The last two F2F meetings I went to (yesterday and today) there were a couple folks that apparently felt the need to yadder on for far too long about themselves--so not everyone got to share. For some reason, I find this annoying. Of course, *I* was one of the non-yadderers, and didn't get to share, but I'm okay. I'm there to listen--not carry on about me. Lord certainly knows I can talk about myself!
Y'all are getting that vibe too, I'll bet...
:)
peaceness.
Hi ya Skg...
That happens at some of the meetings I attend and when I start to get irritated, I remember to pray and I was told sometimes my HP, God wants me to listen and if I don't get to share then it wasn't meant to be...for me, this is part of learning to be kind, loving & tolerant towards others and so I try to just remember, my time to share will come...
I love reading your posts...You sound so good and keep up the positive attitude as it looks good on you!!
xoxo
Stacey
That happens at some of the meetings I attend and when I start to get irritated, I remember to pray and I was told sometimes my HP, God wants me to listen and if I don't get to share then it wasn't meant to be...for me, this is part of learning to be kind, loving & tolerant towards others and so I try to just remember, my time to share will come...
I love reading your posts...You sound so good and keep up the positive attitude as it looks good on you!!
xoxo
Stacey
I was feling indecisive about contributing--I never know whether I should or not--at yesterday's meeting. Then, low and behumbled (or behold), the topic was the "Daily Reflection" from the 10th--about levitation? Now I GOT SOME CONTENT regarding lack of patience, lemme tell ya! I think it's waht ignites all the other character defects I own and they all show their raging asses when I do loose my cool.
Hard to believe?
Well, the whole example about poor drivers on the road is me. I'm the guy that you piss off when you don't pay attention or drive in the left lane (except in England-ville), or yap on the cell, or cut off, or speed by and then slow down in front of, or drive excessively fast and endanger, or intentionally slow down in front of, or just basically do anything to piss me off! Yep. That's me. I'll yell at you, gesture at you, endanger you, etc. Yep. That guy!
Okay, so not as bad as you think, but I certainly take you personally when you do something stupid on the road. Certainly couldn't be MY fault.... but seriously, I was listening to another person discuss "traffic" rather than "drivers" and it suddenly occurred to me: I personify EVERY SINGLE DRIVER out there. To this guy it's just "traffic." A collection of humans in transportation mechanisms getting to where they're going. Of course, I HATE walking around in a mall because nobody does what I want them to do there, either, so it's clear I got work to do. But I thought that was kind of porphetic--and maybe a different way of addressing my issues. SO....
I'll get there--with MY HP's help... Progress, not perfection....
Hard to believe?
Well, the whole example about poor drivers on the road is me. I'm the guy that you piss off when you don't pay attention or drive in the left lane (except in England-ville), or yap on the cell, or cut off, or speed by and then slow down in front of, or drive excessively fast and endanger, or intentionally slow down in front of, or just basically do anything to piss me off! Yep. That's me. I'll yell at you, gesture at you, endanger you, etc. Yep. That guy!
Okay, so not as bad as you think, but I certainly take you personally when you do something stupid on the road. Certainly couldn't be MY fault.... but seriously, I was listening to another person discuss "traffic" rather than "drivers" and it suddenly occurred to me: I personify EVERY SINGLE DRIVER out there. To this guy it's just "traffic." A collection of humans in transportation mechanisms getting to where they're going. Of course, I HATE walking around in a mall because nobody does what I want them to do there, either, so it's clear I got work to do. But I thought that was kind of porphetic--and maybe a different way of addressing my issues. SO....
I'll get there--with MY HP's help... Progress, not perfection....
One meeting in particular, that I happen to be the Sec'y at, has some folks who do that....I sometimes have to remind them 3 - 5 minutes per share....one guy said I know...blah, blah, blah the other day and I stuck my tongue out at him, real mature, I was really working my Program! I'm reminded that patience, tolerance and love is our code....us recovering alcoholics and addicts.
In regard to traffic, it was suggested that I picture my Mom driving in the car in front of me or another elderly person I know, and well, that right-sizes me for sure.
In regard to traffic, it was suggested that I picture my Mom driving in the car in front of me or another elderly person I know, and well, that right-sizes me for sure.
Well then your Mom is a lousy driver!
:)
Thanks for sharing--and reminding me to not sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff.
:)
Thanks for sharing--and reminding me to not sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff.
By the way: That guy comes to MY meeting, too! Yep. This one's an F-in' know-it-all and even has sponsored some, apparently, and is constantly selling the 12/12 and you MUST do the steps in this manner and blah-blah-blah. He's got these awful ticks, too, and will go on ad-nauseum (apparently an educator in a former life) who seems to LOVE to hear his drone. It's funny to watch the room start fidgeting only moments after he's begun. And I don't believe he's EVER passed. I'm learning that he's my lesson/example from my HP and that Pride/Vanity is an awfully pervasive thing.
Thanks again.
peaceness.
Thanks again.
peaceness.
Howdy ~ My daughter has been having some bad feelings about her usual meetings - lately they've been overly focused on the problems of a couple of folks that have been regular attendees for several years. It has made her uncomfortable with sharing her own stuff, and with the type of sharing that's going on. Everyone has sort of dropped their boundaries and gotten involved - not very 'anonymous'. To her credit she has sought out new meetings and refrains from involvement in the drama. Anyway, her therapist, who is a proponent of the steps and the community they provide, has told her that some meetings can actually become toxic and not at all about the recovery. Big points to her for moving on. Has anyone ever had that experience?
~MomNMore
~MomNMore
Hi Mom-N,
That's a nasty looking "B" you got there--have you given any thought to having it checked out? Maybe removed?
LOL
It's my experience that regular attendees hijack the group--it's almost like the "Treehouse Effect," (yes, my own phrase) in that nobody's allowed in the group until there's been some sort of acknowledgement of the "leader." I'm the kind of dork that would point it out and then ask if there were another group meeting somewhere else. My recovery is too important to allow some pompous a** who's been hoisted by his/her own vanity to derail it, and although it may be seen as a test, it's just as important to be selfish enough to focus on MY sobriety.
"to her credit she has sought out new meetings and refrains from involvement in the drama." Good for her.
"Her therapist, who is a proponent of the steps and the community they provide, has told her that some meetings can actually become toxic and not at all about the recovery."
I agree. They ARE very dynamic and, with the number of people that come through the doors and never show again." I can see how it can become easy to forget what the original message is: Anonymity is the foundation of our success."
" Big points to her for moving on. Has anyone ever had that experience?"
Yep. Wrestling with that very thing, although it doesn't look like mine is anywhere near as troubling as hers may be. Proffs for moving on--at least that is an option! I still attend, but am asking around the group as to where other meetings may be available. If she's skillful, she may be able to bring it up in a meeting?
That's a nasty looking "B" you got there--have you given any thought to having it checked out? Maybe removed?
LOL
It's my experience that regular attendees hijack the group--it's almost like the "Treehouse Effect," (yes, my own phrase) in that nobody's allowed in the group until there's been some sort of acknowledgement of the "leader." I'm the kind of dork that would point it out and then ask if there were another group meeting somewhere else. My recovery is too important to allow some pompous a** who's been hoisted by his/her own vanity to derail it, and although it may be seen as a test, it's just as important to be selfish enough to focus on MY sobriety.
"to her credit she has sought out new meetings and refrains from involvement in the drama." Good for her.
"Her therapist, who is a proponent of the steps and the community they provide, has told her that some meetings can actually become toxic and not at all about the recovery."
I agree. They ARE very dynamic and, with the number of people that come through the doors and never show again." I can see how it can become easy to forget what the original message is: Anonymity is the foundation of our success."
" Big points to her for moving on. Has anyone ever had that experience?"
Yep. Wrestling with that very thing, although it doesn't look like mine is anywhere near as troubling as hers may be. Proffs for moving on--at least that is an option! I still attend, but am asking around the group as to where other meetings may be available. If she's skillful, she may be able to bring it up in a meeting?
skg - Thanks for your input. R is not qujite skillful or confident enough yet to bring it up. She's young, 20, and still a little unsure of her public persona. It's also tough because she doesn't drive right now and is at the mercy of small town public transportation. The hijackers recently suffered an enormous personal tragedy and R says that everyone else's stuff seems so small compared to what all is going on with them. Because she spoke her mind last weekend someone involved in the drama actually had the nerve to tell her that she was triggering him and it would be her fault if he relapsed! She didn't bite and accepts no responsibility for anyone's sobriety but her own.
Anyway, I'm real proud of her and the way she's handling it all. She and a meeting buddy are reconsidering AA vs. NA since ther are so many more meetings to choose from (but she doesn't want to be at one attended by her high school friends' parents =)
I'm just really glad she's sharing her recovery efforts with us - both the good and the bad. That means our perspective has meaning for her and that feels pretty dang good after suffering her adolescence. Thanks again for your reply - a pleasure as always...
~MomNMore
Anyway, I'm real proud of her and the way she's handling it all. She and a meeting buddy are reconsidering AA vs. NA since ther are so many more meetings to choose from (but she doesn't want to be at one attended by her high school friends' parents =)
I'm just really glad she's sharing her recovery efforts with us - both the good and the bad. That means our perspective has meaning for her and that feels pretty dang good after suffering her adolescence. Thanks again for your reply - a pleasure as always...
~MomNMore
MumNmore
I think what you ahve to remember is that AA and NA are full of some very very sick people - they are far from being paragons on how to live. Its something about the purpose of the group behind AA that makes it work not the individuals who are variously flawed.
Its important to focus on the recover that is there and ignore the rest - which can be tough to do but it comes with not judging I think.
The saying "Take what you need and leave the rest" is a big one.
I think your daughter is doing just fine from the sounds of things. Perhaps she just needs to take a break from that particular meeting for a while - in a few months it will probably settle down again.
I think what you ahve to remember is that AA and NA are full of some very very sick people - they are far from being paragons on how to live. Its something about the purpose of the group behind AA that makes it work not the individuals who are variously flawed.
Its important to focus on the recover that is there and ignore the rest - which can be tough to do but it comes with not judging I think.
The saying "Take what you need and leave the rest" is a big one.
I think your daughter is doing just fine from the sounds of things. Perhaps she just needs to take a break from that particular meeting for a while - in a few months it will probably settle down again.
We haver 12 traditions that adress this very thing. Each group has its own group concience. It may be required to reminfd fellow addicts every now and then. I recvently left a group for another, after trying to adress the issues. So not everyone adheres to the traditions.
My own recovery is first.
My own recovery is first.
From the Twelve Traditions:
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
I used to tell my children, "Everyone serves as an example. Even if it's a bad one." Perhaps she can take something away from the situation--does she have a sponsor or someone she can talk with? I'd provide my e-mail but I'm not sure it would be of any help. F2F conversations (by other AA members or group members) are so critical to me. I get mine from the group, not a sponsor, so I am very sensitive to the group consciousness. Perhaps there's someone she can trust to work with?
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
I used to tell my children, "Everyone serves as an example. Even if it's a bad one." Perhaps she can take something away from the situation--does she have a sponsor or someone she can talk with? I'd provide my e-mail but I'm not sure it would be of any help. F2F conversations (by other AA members or group members) are so critical to me. I get mine from the group, not a sponsor, so I am very sensitive to the group consciousness. Perhaps there's someone she can trust to work with?
Hmmmm...an interesting discussion.
It has been my experience that at my Early Riser meetings, which I go to Monday through Friday, that we have been very blessed not to have anyone "hijack" the meetings or try to run them. In fact, for some, the structure of the meeting is too relaxed.
Anyone can start the meeting (so we often don't start until 7:03 am!), there is no sheet the meeting starter reads from, its just a moment of silence, AA announcements and AA anniversaries, then asking if anyone is a newcomer or visiting from another AA group or out of town. Then someone volunteers to read a portion of Chapter 5, How it Works. Then they ask if anyone would like a first step for any reason (we do automatic First Steps for a newcomer). This order isn't always strictly adhered to and there are no explosions if they don't.
And the interesting thing about this meeting is how established it is. The average sobriety is in the double digit years. We have just had an influx of 4 newcomers and they adore this relaxed atmosphere. No gurus, but lots and lots of stories and experience. We just had someone relate today that there isn't "more wisdom" from one person versus another, just stories. The stories, the experiences are the teachers. As a scientist, I look at it as a valuable data repository. What worked, what didn't work for people. Every Tuesday is a Step or Tradition day and we read the Step that corresponds to the month and relate how each person applies or works it. Great for the newcomers to learn some of the nuts and bolts of the program. For me, it is working those Steps outside the meeting that really helps me. The meetings are "people practice" and renforcers
of the continued need of Steps for me.
As for drama, meh, any groups of people is going to have some. The human condition. Personality conflicts? Uh..yeah. This comes down to expectations for me. If quitting chemicals is automatically going completely eliviate someone's shortcomings is my expectation, I am in a world of hurt. If I see some behavior from someone that annoys me, I have to consider: 1) I am sure I have behaviors that annoy them. 2) Do I practice this behavior? 3) Make sure I don't practice this behavior. Tolerance is good. If people can tolerate me, its about time for me to reciprocate...
We too have several people that seem to live in the world of relapse (or perhaps it is better said they skirt around the edges of the program and have never really quit in the first place). In two cases it involves traumatic lives and mental illness. People do try to help them, perhaps too much, but they do it on their own time and it is not brought up in the meetings except as a topic of practicing acceptance and avoiding enabling (yup AA and Al-Anon are linked). We do have a drama free place and way, way too much laughter. Rule #62, don't take yourself so d*** seriously, is in this house...
Sheesh, I haven't posted in awhile, and here I have written a book. Well, people can read...or not....at their leisure and it won't take up anyone's sharing time or space as it is, theoretically, infinite....
It has been my experience that at my Early Riser meetings, which I go to Monday through Friday, that we have been very blessed not to have anyone "hijack" the meetings or try to run them. In fact, for some, the structure of the meeting is too relaxed.
Anyone can start the meeting (so we often don't start until 7:03 am!), there is no sheet the meeting starter reads from, its just a moment of silence, AA announcements and AA anniversaries, then asking if anyone is a newcomer or visiting from another AA group or out of town. Then someone volunteers to read a portion of Chapter 5, How it Works. Then they ask if anyone would like a first step for any reason (we do automatic First Steps for a newcomer). This order isn't always strictly adhered to and there are no explosions if they don't.
And the interesting thing about this meeting is how established it is. The average sobriety is in the double digit years. We have just had an influx of 4 newcomers and they adore this relaxed atmosphere. No gurus, but lots and lots of stories and experience. We just had someone relate today that there isn't "more wisdom" from one person versus another, just stories. The stories, the experiences are the teachers. As a scientist, I look at it as a valuable data repository. What worked, what didn't work for people. Every Tuesday is a Step or Tradition day and we read the Step that corresponds to the month and relate how each person applies or works it. Great for the newcomers to learn some of the nuts and bolts of the program. For me, it is working those Steps outside the meeting that really helps me. The meetings are "people practice" and renforcers
of the continued need of Steps for me.
As for drama, meh, any groups of people is going to have some. The human condition. Personality conflicts? Uh..yeah. This comes down to expectations for me. If quitting chemicals is automatically going completely eliviate someone's shortcomings is my expectation, I am in a world of hurt. If I see some behavior from someone that annoys me, I have to consider: 1) I am sure I have behaviors that annoy them. 2) Do I practice this behavior? 3) Make sure I don't practice this behavior. Tolerance is good. If people can tolerate me, its about time for me to reciprocate...
We too have several people that seem to live in the world of relapse (or perhaps it is better said they skirt around the edges of the program and have never really quit in the first place). In two cases it involves traumatic lives and mental illness. People do try to help them, perhaps too much, but they do it on their own time and it is not brought up in the meetings except as a topic of practicing acceptance and avoiding enabling (yup AA and Al-Anon are linked). We do have a drama free place and way, way too much laughter. Rule #62, don't take yourself so d*** seriously, is in this house...
Sheesh, I haven't posted in awhile, and here I have written a book. Well, people can read...or not....at their leisure and it won't take up anyone's sharing time or space as it is, theoretically, infinite....
Hey, welcome and thanks for sharing!
By the way, the laughter: I LOVE the way we can shqare our, um, "adventures," and laugh about them. Of course, *I* have to be able to laugh at myself, but that's never been much of a problem with me. I certainly HOPE I come across as not taking myself too seriously!
Thanks for joining in. I'd like to hear others' descriptions of a typical meeting because I've only been to a couple different groups--still searching around for my comfort zone.
By the way, the laughter: I LOVE the way we can shqare our, um, "adventures," and laugh about them. Of course, *I* have to be able to laugh at myself, but that's never been much of a problem with me. I certainly HOPE I come across as not taking myself too seriously!
Thanks for joining in. I'd like to hear others' descriptions of a typical meeting because I've only been to a couple different groups--still searching around for my comfort zone.
Morning everyone....
Big smooch blown to Elim...so very nice to read your words this morning....
I do 4-5 meetings a week...it was suggested in the beginning to jump into the middle and stay away from the edges of the program if I wanted a shot at sobriety, so I did...they said get into service, go to meetings, don't drink/drug no matter what, get a sponsor and work the steps...What has worked for me is the different groups that I do attend...I go to 3 different fellowships within a week...my absolute favorite is in a tiny, tiny town about 20minutes North of where I live in the country and there's a group of us, usually from 6 -10 that get together twice a week and the laughter and tears we share is so overwhelming and powerful....These fellows have seen me at my worst and my best but the biggest key with our group is the following of the Traditions and what is said there, stays there...I have built solid friendships & have learned to trust people again....
On the flip side, I sect'y a Thursday night meeting where the dynamics are a tad different...the meeting use to be a fairly large meeting with a lot of sobriety & old timers but a couple months ago, a new meeting was started up by some old-timers that conflicts with this meeting so attendance is down, especially the old-timers and at first, I was having a difficult time adjusting and accepting that but I was reminded that my primary purpose is to stay sober and help others to acheive sobriety....There have been quite a few newcomers walking through those doors lately and I am so grateful that there are still some of us that show up on a regular basis to be there when the newcomer walks in and because there are less people in attendance, it allows us to all share and give the newcomer all the attention they deserve.....
I have found before I walk into any meeting, that I pray to be open and willing...and I love what Elim posted about rule 62, don't take yourself so damn seriously....what a freedom I have found in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous...
Have a blessed day, everyone and a wonderful weekend...
xoxo
Stacey
Big smooch blown to Elim...so very nice to read your words this morning....
I do 4-5 meetings a week...it was suggested in the beginning to jump into the middle and stay away from the edges of the program if I wanted a shot at sobriety, so I did...they said get into service, go to meetings, don't drink/drug no matter what, get a sponsor and work the steps...What has worked for me is the different groups that I do attend...I go to 3 different fellowships within a week...my absolute favorite is in a tiny, tiny town about 20minutes North of where I live in the country and there's a group of us, usually from 6 -10 that get together twice a week and the laughter and tears we share is so overwhelming and powerful....These fellows have seen me at my worst and my best but the biggest key with our group is the following of the Traditions and what is said there, stays there...I have built solid friendships & have learned to trust people again....
On the flip side, I sect'y a Thursday night meeting where the dynamics are a tad different...the meeting use to be a fairly large meeting with a lot of sobriety & old timers but a couple months ago, a new meeting was started up by some old-timers that conflicts with this meeting so attendance is down, especially the old-timers and at first, I was having a difficult time adjusting and accepting that but I was reminded that my primary purpose is to stay sober and help others to acheive sobriety....There have been quite a few newcomers walking through those doors lately and I am so grateful that there are still some of us that show up on a regular basis to be there when the newcomer walks in and because there are less people in attendance, it allows us to all share and give the newcomer all the attention they deserve.....
I have found before I walk into any meeting, that I pray to be open and willing...and I love what Elim posted about rule 62, don't take yourself so damn seriously....what a freedom I have found in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous...
Have a blessed day, everyone and a wonderful weekend...
xoxo
Stacey
Wow! Thanks for all the responses and valuable perspectives! Elim - people are looking for you elsewhere on the boards...
Sponsors - The sponsor, or ex-sponsor is one of the hijackers. Personal tragedy, really tough times, relapsed big time and is MIA.
Meetings - She's been shopping for a sponsor, but there's a female shortage of long-term sobriety in her groups. She's also shopping meetings including AA, though her preference is for NA.
Laughter - There used to be loads, but the tone has changed dramatically.
She's young and still feeling her way around, not terribly assertive or prone to pointing out the negative (except in herself). But the point is, she's trying and wants to start step work over again with a new sponsor. She relapsed in April and is keenly feeling the need to attend.
Idgie - she is going to do just that, take a break, or depart when things aren't working for her. What you said about addicts: her therapist told her exactly the same thing, like, remember why folks are there and focus on the recovery. I guess there's not much recovery right now, just drama, so she's moving on.
Thanks for sharing everyone. I've only been to the one meeting she invited me to attend so I'm only a vicarious participant through my daughter's filter. I feel I've gotten a real education.
PS skg - the way things have been going the past two weeks I may have to have that B removed, yeesh 13 1/2 game lead down to 7 - early season choke. =)
Sponsors - The sponsor, or ex-sponsor is one of the hijackers. Personal tragedy, really tough times, relapsed big time and is MIA.
Meetings - She's been shopping for a sponsor, but there's a female shortage of long-term sobriety in her groups. She's also shopping meetings including AA, though her preference is for NA.
Laughter - There used to be loads, but the tone has changed dramatically.
She's young and still feeling her way around, not terribly assertive or prone to pointing out the negative (except in herself). But the point is, she's trying and wants to start step work over again with a new sponsor. She relapsed in April and is keenly feeling the need to attend.
Idgie - she is going to do just that, take a break, or depart when things aren't working for her. What you said about addicts: her therapist told her exactly the same thing, like, remember why folks are there and focus on the recovery. I guess there's not much recovery right now, just drama, so she's moving on.
Thanks for sharing everyone. I've only been to the one meeting she invited me to attend so I'm only a vicarious participant through my daughter's filter. I feel I've gotten a real education.
PS skg - the way things have been going the past two weeks I may have to have that B removed, yeesh 13 1/2 game lead down to 7 - early season choke. =)
skg
I honestly think you would really like our Early Risers group. It is highly heterogeneous and definitely has no "orthodoxy". Some people use the Big Book alot in their share, some alot of reference to the 12 and 12. We do have a couple of people who insist that is the only way. I just don't take that personally. What they insist is their business and there is no point taking offense or even getting annoyed. I will admit I do use them both alot as well and if someone asks I tell them they work for me and most importantly how and why they work for me. I am not a "thumper" on these matters, though. People have to figure this out for themselves.
We also have a blessed "curmudgeon" who will say what is exactly on their mind regardless if it ruffles feathers. They definitely do not "tow the party line" on some AA matters. They will tell people that they shouldn't get too discouraged about their character defects and that some defects aren't as defective as one thinks and most importantly one can have these defects and stay sober. What is also so neat about them is all they often will say is that they can't do it alone, they keep it simple, they don't drink, and they come to meetings. And always says, "Thanks folks".
For such a large number of people who have been sober for quite a number of 24 hours, it is amazing on how little "pontification" is going on. Lot of reminiscing on what did.... and did not....work for them and even how after all that time, there are still times they would have liked to do certain things over. Definitely no group sense of "having arrived."
We have, of course, our "warts" and I know these "warts" bother the heck out of a certain person. The person who opens up for us and makes the coffee is drinking on the sly (or not so sly, they have confessed to this). This bothers this other person immensely. They think that this person should be removed from this duty, that one earns the right to do this. Almost as if removing this duty is a punishment. Perhaps there is a good logic to this and I do understand where they are coming from.
But...the "opener" is on time without fail and quite responsible. Heck they are more responsible than I was when I was using, even before I started to use. Is this the most "optimal" situation? No, of course not. But if it gives this person just some string to hold on to, just some glimmer of hope and if they keep doing as good a job as they are doing, I will take at least "harm reduction" for now..... People have given this person various sundry "butt kickings" (and I do think that butt kickings can be necessary. To only say "nice things" to someone is not being compassionate as far as I am concerned). There is not much else to do, it is now on this "sipper's" shoulders (and their HP).
To live...to die..and how each state is accomplished...all we can be is the cheerleaders and friends for this person on their journey. I think they punish themselves far better than anything our group can do.
Well, I did it again, wrote War and Peace. It is nice to muse to someone outside my group about these things. I don't get too invested in this for a couple of reasons one "noble" reason and the other...not so noble: 1) (Noble) I get very queasy about sitting in judgement about others as maaan, I pulled some real doozies and 2) (Not so noble): I get so focused on my life and what I am feeling and doing that I don't pay attention to others as much as I should. (There, I told on myself.)
Enjoy yet another novel on this hot Wisconsin day..stay cool.....
I honestly think you would really like our Early Risers group. It is highly heterogeneous and definitely has no "orthodoxy". Some people use the Big Book alot in their share, some alot of reference to the 12 and 12. We do have a couple of people who insist that is the only way. I just don't take that personally. What they insist is their business and there is no point taking offense or even getting annoyed. I will admit I do use them both alot as well and if someone asks I tell them they work for me and most importantly how and why they work for me. I am not a "thumper" on these matters, though. People have to figure this out for themselves.
We also have a blessed "curmudgeon" who will say what is exactly on their mind regardless if it ruffles feathers. They definitely do not "tow the party line" on some AA matters. They will tell people that they shouldn't get too discouraged about their character defects and that some defects aren't as defective as one thinks and most importantly one can have these defects and stay sober. What is also so neat about them is all they often will say is that they can't do it alone, they keep it simple, they don't drink, and they come to meetings. And always says, "Thanks folks".
For such a large number of people who have been sober for quite a number of 24 hours, it is amazing on how little "pontification" is going on. Lot of reminiscing on what did.... and did not....work for them and even how after all that time, there are still times they would have liked to do certain things over. Definitely no group sense of "having arrived."
We have, of course, our "warts" and I know these "warts" bother the heck out of a certain person. The person who opens up for us and makes the coffee is drinking on the sly (or not so sly, they have confessed to this). This bothers this other person immensely. They think that this person should be removed from this duty, that one earns the right to do this. Almost as if removing this duty is a punishment. Perhaps there is a good logic to this and I do understand where they are coming from.
But...the "opener" is on time without fail and quite responsible. Heck they are more responsible than I was when I was using, even before I started to use. Is this the most "optimal" situation? No, of course not. But if it gives this person just some string to hold on to, just some glimmer of hope and if they keep doing as good a job as they are doing, I will take at least "harm reduction" for now..... People have given this person various sundry "butt kickings" (and I do think that butt kickings can be necessary. To only say "nice things" to someone is not being compassionate as far as I am concerned). There is not much else to do, it is now on this "sipper's" shoulders (and their HP).
To live...to die..and how each state is accomplished...all we can be is the cheerleaders and friends for this person on their journey. I think they punish themselves far better than anything our group can do.
Well, I did it again, wrote War and Peace. It is nice to muse to someone outside my group about these things. I don't get too invested in this for a couple of reasons one "noble" reason and the other...not so noble: 1) (Noble) I get very queasy about sitting in judgement about others as maaan, I pulled some real doozies and 2) (Not so noble): I get so focused on my life and what I am feeling and doing that I don't pay attention to others as much as I should. (There, I told on myself.)
Enjoy yet another novel on this hot Wisconsin day..stay cool.....
MomN,
Typical BoSox--back to their mantra? I gave up on them YEARS ago--and gave up elevating people/things/ideas pretty much all together--'cept for the HP thingy. Seems to be the ONLY thing that hasn't failed me. When I listen, anyhow... And I realize it's, "His/her/its will, not mine." Gives me someone to blame when s*** doesn't go well, too. There's more wisdom there than we give credit, frankly.
E.G.,
I have a couple groups I attend, but I wouldn't say they're mine. The thing that blew me away was that there were SO MANY people coming in and out all the time--never to be seen or heard from again. Except perhaps on, "Cops." I never knew there were so many that suffered enough to even ask themselves the question. I do understand the revolving door concept that exists for many, but one of the first things I learned in here was that it was the only place I WASN'T ALLOWED to judge people. And it worked. Yeah, there are several that I saw when I first came in that have mysteriously 'gone back out there' because they're apparently Anglers (always fishing for a different angle to drink) or maybe they don't figure they've fell far enough. Or maybe they want the epiphany over and over? LOL Still, the only requirement for membership is the DESIRE to stop drinking and, if it were that simple, we'd all have quit along time ago. It takes committment and, in my case, a profound sense of stupid when I DO drink and the recognition of it--and the belief that I have some reprieve if I just come in to see how terribly everyone else has had it! That doesn't justify me going out to see if I can get lower, either. Just reassures me that I've stopped with most of my life in tact. And damn if I don't feel alot better physically!
24G--I go to meetings everyday at lunchtime and on the weekends I try to hit at least one at a different location. I've just been lucky, I guess, in that the group I'm in right now has just the right balance of insanity and patience that they'll allow ME in. I read the 12 traditions today--we do, "How It Works," "Twelve Traditions," and "The promises," before every meeting and I made a point of emphasizing principles above personalities whenever I can. Thanks to this board, btw.
:)
Typical BoSox--back to their mantra? I gave up on them YEARS ago--and gave up elevating people/things/ideas pretty much all together--'cept for the HP thingy. Seems to be the ONLY thing that hasn't failed me. When I listen, anyhow... And I realize it's, "His/her/its will, not mine." Gives me someone to blame when s*** doesn't go well, too. There's more wisdom there than we give credit, frankly.
E.G.,
I have a couple groups I attend, but I wouldn't say they're mine. The thing that blew me away was that there were SO MANY people coming in and out all the time--never to be seen or heard from again. Except perhaps on, "Cops." I never knew there were so many that suffered enough to even ask themselves the question. I do understand the revolving door concept that exists for many, but one of the first things I learned in here was that it was the only place I WASN'T ALLOWED to judge people. And it worked. Yeah, there are several that I saw when I first came in that have mysteriously 'gone back out there' because they're apparently Anglers (always fishing for a different angle to drink) or maybe they don't figure they've fell far enough. Or maybe they want the epiphany over and over? LOL Still, the only requirement for membership is the DESIRE to stop drinking and, if it were that simple, we'd all have quit along time ago. It takes committment and, in my case, a profound sense of stupid when I DO drink and the recognition of it--and the belief that I have some reprieve if I just come in to see how terribly everyone else has had it! That doesn't justify me going out to see if I can get lower, either. Just reassures me that I've stopped with most of my life in tact. And damn if I don't feel alot better physically!
24G--I go to meetings everyday at lunchtime and on the weekends I try to hit at least one at a different location. I've just been lucky, I guess, in that the group I'm in right now has just the right balance of insanity and patience that they'll allow ME in. I read the 12 traditions today--we do, "How It Works," "Twelve Traditions," and "The promises," before every meeting and I made a point of emphasizing principles above personalities whenever I can. Thanks to this board, btw.
:)
Gidday Everyone
What we are talking about is the beauty of recovery and how it is working in our lives.
I used to think the meeting suffered if i didnt share and then i learnt to listen and not sit there thinking of the perfect share for that meeting and as Elim stated i have to look at why im getting pissed off at the meeting if someones sharing is not the norm.
One guy used to come to our meetings and share about every footstep from waking in the morning to sleeping at night used to annoy heaps but then i realised one day by actually listening to him that his head injury was due to alcohol and but for the grace of god it is not me doing the same.
Our meetings(my home group) are small now so we hear the same sharing over and over sometimes and it is usually what i need to hear and no matter what everyone shares at our meetings now if they want to as 10 people would be a big meeting.
The people that keep coming are still sober and yes there are a lot of sober people sitting at home who have got tired of the same faces but i am glad that when i was a newcomer the ones that kept turning up did because now i want to repay that gratitude and keep turning up myself.
I have spent time away from the meetings in the past because i let personalitys kill the principles, in my mind. But for now the gratitude and hope and feeling of belonging far outweigh any personalitys and as long as my sharing is honest then im doing ok.
Light and love Zac
What we are talking about is the beauty of recovery and how it is working in our lives.
I used to think the meeting suffered if i didnt share and then i learnt to listen and not sit there thinking of the perfect share for that meeting and as Elim stated i have to look at why im getting pissed off at the meeting if someones sharing is not the norm.
One guy used to come to our meetings and share about every footstep from waking in the morning to sleeping at night used to annoy heaps but then i realised one day by actually listening to him that his head injury was due to alcohol and but for the grace of god it is not me doing the same.
Our meetings(my home group) are small now so we hear the same sharing over and over sometimes and it is usually what i need to hear and no matter what everyone shares at our meetings now if they want to as 10 people would be a big meeting.
The people that keep coming are still sober and yes there are a lot of sober people sitting at home who have got tired of the same faces but i am glad that when i was a newcomer the ones that kept turning up did because now i want to repay that gratitude and keep turning up myself.
I have spent time away from the meetings in the past because i let personalitys kill the principles, in my mind. But for now the gratitude and hope and feeling of belonging far outweigh any personalitys and as long as my sharing is honest then im doing ok.
Light and love Zac
"But for now the gratitude and hope and feeling of belonging far outweigh any personalitys and as long as my sharing is honest then im doing ok."
What he said.
What he said.
