he just isnt quite there yet in relation to acceptance, step 1. Glad u will bring it up its needs to be......
Flojo x
Flojo x
Hey!
This isn't my usual hang out because, at the moment I'm recovering from opiates. (I'm not an alcoholic anymore. HA, HA!) I saw your post and wanted to reply. You're right. No matter if the kid was in the middle of a 4 day binge, those people shouldn't have said that. That attitude might make such an impression on the kid that even if he ever does realize he needs help, the last place he'd want to come is to an AA meeting. You said the kid had his paper to be signed. The old timers might have thinking about "The only requirement of AA membership is the desire to stop drinking". Maybe they sensed that the kid isn't ready yet. Maybe the manditory meetings will open his eyes and he will BECOME ready. Maybe he IS a "social drinker" and was just stupid enough to get in trouble enough times to be sent to AA. Whatever the case may be...It's not for other members to judge his circumstances or intentions. They should have simply said, "Glad you're here, keep coming back". Hate to say it but, the attitudes of some AA/NA members is why I don't go. Ummm....to drive your point home, you can tell them I said that!
Good for you for being diligent in your program and thanks for letting me share here!
~Callie~
This isn't my usual hang out because, at the moment I'm recovering from opiates. (I'm not an alcoholic anymore. HA, HA!) I saw your post and wanted to reply. You're right. No matter if the kid was in the middle of a 4 day binge, those people shouldn't have said that. That attitude might make such an impression on the kid that even if he ever does realize he needs help, the last place he'd want to come is to an AA meeting. You said the kid had his paper to be signed. The old timers might have thinking about "The only requirement of AA membership is the desire to stop drinking". Maybe they sensed that the kid isn't ready yet. Maybe the manditory meetings will open his eyes and he will BECOME ready. Maybe he IS a "social drinker" and was just stupid enough to get in trouble enough times to be sent to AA. Whatever the case may be...It's not for other members to judge his circumstances or intentions. They should have simply said, "Glad you're here, keep coming back". Hate to say it but, the attitudes of some AA/NA members is why I don't go. Ummm....to drive your point home, you can tell them I said that!
Good for you for being diligent in your program and thanks for letting me share here!
~Callie~
Hi SKG...
Hmm, I've been thinking about this post for a bit...Where I am at, I know sometimes that oldtimers come off as "hardcore" or blunt but when I went into AA and was openminded and willing, and I listened to them share their ESH, I can tell that some of them got sober and stayed sober for a long time by the no nonsense approach...either you want to quit drinking and you do as suggest or you don't and relapse is a huge possibility...What I know today is it takes all kinds to make a meeting and I don't take things so personally today...Denial can be as deadly as being active in the disease and maybe they were just trying to piss him off so he'd think about it?
Most people that can socially can have a drink here or there don't get into trouble and get appointed by the courts to AA....maybe he's very early in his disease but I think the court sending him to meetings is a HUGE red flag of more to come...
Pray to your HP, SKG and ask for help with this one...maybe you could reach your hand out to this newcomer and help his unease...
xoxo
Stacey
Hmm, I've been thinking about this post for a bit...Where I am at, I know sometimes that oldtimers come off as "hardcore" or blunt but when I went into AA and was openminded and willing, and I listened to them share their ESH, I can tell that some of them got sober and stayed sober for a long time by the no nonsense approach...either you want to quit drinking and you do as suggest or you don't and relapse is a huge possibility...What I know today is it takes all kinds to make a meeting and I don't take things so personally today...Denial can be as deadly as being active in the disease and maybe they were just trying to piss him off so he'd think about it?
| QUOTE |
| Maybe he IS a "social drinker" and was just stupid enough to get in trouble enough times to be sent to AA. |
Pray to your HP, SKG and ask for help with this one...maybe you could reach your hand out to this newcomer and help his unease...
xoxo
Stacey
Thanks for the variety of opinions. Here's where *I* stand: If the primary purpose of AA is to help other alcoholics to recover, then being judgemental and directive is going directly against the principles of the 12 Steps, isn't it? I mean, who are we to judge someone else's recovery unless they ask? I know if they'd said that crap on MY first couple times in there I'd have said, "f*** you very much, arselekkers, see you in Hell," and left. We're supposed to be compassionate and caring and non-judgemental. At least, that's what's kept me involved.
I mentioned it to a person that was there yesterday and is about 2 years sober--heavily involved in the Group Conscience and regional crap. I asked if he didn't think that it was over the top and he understands--may bring it up to some of the other 'members' who frequent alot. It just snapped my rope, that's all.
I'm guessing the kid never comes back. Shame on the old farts if that's the case, that's all. I never responded well to head slaps...
I mentioned it to a person that was there yesterday and is about 2 years sober--heavily involved in the Group Conscience and regional crap. I asked if he didn't think that it was over the top and he understands--may bring it up to some of the other 'members' who frequent alot. It just snapped my rope, that's all.
I'm guessing the kid never comes back. Shame on the old farts if that's the case, that's all. I never responded well to head slaps...
Gidday Everyone
Oldtimers share what they see most of the time, precise and straight and they dont pretty the sharing up as they came from an era where you were either kicked in the a@s or praised, how many shared ok to this kid?
I would of said the same to the kid but in a way that was humourous but serious and i would of said to him keep checking the things on your list of what a social drinker is and what an alky is and one day they may read the same.
In our town the young kids that are always in the sh#t dont acknowledge anyone and are quick to tell you to get F,d and i was talking to a group and all they cared about was who scored the highest in there drug test.....so i said to them come back when it stops being fun and you have been to at least 3 of your mates funerals and stolen money from your mum to support your habit.
Remember this topic in the back of all our minds as our years god willing in sobriety increase and we constantly see people coming and going never to be seen again, or with the attitude of youth etc.
Also as many of you have probably seen not everyone in AA is well, but there is a message to be learnt from everyone who shares, no matter what text it takes.
I hope the young dude finds AA later cause as Stace said his denial is bigger than his rap sheet at the moment..
light and love Zac
HaHa i just posted and saw youre post Skg, the other thing i forgot to post was there is a fine line to where judging begins and ends and resentment begins also a guy who is 28 years sober only got sober because he was leaving a meeting and someone said to him you will never make it.....now was that person judgemental or very cunning at reading people, dunno dont care the guys sober
light and love Zac
Oldtimers share what they see most of the time, precise and straight and they dont pretty the sharing up as they came from an era where you were either kicked in the a@s or praised, how many shared ok to this kid?
I would of said the same to the kid but in a way that was humourous but serious and i would of said to him keep checking the things on your list of what a social drinker is and what an alky is and one day they may read the same.
In our town the young kids that are always in the sh#t dont acknowledge anyone and are quick to tell you to get F,d and i was talking to a group and all they cared about was who scored the highest in there drug test.....so i said to them come back when it stops being fun and you have been to at least 3 of your mates funerals and stolen money from your mum to support your habit.
Remember this topic in the back of all our minds as our years god willing in sobriety increase and we constantly see people coming and going never to be seen again, or with the attitude of youth etc.
Also as many of you have probably seen not everyone in AA is well, but there is a message to be learnt from everyone who shares, no matter what text it takes.
I hope the young dude finds AA later cause as Stace said his denial is bigger than his rap sheet at the moment..
light and love Zac
HaHa i just posted and saw youre post Skg, the other thing i forgot to post was there is a fine line to where judging begins and ends and resentment begins also a guy who is 28 years sober only got sober because he was leaving a meeting and someone said to him you will never make it.....now was that person judgemental or very cunning at reading people, dunno dont care the guys sober
light and love Zac
I'll grant you that maybe it works, maybe it don't, but the 28 year fella was the only guy that heard it (until he shared it with you). Not the rest of the room--including other early attendees and newcomers. Granted, it was an Open Meeting, but still.
I'll stand down. Just flew all over me--I know I can't control it nor do I particularly care to anymore. I'll let you know if the kid comes back, too!
I'll stand down. Just flew all over me--I know I can't control it nor do I particularly care to anymore. I'll let you know if the kid comes back, too!
Powerlessness hits again...I know for me, the only thing I can change is me...
I do know SKG, that I try to be kind and compassionate to every newcomer and I always try to welcome them & hold my hand out but I do accept that I am powerless over others...
I think Zac hit it on the head
And hopefully the newcomers want it bad enough that they focus on the postives and people that are compassionate and leave the rest...
Smooches....
I do know SKG, that I try to be kind and compassionate to every newcomer and I always try to welcome them & hold my hand out but I do accept that I am powerless over others...
I think Zac hit it on the head
| QUOTE |
| Also as many of you have probably seen not everyone in AA is well, but there is a message to be learnt from everyone who shares, no matter what text it takes. |
And hopefully the newcomers want it bad enough that they focus on the postives and people that are compassionate and leave the rest...
Smooches....
My Sponsor says it takes all kinds, and believe me I've seen all kinds at meetings...some of our oldtimers come off as harsh, but some have close to 50 years of sobriety and tell it like it is....they don't coddle anyone, they're old style AA, pre-rehabs...if this kid is an alcoholic he can only answer that for himself...but I rarely see anyone in the rooms that doesn't need to stop drinking or isn't headed toward a life full of misery because of alcohol and/or drugs....I've been around the rooms for 20+ years, it took me 20 years to get one year, I was just a "heavy" drinker....if the kid is social drinker, hmm, he won't need AA, if not he'll go out and party and it will either work for him or not, but luckily the doors of AA will always be open...I was told I needed to go to any length if I wanted to get and stay sober and believe me, some of the oldtimers have given me a piece of their mind after I've shared and for that I am grateful....sh*% I took crap my drug dealer, so what's a little crap being slung at me in AA, love those oldtimers!
BUMP FOR FLOJO
I guess I was bit of a odd turkey with this.I knew at the ripe age of 21 I was an alcoholic.Although I had also been using drugs, the alcohol was what apparent got me into skirmishes with the law,uable to keep employment,homeless,anti-social behavior etc.I believed I could control the drugs.That was my downfall.
I thought if I could just stay away from booze,eventualy I would find the right mix of drugs to keep me somewhat sane.I was even a body builder and a health nut.I went to a sports physician doctor who liberally hande me out Percocet,Vicodin and any other complaint I had.
I'm not one these 12 steppers who believes everyone who walks through the doors off AA is an alcoholic.I don't think everything is black and white,
Being ridiculed are made fun of is down right rude.I don't care what kind of spin you wnat to put on it.You share your ESP of what it was like for you,that doesn't mean chastises someone because they may not be there yet.Chences are that kind of reaction will turn them off.
I thought if I could just stay away from booze,eventualy I would find the right mix of drugs to keep me somewhat sane.I was even a body builder and a health nut.I went to a sports physician doctor who liberally hande me out Percocet,Vicodin and any other complaint I had.
I'm not one these 12 steppers who believes everyone who walks through the doors off AA is an alcoholic.I don't think everything is black and white,
Being ridiculed are made fun of is down right rude.I don't care what kind of spin you wnat to put on it.You share your ESP of what it was like for you,that doesn't mean chastises someone because they may not be there yet.Chences are that kind of reaction will turn them off.
