Hi All, First off, totally apologize for setting off fire works on that other thread, I knew better and yet I did it anyways...seems to be one of many of my character defects...even when I KNOW I should shut my mouth I dont. Anyways, I have a question for the steppers. I am new to the program, first time round for me actually and Im still at step, well lets say 3..yes, well...Im a bit slow I guess...Im having trouble trusting/believing in a God, or higher power if you will that to me makes me frightened. I am so afraid to let go and trust in something beyond me. Im frightened that if I do something bad will happen. yes, I know its a control thing. Yes and Yes...but damn it, truly, I just cant seem to do it. Has anyone else worked through this ? I would appreciate any advice, and yes, even a kick in the a**. Im a recovering heroin addict and finally I guess I can admit, an alcoholic. I would drink if I didnt have drugs, I would drink on top of the drugs. I know I cant stop the drugs but I wonder sometimes about the alcohol...safe to say, rather not test it at this point. Im on methadone and thats enough and that already screws with my head if I get into it with the 12 steps. I have to look at it like its a medicine and/or a tool that I am using in conjunction with the 12 steps. the meeting I attend are AA. There are no NA meetings where I am located. I like my group and it doesnt bother me its an AA group. I feel as if I belong there. Anyways, so thats the background info. Any advice is appreciated.
Hi Con,
You didn't start any fireworks. You stated your truth at the time, as did everyone else. I'm slowly learning just how much of what I assume someone means in a post (or a conversation) is my own interpretation of the emotional content. Human beings project our own stuff onto each other all the time and then react to that. That's one reason I was so scared of my ex's drinking - I was really scared of my own but in denial about it, so I projected my fear about drinking onto her and wanted her to stop......I didn't have a thought in the world about dealing with my own drinking, depression, anger....etc...Anyway, that's a digression.
Even if you have a go at me, I can always CHOOSE how I respond, and the quality of my response is the measure of my maturity. That's not to say that if I throw a tantrum I'm a bad person or should do better, just that I have the opportunity to take a few more steps towards the kind of response I want to have in such situations....hey, life is ok....it's working as it should...
Blimey, up too early this morning...lol...rambling on.
It doesn't matter whether you believe or not Con. I didn't. And I'm quite tough as well and would fix everything myself. Which meant that I had to break completely before I gave up hope and made room in my life for a Power and a Love beyond all understanding.
The God thing really cannot be understood Con - well actually I mean I can't understand it lol...it's not a rational "head" thing for me, it's a "heart" thing. I had closed the door on "God" 35 years ago and He'd walked patiently alongside me all that time waiting until the abyss opened beneath my feet and He just reached out and gently took me in His arms and carried me without a word of reproach or judgement or sadness....and He put me down again when I had strnegth to stand.....now it's up to me what kind of relationship we have....or rather, what kind of relationship I have....because He will love me anyway, whatever I do, however I am, whatever I say, forget, feel, think, believe. Love never fails, as they say. And He is Love.
BUT....you don't have to believe all that....all you need to recognise is that alcohol and drugs f*** your brain and your thinking and your emotions and that if you continue to rely on them you will continue to be f***ed. We alcoholics (and neurotics and/or personality disordered types like me) NEED to LISTEN to people who know how we can heal. We NEED to TRUST - which is so difficult for many of us (me) because our trust was brutally, utterly betrayed and we suffered for trusting....in God we trust? Well not all of us, thanks....where was HE when I needed him?.....but the reality for THIS alcoholic and troubled child was that my emotions had become either AWOL or warped and my (clever) little mind was lined with smoke and mirrors that distorted every aspect of my understanding and judgement. What I THOUGHT was normal wasn't, and what I THOUGHT I saw, felt, knew and wanted was f***ed up. So I - I - NEEDED to accept that in this case - and in many other instances - I am truly powerless and if I was truly to accept THAT terrifying thought I needed to KNOW that someone was going to keep me safe and make it right. Well my parents were never giong to turn up and do that after 50 years, so it had to be SOMEONE else. God, a HP, a group like AA, a sponsor....the hrt little boy in me needed to FEEL SAFE....and God, a HP, a sponsor, the group, this board, the Samaritans, can all play a part in helping us feel safe and supported enough to LET GO of the self-destructive coping mechnisms that are killing us....alcohol, drugs, toxic relationships....whatever.
Sorry about the swearing - it's immature - but I am FEELING passinoate about this and right now it's more important to me to let you know I care about you than it is to be measured.
I'm glad you're looking at this. I want you to know people DO care about you. Strangers cared about me when I came here, when I went to Al-anon and when I went to AA. You've written stuff about lack of caring Con. My advice is to get out there and talk to people in AA and Al-anon and other support groups and to keep coming here. There is so much love and support in the world if we do but open ourselves to it. Good people can help us feel safe and loved and supported and that can help us find the courage to let go and heal.
And, for me, that's God's way of staying anonymous.
Con, you helped me lots of times here by letting me know someone cared. You, find God? Bless you. You're already doing His work.
You didn't start any fireworks. You stated your truth at the time, as did everyone else. I'm slowly learning just how much of what I assume someone means in a post (or a conversation) is my own interpretation of the emotional content. Human beings project our own stuff onto each other all the time and then react to that. That's one reason I was so scared of my ex's drinking - I was really scared of my own but in denial about it, so I projected my fear about drinking onto her and wanted her to stop......I didn't have a thought in the world about dealing with my own drinking, depression, anger....etc...Anyway, that's a digression.
Even if you have a go at me, I can always CHOOSE how I respond, and the quality of my response is the measure of my maturity. That's not to say that if I throw a tantrum I'm a bad person or should do better, just that I have the opportunity to take a few more steps towards the kind of response I want to have in such situations....hey, life is ok....it's working as it should...
Blimey, up too early this morning...lol...rambling on.
It doesn't matter whether you believe or not Con. I didn't. And I'm quite tough as well and would fix everything myself. Which meant that I had to break completely before I gave up hope and made room in my life for a Power and a Love beyond all understanding.
The God thing really cannot be understood Con - well actually I mean I can't understand it lol...it's not a rational "head" thing for me, it's a "heart" thing. I had closed the door on "God" 35 years ago and He'd walked patiently alongside me all that time waiting until the abyss opened beneath my feet and He just reached out and gently took me in His arms and carried me without a word of reproach or judgement or sadness....and He put me down again when I had strnegth to stand.....now it's up to me what kind of relationship we have....or rather, what kind of relationship I have....because He will love me anyway, whatever I do, however I am, whatever I say, forget, feel, think, believe. Love never fails, as they say. And He is Love.
BUT....you don't have to believe all that....all you need to recognise is that alcohol and drugs f*** your brain and your thinking and your emotions and that if you continue to rely on them you will continue to be f***ed. We alcoholics (and neurotics and/or personality disordered types like me) NEED to LISTEN to people who know how we can heal. We NEED to TRUST - which is so difficult for many of us (me) because our trust was brutally, utterly betrayed and we suffered for trusting....in God we trust? Well not all of us, thanks....where was HE when I needed him?.....but the reality for THIS alcoholic and troubled child was that my emotions had become either AWOL or warped and my (clever) little mind was lined with smoke and mirrors that distorted every aspect of my understanding and judgement. What I THOUGHT was normal wasn't, and what I THOUGHT I saw, felt, knew and wanted was f***ed up. So I - I - NEEDED to accept that in this case - and in many other instances - I am truly powerless and if I was truly to accept THAT terrifying thought I needed to KNOW that someone was going to keep me safe and make it right. Well my parents were never giong to turn up and do that after 50 years, so it had to be SOMEONE else. God, a HP, a group like AA, a sponsor....the hrt little boy in me needed to FEEL SAFE....and God, a HP, a sponsor, the group, this board, the Samaritans, can all play a part in helping us feel safe and supported enough to LET GO of the self-destructive coping mechnisms that are killing us....alcohol, drugs, toxic relationships....whatever.
Sorry about the swearing - it's immature - but I am FEELING passinoate about this and right now it's more important to me to let you know I care about you than it is to be measured.
I'm glad you're looking at this. I want you to know people DO care about you. Strangers cared about me when I came here, when I went to Al-anon and when I went to AA. You've written stuff about lack of caring Con. My advice is to get out there and talk to people in AA and Al-anon and other support groups and to keep coming here. There is so much love and support in the world if we do but open ourselves to it. Good people can help us feel safe and loved and supported and that can help us find the courage to let go and heal.
And, for me, that's God's way of staying anonymous.
Con, you helped me lots of times here by letting me know someone cared. You, find God? Bless you. You're already doing His work.
Hi Con I felt the same way about letting go. Took me a long time but I have finally done it . I had the same thoughts that something bad would happen too but you know Con God or Hp whatever one prefers to call it is not gonna do anything bad to us. We have done quite the job of that ourselves. It is so much easier to deal with things when you let go,let God and accept what comes your way. We are all on this board because we are all addicts,one method is no more better than the other. we have all come from the same place and we all have the potential to go back there. Do whatever it takes for you to stay clean and sober. You will find what you are comfortable with and what will work for you.Not everyone uses the same method or programs etc .Take care and God bless
If you were my sponsee I would tell you that step 3 is to be done after step 2..."Came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity". Until I believed that there was no way I could make a decision to turn my will and my life over to anything. Do you believe in a power greater than yourself? Do you have your own concept of God or a religious one? One step at a time, hon.
Edit to ask: do you have a sponsor?
Edit to ask: do you have a sponsor?
Hi, Constantine.
The first three steps are 'idea' steps. That is, I didn't have to DO anything, just consider that there may be a different way to approach this allergy/obsession. Do you have a Big Book? I had one for a while before getting a sponsor because I was smart enough to figure it out on my own, but it really wasn't until I had someone actually lead me through it, using examples that I could relate to, that I was able to BEGIN to understand some of the concepts.
The short version says, "I can't do this, Maybe a Higher Power can, I think I'll let Him/Her/It." Expanded, that means:
Read, "The Doctor's Opinion," on the physical addiction and it's manifestation of craving of the mind and be honest with yourself;
ALLOW yourself to consider that their MAY be a Higher Power and it could be anything from a doorknob that opens doors, a group of people trying to get sober, electricity, or another person together with yourself. Don't worry about naming conventions--just allow the possibility.
Finally, read the Appendix ii in the Big Book. It is to agnostics--like ME. Folks like ME, who've been covered up in religion for years and STILL can't understand why they're fighting or WHY everyone has to have THEIR God be in charge. Agnostics can 'make a decision' to allow a Power Greater Than Ourselves to help get through an addiction that we've been unsuccessful in overcoming ourselves. There's no moral issues, no sin, no right or wrong in finding strength outside myself--and I had to allow that possibility to exist. Once that's considered, the real 'work' begins. I was glad that I didn't have to have a clear, concise, labeled version of a a God of My Understanding because that allowed me to consider other possibilities and get on with getting The Program.
I strongly encourage you to get a sponsor who's gone through The Steps and can relate your experiences to them. I will help you understand, if you like, if you'll promise to get a Face-2-Face sponsor. E-me at sgramling@ hotmail and put "Con from ARG" in the subject if you want to.
The Twelve Steps are a simple program, but we can certainly foul them up if we make an effort. It's a design for living that I simply wasn't privvy to, apparently.
Peaceness.
The first three steps are 'idea' steps. That is, I didn't have to DO anything, just consider that there may be a different way to approach this allergy/obsession. Do you have a Big Book? I had one for a while before getting a sponsor because I was smart enough to figure it out on my own, but it really wasn't until I had someone actually lead me through it, using examples that I could relate to, that I was able to BEGIN to understand some of the concepts.
The short version says, "I can't do this, Maybe a Higher Power can, I think I'll let Him/Her/It." Expanded, that means:
Read, "The Doctor's Opinion," on the physical addiction and it's manifestation of craving of the mind and be honest with yourself;
ALLOW yourself to consider that their MAY be a Higher Power and it could be anything from a doorknob that opens doors, a group of people trying to get sober, electricity, or another person together with yourself. Don't worry about naming conventions--just allow the possibility.
Finally, read the Appendix ii in the Big Book. It is to agnostics--like ME. Folks like ME, who've been covered up in religion for years and STILL can't understand why they're fighting or WHY everyone has to have THEIR God be in charge. Agnostics can 'make a decision' to allow a Power Greater Than Ourselves to help get through an addiction that we've been unsuccessful in overcoming ourselves. There's no moral issues, no sin, no right or wrong in finding strength outside myself--and I had to allow that possibility to exist. Once that's considered, the real 'work' begins. I was glad that I didn't have to have a clear, concise, labeled version of a a God of My Understanding because that allowed me to consider other possibilities and get on with getting The Program.
I strongly encourage you to get a sponsor who's gone through The Steps and can relate your experiences to them. I will help you understand, if you like, if you'll promise to get a Face-2-Face sponsor. E-me at sgramling@ hotmail and put "Con from ARG" in the subject if you want to.
The Twelve Steps are a simple program, but we can certainly foul them up if we make an effort. It's a design for living that I simply wasn't privvy to, apparently.
Peaceness.
Morning Con,
Dont go by what I write here as I dont do rules, cant follow directions, and did them steps my way
But this is what I found, the first three dont much work unless 4 is done. They always looked like redirection to me
I got step one real easy but when I did and had to focus on me, not my husbandAll hell broke lose
How could I really know what my HP was when I didnt know who I wascouldnt see past the despair and insanity in my own head
As I smile and think I could blame step one for the downs and alcohol walking back in. WTF I have to focus on me, look at him
How do you find what you believe in when you dont know who you are anymore and that is how I felt, who am I, where are my passions, convictions cause I sure as hell couldnt find anything worth the time at one point.
I did use nature as my best guide, the beauty in the simplicity of life around outside myself. I could trust in that, the awe of it, the power of renewal, the power of the ocean, there were no questions I could ask there to complicate it allIt made sense to meI found hope there.
And in the power of love
Letting go, I had problems there cause really now I could see I was needing to let of the same things over and over and these were things I need to work out, not let go of
Step 4 seemed to tie it all together
I also found my faith stronger, and my higher power is different based on the day. I dont buy much into giving things away to god that I can do myselfso on days where God cant work I draw on love, or patience, acceptance, or the beauty of the garden as a power to guide me.
But I do give to God the irrational, nice to be able to know that I dont have to worry about things there are no control over, no answers to
Playing the tape helps there as wellI got that down to a science
It has really been one strange trip, glad I opted onto the ride
And so that I keep this real, I have never, ever entered a room
I love the net, it has everything you need right at your finger tips, by accident one day being all codependent looking into AA/NA for the hubbyUGH I found the worksheets, then they started a thread on the family board at the same time, taking one step at a time with explainations of how to work it while the threads didnt make it that far, I kept going and going
Nah there are no real accidents
Believe in yourself
Big hugs,
Tina
Dont go by what I write here as I dont do rules, cant follow directions, and did them steps my way
But this is what I found, the first three dont much work unless 4 is done. They always looked like redirection to me
I got step one real easy but when I did and had to focus on me, not my husbandAll hell broke lose
How could I really know what my HP was when I didnt know who I wascouldnt see past the despair and insanity in my own head
As I smile and think I could blame step one for the downs and alcohol walking back in. WTF I have to focus on me, look at him
How do you find what you believe in when you dont know who you are anymore and that is how I felt, who am I, where are my passions, convictions cause I sure as hell couldnt find anything worth the time at one point.
I did use nature as my best guide, the beauty in the simplicity of life around outside myself. I could trust in that, the awe of it, the power of renewal, the power of the ocean, there were no questions I could ask there to complicate it allIt made sense to meI found hope there.
And in the power of love
Letting go, I had problems there cause really now I could see I was needing to let of the same things over and over and these were things I need to work out, not let go of
Step 4 seemed to tie it all together
I also found my faith stronger, and my higher power is different based on the day. I dont buy much into giving things away to god that I can do myselfso on days where God cant work I draw on love, or patience, acceptance, or the beauty of the garden as a power to guide me.
But I do give to God the irrational, nice to be able to know that I dont have to worry about things there are no control over, no answers to
Playing the tape helps there as wellI got that down to a science
It has really been one strange trip, glad I opted onto the ride
And so that I keep this real, I have never, ever entered a room
I love the net, it has everything you need right at your finger tips, by accident one day being all codependent looking into AA/NA for the hubbyUGH I found the worksheets, then they started a thread on the family board at the same time, taking one step at a time with explainations of how to work it while the threads didnt make it that far, I kept going and going
Nah there are no real accidents
Believe in yourself
Big hugs,
Tina
