Thru The Valley Of Stupidness, The Shadow Of Shame

I am ashamed to admit to myself and to the people on this board that I foolishly began a pattern about 2 months ago, CAUGHT A GREAT BREAK, and then did the exact same thing again - only this time it could easily have gotten much worse, WHERE NOT A DOOR PARTWAY & unexpectadly closed CLOSED TO ME.

I had been on suboxen, 24 mg (Im told the max dose allowed). It really has been working well for me, so good that I start wondering why Im taking it (I am told this is common). Unlike methadone, suboxone does not even give me a little buzz, though sometimes I get nice sleep.

Well about 2 months ago, when I was feeling like a complete failure and completely useless due to my job (or seeming inablility to get one or keep one) situation, I'd sit on the couch at night and take an extra one and an extra one and an extra half, hoping something would happen & maybe even feeling a little better (placebo effect i guess)

I have been told by my counselor that I am just waisting the pills if I ever take more then 3- as that is the macimum effect.

I wasnt worried cause I had a whole big bottle full, and i wouldnt keep doing this. Well even though it did nothing, I ran out about 12 days early. I was able to talk my counselor into an early refill, and somehow I got my ins. company to fill it a week early. I WAS CLEARLY WARNED- NEVER AGAIN.

NO WAY, i THOUGHT. There was no benefit, so all I could get out of taking them early was several days of withdrawels, while waiting for a new script.

AND I NEED ALL MY STRENGTH to find a job. I have had the unpleasant experience a couple times of working or looking for work while going thru moderate withdrawels, AND I REALLY DONT ENJOY IT.

Well this month I was out after 2 weeks , but I came up with a plan. I've been off methadone for almost a year with no plans to get back on it. Last time I went to the clinic, they immediately gave me 6 takeouts, due to it being about 50 miles away. It is a hardship allowance, which I think is still allowed, but in the past year this clinic has gotten strict on everything.

THAT MENT I WOULD HAVE TO DRIVE THEIR EVERY DAY, SPENDING CLOSE TO $20.00 on gas and $14.00 on the meth. I went for a few days, and the truth is to me it felt just like I was going to cop dope.

TODAY I realized what I was doing was completely ridiculous. No way do I have that kind of money and I dont want to pawn any more stuff. WELL I DIDNT GO . I have my sub appointment next Thurs, thats only one week.
I am guessing I have at least 2 days till I get a bit sick, and then only 4 more days, so Im confident Ill be OK.

IT FREIGHTENS ME TO THINK HOW THINGS COULD HAVE TURNED OUT IF MY ORIGINAL PLAN WORKED OUT. THE DOOR to danger would have been wide open for I would definitely have gotten the 6 takeouts & then the other 6. And in this case I was using meth more like a drug then a medicine for recovery. In spite of my intentions, I would have been in a totaly vulnerable position created by my own stupidness.

I really do sincerely pray to God about these things. I find it incredibly interesting that this is the 3rd time in a row that my plans, which had always easitly worked in the past, HAVE BEEN BLOCKED OFF.




( bY THE WAY:I am in no way against methadone maintenance as an appropriate treatment for some people, but I think for me it had always been more of a way to legally use and not risk arrest (which, if u are going to use makes sense to me)



Thee will always be a really good reason to use just one more day.

Step 1 -We admitted we were powerless over drugs and our lives had become unmanageable.
You are right, there always will be a reason: something good happens -celebrate, something BAD- etherize.

But I really confuse myself as to why I did what I did, it didn't work and I kept taking them, knowing they were doing nothing, but hoping they would do something------AND I FINALLY , 100% MY DOING, ENDED UP WHERE I KNEW i WOULD GET SICK.

Then I did it again. This is beyond drug abuse, it is completely senseless with no rhyme or reason. I HAVE TO WONDER WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME TO PUT myself in a position where I will be hurting me in the future, almost like that wont be me. I WOULD NEVER BE THAT CRUEL TO SOMEONE ELSE, even someone I don't like
Harry, this is the nature of addiction--it has a funny way of short circuiting our rational processes, in favor of finding a reason to feed the addiction. It does this while feeding our sense of denial that somehow, we are in control of this process.

I know things are tough for you Harry, I have watched your struggles since last December. I am wondering how long you want to continue to try to kick on your own terms?

I will not say much more. We each have our journey, but addiction is a tough one to kick alone. Hang in there, good luck with the job search.

Harry, if it's any consolation, a few days ago I took 1-2 mg of the sub I had, and I felt good - got some stuff done that I had been procrastinating. So the next day I took the same, and of course got violently ill for about 10 hours.

This is insanity personified. I knew sub made me sick and I took it anyway. I flushed the rest of the sub, and wondered why I had even held onto that bottle of pills when I knew it wasn't right for me. Sounds like you tried to get the same thing - one last high. The reason doesn't matter. We're addicts and if we are not vigilant, the disease wins.

I am developing the "want" to stay clean. I want a clear head. I am making no promises to anyone. I am clean today, October 29, and that's a freaking miracle.
Harry, I finally had to swallow my pride and ask for help.
I relapsed lots and lots of times. This disease is insanity.
Finally, at age 55 I figured out that I couldn't do it alone. Duh....
BTW, I'm 56 now. I wake up now everyday clean and sober and SO thankful.

I was posting over on the heroin board and I remembered a couple things that used to help me through withdrawals from pain pills - oxy and hydro. Just for general info, I thought I'd post them.
I found a double shot of Nyquil helped at night. And, I found Midol PMS formula helped. lol Not the regular Midol, but the PMS formula. Don't ask me why.
I have no idea how I stumbled across that remedy, but there you go.

Also, I found that Darvon or Darvocette relieved withdrawal symptoms completely and then coming off Darvon was much easier than the stronger narcotics. I related this to an addiction specialist and he was curious to hear this. He did some research and said he would try that approach on someone.
He offered to step me down in that fashion, but time was limited for me, so it wasn't an option. At the time, I had a huge IV Heroin habit and we tried to step me down to Percocette. One morning I took ten 10mg. Percocettes instead of heroin. That's like twenty of the regular ones. It still wasn't enough, I was still dope sick. So I stayed with the H till I could just go cold turkey. What a beaitch that was.
Keep ontruckin Ms (lol) addict mom. U guys r right, sometimes r wiring gets criss crossed and tangled. I think all people from time to time display some secret idiosyncricies (I wish we had a spell checker on here) but i think maybe some of us addicts (at least me for sure) have made a few to many left turns head on into traffic and keep on doing it because that couldn't have been a dream - the car flies.

I do remember now some dangerous things i used to do over and over in hopes of a miricle buzz, laying on my bed, my heart pounding, crying out to God to please, please not let me die, because whatever it was I bought from a complete stranger was not what it was supposed to be. Finally, as it wore off a little, I tried it again, thinking I had done too much or something -the result was the same. THE MEMORIES FLOOD BACK, AND THEY MAKE ME FEEL VERY ASHAMED.

I am not at all ashamed that I used to use. That would be a complete lie. What I am ashamed of us the unfair selfish risks that I took. I always tried to be a good father, and using didnt make me a bad one, but putting myself in dangerous situations (like going to certain areas by myself at night, standing out to any and all who were looking for a target - there were few caucasions that came by at night) or places where if a cop saw me I'd be lucky not to get stopped, searched and arrested.

ONE NIGHT THAT I REMEMBER CLEARLY- My little baby boy was in the hospitol. He was maybe14 or 15 months old. It was no emergency, but he had to have some kind of minor surgery. My wife was with him 7 -24 & I was out and about working. My schedule always varied, depending on when I could meet with customers, so for the most part she never had much of a clue where I was or what I was doing. (I mean she could always contact me - but she didnt unless it was important.)

Well, after my last appointment, I decided to take a route to the hospitol that somehow went about 8 miles out of the way, and just coincidentally landed me right in the heart of the hood. I was at a corner store and had just finished dealing with a 'friend' (he always called me 'my brother'- wasnt i special) when about 5 or 6 other guys come up to us who he knew. They were talking briefly, I was getting ready to start getting back in my car, when things instantly got very confusing, the guy who i had been there with yelled NO, Don't do it, 3 or four guys started beating me, and this big guy standing up started yelling that I owed him money. Meanwhile 'my brother' dissapeared.

Now I got beat, and cut up and was bleeding and my clother were torn but somehow I got through them and into my car. Before I locked it the big guy got in, and started trying to grab whatever I had in my shirt pocket. I grabbed his arm , got it out, and pushed him away from the car.

To this day, I still cant figure out exactly how I got out of that, and especially how I was able to get the big guy away from me. If you knew me you would understand. I am very far away from being anything that resembles a tough guy.
A long, long time ago I made a decision that even though I am a complete chicken, were you are in I situation where you have to stand and fight, stand and fight, for the consequences of backing down can be far more dangerous.

But these guys, nothing really hurt while they were attacking me. Maybe it was adrenaline, but it felt like little kids hitting me. Dont get me wrong though, I was petrified, and then some.

When I got to the hospitol, I saw my little boy all clean and cuddly and safe in his nice pajamas with his mom, and then I saw an image in my mind of me lying on the ground and a bunch of guys attacking me, and I was ashamed and disgusted. How dare I put this beautiful childs father (me) at risk.

TO THIS DAY, ABOUT 13 YEARS LATER, I STILL SEE BOTH IMAGES FIRMLY EMBEDDED IN MY MIND. I had turned myself into something I never imagined becoming, and had not realized it till then. I think this is the most shameful thing I ever did, and this is the first and probably the last time I will ever tell anybody.

By the way, that never deterred me. The next morning I was back.
One thing I had to learn was to stop taking pills I had to stop taking pills. I had to break the habit of popping a pill in my mouth whenever I felt like it. I couldn't break the habit until I stopped taklng pills. It sounds to me that sub is not working for you. If you are still taking them addictively you are not breaking the cycle. Does that make sense? What do you want to do? I assume you want to stop the cycle. Correct me if I'm wrong. We can live a life without any substances. What do you do for the thinking part of your addiction? Do you go to meetings or therapy? Or are you hoping sub alone with do the trick?
Todd, u went cold from H, wow. Yeah, i doubt 100 mg of perc would help much if u were up 2 3 or 4 bags,

Darvocet or better yet pure darvon without the tylenol can be very helpful with withdrawels- though there are some limitations. For what its worth (besides making me try to sound like a know something) they are 2/3 the chemical structure of methadone- which ,,when u really think about it, probably doesnt mean all that much. But I always used to like to have darvon and a few x's or v's around for emergencies.

They both appeal to me as much as alcohal, which is not at all, so i could always hang on to them. I'm thinking there is a good chance it might not be so bad for a couple reasons:

It is already day 6. Now I had 6 days of small amounts of methadone (they started me at 15 mg and allowed me up 5 a day, yesterday I had 40. ) I have been off meth for about a year, so there was some effectiveness in these small doses.

I am hoping that the combo of the halflife , and the builup, that I will get at least another day or twos worth of relief from the meth that I took. If I get too uncomfortable where I cant function - i might get another dose Saturday (u can, I gather miss 2 days , no probleM)

I believe I must be careful and not cut things to close with the sub and the meth- but i figure with these small doses, 2 days should be safe.

*****THIS IS KIND OF A TANGENT, but the way these programs in Ocalla and Gainesville now run-- are seriously flawed. The nice thing about Ocalla is that the people running it are pretty nice, counseling is available if you want it, and even though it is ridiculously expensive ($14 a day for meth, $25 for suboxone-and I have heard from a reliable source ( i do not know this first hand) that some clinics actually have the patient take the full dose at once in front of the nurse. (so intead of taking 8 mgs every 8 hrs u take 24 mgs all at the same time. )

What I felt was really decent about Ocala in the past has drastically changed in a terribly negative way. They always followed state guidelines and at the same time made a sincere effort to help individuals in different situations.

For example the starting dose is based on a point system dealing with obvious things like type of drug, amount per day, length of time, how its taken, etc. The nurse had never heard of one of the narcotics i had been prescribed and said was one of the main drugs i had been taking. Because of its potency and similar effects (stronger I thouht ) to the most popular schedule 1, the FDA would not originally approve it. I guess they did a couple years ago.

Since the nurse never heard of it, I explained its strength. Even so, she somehow came up with a number that was equivalent to the lowest starting dosage. Now this nurse has known me for years from last time I was a patient, knew the formula was not correct for me, and had been hoping the Dr would increase it. Now some of these methadone intake Drs. are top shelf, but many are simply in it for a quick buck, making certain they do exactly the minimum required, and always making certain to cover their behinds.

When the nurse asked me if the Dr increased the dose i Just laughed.

Of course none of this matters to me for what i am going to end up doing, BUT I HONESTLY DO NOT SEE HOW A METHADONE PROGRAM administered this way can be successful with new people who probably should get on methadone.

I definitely see how it could be beneficial TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO continue getting high and now have legal acess to an additional drug that is readilly available.

I also see how it could work well for people who are probably making a very poor decision by getting on methadone:, like someone with a moderate codiene or vicoden or darvon habit ,

Someone taking say 50 or even more mg of hydro. a day would probably have any wds eliminated, or close to, on 15 mgs of meth. They probly would even get a pleasant buzz. In the next couple days, with their dose going up 5 a day, they would be flying.

Compare THAT TO SOMEONE WHO REALLY COULD BENEFIT FROM METHADONE- A COUPLE HUNDRED MG OR MORE OC user, or an H user or similar.

There is no way in hell 15 or 20 mg would touch the WD's. By going up 5 mg a day, you would be in almost complete withdrawel for the better part of a week, and then gradually obtain some relief. It would take some people a few weeks to a month to start getting completely off of E. I'm not sure that anyone with a serious habit (which is what meth is designed for) would bother with that nonsense, and piss away 14.00 a day while doing so.

I gues if you had a lot of money and were trying to figure out some kind of emergency backup system - maybe. ANYWAY, LIKE I SAID, THEIR SYSTEM IS A SHAME-

IT NO LONGER WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT, AND IT GETS PEOPLE WHO DONT HOOKED ON A STRONGER DRUG THEN THEY USED TO TAKE.


Anyway, I went off way to far on a tangent that probably means nothing to no one and I doubt will even be read.

A brief quick comment on Gainesville clinic---It is supposed to be "not for profit, yet it cost $14 a day & u need to come up with just under $200 (about $100 intake fee and $100 for a weeks worth of doses) to get in.

Then you are supposed to pay a full week in advance every week.

They dont take any insurances (and im not sure which, if any, insurance covers it.)

But bless their hearts, they do have a big exception, they take medicaid which pays for the program in full.

ISNT THIS WONDERFUL, NOT FOR PROFIT PLACE GREAT? They charge $14.00 a day, the same as the for profit places that make all kinds of ridiculous money. Methadone has been around a long time, so even on a bad day it cant cost much more then ibupropen, which means they are making money hands over foot.

So here you are, working, and every single check you see them take out money for medicaid, which you make a little to much to get , since you are working for maybe $10 or $12.00 an hour. And this wonderful, NOT FOR profit treatment center does not let you carry much of a balance (if any) - ultimately no money- too bad, get sick.

If they are not for profit, fees should completely be baised on income, and no one should be not medicated because they cant afford it.


ANYWAY, LIKE I SAID, I WENT WAY OFF AND NO LONGER NO WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.
AWEST,

I really do appreciate your not so subtle hint. You are correct of course. Every now and then I blind myself to the obvious:

What I have been doing hasnt worked, & when it does it is short lived.

There are people out there who have an answer as evidenced by the fact that it has worked for so many of them.

Duh, I wonder if it maybe would work for me.

I am going to start going back to NA & I am totaly serious when I say thank you for slapping me in the face with it.

I found a meeting I really like on Tuesdays right around the corner, and for no valid reason, just stopped going. It's crossed my mind, but the actual time is right now to make a commitment to myself that I will at least go their this Tuesday.

It is so obvious, but it needed to be said.
Good luck, Harry. I hope you find some kindred spirits who can walk with you in your journey.
12 stepper

yes and no and thanks for ur comment. The sub really did work well for me -doing what i did was a big mistake. Usually, I hand the bottle to my wife unopened, and she gives me my dose.

well i started getting annoyed with having to ask her, and felt like a little kid. Now I know & i doubt i will make that mistake again, even if i hold them- i just wont take chances anymore.

Ya see 12 stepper, sub doesnt get me high or do anything like that. it might help a little with my depression- but i have other medication for that. What sub does do for me is eliminate any and all cravings and narcotics desire & for the most part i have become, me again.

This relapse or whatever u want to call it , was definitely drug like behaviour, with no kind of reward. I'm starting to gain what I think is a little insight as to what happened and why it happened.

I think the catalyst for understanding my behaviour and preventing it in the future was honestly opening up to someone (u folks) , gaining relief from the heavy burden of my shame and guilt by what seems to have amounted to taking it off my soul and putting it on the table.

Everyones comments have stimulated my own thinking and I am open to being honest and accepting or at least considering genuine criticism.

PART OF WHAT I THINK WAS GOING ON WAS THIS:
From my youth drugs have always been a (poisonous) 'friend.'

I might be lonely, my girlfriend might have dumped me, my parents may feel ashamed of or dissapointed in me, I might have dorky clothes or been picked on by some guy in high school or rejected by some people, or made fun of-- But one thing always worked and always made the rats dissapear.

As I got older, after many years of (dry) clean time, as much as I told myself I was going to be careful to not get back into any kind of heavy drinking or drugs after my wife left me out of the blue, eventually I went back, only worse then I ever was. The magic was there, and more, for I learned how to function in 2 worlds.

What happened in the last couple months was I think an attempt at regression (not consciously) for something to grant me relief, even though I knew this would have no such effect. They served as a form, without substance.

We all go thru hard times and challenges. But (and i say this only as an explanation, not justification or a plea for anyone to feel sorry for me) I have been going thru some continuous, almost unexplainable, negative employment occurences. I,ve been trying to make some honest sense out of things.

It's like recently , no matter what I do, job after job after job, I have been in almost impossibly bad circumstances, and no matter what I do - it doesn't work.

I finally decided that there has to be something that I have been doing again and again that is absolutely wrong. I know longer was able to have any kind of objectivity - it was happening just to much and it must be me. I would analyze everything, find what I had been doing wrong, and correct it.

Meanwhile, I got a new commision sales job. This was at a place where I honestly felt that if I followed their methods, did what they said, and put in extra effort, I would start making some decent money and in not to long a period of time I would make good money.

Though I was an independent agent, with my own license, the new people were each assigned to a senior person, whose job was to help us get acclimated to the company, give us guidance, orient us to some practicle things that we had to do, and help make us a success. These guys were above us, and in a sense our boses. They were lead agents who also initially would go with us on any leads we generated and make the sale until we were competent to do so ourselves. (They would get half and we would get half the commission.

The biggest benefit they got from us lie in the future. As long as they were our lead agent, they got an over ride on all our sales. Sales is what I do and I am very good at it. I believed we had an excellent product and I was ready to fully commit myself to this company. This guy didn't know me or anything about me, but I was going to end up making him some decent extra money.

This company was a very positive, friendly, sales oriented organization. Their didn't appear to be any benefit to office politics, for that would certainly interfere with the person involved making money. Good salesmen rarely get into silly things like power trips, as they are nothing but distractions.

My first day was a Monday which is a day you sit in the office and spend much of the day on the phone trying to set appointments. After a couple hours worth of calls, I got up, and was taking a little break from making calls by briefly looking over various forms, etc. In they area with the forms were a few computers, and a couple of the other new guys were looking over these online classes we had to take over the next 30 days or so.

Their sales managers had given them a company notebook , with various instructions as to how to take classes , etc. They also had gone over the various computer screens, showed them different things, what classes were required, where everything was, etc. I asked these guys some questions, and was trying to figure out how to get to the classes when my manager comes in there and snaps at me that I need to do the classes on my own time. Today I need to make calls.

I told him I was tring to figure out how to get to the classes , etc and he quickly snaps, you press blah blah blah blah blah.

Anyway, to make a long story short, this guy was not doing what he was supposed to with me and was treating me kind of like - well with no respect. From his saying hit this this and this, I was not able to undertand how to properly get to the courses. I asked him again, and when he started snapping I politely apologized, told him that I needed him to actually show me on the computer while I wrote it down. He acted like I was an idiot, but irratably showed me. ( I discovered a few days later that all this information was in an orientation book he was supposed to give me which he never did. I found a book laying around that was someones who no longer worked there, and used that.)

I was determined not to let any of this stuff bother me. I focused on the big picture, knew it was temporary, and simply wanted to learn my job and make money. I was able to make 2 appointments the next day. Even though upper management had told me to worry about nothing other then my own schedule when making appointments, if this guy couldnt get there hed simply get another manager to go, this guy restricted me to making appointments around his schecule. I played things cool , and just did what this guy said. No way was I gonna let this petty crap interfere with me.

Well Tuesday comes, and we went in his vehicle. First stop was a ways, and we would be spending the day together, so I tried to engage in some friendly conversation with him. He was barely responsive. Eventually I started asking some general questions about some different products, etc, and was getting dismissive answers. Now I have been in a similar environment many times over the years in different jobs. I would be with someone new to the company for the day, or I would be new to a company with a manager or owner.

I can not remember one time where I as the manager with a person I was training, or vice versa, that we did not use a good deal of the driving time discussing company issues, sales techniques, and various things that needed to be learned. It is always an excellent time for informal training. This guy mostly ignored me which is indicative of either blatent disrespect, incompetance, or simply trying to pull a power trip. Their is nothing else. I've learned in those situations, you simply cant win. So I just shut up and started reading some policies.

Then his cell phone started ringing. He had it on speaker and it was one of his kids yelling about another one of his kids. Then it rang again, another of his kids. Then he called someone, and we pulled to the side of the road. It was another of his family members, and he went on talking , and talking and we are sitting and sitting, and they are dealing with some stupid problem that I would never have gotten involved in at work, especially with someone else in the car, especially on speaker. To him it was as if I wasnt there. I also really did not feel like listening to this nonsense, so I finally got out of his car with the excuse that I wanted a smoke.

ANYWAY, WHEN WE GOT TO MY CUSTOMERS HOME, I finally had to subtely try something as he improperly (and without a valid reason) presented the product , made no attempt to close the deal when the customer brought up a couple of objections that were simply accepted rather then trying to deal with them as a professional and close the deal. On top of that, he had only presented her with one option, which was the most expensive and had things she had no use for. If someone from another company had gotten an appointment after us, he would have easily sold it by getting her the correct thing for less money. Now he was my trainer, but this was my customer, and my money. I had compromised as much as I could with this guy & I couldnt simply have us walk out the door and toss this deal to someone else.

So I very nicely and professionally said "Mrs. X, I appreciate you letting us see you today. Now you know I'm just a trainee, but I just want to clarify something on these products listed here. I say this because just learning it I know it can look confusing at first.

continued


Then I simply said that this is showing several products and this is the one he showed you because of the way it fits your needs. Here it shows the prices for the one he showed you, and here are some even lower prices for some that have a few less options.

Now what he could have done at an absolute minimum was used that segway to go thru one that was less expensive and while doing so try to subtelly overcome her other objections and close the deal.

He gathered up the papers, said goodbye and told her to call him with any questions.

When we got in the car he politely yelled at me that I should not have said anything, my job was just to shut up and learn. I told him he was right, and normally I wouldnt - but I felt she needed to be aware there were less expensive products


ANYWAY, IM SORRY FOR ALL THIS DETAIL. To make a long story short, for whatever reason this guy was into some kind of power trip. He tried to put down and actually laughed at my confidence.

This guy was somewhere in his 50s. Perhaps he always got young inexperienced kids he could freely push around, and be the big man. I really tried till I knew I had to do something, I spoke with another manager who advised me to speak with the top guy, who clearly seemed to understand what I was saying. Much of my focus was how the sale was handled improperly

I did tell him I thought the guy was a fine guy,,but it would be better for the company,.....

He agreed with me, and was in the process of finding me a new sales manager. A few days later he was out, I was terminated but one of his subordinates, who infomred me that if i had a problem with this guy I should have talked to him or his boss. When I told him i talked to his boss, he was clearly surprised. I asked him who I was supposed to talk to about this guy, he refused to tell me - but I definitely did.

Maybe it was the other manager who i asked for advice, i dont know.

What I did know is i was terminated again . That night I finally decided that somehow I am fooling myself and I am no longer competent and things have to be my fault, because these situations just keep on occuring to me

I became an instrument of doubt. I dont think i was really taking thos to get high, more like to regress to a time when things were comfortable. who knows, im surprised i didnt start hopping trains, or stealing cars and joyriding, or get in a fight or anything stupid.

Now i am joking a little, maybe i could regress to hopping a train, but i certainly dont want to get my a** kicked or go to jail.
Hi Browndog

Thanks for being here. This is just a suggestion, but do you think you might condense some of your posts for those of us with attention disorders, (Just Kidding).

Personally I have experienced that any type of growth was impossible while I was still using.With one exception I was able to endure even deeper levels of degradation.

I never tired the newer drug maintenance programs that are available so I can't relate to those. I had a brief go at methadone, which I abused and took with some xanax, that didn't work for me.

I was just wondering if you wanted to stop using drugs all together or find a drug maintenance program which allows you to function in society. Either one is cool, I'm just not sure which one it is your after.

Best wishes
Forgive yourself Harry. You're not bad, you're sick. I'm sure if you were sober you would not have done those things. I know I wouldn't have. I did it when I was totally powerless. Now that I have a choice, I uually make the right decisions.
Hey guys, some good points there. Dead head, even though u were half joking, i sometimes aggravate myself with my long posts -especialllyy when i want to make a quick point and go.

Sometimes when i post here my words take on a life of their own. Im trying to get back into writing and have been working on a few different short stories - but it's like pulling teeth trying to get words out, etc

Right now I think my best available choice is suboxen

I am working on trying to trully forgive myself-


GOODNITE
You are one very gifted dude, With so much to offer, having read your posts they both make me think and feel, what more would a writer wish to accomplish.

Quite all of that noise for a second brother and listen to the silence. It's got a power all it's own.

Keep coming back.
I agree. Harry - I'm sure you've heard this, but prayer is talking to your HP, meditation is listening. See if you can shut your thoughts down for a few minutes and listen...you might get some answers to all those questions swirling around in your head!
AM, it is hard for me to believe you are the same person who announced a year ago that you had decided to just keep on using.

It sounds like you are really getting it. Your journey may help countless others. Keep at it. Sooner or later we lose our grasp on that hard resolve to stay clean (that is our addict trying to suck us back in) and then it takes reliance on our HP to stay sober, just for today.

You are an amazing gift to this board.

One Day at a Time.