I decided to start a new topic to post out progress.
Quick recap of our situation: me and the Mrs have been abusing Oxycontin for over four years, somehow we never crushed or snorted. We take 'em for pleasure.....naturally, we now need them just to function. She was taking one or 2 Oxycontin # 40 a day and I was up to four or even five once in a while. Over the past few weeks I have tapered all the way down to one a day - yesterday and today after having done 2 a day for 8 days. We "fill in" with a vicodan or three daily.
We both have been tapering for a few weeks as our plan was to detox during vacation. Wel, here we are.
Yesterday, Mrs darnell did nothing but a couple of vikes and today has done 1/2 of a 2mg Suboxone pill. She is feeling tired but OK WD's are not bad.
I have taken my last 40 today, will take a vike later and then crash with a valium and a flexoril. Tomorrow, the plan for me is to either fight through CT or take a small amount of Suboxone. If I do get on the sub, it will only be for 5 or 6 days to get through the worst of the Wd's. I have an arsenal of OTC WD meds, vitamins and of course immodium. I plan to eat lots of bananas and rice etc.
That is our story and we will keep you informed.
PS - Also ordered some Kratom, undecided whether to play with that stuff or not...it seems interesting. I don't know whether it mixes with Sub or not though, so may wait until we are done with the sub before playing with Kratom. I have the need to get a "buzz" on from time to time and think if I can go back to using and not abusing, I will make it without dreaded opiates. Opiates (for recreation not pain) are evil, "they" ( I know I did it is all me) got me addicted and they got me to break a life of using but never abusing drugs.
Darnell quotes- "I have the need to get a "buzz" on from time to time and think if I can go back to using and not abusing,"
Darnell-When you get serious this is a great place for help, but if that indeed is your goal[the above quote],this aint the place.
Too many coming here needing help to get clean.We are not a stop over cafe on your journey to find more buzzes.I as well as others spend a lot of time pouring our hearts and souls out to people wanting to get clean.I am not going to waste my energy trying to help you find an easy way out of this situation so you can go ahead and pursue the next high.
Addiction is a deadly disease.This is not a game.I hope you and your partner find help because oxys will take you down a lot further.
Peace Out
Darnell-When you get serious this is a great place for help, but if that indeed is your goal[the above quote],this aint the place.
Too many coming here needing help to get clean.We are not a stop over cafe on your journey to find more buzzes.I as well as others spend a lot of time pouring our hearts and souls out to people wanting to get clean.I am not going to waste my energy trying to help you find an easy way out of this situation so you can go ahead and pursue the next high.
Addiction is a deadly disease.This is not a game.I hope you and your partner find help because oxys will take you down a lot further.
Peace Out
Tim well said.......... Occasionally getting a fixed once an addict is being an addict........sorry buddy its time to get true to yourself, own up to what your doing flush the drugs and move on to a happier place called complete sobriety. When you are real about it we are here to help and I must say sometimes we a darn good at it.
Get God in your life too if he isnt already there cause your going to need him, greatest strength youll ever find.
Prayers
Jacque
Get God in your life too if he isnt already there cause your going to need him, greatest strength youll ever find.
Prayers
Jacque
posted by darnell ,
Opiates, being used for whatever reason, are, in my opinion, no more evil than alcohol, benzos, barbituates, cocaine whatever. I used to think like you did, that I just wasn't disciplined, that,in spite of my addiction, somehow I could get a "buzz"on, without it getting out of control, yet again. My first drug substitute/replacemwent was booze. It interacted terribly with my anti-depressant, so I thought, "Wait, I know what "works", I can go back to the opiates and just be much more disciplined about it". Two words to describe the results...crash...burn.
You still need your "buzz on". Have you ever asked yourself why? What exactly do you think you are getting out of it that you couldn't possibly get from some non-chemical means? Is it really worth the risk or relapsing back into addictive drug usage? Just for a few hours of a "buzz on"?
You may have been able to use drugs without being addicted but you have, at this point, crossed that line, waaay crossed that line. In my opinion, going back to how it was before is very difficult. Very few addicts are able to return to controlled usage of their drug of choice. Some even have trouble with social usage of other drugs, even if they didn't abuse them before. I am especially worried in that you are trying to substitute with a drug that is supposed to mimic your drugs of choice. I feel that is just going in circles.....If you are just considering harm reduction, I would recomment rather a methadone or suboxone maintenance. In both cases, you are getting known drugs, of known purity and dosage, under controlled conditions. I do truly hate the "natural" label. Lots of drugs are "natural". Alcohol can come from "natural" sources, pot too, and let's not forget opium....
The way I look at it, the problem wasn't any particular drug, it was me. There are lots of people who can use a particular drug strictly socially, or under controlled use. All I know is that I ain't one of them, and from what you posted about yourself, you can't either, at least for opiates.
["they" ( I know I did it is all me) got me addicted and they got me to break a life of using but never abusing drugs.] In one breath you say it is all you and in the other you say they got you addicted. They didn't do anything, you did. You can't have it both ways. Accept responsiblity...or don't.
As you have said in previous posts, "What is so wrong with loving opiates?" If you aren't worried about that, what do you even ask? You have to accept there is a serious problem here...or don't...and just keep what you are doing. What problem is there...right?
As far as I am concerned, this board should be wide open, other than to insult, or threaten, yourself or others or...as a recipe for controlled drug usage. That is NOT the point of this board. There are lots of other boards for active drug users who want to keep being drug users and who are trying to avoid the physical/emotional/psychological/social and legal ramnificaitons of their drug addictions, perhaps you should try them.
Hey, if you can get your "controlled buzzes on" with Kratom, more power to you. I actually sincerely hope you do succeed as that would be much better than if you don't i.e back into addictive usage with opiates, Kratom, whatever. I just feel you might have wasted an opportunity for growth. Recovery, in my opinion, is a great way for us to help discover exactly how we truly tick, our strengths and weaknesses and how we can make ourselves more in-tune people.....
| QUOTE |
(Note: This is in regard to Kratom--ElimGarak) I have the need to get a "buzz" on from time to time and think if I can go back to using and not abusing, I will make it without dreaded opiates. Opiates (for recreation not pain) are evil, "they" ( I know I did it is all me) got me addicted and they got me to break a life of using but never abusing drugs. Opiates (for recreation not pain) are evil, "they" ( I know I did it is all me) got me addicted and they got me to break a life of using but never abusing drugs. |
Opiates, being used for whatever reason, are, in my opinion, no more evil than alcohol, benzos, barbituates, cocaine whatever. I used to think like you did, that I just wasn't disciplined, that,in spite of my addiction, somehow I could get a "buzz"on, without it getting out of control, yet again. My first drug substitute/replacemwent was booze. It interacted terribly with my anti-depressant, so I thought, "Wait, I know what "works", I can go back to the opiates and just be much more disciplined about it". Two words to describe the results...crash...burn.
You still need your "buzz on". Have you ever asked yourself why? What exactly do you think you are getting out of it that you couldn't possibly get from some non-chemical means? Is it really worth the risk or relapsing back into addictive drug usage? Just for a few hours of a "buzz on"?
You may have been able to use drugs without being addicted but you have, at this point, crossed that line, waaay crossed that line. In my opinion, going back to how it was before is very difficult. Very few addicts are able to return to controlled usage of their drug of choice. Some even have trouble with social usage of other drugs, even if they didn't abuse them before. I am especially worried in that you are trying to substitute with a drug that is supposed to mimic your drugs of choice. I feel that is just going in circles.....If you are just considering harm reduction, I would recomment rather a methadone or suboxone maintenance. In both cases, you are getting known drugs, of known purity and dosage, under controlled conditions. I do truly hate the "natural" label. Lots of drugs are "natural". Alcohol can come from "natural" sources, pot too, and let's not forget opium....
The way I look at it, the problem wasn't any particular drug, it was me. There are lots of people who can use a particular drug strictly socially, or under controlled use. All I know is that I ain't one of them, and from what you posted about yourself, you can't either, at least for opiates.
["they" ( I know I did it is all me) got me addicted and they got me to break a life of using but never abusing drugs.] In one breath you say it is all you and in the other you say they got you addicted. They didn't do anything, you did. You can't have it both ways. Accept responsiblity...or don't.
As you have said in previous posts, "What is so wrong with loving opiates?" If you aren't worried about that, what do you even ask? You have to accept there is a serious problem here...or don't...and just keep what you are doing. What problem is there...right?
As far as I am concerned, this board should be wide open, other than to insult, or threaten, yourself or others or...as a recipe for controlled drug usage. That is NOT the point of this board. There are lots of other boards for active drug users who want to keep being drug users and who are trying to avoid the physical/emotional/psychological/social and legal ramnificaitons of their drug addictions, perhaps you should try them.
Hey, if you can get your "controlled buzzes on" with Kratom, more power to you. I actually sincerely hope you do succeed as that would be much better than if you don't i.e back into addictive usage with opiates, Kratom, whatever. I just feel you might have wasted an opportunity for growth. Recovery, in my opinion, is a great way for us to help discover exactly how we truly tick, our strengths and weaknesses and how we can make ourselves more in-tune people.....
Tim & Jacque77...I am really offended that you have determined what this board is supposed to be for.
Where is it written, that just because a person becomes addicted to a substance - that they then must refrain from all subtances from now on.
Are you trying to suggest that Alcohol (for those not addicted to alcohol), or Pot, or even Benzo's (again, I state, for those able to use those drugs without having been or getting addicted to them) or even caffiene should never be used again because they are "drugs"?
Who are you to judge how SERIOUS I am?
I allowed myself to become addicted to Oxycontin, for that I must suffer through the process of getting off of that horrible drug and step away from my addiction. Obviously, I am a person that cannot simply use opiates. However, that does not mean I should never use any drug.
If you choose to only help those that desire to get off of all drugs and never use a drug, herb, alcohol or any other substance that gives one a"buzz" or a feeling of well being - than only talk to those people and don't talk to me.
I did come here seeking help and advice however and do appeciate.
Have you stopped to consider that if a person were to use a little pot or a take a drink now and again that can and is a GOOD thing if indeed it keeps that person totally away from the subtance that they became addcited to? I did not know that the addcition recovery board wasmeant ot be a place for complete sobriety. I thought that if one can overcome their addcition by ANY means possible, that would be the goal. Think about what you said please.
As for your response Elim - thank you for taking the time to present a logical comeback, I think you understood my main point being that - knowing myself and my need to get that "buzz" on from time to time, to be able to do that without an addictive substanbce is not bad or wrong. If that is what it takes to 'to rid myself of my oxycontin addiction - isn't that a good thing and shouldn't that qualify for the help of the good people from this group?
Where is it written, that just because a person becomes addicted to a substance - that they then must refrain from all subtances from now on.
Are you trying to suggest that Alcohol (for those not addicted to alcohol), or Pot, or even Benzo's (again, I state, for those able to use those drugs without having been or getting addicted to them) or even caffiene should never be used again because they are "drugs"?
Who are you to judge how SERIOUS I am?
I allowed myself to become addicted to Oxycontin, for that I must suffer through the process of getting off of that horrible drug and step away from my addiction. Obviously, I am a person that cannot simply use opiates. However, that does not mean I should never use any drug.
If you choose to only help those that desire to get off of all drugs and never use a drug, herb, alcohol or any other substance that gives one a"buzz" or a feeling of well being - than only talk to those people and don't talk to me.
I did come here seeking help and advice however and do appeciate.
Have you stopped to consider that if a person were to use a little pot or a take a drink now and again that can and is a GOOD thing if indeed it keeps that person totally away from the subtance that they became addcited to? I did not know that the addcition recovery board wasmeant ot be a place for complete sobriety. I thought that if one can overcome their addcition by ANY means possible, that would be the goal. Think about what you said please.
As for your response Elim - thank you for taking the time to present a logical comeback, I think you understood my main point being that - knowing myself and my need to get that "buzz" on from time to time, to be able to do that without an addictive substanbce is not bad or wrong. If that is what it takes to 'to rid myself of my oxycontin addiction - isn't that a good thing and shouldn't that qualify for the help of the good people from this group?
Darnell,
Can you do just one thing for me....please. Go read the Your Brain on Opiates thread. Please. After you do email me at mtenace@mail.nih.gov. Its not black and white. Many shades of grey. Please arm yourself with knowledge. Knowledge is Power.
Hang in there
michelle
Can you do just one thing for me....please. Go read the Your Brain on Opiates thread. Please. After you do email me at mtenace@mail.nih.gov. Its not black and white. Many shades of grey. Please arm yourself with knowledge. Knowledge is Power.
Hang in there
michelle
On a lighter note, with the karantom....I looked it up on the internet thru various sources. It is also addicting. The addiction has the same power as opiates. You start with small doses .3-.6 mg's and it stops working. You graduate to a higher dose, higher dose and then you stop. Now your in full blown withdrawls. As I understand they are just as bad as opiate withdrawals. I would be more than happy to send you the info I read. Its sad giving up the thought of a "buzz" but once you cross that line in addiction, I feel that the next substance will only be "substituted" for your last friend. It truely isnt safe. I just thought I would let you know I researched it. The intent of everyone was not to tick you offf, they are speaking from hard knocks they endured themselves. They tried other things and found out that you cant "dabble"....They were trying to help.
posted by darnell ,
Theirin, in my opinion, lies the problem. Your perception that you need to have that buzz. It is that kind of thinking that can lead chemical addicts into trouble. You might think to yourself, exactly what reasons am I justifying this? Do actually have to have this? What would happen if you didn't do this? Do you actually think you would not have as fufilling a life? This is the crux of the matter. If a non-addict were told that they couldn't smoke and/or drink anymore because of health reasons, they might not be the happiest person in the world, but they wouldn't be scrounging for chemical alternatives and would come to terms with it pretty quickly. You don't seem to present that scenario. It sounds, to me, that you are almost terrified of a "buzz free" future...That is a little scary to me...
What is more, you are trying to substitute with a drug that approximates the psychoactive effects of the opiates. Also highly not recommended. Kratom can/and will cause physcial habituation and the withdrawal symptoms, though less severe, resemble opiates. Also, I fear that you will find Kratom not good enough. Given your level of usage, you have developed no small amount of tolerance and the Kratom, as an opiate agonist of unknown potential, is not going to produce as much of that euphoria. So, you will either: 1) Have to escalate your dosage tremendously or 2) Back to the much more potent opiates . I don't like either option here. As I said before, if that is the route you wish, just do methadone or suboxone maintenance. Better controlled and also forces you to be accountable.
I am just hoping that perhaps you could give total sobriety a chance. In either case, as far as using substances addictively, controlled usage of other drugs does not increases chances of remaining clean from the drug of choice. All studies indicate otherwise.....
| QUOTE |
| I think you understood my main point being that - knowing myself and my NEED to get that "buzz" on from time to time, to be able to do that without an addictive substanbce is not bad or wrong. If that is what it takes to 'to rid myself of my oxycontin addiction - isn't that a good thing and shouldn't that qualify for the help of the good people from this group? |
Theirin, in my opinion, lies the problem. Your perception that you need to have that buzz. It is that kind of thinking that can lead chemical addicts into trouble. You might think to yourself, exactly what reasons am I justifying this? Do actually have to have this? What would happen if you didn't do this? Do you actually think you would not have as fufilling a life? This is the crux of the matter. If a non-addict were told that they couldn't smoke and/or drink anymore because of health reasons, they might not be the happiest person in the world, but they wouldn't be scrounging for chemical alternatives and would come to terms with it pretty quickly. You don't seem to present that scenario. It sounds, to me, that you are almost terrified of a "buzz free" future...That is a little scary to me...
What is more, you are trying to substitute with a drug that approximates the psychoactive effects of the opiates. Also highly not recommended. Kratom can/and will cause physcial habituation and the withdrawal symptoms, though less severe, resemble opiates. Also, I fear that you will find Kratom not good enough. Given your level of usage, you have developed no small amount of tolerance and the Kratom, as an opiate agonist of unknown potential, is not going to produce as much of that euphoria. So, you will either: 1) Have to escalate your dosage tremendously or 2) Back to the much more potent opiates . I don't like either option here. As I said before, if that is the route you wish, just do methadone or suboxone maintenance. Better controlled and also forces you to be accountable.
I am just hoping that perhaps you could give total sobriety a chance. In either case, as far as using substances addictively, controlled usage of other drugs does not increases chances of remaining clean from the drug of choice. All studies indicate otherwise.....
Thanks for the replies all - I don't know about the Kratom, reading up on it does appear to scary stuff in that if you use every day and build your tolerance up - addiction is sure to follow. Might one be able to use once or twice a month - maybe, once I am finally clean , I will be afraid to take that risk.
Maybe, and just humor me here, I can simply go back tp old friend Pot once in a while and leave it at that.
I do appreciate everyones help.
I am just going to focus on the next four days or five days of getting clean.
Maybe, and just humor me here, I can simply go back tp old friend Pot once in a while and leave it at that.
I do appreciate everyones help.
I am just going to focus on the next four days or five days of getting clean.
Darnell ask"-Have you stopped to consider that if a person were to use a little pot or a take a drink now and again that can and is a GOOD thing if indeed it keeps that person totally away from the subtance that they became addcited to?"
..................................boy have I ever.It kept me relapsing for about 10 years.
Darnell-I know you think Im a total a****** but I was sharing with you what denial really looks like.This is not a new concept.I really believed the way you do for years.I thought if I just switched my DOC, everything would be copaceptic.
There is something very wrong,as Elick explained so much better than I,with feeling like you need to have a buzz from a substance.Its not my opinion either.Any addictionoligist or therapist will tell you the same thing.
People coming on here are looking for a way out of that prison.They are not wanting to change cells.
I have been clean off everything for over a year.I know people in my support group who have much more time than that.We are happy people.Your body has the capacity to produce a "buzz" that no foreign chemical can even match.You will never learn that until you stop using substances to replace what your own body can do.
In all honesty do you think it was an accident you wound up on an addiction recovery board?
Just take time to educate yourself like Elick said.
I just know from experience that until I got clean,my brain had been so hijacked by all these substances,it was hard for me to even get honest.
Good Luck
..................................boy have I ever.It kept me relapsing for about 10 years.
Darnell-I know you think Im a total a****** but I was sharing with you what denial really looks like.This is not a new concept.I really believed the way you do for years.I thought if I just switched my DOC, everything would be copaceptic.
There is something very wrong,as Elick explained so much better than I,with feeling like you need to have a buzz from a substance.Its not my opinion either.Any addictionoligist or therapist will tell you the same thing.
People coming on here are looking for a way out of that prison.They are not wanting to change cells.
I have been clean off everything for over a year.I know people in my support group who have much more time than that.We are happy people.Your body has the capacity to produce a "buzz" that no foreign chemical can even match.You will never learn that until you stop using substances to replace what your own body can do.
In all honesty do you think it was an accident you wound up on an addiction recovery board?
Just take time to educate yourself like Elick said.
I just know from experience that until I got clean,my brain had been so hijacked by all these substances,it was hard for me to even get honest.
Good Luck
Tim well said....Darnell- we all said stuff like you saying now. On another board I read where sub. 0.3mgs. is equal to morphine 10mgs. = to heroin 6mgs. IV- don't know if this is true but food for thought. Sometimes we have to fall a little farther; continue to think we have control, and continue to think we don't have a disease.Addicts are known for denial myself included.You'll be back. My best to you and the mrs. JD
I guess you are all right...I cannot even think about anything now.
I just need to get though the next 5 days..and get to the other side.
I f I can only get to that point without WD's and feeling so horrible and not use any Oxycontin, then I will feel as if I accomplished something very hard to do.
Tim, I do not think of you in a bad way at all, i thank you for taking the time to even type to me,
I just need to get though the next 5 days..and get to the other side.
I f I can only get to that point without WD's and feeling so horrible and not use any Oxycontin, then I will feel as if I accomplished something very hard to do.
Tim, I do not think of you in a bad way at all, i thank you for taking the time to even type to me,
Hello Darnell- just read your post and I am sort of alarmed at the fact that you think it is okay to use another substance to get a buzz as long as it isn't your d.o.c. I have to agree with the above posts. I too went from one drug to another, thinking as long as I didn't do my favorite one I would be okay. For instance, when I was 17 my d.o.c was speed/coke. I did that for a few yrs and decided I should stop. But I continued with the pot and drinking. At about 20 yrs old I got pregnant and quit the pot and drinking. Then I had my son and started up with the opiates. I started dabbling in them and all the while thinking it was okay bc they weren't really drugs- they were prescribed. That was my stupidity talking. So here I am 25 and finally off of everything- and I mean everything. I think what you will find if you decide to use different substances for a periodic "buzz" ,is you will be right back where you started- addicted to something else. Before you know it, you will be battling another addiction. Best of Luck to you and God Bless!
Darnell:
How do you feel when you go to a concert - or just pop your fav CD in and jack up the music. Go to the movies or rent a good one. I get chills thinking of doing these things and I was doing Lortabs - didn't enjoy them as much while on Lortabs b/c I didn't have a lot of feeling. I now have my feeling back and an enjoy those simple things more.
And where is it writen that we have to have fun and get our buzz on all the time. Life is not always fun or easy and we work at it. If we just flew by, then how much high would high take?
We are not here that long. Try and take care of your bodies as most of us are trying now and find things that give you that buzz that won't ruin your lives.
Jean
How do you feel when you go to a concert - or just pop your fav CD in and jack up the music. Go to the movies or rent a good one. I get chills thinking of doing these things and I was doing Lortabs - didn't enjoy them as much while on Lortabs b/c I didn't have a lot of feeling. I now have my feeling back and an enjoy those simple things more.
And where is it writen that we have to have fun and get our buzz on all the time. Life is not always fun or easy and we work at it. If we just flew by, then how much high would high take?
We are not here that long. Try and take care of your bodies as most of us are trying now and find things that give you that buzz that won't ruin your lives.
Jean
Jean, very well put! :)
Have you all figured out how old we are?
Not that it should matter, it's just that I went through decade after decade using many a drug an always stayed happy, healthy and successful. It was not until the granddaddy of 'em all - Oxysuckcontin got ahold of us that we boith became addicted.
That very well could explain why I am saying what I am saying.
We are in our mid 50's.....
Not that it should matter, it's just that I went through decade after decade using many a drug an always stayed happy, healthy and successful. It was not until the granddaddy of 'em all - Oxysuckcontin got ahold of us that we boith became addicted.
That very well could explain why I am saying what I am saying.
We are in our mid 50's.....
Darnell-Its irrelevant.The problem is that you went through decades using drugs.
Normal people dont do that.They dont need to.
I made the most money in my life when I was on oxycontin.
As long as you have a substance in your body, its calling the shots.It will present every little senario to establish a plausible argument for its continued use.
My hope for you is that even though these dynamics are in place, a little piece of truth takes hold.
True freedom will upsurp any pretense to happiness that your addict brain will ever conjure up.
Have a good night.
Normal people dont do that.They dont need to.
I made the most money in my life when I was on oxycontin.
As long as you have a substance in your body, its calling the shots.It will present every little senario to establish a plausible argument for its continued use.
My hope for you is that even though these dynamics are in place, a little piece of truth takes hold.
True freedom will upsurp any pretense to happiness that your addict brain will ever conjure up.
Have a good night.
Kratom.....Here is some info on it, I think it should be avoided if you are seriously wanting to get clean and stay clean....Looks like it will cause more problems than anything else.....Oh and taking it with sub is not a good idea, nothing should be mixed with sub unless your doctor knows.....
"While the main alkaloids in kratom are structurally related to psychedelics, there appears to be no psychedelic activity. The dominant effects seem to be similar to opiate drugs, and include analgesia and cough suppression. These effects are roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Mitragynine suppresses opiate withdrawal, but its effects are not reversed by the opiate antagonist nalorphine. These opiate-like effects appear to be mediated mostly by delta and mu opioid receptors. In lower dosages, mitragynine exhibits a yohimbine-like binding to alpha-adrenergic receptors, as well as some binding to the delta opioid receptors. As doses increase, binding to delta receptors increases, and in yet higher doses, crossover to mu receptors occurs. Interestingly, mu crossover is increased by the presence of opiate drugs. While delta receptor selective opiate drugs have little abuse potential, it seems that they could be used as a primer which would allow mitragynine to more effectively bind to the mu receptor, which mediates the euphoric high produced by narcotics such as morphine.
Other effects of mitragynine are a reduction in smooth muscle tone, local anesthesia, and central nervous system depression. Acute side effects include dry mouth, increased urination, loss of appetite, and constipation coupled with small, blackish stools. Unlike opiates, mitragynine does not appear to cause nausea or vomiting. Heavy use can result in a prolonged sleep.
Side effects from long term use include anorexia and weight loss, insomnia, and a darkening of the skin, particularly on the cheeks, giving an appearance similar to a hepatic face. Among addicts, 30% report limited sexual desire and the need to use a combination of kratom and alcohol to become sexually stimulated. One study found 5 people who had psychotic conditions which may or may not have been revealed by very heavy kratom use. As discussed earlier, addiction seems to be a possibility if high doses are used. Some withdrawal symptoms reported by addicts include hostility, aggression, wet nose, inability to work, flow of tears, muscle and bone aches, and jerky limb movement.
While one study of Thai users reported that it is sedative in low doses changing over to stimulation in higher doses, this seems to be incorrect. Most other sources say that it is a stimulant in lower doses, becoming sedative in higher doses, which is consistent with mitragynine's receptor binding profile. Effects come on within five to ten minutes after use, and last for several hours. The feeling has been described as happy, strong, and active, with a strong desire to do work. The mind is described as calm. The Swiss biologist Claude Rifat experimented with a low dose of three smoked leaves and reported the effects reminded him somewhat of SSRIs, in that it blocked motivation, induced indifference, made doing everything boring, and brought on a strong laziness. It seems likely that these two almost opposite results may be influenced by cultural expectations."
"While the main alkaloids in kratom are structurally related to psychedelics, there appears to be no psychedelic activity. The dominant effects seem to be similar to opiate drugs, and include analgesia and cough suppression. These effects are roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Mitragynine suppresses opiate withdrawal, but its effects are not reversed by the opiate antagonist nalorphine. These opiate-like effects appear to be mediated mostly by delta and mu opioid receptors. In lower dosages, mitragynine exhibits a yohimbine-like binding to alpha-adrenergic receptors, as well as some binding to the delta opioid receptors. As doses increase, binding to delta receptors increases, and in yet higher doses, crossover to mu receptors occurs. Interestingly, mu crossover is increased by the presence of opiate drugs. While delta receptor selective opiate drugs have little abuse potential, it seems that they could be used as a primer which would allow mitragynine to more effectively bind to the mu receptor, which mediates the euphoric high produced by narcotics such as morphine.
Other effects of mitragynine are a reduction in smooth muscle tone, local anesthesia, and central nervous system depression. Acute side effects include dry mouth, increased urination, loss of appetite, and constipation coupled with small, blackish stools. Unlike opiates, mitragynine does not appear to cause nausea or vomiting. Heavy use can result in a prolonged sleep.
Side effects from long term use include anorexia and weight loss, insomnia, and a darkening of the skin, particularly on the cheeks, giving an appearance similar to a hepatic face. Among addicts, 30% report limited sexual desire and the need to use a combination of kratom and alcohol to become sexually stimulated. One study found 5 people who had psychotic conditions which may or may not have been revealed by very heavy kratom use. As discussed earlier, addiction seems to be a possibility if high doses are used. Some withdrawal symptoms reported by addicts include hostility, aggression, wet nose, inability to work, flow of tears, muscle and bone aches, and jerky limb movement.
While one study of Thai users reported that it is sedative in low doses changing over to stimulation in higher doses, this seems to be incorrect. Most other sources say that it is a stimulant in lower doses, becoming sedative in higher doses, which is consistent with mitragynine's receptor binding profile. Effects come on within five to ten minutes after use, and last for several hours. The feeling has been described as happy, strong, and active, with a strong desire to do work. The mind is described as calm. The Swiss biologist Claude Rifat experimented with a low dose of three smoked leaves and reported the effects reminded him somewhat of SSRIs, in that it blocked motivation, induced indifference, made doing everything boring, and brought on a strong laziness. It seems likely that these two almost opposite results may be influenced by cultural expectations."
Darnell, I hate to burst your bubble, but I think that you are in for a longer haul with oxy than 5 days.
It depends on how much and for how long you have been using.
But, I think you are in for a 15 day ride...
Good luck, and welcome.
Kerry
It depends on how much and for how long you have been using.
But, I think you are in for a 15 day ride...
Good luck, and welcome.
Kerry
Darnell,
Welcome, I posted you on another board. Congradulations, you and your wife are on the right road. Me and my husband both came off of Oxycontin. Little Beach (Kerry) is right re: coming off Oxycontin. If you have one week on vacation. I would start immediately. Throw the Sub away, unless you intend on staying on it with a Dr. It only lengthens your withdrawals. Many would suggest you get rid of the vic's too. You are looking at Day 1 (somewhat tolerable), Day 2 (More Difficult), Day 3 (Difficult), Day 4 (Moving A Little, and Feeling A Little Better), Day 5 (Feeling Much Better, Enough to get a few things done and Begin getting around,). Everyone is different, and others may not agree. But I would recommend you get thru the rough part as soon as possible, while you are in the frame of mind. Sorry if I sound pushy, but Kerry is right, as you know Oxycontin takes a couple days to get out of the system. Filling it with other meds will only continue to feed your addiction. I wish you both the very best. YOU GUYS ARE DOING GREAT!!!!!!! You have come so far. Take care, and keep posting. Best Wishes
Welcome, I posted you on another board. Congradulations, you and your wife are on the right road. Me and my husband both came off of Oxycontin. Little Beach (Kerry) is right re: coming off Oxycontin. If you have one week on vacation. I would start immediately. Throw the Sub away, unless you intend on staying on it with a Dr. It only lengthens your withdrawals. Many would suggest you get rid of the vic's too. You are looking at Day 1 (somewhat tolerable), Day 2 (More Difficult), Day 3 (Difficult), Day 4 (Moving A Little, and Feeling A Little Better), Day 5 (Feeling Much Better, Enough to get a few things done and Begin getting around,). Everyone is different, and others may not agree. But I would recommend you get thru the rough part as soon as possible, while you are in the frame of mind. Sorry if I sound pushy, but Kerry is right, as you know Oxycontin takes a couple days to get out of the system. Filling it with other meds will only continue to feed your addiction. I wish you both the very best. YOU GUYS ARE DOING GREAT!!!!!!! You have come so far. Take care, and keep posting. Best Wishes
