I read often that with sub there is no opiate craving but I'm not sure I know what that means. Does it mean that mentally you just don't want to get high any more or that physically your body no longer craves it? I'm guessing that it works for the physical but does it do anything for the mental desire? I remember that after the physical withdrawals were over for me I still had a hard time with the mental obsession for quite a while. I'm curious how sub takes care of that.
kat,
I am not sure exactly HOW Sub works on mental cravings cause it never helped me much in that area but it did help with the physical cravings cause the brain is having the opiate receptors filled from the Sub.
Many do say that Sub helps/helped them with the mental part too. For me it helped a bit knowing that Sub is an opiate blocker.
I very rarely have a mental craving anymore. Even if I do, I know I will not act on it, because it will make me sick. I am able to put it out of my mind instantly, knowing the Sub. will not allow me to use. It's a non-issue for me as long as I stay on Sub.
I have heard from many who have gone to the trouble to wean off of Sub., and then start using PP again. They do not get high. They basically feel nothing from their old DOC.
It is not worth the trouble to me, knowing what a long, drawn out process it would be to go back to PP, and then to not get that high I fantasize about anyway. It's very easy to dismiss the thought of using.
i find that the sub helps great with the physical cravings. i did start to get some mental cravings as the holidays approached but the cravings do pass if you distract your self from them. i have been on it 6 mos now and i am starting to experience some side effects and i know that i am dependant on sub now. i did not know this was gonna happen when i first started sub but now i am gonna have to deal with it.
i have debated and researched suboxone and it is WONDERFUL for curbing cravings but yet i still feel as if i am not clean cuz i am still getting an opiate daily, i thought this problem of depending on an opiate was over when i started the sub in july but now realized after time has passed and being more educated about it now that there is more work to be done. i have delayed my withdrawals by using sub, its a great tool as i would not be where i am at today had i not taken sub, i know i would of been so miserable like i was when i went to rehab the first time and had nothing but clonidine to withdraw with. being comfortable this time has allowed me to go to meetings and really listen and learn how the program works and i have not done vicodin pot or alcohol at all and that is a good thing. i no longer have to play doctors or worry about refill day or base my feelings for the day on how many pills are in the bottle. i am willing this time, i dont want to go back to the nightmare of using vicodin again. so there are the positives....BUT here is the flip side of it.
my body is trying to say something to me and i am ignoring it because i dont feel strong enough in a recovery program yet to quit the sub, just started step one and got into a fight with my sponsor about our disagreement with me being on sub.
my counselor says i am following the rules correctly and she recommends the suboxone until i am in a well established recovery program. so heres the dilema i am so severely constipated and its been 6 mos since i have gone naturally. i have used every product and suggestion on this planet to no avail. even did a colon cleansing for my poor digestive system and the results were hard rocks of difficult to pass feces. now swelling has started, my ankles and feet are twice the size they should be, is that from the constipation??? i dont know. now i have totally lost my appetite for which i am dropping some much needed weight, i am a diabetic who is supposed to eat 6 times a day and there are days when i eat hardly anything, my favorite foods and fast food places are a thing of the past that is a big change i have seen. food tastes disgusting!!!!! how much longer can my body endure this? but yet if i quit i will for surely relapse as i have so much stress and marital problems right now. i have a long road a head of me for which i am ready to take on the challenge but will I hold out?????
what really bummed me out was tues NA meeting were we had a speaker meeting, the speaker said: IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANY STEP WORK AND WORKING WITH A SPONSOR, YOU ARE DOING NOTHING IN YOUR RECOVERY BUT PRACTICING ABSTINENCE. what a blow that was for me to hear. i am praying daily for the right sponsor to be revealed to me, but i just cant find her, i have had so many wrong sponsors in the past that i want to make sure she is the right fit for me and her issues on suboxone have got to be positive for her to understand my recovery program. i could ramble on for hours here tell everyone whats going on in my life that is so wrong right now, but i will spare you. i have noticed that i want to retreat back to isolation again and i KNOW that is wrong.living daily with an alcoholic is killing me mentally, its worse than physical abuse cuz the bruises go away from physical beatings but the mental ones do not! i have thought of so many strategies to get out of this abusive marriage but as it looks today i am stuck until i can financially swing it on my own, i am working 3 part time jobs plus struggling with 2 diseases, addiction and diabetes, i need his insurance benefits to keep me from dying from diabetes and , i dont know..... i am just stuck. yesterday i looked at our checking account on line and noticed a 110.00 debit fee???? i was like what in the h*ll is this??? i call the bank and find out that a check my husband cashed bounced! he is out of town working as we speak so i call him on his cell and ask him who is kathy??? he is so suprised that i know her name, he says i dont know.... i said yes you do know dont lie to me because i have the evidence and HER bad check is being mailed back to me in a few days from the bank. who is this person and why is she writing you a check????!!!???!!! he says oh, she is just some broad i met at the bar (trashy establishment), why is she writing you a check? i dont know its none of your business, i lent her some money blah, blah, blah, i start getting angry cuz now it involves me our checking account for which i may get an over draft cuz i didnt know the bank took 110.00 out of my account, i just paid the mortgage which brings the account down to almost nothing and he says its none of my business and hangs up on me! i call back, he has his voice mail on and he is in another state working. just WAIT until i see him on friday! his cell phone on his belt accidentally will call our house phone if the automatic dial button gets pressed accidentally so guess what all the phone calls get recorded on our answer machine, and there is always some woman in the car with him, i ask him about this, its none of your business, i have friends i give rides home to, he missed my suprise 50th birthday part cuz he said he had to be at the bar waiting for someone to pay him back 300.00 they owed him???!!?? i am like what in the h*ll is going on, he doesnt deal or do drugs, just alcohol, he is 15 years older than me and he is now 64 and says to us he doesnt have long to live cuz his dad died at 70 so he says he is gonna live the rest of his life doing what HE wants to do. now i could go on to tell you about his porn addiction!!!! i met this man when i was unhealthy mentally and was using, we were the best couple as users, but when i got clean and changed myself hopefully for the better is when our marriage fell apart and i started to look at him in a different way now that i am sober. i have raised two beautiful sons through out all this, giving them morals, spirituality, a child hood i never had, mine was filled with sexual molestation among many other bad things and i swore that i would be the best mother to them and give them a life where they never had to experience what i did, and it paid off, i have the best sons who i just love and adore and he doesnt even want to be with us, he doesnt even know the names of his 4 grandsons from his daughter from his first marriage!! that is so pitiful! any way thanks for letting me vent, i totally got off track here and now i am late so better go. i know you asked the question about sub and i hope i answered that for you, but yet i got off the subject and on to this sorry. jewels.
i have debated and researched suboxone and it is WONDERFUL for curbing cravings but yet i still feel as if i am not clean cuz i am still getting an opiate daily, i thought this problem of depending on an opiate was over when i started the sub in july but now realized after time has passed and being more educated about it now that there is more work to be done. i have delayed my withdrawals by using sub, its a great tool as i would not be where i am at today had i not taken sub, i know i would of been so miserable like i was when i went to rehab the first time and had nothing but clonidine to withdraw with. being comfortable this time has allowed me to go to meetings and really listen and learn how the program works and i have not done vicodin pot or alcohol at all and that is a good thing. i no longer have to play doctors or worry about refill day or base my feelings for the day on how many pills are in the bottle. i am willing this time, i dont want to go back to the nightmare of using vicodin again. so there are the positives....BUT here is the flip side of it.
my body is trying to say something to me and i am ignoring it because i dont feel strong enough in a recovery program yet to quit the sub, just started step one and got into a fight with my sponsor about our disagreement with me being on sub.
my counselor says i am following the rules correctly and she recommends the suboxone until i am in a well established recovery program. so heres the dilema i am so severely constipated and its been 6 mos since i have gone naturally. i have used every product and suggestion on this planet to no avail. even did a colon cleansing for my poor digestive system and the results were hard rocks of difficult to pass feces. now swelling has started, my ankles and feet are twice the size they should be, is that from the constipation??? i dont know. now i have totally lost my appetite for which i am dropping some much needed weight, i am a diabetic who is supposed to eat 6 times a day and there are days when i eat hardly anything, my favorite foods and fast food places are a thing of the past that is a big change i have seen. food tastes disgusting!!!!! how much longer can my body endure this? but yet if i quit i will for surely relapse as i have so much stress and marital problems right now. i have a long road a head of me for which i am ready to take on the challenge but will I hold out?????
what really bummed me out was tues NA meeting were we had a speaker meeting, the speaker said: IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANY STEP WORK AND WORKING WITH A SPONSOR, YOU ARE DOING NOTHING IN YOUR RECOVERY BUT PRACTICING ABSTINENCE. what a blow that was for me to hear. i am praying daily for the right sponsor to be revealed to me, but i just cant find her, i have had so many wrong sponsors in the past that i want to make sure she is the right fit for me and her issues on suboxone have got to be positive for her to understand my recovery program. i could ramble on for hours here tell everyone whats going on in my life that is so wrong right now, but i will spare you. i have noticed that i want to retreat back to isolation again and i KNOW that is wrong.living daily with an alcoholic is killing me mentally, its worse than physical abuse cuz the bruises go away from physical beatings but the mental ones do not! i have thought of so many strategies to get out of this abusive marriage but as it looks today i am stuck until i can financially swing it on my own, i am working 3 part time jobs plus struggling with 2 diseases, addiction and diabetes, i need his insurance benefits to keep me from dying from diabetes and , i dont know..... i am just stuck. yesterday i looked at our checking account on line and noticed a 110.00 debit fee???? i was like what in the h*ll is this??? i call the bank and find out that a check my husband cashed bounced! he is out of town working as we speak so i call him on his cell and ask him who is kathy??? he is so suprised that i know her name, he says i dont know.... i said yes you do know dont lie to me because i have the evidence and HER bad check is being mailed back to me in a few days from the bank. who is this person and why is she writing you a check????!!!???!!! he says oh, she is just some broad i met at the bar (trashy establishment), why is she writing you a check? i dont know its none of your business, i lent her some money blah, blah, blah, i start getting angry cuz now it involves me our checking account for which i may get an over draft cuz i didnt know the bank took 110.00 out of my account, i just paid the mortgage which brings the account down to almost nothing and he says its none of my business and hangs up on me! i call back, he has his voice mail on and he is in another state working. just WAIT until i see him on friday! his cell phone on his belt accidentally will call our house phone if the automatic dial button gets pressed accidentally so guess what all the phone calls get recorded on our answer machine, and there is always some woman in the car with him, i ask him about this, its none of your business, i have friends i give rides home to, he missed my suprise 50th birthday part cuz he said he had to be at the bar waiting for someone to pay him back 300.00 they owed him???!!?? i am like what in the h*ll is going on, he doesnt deal or do drugs, just alcohol, he is 15 years older than me and he is now 64 and says to us he doesnt have long to live cuz his dad died at 70 so he says he is gonna live the rest of his life doing what HE wants to do. now i could go on to tell you about his porn addiction!!!! i met this man when i was unhealthy mentally and was using, we were the best couple as users, but when i got clean and changed myself hopefully for the better is when our marriage fell apart and i started to look at him in a different way now that i am sober. i have raised two beautiful sons through out all this, giving them morals, spirituality, a child hood i never had, mine was filled with sexual molestation among many other bad things and i swore that i would be the best mother to them and give them a life where they never had to experience what i did, and it paid off, i have the best sons who i just love and adore and he doesnt even want to be with us, he doesnt even know the names of his 4 grandsons from his daughter from his first marriage!! that is so pitiful! any way thanks for letting me vent, i totally got off track here and now i am late so better go. i know you asked the question about sub and i hope i answered that for you, but yet i got off the subject and on to this sorry. jewels.
No disrespect intended, but why worry/disect something you don't even take? Just curious?
Hey Angela....Kat's busy at work today so I thought I'd just share with you...<this is only my opinion> She works with a lot of newcomers and knowing Kat like I do, I'm sure she wants to know so she can help people to the best of her abilities...she is one of a kind and if she asks a question, it's because she wants to be more educated about it....nothing more, nothing less....
Have a great day....
Have a great day....
Julie
I wonder what you counselor thinks a good program of recovery should be before detox is recommended. There are millions of people that have managed to stay clean on AA or NA alone. If sub is holding you back from working the steps maybe it's time to rethink the sub. The person that said if you aren't working the steps, you are just abstinent is right, honey. The steps are the program, not just meetings.If the sub is causing bad side effects maybe it's time to move on. Don't be afraid of sobriety without sub. It can be done. There are plenty of people here that prove that. I'm sorry your old man is such a freakin jerk. I hope venting helped you feel better.
Angela
I asked because I would like to know how to help newcomers deal with cravings. I have never taken sub so the only way I can find out is to ask. Why do you ask? Does someone asking about sub trouble you?
edit to say
Almost done, Stace. YAY
I wonder what you counselor thinks a good program of recovery should be before detox is recommended. There are millions of people that have managed to stay clean on AA or NA alone. If sub is holding you back from working the steps maybe it's time to rethink the sub. The person that said if you aren't working the steps, you are just abstinent is right, honey. The steps are the program, not just meetings.If the sub is causing bad side effects maybe it's time to move on. Don't be afraid of sobriety without sub. It can be done. There are plenty of people here that prove that. I'm sorry your old man is such a freakin jerk. I hope venting helped you feel better.
Angela
I asked because I would like to know how to help newcomers deal with cravings. I have never taken sub so the only way I can find out is to ask. Why do you ask? Does someone asking about sub trouble you?
edit to say
Almost done, Stace. YAY
No troubles, just curious. new comers as in this board? or are you talking @ meetings?
Sub actuall does help with not only the physical, but the mental as well. I think that takes time, though, and in the early stages I was still craving escape. Not nescessarily opiates, but at the time, that was my brain's great escape plan. After a while, your brain does get rewired, though.
The one thing that helps is that you just can't get high. It gives you a longer space to think about that relapse, and like Carol said, it doesn't even work that well when you do try to get loaded. *I know, I tried*
So yes, it does help. I believe that people that have extensively used opiates have screwed up their brain chemistry, and the cravings and depression make it hard to stay sober. That is just my experience, though.
The one thing that helps is that you just can't get high. It gives you a longer space to think about that relapse, and like Carol said, it doesn't even work that well when you do try to get loaded. *I know, I tried*
So yes, it does help. I believe that people that have extensively used opiates have screwed up their brain chemistry, and the cravings and depression make it hard to stay sober. That is just my experience, though.
Hi Kat
I've been trying to think of a way to explain the feelings when on Sub. For me its like being someone who has never taken heroin, so therefore can't crave it. I know it sounds crazy but thats how it feels for me. I do believe the blocking side of Sub is an essential part because if you want to use, you will have to make that consious effort to stop the Sub and wait a few days before using.
I do think at the age of 50 and after 32 years of addiction I'm finally sick & tired of being sick & tired. What works for one person may not work for another, keep trying that's what I've done.
Bye Peter
I've been trying to think of a way to explain the feelings when on Sub. For me its like being someone who has never taken heroin, so therefore can't crave it. I know it sounds crazy but thats how it feels for me. I do believe the blocking side of Sub is an essential part because if you want to use, you will have to make that consious effort to stop the Sub and wait a few days before using.
I do think at the age of 50 and after 32 years of addiction I'm finally sick & tired of being sick & tired. What works for one person may not work for another, keep trying that's what I've done.
Bye Peter
I don't know about any of you, but sometimes it's hard for me to tell between the physical and psychological cravings. They are almost one in the same for me. I hope the suboxone will help me with both. But if anything can help me not obsess about getting my hands on pain medication, I will be grateful. And I don't just mean the suboxone alone. But still.
Also, people say they don't feel anything, but I'm on my 4th day now, and I was definitely sleepy/drowsy the first few days. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
Just some food for thought...
SP
Also, people say they don't feel anything, but I'm on my 4th day now, and I was definitely sleepy/drowsy the first few days. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
Just some food for thought...
SP
SP hey girl.Yeah I too the first week felt different.Not high just odd?I think its a matter of your body adjusting!!
Of course isnt a cure all but it does help in a sense that it gives you an outside chance to get control of the physical & mental cravings(JMO)therefore you can get yourself into therapy or some 12 step meeting whatever you feel comfortable with.
You may have some mental cravings but I feel thats because our minds are such a strong willing thing,but those feelings shouldnt be unbarable oppose to trying CT & such.
molly
Of course isnt a cure all but it does help in a sense that it gives you an outside chance to get control of the physical & mental cravings(JMO)therefore you can get yourself into therapy or some 12 step meeting whatever you feel comfortable with.
You may have some mental cravings but I feel thats because our minds are such a strong willing thing,but those feelings shouldnt be unbarable oppose to trying CT & such.
molly
kat
i think you may have misunderstood something on my post....sub is not stopping me from working the steps, actually nothing is except my lack of finding the right sponsor to guide and direct me thru them. sub is causing physical symptoms and i think maybe i may need to start addressing the tapering of it next. but i am so scared as it is my security blanket.
i totally understand thru learning this from NA that quitting pills is not the answer, working the steps are to change my stinkin thinkin, how i react to people and certain situations. thanks for understanding my marital woes and for letting me vent. one day at a time julie, one day at a time. julie
i think you may have misunderstood something on my post....sub is not stopping me from working the steps, actually nothing is except my lack of finding the right sponsor to guide and direct me thru them. sub is causing physical symptoms and i think maybe i may need to start addressing the tapering of it next. but i am so scared as it is my security blanket.
i totally understand thru learning this from NA that quitting pills is not the answer, working the steps are to change my stinkin thinkin, how i react to people and certain situations. thanks for understanding my marital woes and for letting me vent. one day at a time julie, one day at a time. julie
Is it expensive to get put on sub?
Hey Jewls:
I'm new to the forum & very addicted to Lortabs. It sounds like sub acts kind of like antabuse? Which would make you sick if you drank with it. Anything to buy a little time would have to be helpful because addicts - or at least this addict - tend to be impulsive. Sorry you're going thru so much at home. It takes a lot of strength to get clean while in that type of situation. No on should have to live like that. Mental abuse is just as bad as physical abuse. ALthough its a cop-out for him to say he's going to die at 70 because his father did - unless he intends to drink himself into an early grave. Hang in there! Oh, I had one more question about sub, does it help with the mental cravings? That is the worst for me.
I'm new to the forum & very addicted to Lortabs. It sounds like sub acts kind of like antabuse? Which would make you sick if you drank with it. Anything to buy a little time would have to be helpful because addicts - or at least this addict - tend to be impulsive. Sorry you're going thru so much at home. It takes a lot of strength to get clean while in that type of situation. No on should have to live like that. Mental abuse is just as bad as physical abuse. ALthough its a cop-out for him to say he's going to die at 70 because his father did - unless he intends to drink himself into an early grave. Hang in there! Oh, I had one more question about sub, does it help with the mental cravings? That is the worst for me.
lola10
yes i would have to say that sub has helped with the mental cravings. mine have been few and when they do arise, i quickly try and distract myself and they soon are forgotton for me.
i do think that is my husbands intention, to drink himself into an early grave, you are so right, it is hard to have to live like this
do try the sub, it is so worth it, it made my detox so comfortable.thanks for your kind words.
addicted2oxy: my insurance covers my sub but for those who have to pay out of pocket the cost of sub is around $ 7.00 a pill. ouch! jewels/julie
yes i would have to say that sub has helped with the mental cravings. mine have been few and when they do arise, i quickly try and distract myself and they soon are forgotton for me.
i do think that is my husbands intention, to drink himself into an early grave, you are so right, it is hard to have to live like this
do try the sub, it is so worth it, it made my detox so comfortable.thanks for your kind words.
addicted2oxy: my insurance covers my sub but for those who have to pay out of pocket the cost of sub is around $ 7.00 a pill. ouch! jewels/julie
Hey Jewels:
The mental thing for me is the worst, I'll obsess, always in the back of my mind is a scheme. If you knew how many doc's and pharmacies I deal with. And I have a lot of guilt for manipulating and taking advantage of people trying to help me, but it's like the drug comes first. I hate it. I taken opiates on and off for years but only after an accident 2 years ago have I taken them so consistanly, almost every day. I feel normal when I take them (crazy, right) and if I'm not taking them, my minds always working all the angles to get more. It's weird but not only do they kill pain it's like they've killed the joy, killed everything. I feel so numb. Did you have any of these probs? What helped for you?
The mental thing for me is the worst, I'll obsess, always in the back of my mind is a scheme. If you knew how many doc's and pharmacies I deal with. And I have a lot of guilt for manipulating and taking advantage of people trying to help me, but it's like the drug comes first. I hate it. I taken opiates on and off for years but only after an accident 2 years ago have I taken them so consistanly, almost every day. I feel normal when I take them (crazy, right) and if I'm not taking them, my minds always working all the angles to get more. It's weird but not only do they kill pain it's like they've killed the joy, killed everything. I feel so numb. Did you have any of these probs? What helped for you?
lola, you are certainly not crazy. or, if you are, then i am too :) the obsessing is what gets me. the how many do i have? how can i get more? how many can i take and get high but still have enough to get high tomorrow without not leaving enough for today? and then it gets all confused in my head, because i really do have chronic headaches, but half the time now i can't tell what's "pain" and what's me wanting to take something that will make me "feel better" (in the world, in my brain, in my emotional life, and by feel better, i mean, check out, which isn't really feeling better in the end). it's so much energy... so much energy to be thinking about it so much and i am hoping that hte suboxone will help with that.
although, i feel like i'm so in the beginning of all of this that i find myself wishing that the suboxone would get me high and then thinking about how many suboxone i have and how many could i take to "feel good" and that's crazy thinking too... it's like neverending.... but i think it's because the addiction isn't under control yet.
i still have to titrate the sub to the right level, have to go to more meetings, have to keep reaching out, seeing my therapist and stop f***ing thinking so much...
but no, i don't think you're crazy :) if that means anything at all to you...
although, i feel like i'm so in the beginning of all of this that i find myself wishing that the suboxone would get me high and then thinking about how many suboxone i have and how many could i take to "feel good" and that's crazy thinking too... it's like neverending.... but i think it's because the addiction isn't under control yet.
i still have to titrate the sub to the right level, have to go to more meetings, have to keep reaching out, seeing my therapist and stop f***ing thinking so much...
but no, i don't think you're crazy :) if that means anything at all to you...
For me,there are very few(if any)mental cravings.Im not sure why,maybe like Carol says,i know with taking the sub,its pointless.the desire for PP are basically completely gone on both levels for me.I have had one or two thoughts the past 6 months and thats about it.~KIM
I didn't read the replies, but I had zero mental or physical craving on sub. I had many opportunities to take pills, and nothing phased me. Obviously, sub blocks other opiates, but if a person on sub wanted to get high, they would find a way.
One example back in June: I was a a festival where people can bring RV's and stay for the weekend. Everyone parties, gets drunk, etc. I was with a friend who needed to go back to her RV and shower. I tagged along for the air conditioning.
In the front and center of the table was a big bottle of percocet. She immediately proceeded to tell me that they were hers but she didn't want or need them. The bottle was out for people to help themselves, much like a bowl of Chex Party Mix. She offered if I "liked them" to go ahead and take "some." I told her I don't like them either. She took a shower and I took a power nap on the sofa. I didn't look at them, think about them, care about them and it did not bother me that they were there. That was my DOC. This would have normally been a very powerful trigger situation.
After coming off of sub, percocet in my near vicinity bothered me a LOT. More specifically, when I knew my husband was taking them for recreational reasons, it bothered me a LOT. The last time when he actually needed them, I was able to go pick them up without being bothered by it. But I do not like knowing about people using recreationally. If they need it, I'm fine. I don't understand that, but that's how it is.
One example back in June: I was a a festival where people can bring RV's and stay for the weekend. Everyone parties, gets drunk, etc. I was with a friend who needed to go back to her RV and shower. I tagged along for the air conditioning.
In the front and center of the table was a big bottle of percocet. She immediately proceeded to tell me that they were hers but she didn't want or need them. The bottle was out for people to help themselves, much like a bowl of Chex Party Mix. She offered if I "liked them" to go ahead and take "some." I told her I don't like them either. She took a shower and I took a power nap on the sofa. I didn't look at them, think about them, care about them and it did not bother me that they were there. That was my DOC. This would have normally been a very powerful trigger situation.
After coming off of sub, percocet in my near vicinity bothered me a LOT. More specifically, when I knew my husband was taking them for recreational reasons, it bothered me a LOT. The last time when he actually needed them, I was able to go pick them up without being bothered by it. But I do not like knowing about people using recreationally. If they need it, I'm fine. I don't understand that, but that's how it is.
