I think anyone who ever had a "relationship" with pills realizes that that relationships will follow you the rest or your life just as any other relationship you may have.
I truly think there needs to be strict laws on painkillers, especially oxycontin, which was originally intended for cancer patients only. Yes, I know that illegal drugs are rampant everywhere and the price would be sky high, BUT most of us, or alot of us anyway, got our first drug fix from our doctors. The only time a painkiller helped me was after I gave birth. I was given percocet in the hospital and boy in 20 minutes the pain was gone and I felt great. They gave me 2 every 4 hours (8 a day) and then weaned me to 1 every 4 hours (4 a day) and sent me home. No idea if I had w/d after that short amount of time because I was too messed up being a new mother lol. Since then though, Ive taken painkillers and they really did little for a tooth ache or when my sciatica acted up. I was just high and who cared about the pain. MY POINT is that doctors TOO EASILY give that first script. How do you determine who is in real pain and who is not? I dont know. Doctors dont know. But most of the ails we go to the doctors with should not be handled with undending prescriptions. Laws or education of some sort should be mandatory for dispensing these pills which our doctors hooked us on and we became very creative at feeding our addiction after that. I ALSO feel that since drug addiction is so rampant there should be some sort of FREE programs for a first timer. MORE needs to be done for these pills that have taken control of kids, moms, dads, grandparents, everywhere. Its just so discouraging reading how many this has effected.
I agree, Donna. It's very discouraging. Seems like the whole world has discovered pills.
It's a very difficult dilema for Drs though. There are chronic pain patients who really need their meds.
All I know is that as recovered addicts, we have a responsibility to educate our Drs and others about the dangers.
As a mother, this grieves me terribly.
Prescription pain meds are rampant. I so desperatly want my children to have a chance at life and not become addicts. I do my best to warn them and educate them about the dangers of drugs but how can I compete the the overwhelming peer pressure out there?
Is there an answer to this plague on society?
I wish I knew what it was.
Good post, Donna.
It's a very difficult dilema for Drs though. There are chronic pain patients who really need their meds.
All I know is that as recovered addicts, we have a responsibility to educate our Drs and others about the dangers.
As a mother, this grieves me terribly.
Prescription pain meds are rampant. I so desperatly want my children to have a chance at life and not become addicts. I do my best to warn them and educate them about the dangers of drugs but how can I compete the the overwhelming peer pressure out there?
Is there an answer to this plague on society?
I wish I knew what it was.
Good post, Donna.
My family doctor REFUSES to prescribe oxycontin to anyone. Thank God. However, he did prescribe the percocet (5 mg) for my foot pain but the problem is if you have an addictive personality, it's the "feeling" you are looking for after that initial "feel good" dose and even when one tablet would be enough to make the pain tolerable, we take two instead and then when that doesn't work (for the high) we up it and up it. I was only supposed to take 1 to 2 tab up to 4 x per day..........it didn't take long for it to reach 15 per day and be running out and freaking about it. Doing my cutback now and it is very hard. My doctor also mentioned that he thought that Oxycontin should be illegal to prescribe unless someone is terminal. It has really become a major problem in both the US and here in Canada.........and usually with middle to upper class folks. Goes to show you addictions knows no "class"..........and gets its grip on us all if we let it.
I totally agree with you about the oxycontin. What so many don't know is that tolerance for it grows very fast. Sadly, even though it's suppossed to last twelve hours, it isn't long before it doesn't. I have several friends who've gone through this. Even taking their meds they wind up in a state of wd and are miserable.
One very good friend found herself in a constant state of wd and was tortured by this. The Dr just upped her dose and before she knew it, she was taking three 80's a day! Yet still, hours before it was time for her next dose she was having all the wd symptoms.
I think it's an evil pill. It should be used only for terminally ill people and even then those that don't have long to live.
I can say this much, here in Alabama, Dr's have all but stopped prescribing it.
I wish it would be banned altogether except for those in the last stages of their life.
One very good friend found herself in a constant state of wd and was tortured by this. The Dr just upped her dose and before she knew it, she was taking three 80's a day! Yet still, hours before it was time for her next dose she was having all the wd symptoms.
I think it's an evil pill. It should be used only for terminally ill people and even then those that don't have long to live.
I can say this much, here in Alabama, Dr's have all but stopped prescribing it.
I wish it would be banned altogether except for those in the last stages of their life.
I would like to describe one doctor's role in helping me to get addicted. Yes, I take full responsibility for my actions, but I did get it somewhere.
I know this doctor through my husband. I have never been his patient, nor has he ever prescribed anything to me.
I have a friend who had major back surgery in Dec. 2004. He was referred to this dr. for pain management after the surgery. He is a DO. He prescribed my friend oxy 20's. He had never taken a pain pill before, and did not know that what he was getting was addictive. I did not know him yet.
His initial pain was not relieved. He told the dr. who immediately upped him to oxy 40's and perc 10's for breakthrough pain. 90 of each, plus 120 flexril. The word got out, and my friend quickly discovered he had a hot commodity. His pain was now under control, and he did not need all of his meds. The prescriptions kept coming every month, same amount. He was still in some pain, but had developed a tolerance and enjoyed the pills.
He began selling the pills he was not taking. His friend that he was selling them to ended up getting busted. My friend freaked out and decided he was done selling and taking them. Luckily, the friend never said where they were coming from. He quit CT after several months of daily use. For some reason, he continued to collect the scripts, but did not fill them.
He always had one bottle of percs on hand to use if needed. Yes, he really controlled his use after being on them for months. He is just not an addict, only was dependant for months.
Then, he meets me. We get to be friends, and share an office and I soon find out he has unfilled scripts for oxy 40's and perc 10's. I ask, why have you not filled them? He says that he does not need them, except on occasion. Plus he cannot afford to fill them. Then he says he has been hurting lately, but does not want to pay for the scripts.
I offered to pay for a script, if he would give me half. I had been off of vics and clean, for 3 months at this point. He filled one script for the percs. My half ended up being about 70 of the 90 we had. He could not believe how fast I took them.
Then they ran out. So, of course, I asked him to fill the oxys. He said no, he did not want me to get hooked. I assured him that I did this all the time, and look at me, I'm fine. Plus, I can be persuasive, especially when it comes to pills.
This repeated until there were no more scripts. He had already stopped going to the dr. by the time we met. I took a couple of days off to WD. I thought it would be like all the times I came off of vics. Boy, did I learn the hard way.
He did not know how sick I was. When 2 days was not enough to get back to normal, I started calling my dr. friends and going to visit all of the people I knew that had pills. He thought I came off of them just fine.
I was up to 170mg per day, and people were really getting sick of me asking for pills. I still cannot believe what I did to myself in three months. I finally told my friend that I had still been using and that I had a problem. He talked me into telling my husband and getting help, so I did. He had to bring me pills so I could drive to the suboxone clinic. All I could think was, I can't believe he has 2 pills left and never gave them to me before. At the same time thinking, thank god he has 2 pills left that he never gave me.
He has not taken another pill since he saw me in WD that morning. He even broke his arm and did not take pills.
You guys all know the rest of my story.
Now back to the dr. that wrote those scripts. What the fu*k was he thinking? That my friend still had the same pain that he had after the surgery? He never even asked! He would just go, and the dr. would just write them out and say see ya next month.
He also gives a family member 360 percs per month for back pain. She rarely takes them. I always did though.
I see this dr. at professional events from time to time. A big part of we wants to tell him this story. I want to just walk up to him at a business/social function and rattle it off. But, I cannot. My husband is a dr. also and this would not sit well in our little community.
Wow. I guess I am a bit angry at him. I think I'm going to go to bed and thank god that the oxys are out of my life. Now if I can just get off of the suboxone.
Thanks for letting me vent.
I know this doctor through my husband. I have never been his patient, nor has he ever prescribed anything to me.
I have a friend who had major back surgery in Dec. 2004. He was referred to this dr. for pain management after the surgery. He is a DO. He prescribed my friend oxy 20's. He had never taken a pain pill before, and did not know that what he was getting was addictive. I did not know him yet.
His initial pain was not relieved. He told the dr. who immediately upped him to oxy 40's and perc 10's for breakthrough pain. 90 of each, plus 120 flexril. The word got out, and my friend quickly discovered he had a hot commodity. His pain was now under control, and he did not need all of his meds. The prescriptions kept coming every month, same amount. He was still in some pain, but had developed a tolerance and enjoyed the pills.
He began selling the pills he was not taking. His friend that he was selling them to ended up getting busted. My friend freaked out and decided he was done selling and taking them. Luckily, the friend never said where they were coming from. He quit CT after several months of daily use. For some reason, he continued to collect the scripts, but did not fill them.
He always had one bottle of percs on hand to use if needed. Yes, he really controlled his use after being on them for months. He is just not an addict, only was dependant for months.
Then, he meets me. We get to be friends, and share an office and I soon find out he has unfilled scripts for oxy 40's and perc 10's. I ask, why have you not filled them? He says that he does not need them, except on occasion. Plus he cannot afford to fill them. Then he says he has been hurting lately, but does not want to pay for the scripts.
I offered to pay for a script, if he would give me half. I had been off of vics and clean, for 3 months at this point. He filled one script for the percs. My half ended up being about 70 of the 90 we had. He could not believe how fast I took them.
Then they ran out. So, of course, I asked him to fill the oxys. He said no, he did not want me to get hooked. I assured him that I did this all the time, and look at me, I'm fine. Plus, I can be persuasive, especially when it comes to pills.
This repeated until there were no more scripts. He had already stopped going to the dr. by the time we met. I took a couple of days off to WD. I thought it would be like all the times I came off of vics. Boy, did I learn the hard way.
He did not know how sick I was. When 2 days was not enough to get back to normal, I started calling my dr. friends and going to visit all of the people I knew that had pills. He thought I came off of them just fine.
I was up to 170mg per day, and people were really getting sick of me asking for pills. I still cannot believe what I did to myself in three months. I finally told my friend that I had still been using and that I had a problem. He talked me into telling my husband and getting help, so I did. He had to bring me pills so I could drive to the suboxone clinic. All I could think was, I can't believe he has 2 pills left and never gave them to me before. At the same time thinking, thank god he has 2 pills left that he never gave me.
He has not taken another pill since he saw me in WD that morning. He even broke his arm and did not take pills.
You guys all know the rest of my story.
Now back to the dr. that wrote those scripts. What the fu*k was he thinking? That my friend still had the same pain that he had after the surgery? He never even asked! He would just go, and the dr. would just write them out and say see ya next month.
He also gives a family member 360 percs per month for back pain. She rarely takes them. I always did though.
I see this dr. at professional events from time to time. A big part of we wants to tell him this story. I want to just walk up to him at a business/social function and rattle it off. But, I cannot. My husband is a dr. also and this would not sit well in our little community.
Wow. I guess I am a bit angry at him. I think I'm going to go to bed and thank god that the oxys are out of my life. Now if I can just get off of the suboxone.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Atlas, my old pill dr was like that, too. He was a D.O. as well.
My friend Steve was getting oxycontin, oxycodone, and ambien from him.
My friend went to TX, and told the doc no more. Well, the good ole chap that he is, gave in, and Steve died. Overdose, or suicide...I think it was an overdose based on the evidence.
He gave me oxy to get off of ultramm knowing that I had been to TX TWICE for opiates. When I was clean, he offered me xanax. I turned him down...he said.."Better life through chemistry." After feeling the effects of xanax, just .5 to 1mg a day, I wanted to slap him.
How many unsuspecting victims have had such consequence? I know that those pills took so much away...I don't know if I will ever be normal again.
The first time, when I wanted to stop, he told me that it would be too emotional.
He upped the script to 240 10mg norcos. I had just ate 180 in 10 days....
Balme him? I do for the first part....up until TX. Then, it was all me. However, I think that the damage was done, and my brain couldn't handle living sober. I was whacked. Still am, I suppose...lol.
I also personally believe that oxy shouldn't be given unless you are terminal. Period.
My friend Steve was getting oxycontin, oxycodone, and ambien from him.
My friend went to TX, and told the doc no more. Well, the good ole chap that he is, gave in, and Steve died. Overdose, or suicide...I think it was an overdose based on the evidence.
He gave me oxy to get off of ultramm knowing that I had been to TX TWICE for opiates. When I was clean, he offered me xanax. I turned him down...he said.."Better life through chemistry." After feeling the effects of xanax, just .5 to 1mg a day, I wanted to slap him.
How many unsuspecting victims have had such consequence? I know that those pills took so much away...I don't know if I will ever be normal again.
The first time, when I wanted to stop, he told me that it would be too emotional.
He upped the script to 240 10mg norcos. I had just ate 180 in 10 days....
Balme him? I do for the first part....up until TX. Then, it was all me. However, I think that the damage was done, and my brain couldn't handle living sober. I was whacked. Still am, I suppose...lol.
I also personally believe that oxy shouldn't be given unless you are terminal. Period.
Oh, this one does get me.
I have found, through AA, that even though we are "powerless" over controlling intake, we are NOT powerless over whether there is any intake at all. In AA it is said, The problem isn't alcohol, the problem is us (just substitute your favorite opiate pill for alcohol).
It is a fact that many people can take pain pills and not get addicted. Just because I had a problem doesn't mean everyone is going to have a problem, even with oxycontin. All I can say is in my experience, I KNEW when my usage was getting out of control. I KNEW, when I was taking them for the high, not for my migraines. I did NOT explore non-opiod options. Of course did I tell the doctor about my usage? Heck no, I wanted more pills. I lied to get more and did some more things I won't even talk about. I am responsible, not the doctor. AA says without rigorous honesty, recovery is not possible. That honesty is possible if you are WILLING to think it is possible.
So what if someone has a problem with pain pills? Tell your doctor. Are they still willing to prescribe? Find another doctor who won't. Use therapy, AA/NA, church, whatever. Opiate addicts' brains aren't more damaged than any other addicts' brain, they aren't "special" (You want to see some brain damage, look at methamphetamine addicts' brains. Yet even they can recover)
As for less oxycontin prescribing (used for severe pain only) ? Probably would help. But I see alot of folks in this forum, including this person, who ran into trouble with much less potent stuff. Should doctors massively reduce prescribing opiates just because I ran into trouble? My answer is NO. I have family member who use the medicine as prescribed, so I know it can be done, just not by me.
As for blaming companies, like Purdue-Pharma, eh. Yeah, they over advertised and misrepresented their product as being less addictive, should be fined on that. Should Oxycontin be banned? No, they still produce MS Contin, which is only nominally less "zutchy". The only reason they made Oxycontin is that their patent on MS Contin was running out.
As I always say, if we blame the companies and the doctors for our addiction, do the alcoholics get to blame Seagram and Miller, or the bartender, for theirs? And don't tell me that alcohol is somehow less trouble, come to an AA meeting if you don't believe me and just see the damage done. In many cases, it is far worse than what I went through. Its that same old thing again. Anyone would get addicted to OxyContin, but if you get addicted to alcohol, something is wrong with you . I just find that thinking so wrong. It is why I go to AA. They don't "blame" anyone. They just know they have to work on their side of the street.
Its a book here, but I really wanted to make sure I said what I mean. This really strikes a chord in me. Why? I really want to make sure that I stay responsible for all my actions. I must not worry about others inventories, only mine.
I have found, through AA, that even though we are "powerless" over controlling intake, we are NOT powerless over whether there is any intake at all. In AA it is said, The problem isn't alcohol, the problem is us (just substitute your favorite opiate pill for alcohol).
It is a fact that many people can take pain pills and not get addicted. Just because I had a problem doesn't mean everyone is going to have a problem, even with oxycontin. All I can say is in my experience, I KNEW when my usage was getting out of control. I KNEW, when I was taking them for the high, not for my migraines. I did NOT explore non-opiod options. Of course did I tell the doctor about my usage? Heck no, I wanted more pills. I lied to get more and did some more things I won't even talk about. I am responsible, not the doctor. AA says without rigorous honesty, recovery is not possible. That honesty is possible if you are WILLING to think it is possible.
So what if someone has a problem with pain pills? Tell your doctor. Are they still willing to prescribe? Find another doctor who won't. Use therapy, AA/NA, church, whatever. Opiate addicts' brains aren't more damaged than any other addicts' brain, they aren't "special" (You want to see some brain damage, look at methamphetamine addicts' brains. Yet even they can recover)
As for less oxycontin prescribing (used for severe pain only) ? Probably would help. But I see alot of folks in this forum, including this person, who ran into trouble with much less potent stuff. Should doctors massively reduce prescribing opiates just because I ran into trouble? My answer is NO. I have family member who use the medicine as prescribed, so I know it can be done, just not by me.
As for blaming companies, like Purdue-Pharma, eh. Yeah, they over advertised and misrepresented their product as being less addictive, should be fined on that. Should Oxycontin be banned? No, they still produce MS Contin, which is only nominally less "zutchy". The only reason they made Oxycontin is that their patent on MS Contin was running out.
As I always say, if we blame the companies and the doctors for our addiction, do the alcoholics get to blame Seagram and Miller, or the bartender, for theirs? And don't tell me that alcohol is somehow less trouble, come to an AA meeting if you don't believe me and just see the damage done. In many cases, it is far worse than what I went through. Its that same old thing again. Anyone would get addicted to OxyContin, but if you get addicted to alcohol, something is wrong with you . I just find that thinking so wrong. It is why I go to AA. They don't "blame" anyone. They just know they have to work on their side of the street.
Its a book here, but I really wanted to make sure I said what I mean. This really strikes a chord in me. Why? I really want to make sure that I stay responsible for all my actions. I must not worry about others inventories, only mine.
Elim,
I mostly agree with what you are saying. I take full responsibility for my actions. I just wonder why doctors just keep writing scripts without even ASKING or EVALUATING the patient's pain level. For a doctor to assume that a patient's pain level is exactly the same as it was months earlier, that is negligent. Doctors have a responsibility monitor their patients. If my friend mentioned above WAS actually at the same pain level months after surgery, that dr. needs to be trying to figure out WHY. Insted, he just kept writing scripts and asking no questions. In my book, that is wrong.
Atlas
I mostly agree with what you are saying. I take full responsibility for my actions. I just wonder why doctors just keep writing scripts without even ASKING or EVALUATING the patient's pain level. For a doctor to assume that a patient's pain level is exactly the same as it was months earlier, that is negligent. Doctors have a responsibility monitor their patients. If my friend mentioned above WAS actually at the same pain level months after surgery, that dr. needs to be trying to figure out WHY. Insted, he just kept writing scripts and asking no questions. In my book, that is wrong.
Atlas
From what I have learned and witnessed alone, if I were a doctor, I would hand out this medication on the strictest terms. There are many doctors who ARE strict with what they hand out though and I obviously the addict searches for the doctor who is not. I just believe if ALL doctors had a stronger code of when to dispense painkillers, less people would be effected. I cant say this for a fact, but it seems to me that this drug is way more dangerous that pot which is illegal. Something is just now working in the stupid "war on drugs".
And yes Elim, I agree with what you say as well. I have limits and would not entertain visiting drugs such as oxy or cocaine, etc. It is up to each of us to control ourselves. But I am speaking simply to the smallest root of the problem which I believe lies in doctors giving this out like candy. It is NOT candy and they should be smart enough to know that.
The first time I went doc shopping I didn't even know that was what I was doing.
I had been getting the pills through my regular HMO when I started a new job that offered a different health plan. I continued to pay the high monthly rates about 540.00 to stay on the HMO to get my pills and then went through my work's health plan and started seeing a second doctor that I had heard over the years wrote scripts out pretty easy.
The first thing the doc wanted to know was if I was doctor shopping. Foolishl, I said yes, I didn't even know what doctor shopping was at the time so I just agreed with him.
From this board, I now know what doctor shopping is. But.. what gets me is this doctor asked me this question right up front. It was like HE knew about it before I even did.
Anyway, there are docs out there that know exactly what they are doing.
Lovebird
I had been getting the pills through my regular HMO when I started a new job that offered a different health plan. I continued to pay the high monthly rates about 540.00 to stay on the HMO to get my pills and then went through my work's health plan and started seeing a second doctor that I had heard over the years wrote scripts out pretty easy.
The first thing the doc wanted to know was if I was doctor shopping. Foolishl, I said yes, I didn't even know what doctor shopping was at the time so I just agreed with him.
From this board, I now know what doctor shopping is. But.. what gets me is this doctor asked me this question right up front. It was like HE knew about it before I even did.
Anyway, there are docs out there that know exactly what they are doing.
Lovebird
Yeah, there are doctors who hand opiates out like Pez, but anyone serious about recovery will do all they can to avoid them, just like an alcoholic avoids bars.
There are doctors who are very stingy with pain pills, too stingy, just as there are doctors who are too liberal with them. There can be a happy medium, just what that is, who knows?
Serious pain patients should not have to suffer because of our misdeeds. If we want more security, I guess doctor's should have a database for each patient so they can easily keep track. Of course, that would assume people are not doctor shopping..or buying pills off other people....or obtaining internet drugs or other illegal methods ad infinitum.....
Perhaps we should have people who are prescribed pain meds have to take random blood and hair tests to check for short-term and long-term drug usage. I would also recommend lie detector tests. Lord knows I would failed that.....
Just how far do we want to go? Do you really want someone to watch over you like that? I think of one of my favority philosophers, Immanuel Kant. The long and short of him is that for any action to be considered good, one should consider whether one would want everyone doing that same action.
I just saw a post on a different thread here where the doctor didn't like the amount this person was taking and wanted to stop it, and this person is saying "No, I need this" If the doctor says no, people consider them a monster, but if they say yes, oh now they are enabling. You don't get this both ways...not in my book.
There are doctors who are very stingy with pain pills, too stingy, just as there are doctors who are too liberal with them. There can be a happy medium, just what that is, who knows?
Serious pain patients should not have to suffer because of our misdeeds. If we want more security, I guess doctor's should have a database for each patient so they can easily keep track. Of course, that would assume people are not doctor shopping..or buying pills off other people....or obtaining internet drugs or other illegal methods ad infinitum.....
Perhaps we should have people who are prescribed pain meds have to take random blood and hair tests to check for short-term and long-term drug usage. I would also recommend lie detector tests. Lord knows I would failed that.....
Just how far do we want to go? Do you really want someone to watch over you like that? I think of one of my favority philosophers, Immanuel Kant. The long and short of him is that for any action to be considered good, one should consider whether one would want everyone doing that same action.
I just saw a post on a different thread here where the doctor didn't like the amount this person was taking and wanted to stop it, and this person is saying "No, I need this" If the doctor says no, people consider them a monster, but if they say yes, oh now they are enabling. You don't get this both ways...not in my book.
Elim,
Sure, addicts in recovery should avoid these types of doctors, and we know this. I am speaking of the addict who is not in recovery, and may not even be aware that they are an addict, or in denial. Those are the people who seek these dr.s out.
Some dr.s do random drug tests to ensure that the patient is taking the meds as directed. Or, in case nothing shows up in their system. That is a red flag that the person is selling them.
Are you serious about lie detector tests? Most people are not addicts. This is an invasion of privacy. Not to mention it would be humiliating and degrading to all people. MOST people will use their meds as directed, and should not be subjected to criminal treatment just to get them. The only thing this would accomplish, would be to keep people away who really need to have their pain controlled. I personally do not know anyone who would agree to something like this, addict or not. Non-addcits should not have to be punished because a few of us abused our drugs.
Atlas
Sure, addicts in recovery should avoid these types of doctors, and we know this. I am speaking of the addict who is not in recovery, and may not even be aware that they are an addict, or in denial. Those are the people who seek these dr.s out.
Some dr.s do random drug tests to ensure that the patient is taking the meds as directed. Or, in case nothing shows up in their system. That is a red flag that the person is selling them.
Are you serious about lie detector tests? Most people are not addicts. This is an invasion of privacy. Not to mention it would be humiliating and degrading to all people. MOST people will use their meds as directed, and should not be subjected to criminal treatment just to get them. The only thing this would accomplish, would be to keep people away who really need to have their pain controlled. I personally do not know anyone who would agree to something like this, addict or not. Non-addcits should not have to be punished because a few of us abused our drugs.
Atlas
Atlas
No, I was being highly facetious about lie detector tests, though the blood tests just looking for painkillers could also be taken offensively as a lack of trust. Hair tests would also be much better as it gives a using history. And oh, by the way, I would also test for alcohol usage as well. (when I started IOP, a test had just came out that looked at liver cytochrome P450 levels. They would take the level one day, then test again at random intervals, and alcohol use within the past 72 hours would spike that level)
As for "tightening" prescriptions, what does that really mean? We would need criteria such as:
1) For any one patient, only a certain amount of painkiller can be prescribed for a certain time. Period, then we need automatic cutoffs. Ugh, I am not sure I like that one.
2) For any given injury/malady, only painkillers of certain strengths can be given at with dosage maximum limits. Problem, who decides which maladies can get what and how much. Who decides how much pain someone has. A good example of this is found in a 1990 Scientific American Special Medical Edition. In there there was an article on pain. They were looking at people with disk degeneration. All those people complaining of pain, did have disk degeneration, but not all those showing the same extent of degeneration complained of pain.
3) The DEA already is going after pill mill doctors, they could redouble their efforts, but that takes time and money. After all, we are having a "War on Drugs", and they are strapped gunning after the coke/meth and smack dealers.
You could check the drug levels all you want, but if a person is complaining of pain, what is the doctor supposed to do? Assume they are lying and cut them off ala Option 1)?
All I can tell you is I got very little from my docs, I bought mine from others who were prescribed a bunch and other methods. As for buying them from someone who was prescribed them (and didn't need them). That person is the one who lied to the doctor, that is the person who was willing to sell them. And, more tellingly, I was the one willing to buy them......
Again, I go back to this, should we hold bartenders or liquor store clerks responsible for alkies and refuse service to anyone they "deem" to be an alcoholic? We don't do this, why doctors? We blame drug dealers, doctors, yet not Seagrams and Miller. God, that is hilarious.
No, I was being highly facetious about lie detector tests, though the blood tests just looking for painkillers could also be taken offensively as a lack of trust. Hair tests would also be much better as it gives a using history. And oh, by the way, I would also test for alcohol usage as well. (when I started IOP, a test had just came out that looked at liver cytochrome P450 levels. They would take the level one day, then test again at random intervals, and alcohol use within the past 72 hours would spike that level)
As for "tightening" prescriptions, what does that really mean? We would need criteria such as:
1) For any one patient, only a certain amount of painkiller can be prescribed for a certain time. Period, then we need automatic cutoffs. Ugh, I am not sure I like that one.
2) For any given injury/malady, only painkillers of certain strengths can be given at with dosage maximum limits. Problem, who decides which maladies can get what and how much. Who decides how much pain someone has. A good example of this is found in a 1990 Scientific American Special Medical Edition. In there there was an article on pain. They were looking at people with disk degeneration. All those people complaining of pain, did have disk degeneration, but not all those showing the same extent of degeneration complained of pain.
3) The DEA already is going after pill mill doctors, they could redouble their efforts, but that takes time and money. After all, we are having a "War on Drugs", and they are strapped gunning after the coke/meth and smack dealers.
You could check the drug levels all you want, but if a person is complaining of pain, what is the doctor supposed to do? Assume they are lying and cut them off ala Option 1)?
All I can tell you is I got very little from my docs, I bought mine from others who were prescribed a bunch and other methods. As for buying them from someone who was prescribed them (and didn't need them). That person is the one who lied to the doctor, that is the person who was willing to sell them. And, more tellingly, I was the one willing to buy them......
Again, I go back to this, should we hold bartenders or liquor store clerks responsible for alkies and refuse service to anyone they "deem" to be an alcoholic? We don't do this, why doctors? We blame drug dealers, doctors, yet not Seagrams and Miller. God, that is hilarious.
I for one would not have had such a relationship with pills if my doctor didnt make it so easy for me. I trusted his judgement on renewing whenever I asked.
And while I realized for awhile that I was getting too use to the pills, it was THIS sight that brought it home for me. Not my doctor. My point is not putting total blame on doctors, but rather there needs to be alot more public awareness on this. Dont get so political for heavens sake.
Total blame does not go to the doctors who do this, but they certainly do have a role in this process. The doctor never even asked my friend if he was in pain. He was not lying to get the scripts. He was saving them up because he was losing his insurance, and worried he might need them again. He knew nothing about addiction. He does now. Luckily, he got to learn the easy way, by watching me learn (and continue to learn) the hard way.
Bartenders are sometimes held accountable for their actions. I was a bartender in Virginia, and it is against the law to serve a 'known alcoholic" or an intoxicated person. There have been many incidents where a bartender has been held accountable for their actions. Doctors who just write scripts recklessly are nothing more than "pilltenders."
Bartenders are sometimes held accountable for their actions. I was a bartender in Virginia, and it is against the law to serve a 'known alcoholic" or an intoxicated person. There have been many incidents where a bartender has been held accountable for their actions. Doctors who just write scripts recklessly are nothing more than "pilltenders."
I stand by my statements. As for being politicial, I was merely trying to point out society's absurdity regarding different standards for different drugs. Alcohol still gets the pass, for better or worse.
For me, all the responsibility depends upon me, I worry about my side of the street only. I am the one who obtained the drugs illegally and lied to my doctors, they didn't shove these down my throat. For me, staying accountable, means staying clean and sober. Gosh, where is Tim when you need him. He put it better than I ever could....
For me, all the responsibility depends upon me, I worry about my side of the street only. I am the one who obtained the drugs illegally and lied to my doctors, they didn't shove these down my throat. For me, staying accountable, means staying clean and sober. Gosh, where is Tim when you need him. He put it better than I ever could....
Hello, I totally agree with you and think there should be more done about these doctors as I like to call them paid drug pushers with a liscense to sell whatever they want.
When I first got home from california, I had heard of this doctor who prescribes anything you want. He was of course a pain mangement doctor. When I went to him I told him I had my tailbone removed and he never examined me or asked me if it hurt or even took an xray.
He ended up writng me for 300 morphine pills at 120 milligrams each along with somas, xanax and percocets and I had told my bestfrends mother about this doctor but then again she was in denial about her using who was also an addict but never admittted it. She said she would take them for her back. sure she was....anyway this doctor ended up writng her the same stuff he had written me. He also told me that lynne my bestfriends mother had told him that I overdosed in california and was an addict.
Well the next time I went to see him he told me what she had said and said that he already knew I was an addict and he would rather me get them from him then go buy them on the streets.
He told lynne the same thing. and about two months ago she overdosed for her first time and died. She had only taken what was prescribe to her but that was just way to high of a dosage to put anyone on.Well she died and it really hit home with me because I have overdosed 9 times in the last 2 and a half years. I always had someone there to find me. The hospital called him and told him I had overdosed on the meds he had written me. He totally told me he knew and wasnt it his responsibilty to say no or to get me some help instead of feeding my addiction. Well I was so sick because I had ran out of meds and found another pain specialist who asked me what I wanted and never examined me or took any xrays, He asked me how much methadone I had been taking I told him two hundred millgrams a day He never once called the clinic or asked me to get any paper work from me going there. He just took out his pad and wrote me for two hundred miligrams a day of methadone and 4 of the xanax bars a day and also percocets. Well, once again I had overdosed and the hospital called him like they did my other doctor and do you know he never cut me off or tried to get me help.
I am so disgusted with doctors they have this better than thou attitude. I worked for a podatrist and he had people calling him two days after surgeries and asking me to ask the doctor if they could get a refill on the lorabids or loratids or something like that. I would say are you talking about hydrocodone and they would say yeah thats the name. I am hurting so bad. Well. I said jeff dont you know they are only drug seeking and he said so what at least I am not loosing patience another time we had a room full of patients and I was like jeff we need to start bringing them on back and he said. I am the doctor and I am on the computer so they will just have to wait. Then a woman came in there and said she was a recovering addict to please not give her anything narcotic after her surgery.
So after her surgery he gave me the script to give to her and I looked at and told him this was a narcotic. It was darvacet. I know that is a very mild narcotic but it was the point that he was so ignorant in his proffesion
Well, about lynne dying, I blame dr heilem for her death. He knew she was an addict but continued to write her scripts. So about almost two months ago I had to go to this womans funeral and I could not understand why god had given me so many chances and had not given her any. I had my spirtitual awakening then.
and thought my god that could have been me and she was so pretty and looked so peaceful. The only thing that keeps me from being sad is knowing she is out of pain and not having to deal with her addiction any longer. I just wished she could have experinced recovery before she died an known what a wonderful feeling it would be to not have to grab for her pill bottle every morning and live like that anymore.
Well, the next doctor I went to was doctor crudo because doctor heilem cut me off and would not even speak to me. I thought he was in the wrong there.
Anyway, I started overdosing on the methadoone that he gave so freely out to me and he was called but more than once and did he ever cut me off or warn me about them. I talked to a lawyer and he said if I could get my records from his office and he did have me on all this stuff and get my medical records from the ER that we would definetly have a case against him. He never checked me out and I probably only saw him within a years time at the most 3 times the other times the nurse would always take my payment and give me my prescription. There were always people there at his office just dying to get in to get there drug of choice and there was nothing wrong with me so should he not be responsible for his carelessness on what he was giving me even after the ER had called him more than once and told him I had been in there several times from an overdose off of his prescriptions and he never once even brought it up and you could go in there and ask him to give you oxycontins and he would not hesitate to write you for the 80 milligrams which only last me a week because I was taking 10 at a time. but I never overdosed on the oxys I always overdosed on the methadone and the xanax. Does he not have a clue to how dangerous those two together are, very bad and can cause you to overdose and it is very dangerous.
Well, I am going to go get my records from his ofice this week and my ER records and take it to my lawyers office. He was only wanting to get his money
the only reason I would file a lawsuitia to stop them from killing people by overmedicating them. I take full responsibilty in my drug career but it just pisses me off that he can write whatever he wants. Pain or no pain because he is a pain specailist and its not for the money I want him to be shut down.
I know we have all been doctor shopping at onetime or another and it just makes me sick knowing they knew why I was there
I am also pissed that the other doctor, DR.Heliem gave my bestfriends mother who was like family to me that if he could have stopped her from this behavoir and not be an enabler
These pain mangement doctors will write whatever whenever when you have that cash available. Now that I have a clear head on me I feel like he was inabling me to keep using and when I told him I wanted off of them he told me it would at least take a very slow tapering of like 2 milligrams every two weeks. So I would have either died staying on that stuff or I would be putting my life on hold so I could get through the slow tapering process and that is why I had to stop cold turkey. Which was the most horrifying things I have ever gone through. For ten months I was so physically ill and could not even talk or sleep and all I did was shake and have my heartbeating very high at alll times and also went into a seizure and got down to 67 pounds from throwing up for two months straight.
. I sit back and look at this man and think what a f-----k idiot he is and he is suppose to be trying to help people not get them hooked on drugs. I am always seeing commercials for pot and and you see things on cocaine and alcohol but when are they going to start stopping these doctors into giving people what they want.
Again, I take full responsibilty in my drugging and getting drugs but he is not stupid he knew why I was there and he just didnt give a damn.
I totally beleive in karma and he will get what is coming back.. I have tried to talk to my bestfriend tish and tell her she cold sue him.. She can barely live on a day to day basis because she never excpected her mother overdosing accidentally and she told me that they were all talking one night about me before I got clean and was waiting to get a call to come to my funeral because I was overdosing everytime you would turn around.
I had talked to her two days before she died and she told me how great I sounded that I wasn't so out of it and she could actutally understand what I was saying and knew I was clean and told me how proud she was of me. It is still very hard for me to except that she is gone and it is because of this idiot doctor money hungry, I have no conscence lisences to give whatever they want and dont give a damn. I was so sick physically and mentally that he should have known I was only comeing there to get my drugs. He will get whats coming to him because I know he has gotten alot of people hooked on pain medication. These opiates and benzos are either killing people or making there life misrable. I know he enabled me to keep using but does he have no conscience. I will never understand why the dea doesnt look into this more often because I dont know how yall got your doc but I went to the doctor and had nothing wrong with me and if you are buying it off the streets they are sill contributing to peoples life. Where else would the drugs come from. You cant grow it and its man made and its all these idiot doctors. I could go on and on how I feel about doctors now I know there are some decent doctors also that really look out for your well being but not these two doctors.
anyway, I wish there was some bigger laws to obtain these prescriptions but only if you absolutly needed them. Both doctors knew I was drug seeking and they could have gotten a little more information about my history and what is really wrong with me and go from there. But hell no they will keep on prescribing narcotics as long as the law let them. . Now that I am clean I feel sorry for the ones that are not out drug seeking but get hooked because they are given so many drugs and at large amounts you know it because this disease will get you anytime it can. No matter what, they will soon be taking over your life. thats my feelings on the prescription epdemic. Sincerly,
April
When I first got home from california, I had heard of this doctor who prescribes anything you want. He was of course a pain mangement doctor. When I went to him I told him I had my tailbone removed and he never examined me or asked me if it hurt or even took an xray.
He ended up writng me for 300 morphine pills at 120 milligrams each along with somas, xanax and percocets and I had told my bestfrends mother about this doctor but then again she was in denial about her using who was also an addict but never admittted it. She said she would take them for her back. sure she was....anyway this doctor ended up writng her the same stuff he had written me. He also told me that lynne my bestfriends mother had told him that I overdosed in california and was an addict.
Well the next time I went to see him he told me what she had said and said that he already knew I was an addict and he would rather me get them from him then go buy them on the streets.
He told lynne the same thing. and about two months ago she overdosed for her first time and died. She had only taken what was prescribe to her but that was just way to high of a dosage to put anyone on.Well she died and it really hit home with me because I have overdosed 9 times in the last 2 and a half years. I always had someone there to find me. The hospital called him and told him I had overdosed on the meds he had written me. He totally told me he knew and wasnt it his responsibilty to say no or to get me some help instead of feeding my addiction. Well I was so sick because I had ran out of meds and found another pain specialist who asked me what I wanted and never examined me or took any xrays, He asked me how much methadone I had been taking I told him two hundred millgrams a day He never once called the clinic or asked me to get any paper work from me going there. He just took out his pad and wrote me for two hundred miligrams a day of methadone and 4 of the xanax bars a day and also percocets. Well, once again I had overdosed and the hospital called him like they did my other doctor and do you know he never cut me off or tried to get me help.
I am so disgusted with doctors they have this better than thou attitude. I worked for a podatrist and he had people calling him two days after surgeries and asking me to ask the doctor if they could get a refill on the lorabids or loratids or something like that. I would say are you talking about hydrocodone and they would say yeah thats the name. I am hurting so bad. Well. I said jeff dont you know they are only drug seeking and he said so what at least I am not loosing patience another time we had a room full of patients and I was like jeff we need to start bringing them on back and he said. I am the doctor and I am on the computer so they will just have to wait. Then a woman came in there and said she was a recovering addict to please not give her anything narcotic after her surgery.
So after her surgery he gave me the script to give to her and I looked at and told him this was a narcotic. It was darvacet. I know that is a very mild narcotic but it was the point that he was so ignorant in his proffesion
Well, about lynne dying, I blame dr heilem for her death. He knew she was an addict but continued to write her scripts. So about almost two months ago I had to go to this womans funeral and I could not understand why god had given me so many chances and had not given her any. I had my spirtitual awakening then.
and thought my god that could have been me and she was so pretty and looked so peaceful. The only thing that keeps me from being sad is knowing she is out of pain and not having to deal with her addiction any longer. I just wished she could have experinced recovery before she died an known what a wonderful feeling it would be to not have to grab for her pill bottle every morning and live like that anymore.
Well, the next doctor I went to was doctor crudo because doctor heilem cut me off and would not even speak to me. I thought he was in the wrong there.
Anyway, I started overdosing on the methadoone that he gave so freely out to me and he was called but more than once and did he ever cut me off or warn me about them. I talked to a lawyer and he said if I could get my records from his office and he did have me on all this stuff and get my medical records from the ER that we would definetly have a case against him. He never checked me out and I probably only saw him within a years time at the most 3 times the other times the nurse would always take my payment and give me my prescription. There were always people there at his office just dying to get in to get there drug of choice and there was nothing wrong with me so should he not be responsible for his carelessness on what he was giving me even after the ER had called him more than once and told him I had been in there several times from an overdose off of his prescriptions and he never once even brought it up and you could go in there and ask him to give you oxycontins and he would not hesitate to write you for the 80 milligrams which only last me a week because I was taking 10 at a time. but I never overdosed on the oxys I always overdosed on the methadone and the xanax. Does he not have a clue to how dangerous those two together are, very bad and can cause you to overdose and it is very dangerous.
Well, I am going to go get my records from his ofice this week and my ER records and take it to my lawyers office. He was only wanting to get his money
the only reason I would file a lawsuitia to stop them from killing people by overmedicating them. I take full responsibilty in my drug career but it just pisses me off that he can write whatever he wants. Pain or no pain because he is a pain specailist and its not for the money I want him to be shut down.
I know we have all been doctor shopping at onetime or another and it just makes me sick knowing they knew why I was there
I am also pissed that the other doctor, DR.Heliem gave my bestfriends mother who was like family to me that if he could have stopped her from this behavoir and not be an enabler
These pain mangement doctors will write whatever whenever when you have that cash available. Now that I have a clear head on me I feel like he was inabling me to keep using and when I told him I wanted off of them he told me it would at least take a very slow tapering of like 2 milligrams every two weeks. So I would have either died staying on that stuff or I would be putting my life on hold so I could get through the slow tapering process and that is why I had to stop cold turkey. Which was the most horrifying things I have ever gone through. For ten months I was so physically ill and could not even talk or sleep and all I did was shake and have my heartbeating very high at alll times and also went into a seizure and got down to 67 pounds from throwing up for two months straight.
. I sit back and look at this man and think what a f-----k idiot he is and he is suppose to be trying to help people not get them hooked on drugs. I am always seeing commercials for pot and and you see things on cocaine and alcohol but when are they going to start stopping these doctors into giving people what they want.
Again, I take full responsibilty in my drugging and getting drugs but he is not stupid he knew why I was there and he just didnt give a damn.
I totally beleive in karma and he will get what is coming back.. I have tried to talk to my bestfriend tish and tell her she cold sue him.. She can barely live on a day to day basis because she never excpected her mother overdosing accidentally and she told me that they were all talking one night about me before I got clean and was waiting to get a call to come to my funeral because I was overdosing everytime you would turn around.
I had talked to her two days before she died and she told me how great I sounded that I wasn't so out of it and she could actutally understand what I was saying and knew I was clean and told me how proud she was of me. It is still very hard for me to except that she is gone and it is because of this idiot doctor money hungry, I have no conscence lisences to give whatever they want and dont give a damn. I was so sick physically and mentally that he should have known I was only comeing there to get my drugs. He will get whats coming to him because I know he has gotten alot of people hooked on pain medication. These opiates and benzos are either killing people or making there life misrable. I know he enabled me to keep using but does he have no conscience. I will never understand why the dea doesnt look into this more often because I dont know how yall got your doc but I went to the doctor and had nothing wrong with me and if you are buying it off the streets they are sill contributing to peoples life. Where else would the drugs come from. You cant grow it and its man made and its all these idiot doctors. I could go on and on how I feel about doctors now I know there are some decent doctors also that really look out for your well being but not these two doctors.
anyway, I wish there was some bigger laws to obtain these prescriptions but only if you absolutly needed them. Both doctors knew I was drug seeking and they could have gotten a little more information about my history and what is really wrong with me and go from there. But hell no they will keep on prescribing narcotics as long as the law let them. . Now that I am clean I feel sorry for the ones that are not out drug seeking but get hooked because they are given so many drugs and at large amounts you know it because this disease will get you anytime it can. No matter what, they will soon be taking over your life. thats my feelings on the prescription epdemic. Sincerly,
April
I understand and respect what you are saying, and agree with you to a point. We certainly are responsible for our actions. Nobody force fed me pills. I know that the person responsible for my addiction is me, and only me.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Atlas
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Atlas