Sub Pill Splitting?

I know it's just day two for me. But, dangit, I'm too drugged up on 8 mg. Do the doctor's allow the sub to be split in half and taken twice a day? Or perhaps I only need 4 mg. a day? One of my main problems now is that I am not only sleepy, but very irritable. I don't want to put my family through a whole weekend of living with a grouchy woman. I didn't call the doctor today. If I remain status quo, I am going to have a few family members who don't like sub OR me, come Monday morning. Also, I LOOK high as a kite too. I just noticed my appearance. This is not good. I've rarely been this high in my pp career. Can anyone offer any advice?
Starbright
yes you can split your doses. In fact, my doctor told me that if you don't feel right you can split it up to 3 separate doses. I'm down to 2-3 mgs. , I take probably between 1-1.5mg 2x a day and that's plenty for me. I've never taken a whole 8mg at one time before, i don't think i would like that either. too much.
But for a long time i was on 8mg, taking 4 in the morning, and 4 in the early evening.

Good luck to you.
Hope you stick around.


Stacey
Thanks Stacey! What mgs. do these pills come in anyway? I know there are 4 mgs and 8 mgs. Any other sizes?
Thanks!
Starbright
You precious, spirit, user posted image

You piqued my interest with the source of words you are using when you say my "PP career."

I've never heard of a disease referred to as a "career." Perhaps I'm different; however, I've never referred to the disease of my addiction, or the disease my cancer, or any chronic ongoing diseases as a career. When I made the decision to embrace recovery, my sponsor said to me: "Sammy, there's just one thing you have to change!" I thought, well gosh, that's cool - I can change one thing and quipped back: "And what would that be?" She said: "Everything!"

I had to come to think differently and take a look at the words and actions I used in order to enact change. The dictionary defines "career" as: "an occupation or profession, esp. one requiring special training, followed as one's lifework." As a newcomer, I know precisely where you are coming from; yet do you really think the disease of addiction as something that requires special training, followed as one's lifework? Perhaps, recovery is; and by no means am I coming down on you in how you express yourself...nevertheless, this is just some food for thought. Change - who said it was simple? ;)

Have you been waiting for a healing that doesnt seem to come? The specific issue might be a disease or some physical ailment. Or maybe the condition was of an emotional or spiritual nature. Regardless of the cause, most of us have yearned for healing. Perhaps you are expecting the experience to look a certain way according to your perception of the need? Healing comes in the form that best serves each individual souls growth.

As we release our preconceived ideas about how healing should appear, we experience the perfection that already exists for us in the God of our understanding. Some questions I had to ask myself were:

Are you ready to be whole?

Are you ready to open yourself to the healing power and presence of Love?

Are you ready to move forward through each condition and circumstance trusting that all is in divine order?

Wherever this journey leads, I know that my HP is with me always. In this moment, I am whole just as I am.

Be still. Be still. Be still. God in the midst of you is substance. God in the midst of you is love. God in the midst of you is wisdom. Let not your thoughts be given to lack, but let wisdom fill them with the substance and faith of God. Let not your heart be a center of resentment and fear and doubt. Be still and know that at this moment it is the altar of God, of love; love so sure and unfailing, love so irresistible and magnetic that it draws your supply to you from the great store-house of the universe. Trust God, use God's wisdom, prove and express God's love.

Namaste' ~

Sammy
user posted image
Hey Star,

Yep, I agree. You can split them into quarters if you want to. I take 4mg. in the morning and 2 in the early afternoon. If you're feeling as out of sorts as I did, you might want to try taking 2mgs. in the morning, wait a bit and see how you do on that, and if needed take another 2mg. You may be able to get by on 4mgs. by the description you're giving. If you need more you can always take another 2mgs. Hope you get to feeling better.

~Callie~
"You piqued my interest with the source of words you are using when you say my "PP career."

I've never heard of a disease referred to as a "career." Perhaps I'm different; however, I've never referred to the disease of my addiction, or the disease my cancer, or any chronic ongoing diseases as a career. "

Very spiritual person,
It's merely a choice of words. Obviously, I see nothing spiritual about the words I chose to use to describe my situation. I don't know how you made it so "deep". I guess we converse differently. This is not to mean I am a shallow or non-passionate person. I am quite the opposite. But, in this situation, it is what it is and was what it was: "my pp career" Or....it might be explained as simply as my having come from a white collar business background.
Starbright
Very spiritual person? Hi *Star*, my name is Sammy - an addict grateful for recovery. I hope you did not perceive that there was something sinister in my message to you, and if you did, my sincerest apologies.

As an addict, I had a fixed mindset; I believed that my talents and abilities were set in stone - either I had them or I didn't. I found I had to prove myself over and over, trying to look smart and talented at all costs. This is the path of stagnation.

If I had a growth mindset; however, I would have known that talents can be developed and that great abilities are built over time. This is the path of peace and serenity.

I thank my HP that He has placed a spirit of growth in me - of constant development over time. I allow for this process of transformation by being gentle with myself; yet, rigorously willing to use every circumstance and situation for my souls best interest. I now see every event in life as a beneficial opportunity for growth and give thanks to my HP for strengthening my willingness to change and grow.

I wish you nothing more than peace and spiritual awakening, and profoundly recognize, as I sit back in awe, your growing, evolving soul.

Namaste' ~

Sammy
Hey Starbright,

Just checking in. How are you doing tonight? One thing I forgot to mention. In the morning, you might wait awhile before taking your first dose of Sub...give it more time to leave your body before taking any more. It may help alleviate the high feeling. Did you say that you were sleepy? I can't remember but it seemed like you said you didn't sleep well last night. Sounds like you'll be ok tonight though if you've been sleepy today.

I'm thinking of you!

~Callie~
hi starbright
you are in the induction stage of sub, difficult at first, i hallucinated, vomited and couldnt stay awake, it will pass as your body gets used to it.
sub only comes in 2 mg and 8 mg tablets, to get the other mg's you can cut the sub. and spread out the doses during the day, my doctor started me on 8 mg, i couldnt handle the entire tablet so i took 2 mg 4x a day,
it will be worth getting used to the sub as it is a wonderful tool along with therapy, meetings, a sponsor, and working the 12 steps.
addiction is only 10% pill popping, the other 90% is our stinkin thinkin, which through working the steps etc helps addicts learn a new and healthier way of thinking so we dont become so overwhelmed that we have to numb ourselves.
keep up the good work and welcome! keep coming back! jewels
I wanted to thank all my new friends for your replies. I also wanted to tell you how the last 12 hours unfolded for me. (If you're interested..read on...)

I STAYED IN BED ALMOST 13 HOURS is what happened!!! The first part of the night, I was awake almost every hour or two, going to the bathroom. Is this drug a diuretic? Good grief and man oh man is all I can say about that part! Did ya'll have this problem. If so, does it continue?

After "listening" to some of you seasoned sub users, and also relying on my gut feelings about how my body has been reacting to the 8mg. I decided to cut back to 6mg. today. I split the little pill as accurately as I could. My doctor has been very explicit in his desire for me to only take sub ONCE a day. I notice that some of you take it several times a day. I decided I should obey his request for the once a day dose. I also thought about it and decided if I started taking this stuff three or four times a day, it would be too much like the pp's for me. I would be thinking about when I needed a dose all day long. Have ya'll considered that aspect of the program?

I want to thank all of you for responding to my posts. You've been a great help to this newbie. I look forward to watching your progress too. I'm having a problem finding posts and following threads in this format. It's a hit and miss situation for me right now. Unless there is some way of searching this board that I have not found, I think it would be very easy to miss someone's post or response back. After a while, I forget where I posted. Do you know what I mean?
Starbright
Hey!

Ugh! I was hoping you'd be balancing out by now. I agree with the theory of only taking Sub once a day and ultimately, it's best but, until you get yourself squared away, I don't see that it would do any harm. I'm not aware of any diuretic quality to the Sub. Have you had your kidney function checked? Could it be that the pain pills were causing you to retain water and now, you're eliminating properly? I do remember retaining water on the PP and, now that you've mentioned it, I'm not doing that anymore. I don't have to go all the time, like you but, I have a terrible time eating and I don't even have any desire to drink so I'm dehydrated most the time. I can't be sure but, I think Sub exaserbates whatever eating habits you had before you started it. I have a hard time eating to begin with and my appetite is non-exsistant now. Over eating seems to be quite an issue for those who had that tendancy before Sub. Hey, here's something else I'm kinda keeping track of. Do you smoke? If you do, are you smoking alot more on the Sub? Seems that alot of people do but they don't know why. And, do you're muscles spasm at night? On the higher doses especially, I jerk so hard sometimes, I wake myself up from it. Rhonda (RKT) does it too. We were just curious if this was happening to anyone else. Well, I've talked your ear off! I'll let you be for now. Keep posting and let us know how you're doing!

~Callie~
You can look on "view new posts" or look at the forum you use...the ones with new posts are darker and they have a little dot in the envelope if you've posted in them!

Good luck with your recovery
Maddy x
Callie,
What you've said about sub sure makes it one mysterious drug. What you're saying is that regardless of what the patients prior problem, the sub exacerbates it? That's weird, but is making sense in what some of ya'll have been telling me and my personal experience. I cannot think of ONE thing to eat right now that really appeals to me. I forced myself to eat two small meals today. In no way were they balanced or healthy. I ate what I could stomach at the moment. The fact that we're having our kitchen gutted and remodeled right now, is not helping the situation. The sub has made me feel so tired that I don't want to go out at all, so what little I do get, is fast food. Yuck!

Yesterday's experience with sub was like no other "high" I've ever experienced before. In fact, I cut myself back to 4 mg. today because of yesterdays experience. It actually scared me. I feel more normal today. On the 6mg. yesterday, I slept another 13 hours last night and had to force myself to get up when I finally did. The doctor said he based what his patients beginning dosage is on their length of addiction and the amount of the drug they were using. He sure was way off on his estimation of my needs. Thank goodness I was able to be at home for the first few days. I have never been drugged heavier in my life under my own administration than in these past few days. I'm wondering if this is the "high" drug users who like xanax seek? Why anyone would choose to be that high on a regular basis is baffling to me. I liked the soothing euphoric, energetic rush I got with the pp's. I never sought other highs from alcohol or other drugs. Perhaps I am lucky in that aspect. Am I?

Anyway, I am sure hoping I get this dose correct soon. I have to begin a class a week from tomorrow that is vital that I pass. I am in no shape to learn anything right now. I didn't realize this stuff would need so much tweaking.
Starbright
Hey Starbright,

I don't know if Sub is really all that mysterious. I don't know that it exaserbates everything but it seems to have that effect on people's appetites. I think there's so much that's unknown about, everyone's bodies are different, and there are many variations of what people were taking illicitly and the other medications and health issues they are dealing with. Hmmmm....maybe it is mysterious after all!
I also think that height and weight have a part in finding the right dose. At 5'2 1/2 (I gotta get that 1/2 inch in there!) and 98 pounds I require less than a man who is 6 foot and weighs 200 pounds.
Hey, you might be just fine the way you are cutting back but I just have to tell you something. When I felt overmedicated at 16mgs., I cut back to 12 after a bout a week. That next day I felt really good. Well, because I didn't want to stay at a higher dose if I didn't need it, the very next day, I cut back to 8mgs. I felt good all day but I woke up the next day and was puking my guts out. I had a splitting headache, I had the shakes and the poops. I thought I was dying. I had just thrown myself into withdrawals! It took me about 2 hours to quit puking long enough to take some additional Sub. After the Sub kicked in, I was fine. Remember, I said it takes a good 24 hours to feel the effects of any change? Well, I'd cut back too quickly and I was one hurting little girl. If you wake up fine, that'll be good but if you don't, just take 2mgs. at a time until you feel fine again. Doing it that way will help you feel better but it will also give you an indication of how much your body really does need to stave off the withdrawals. I know...it's a lot of info. If you have any questions...feel free. Either that, or you can ignore me altogether. Some people would tell you that's best! I'm kidding. I really hope you get this figured out. I'd tell you to call your doc again but if it's just a matter of finding the right dose, he won't be much help. If you keep feeling high or out of sorts in a day or two though, I'd certainly call him. Try to have a good day!

~Callie~
Thanks Callie, for the additional information. I am feeling pretty good right now. I decided after reading your post that I should take about 1-2mg. more before going to bed. Your example of going into withdrawals scared me. However, I've never had severe withdrawals from pp. The most I've experienced is the anxious feelings, cravings, low energy, mild stomach cramps and restless legs. I've never vomited or had anything violent happen. I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened this time though. I was 24 hours into withdrawal and the symptoms were very mild. Are you saying the withdrawal for sub would be worse, even after only have taken it four days? If the answer is yes, OMG, what the heck have I gotten myself into? LOL I think I am going to trapsie on over to one of the sub websites and do some more reading right now!

Oh, and why isn't there a SPELLCHECK on this thing?
Starbright
The absense?...abcense?...absence...ah, there we go: of spellcheck is simply an effort to keep addicts off the street by making them sit at their computers all day correcting mis-spelled words.

I know you're really anxious about the Sub but really, it'll only take finding the right amount for you and you'll be fine. I shouldn't have told you that story. I didn't mean to frighten you. I was withdrawing from the Sub at that point, (I'd never puked before either) but we won't ever be jumping off at a high enough dose to cause that. I can't tell you what to expect when you withdraw from Sub because I haven't done it yet. Well, I did but once before but I tapered from 10mgs. within a weeks time and it was too quick. I didn't feel good but not like that. I relapsed but it was from the cravings, not the withdrawals. That's the good thing about Sub though. We might feel some withdrawal but it'll be totally manageable and because of that, we won't be at such a risk for relapse. I dunno, That's what they say and until I know otherwise, I'm sticking to that! One girl here has been off Sub for almost 6 months and she's doing great. Another did a 5 day detox and outside of a few cravings, she says she's never looked back. I'm convinced that the horror stories you hear are from people who abused Sub or didn't take it properly. Now....go make yourself some tea and relax! Oh! That reminds me. Don't worry right now about what you eat...just eat. I don't get hungry but when I do, all I eat is sugar. My doc said (because I'm losing too much) to try to eat protien first. If I'm still wanting something after that, then have something sweet. I don't always succeed but it's getting better. I've taken to drinking Ensure because I just couldn't make myself eat. Good luck with that one.

See ya!

~Callie~
QUOTE
Don't worry right now about what you eat...just eat. I don't get hungry but when I do, all I eat is sugar. My doc said (because I'm losing too much) to try to eat protien first. If I'm still wanting something after that, then have something sweet. I don't always succeed but it's getting better. I've taken to drinking Ensure because I just couldn't make myself eat. Good luck with that one.


Callie,
Oh great. Now, I will be drinking Ensure, the really old people's drink. I'm going to not only LOOK old, I'm going to LIVE old now that I'm on sub. LOL Do ya think anyone will notice?

Starbright
Nah, no one will notice if you do like me. I've been having such terrible panic attacks and depression that I only go out when I need more Ensure and to get my dose of Sub. I have my little disguise and my sunglasses. People are so distracted by helping me back on my feet from bumping into walls because I can't see with my shades on that they barely notice, I'm a shriveled up old addict. They just pat me on the head and smile. I even get them to carry my bags out to the car for me sometimes! I hope you know I'm kidding! Sort of...
Guess what! I was finally able to convince my doctor that I really didn't want to sell my Suboxone on the street and I was taking less than she'd actually prescibed so I'm not in danger of overdosing on it. She agreed to give me a weeks prescription at a time. Now, I only have to endure the raised eyebrows of the pharmacists and the fumbling, bumbling whispers ("are you here to get your....stuff?") of the pharmacy techs. once a week. I can actually have a life (as pathetic as it is) now, instead of being chained to the pharmacy. I'm happy about that. I've got to get ready for work now but I hope you're doing better today. How'd you sleep? Any signs of w/d or any other adverse effects from dropping your dose? Keep posting and let us know how you're doing. I really do hope you can benefit from Sub the way I and others have. It really has saved my butt. And I hope you can tolerate my sense of humor. Making light of my situation is really the only way I can function.

See Ya!

~Callie~
Congratulations Callie on the once a week status for pharmacy visits!!! This must be the real Step One for your doctor's program. Now that you've cleared that hurdle, you can have two cans of Ensure a day as your reward!! I'm trying Yoplait instead of the Ensure, if you don't mind. I don't think I will be able to gag that stuff down. It has such a negative connotation of nursing home being just around the corner, that I just can't do it....yet. Let me just be a drug addict and not be old, please. Admitting to being a drug addict was bad enough. Good grief!

On to better things, such as my daily dosage: I took 6 mg today and I feel marvelous again. A few times today I felt a wee bit groggy, but it went away after I nodded off a few times. I refused to let myself take a nap, so I should be ready for Art Bell in just a few minutes. My favorite time is the middle of the night when the best talk radio shows are going strong. I think that is why I have insomnia. I stay awake for the radio programming. Could I be a radio PM talk show addict too? This addiction stuff never ends. What will I have to give up next?

Seriously, I better say now that I am happy to be alive and pp free, 'cause I am.

Starbright
Hey Starbright,

Good to hear your feeling better. Yah, I know the Ensure doesn't do much for our self image but I got used to drinking it when my mom lived with me. I bought it for her hoping she'd at least get some kind of nutrients but she was such a pistol that I'd end up making her a chocolate cake just so she'd behave herself. I ended up drinking the Ensure!

I read on another thread that you've come to realize that any and all substances are off limits to us addicts. Yuuuuppp, yup, yup, yup. I never could imagine what people wanted with "downers" like PP, benzo's and the like. I'd taken pain pills before and always thought it was funny to be "loopy" on them but never, in a million years would I have taken them for any other reason than pain relief. Well, little did I know that they would take the place of the feeling of well-being that alcohol provided me. I never thought I'd become an alchoholic either, but I did. It doesn't have anything to do with desire or having a "taste" for a particular drug. It has everything to do with how my little pea brain is wired. I still have no idea why it happened when it did but, alcohol awakened my addictive tendancies and I was off and runnin' from there. Sooo...I'm glad you don't like to drink! I know without a doubt that I can't go there. I hear some people here who are recovering from something else, talking about having a drink and I wonder about that. Not my place to say one way or the other though. Anyway, here I go again, writing a novel. I gotta go turn off my water anyhow. I'll talk to you soon!

~Callie~