How better do i feel, i finally told my parents that my brother is on heroin, i feel better for telling them, but i feel terrible for them now, its all out in the open now at least..
hate seeing my dad upset, it all came out last night, my daughters birthday, he came to my house to give her presents to her, he was high, i had to tell my parents.
Atfer being at my house he went out, so i told them whats going on with him, my dad picked me up and we went to his house, we searched my brothers bedroom and found the foil screwed up into little balls and burnt, found the subatex, he couldnt deny it, he came home we all talked he was coming off the gear as hes eyes were back to normal, pupils were huge, but this morning seen my brother and his eyes are pinned again he said this is from the subbies can anyone tell me whether subbies make the pupils pinned.
Yep, they do.
Thanks, Diff, I needed to hear that. Someone on the suboxone forum also said that the strength they were taking made them feel a little high. Definitely not as high as heroin, but somewhat high.
How's our little momma doing?
Love,
Susan
How's our little momma doing?
Love,
Susan
Shell, ya did the right thing. You knew that in your heart I bet.
Diff, knows her stuff. I have no idea about the sub's. I was going to say maybe he could go to a rehab program. Not sure about his financial situation, but that'd be a good bet. Maybe NA meetings and you could go with him. Whatever it takes. I'm sorry your parents have to suffer that awful pain.
You still did the right thing though, Shell. Tell us how he's doing when you can.
Diff, knows her stuff. I have no idea about the sub's. I was going to say maybe he could go to a rehab program. Not sure about his financial situation, but that'd be a good bet. Maybe NA meetings and you could go with him. Whatever it takes. I'm sorry your parents have to suffer that awful pain.
You still did the right thing though, Shell. Tell us how he's doing when you can.
thanks for response, all this is driving me crazy with worry for him, i worried he will end up in a coffin or causing some serious damage to his body, my mum is in denial and thinks its just a phase, i want to grab her and shake her, i tell her to try and understand and read up about this, gave her some sites to look at, but whether she reads them is a different story.
If i had the money i would pay for him to have a detox in rehab but funds are limited.
My brother says hes ok and hes doing ok, but i dont think so at all, he also told me he hates me and will never come to me with anything. hes just lying all the time, dad searched his room again and found the same amount of subbies in his room and more foil, cant see him ever getting through this.
If i had the money i would pay for him to have a detox in rehab but funds are limited.
My brother says hes ok and hes doing ok, but i dont think so at all, he also told me he hates me and will never come to me with anything. hes just lying all the time, dad searched his room again and found the same amount of subbies in his room and more foil, cant see him ever getting through this.
Good for you
Dear Shell, I can see you falling into the same trap that most loved ones of addicts do (he doesn't hate you - the addict within hates you for interfering). Most families feel that they can do something to help, by sheer force of will, because it's what YOU want so badly for your brother. IMHO paying for someone to go into rehab before they specifically ask for it is a waste of money. I have big issues with rehab centres coz they are profit making businesses, and they prey upon peoples misery. Getting clean is fairly simple. Staying clean takes years of on going support, and rehab centres tend to get you in the door, get you detoxed, keep you in for maybe a few weeks, then you go back to your old environment and the vast majority of addicts then relapse.
There isn't much anybody can do until the addict themselves feels they've had enough of the drug, and want to stop. And again, you ask most addicts if they want to stop, and they say yes, but what they don't tell you is they want the drug MORE than they want to stop. It's a bit like saying that you'd like to be a vet, or a Dr, but the reality of completely rearranging your life and putting in the years of training are just a distant dream.
To get to the point where the addict is prepared to "do whatever it takes" to get clean, they normally have to suffer a great deal. And the only thing the families can do is to let go, to stop cushioning the blows, and to let the addict feel the full force of the consequences of their actions. This means cutting off all financial support, refusing to provide a roof over their head whilst in active addiction, and generally stopping bailing the addict out when they run into problems. You can tell your addicted loved one that you will provide every bit of help and support you can, BUT only when they are prepared to get serious about getting clean. The more they are faced with the reality of their situation, the quicker they will get to the point where they want to get clean.
You have to be wary. The addict will lie to you. They will steal from you. They'll give you every excuse and sob story they can think of. It tends to be when life has brought them to their knees, when they've lost everything, that they finally decide they've had enough.
All you can do is maybe find out what help is available, what support they may be able to access. Give them the information, and then let them sink or swim. As for yourself, I'd advise you to access support for families affected by addiction. Maybe ring your local probation office and ask, or look in the phone book. Talking to other people who are in your position maybe useful to you.
You cannot change him. All you can do is learn ways of dealing with your own pain, and learn how you can be supportive without enabling, because its a very fine line to tread. Love may be unconditional, but love doesn't give anybody the right to use you and abuse you. You can love your brother, but trust has to be earned. And right now he's lost the right to trust, and it's up to him to regain it, rather than you keep offering the trust just to have it trashed over and over. I know it's hard, but he also has the right to live his life how he chooses, and you have to step back and let him make that choice - but let him know that his choices have consequences, and he has to face those consequences on his own.
best wishes
Diff xxx
There isn't much anybody can do until the addict themselves feels they've had enough of the drug, and want to stop. And again, you ask most addicts if they want to stop, and they say yes, but what they don't tell you is they want the drug MORE than they want to stop. It's a bit like saying that you'd like to be a vet, or a Dr, but the reality of completely rearranging your life and putting in the years of training are just a distant dream.
To get to the point where the addict is prepared to "do whatever it takes" to get clean, they normally have to suffer a great deal. And the only thing the families can do is to let go, to stop cushioning the blows, and to let the addict feel the full force of the consequences of their actions. This means cutting off all financial support, refusing to provide a roof over their head whilst in active addiction, and generally stopping bailing the addict out when they run into problems. You can tell your addicted loved one that you will provide every bit of help and support you can, BUT only when they are prepared to get serious about getting clean. The more they are faced with the reality of their situation, the quicker they will get to the point where they want to get clean.
You have to be wary. The addict will lie to you. They will steal from you. They'll give you every excuse and sob story they can think of. It tends to be when life has brought them to their knees, when they've lost everything, that they finally decide they've had enough.
All you can do is maybe find out what help is available, what support they may be able to access. Give them the information, and then let them sink or swim. As for yourself, I'd advise you to access support for families affected by addiction. Maybe ring your local probation office and ask, or look in the phone book. Talking to other people who are in your position maybe useful to you.
You cannot change him. All you can do is learn ways of dealing with your own pain, and learn how you can be supportive without enabling, because its a very fine line to tread. Love may be unconditional, but love doesn't give anybody the right to use you and abuse you. You can love your brother, but trust has to be earned. And right now he's lost the right to trust, and it's up to him to regain it, rather than you keep offering the trust just to have it trashed over and over. I know it's hard, but he also has the right to live his life how he chooses, and you have to step back and let him make that choice - but let him know that his choices have consequences, and he has to face those consequences on his own.
best wishes
Diff xxx
Hi thanks diff for ur post was appreciated, i dont believe anything he says to me, i told my dad not to believe it either, had a good chat with my brother earlier, he said he wants to do this, but i think he was on the "h", i have foind with him the only time he talks is when hes on it, and when hes not on it he dont wanna talk to anyone, and just goes in his room, he did say the subs hes on are not holding him, so i did tell him to go from a 2mg to a 4mg tablet, not sure that was right of me to tell him that, kinda wish i hadnt as when hes on the 2 mg subby, it wasnt holding him which made him score, so i hope now he doesnt score when hes on the 4mg one, does it defeat the object when hes on the "h" and the subutex at the same time, and will it cause an o/d or does it send ya into w/d,or what happend, i know its a waste of time, heard loads of stuff on it, but my head is totally done it by this, i cant seem to keep this information in.
Hi Shell, I'll try and give you an explanation of how subutex work, but it's quite a complicated drug to explain. Basically, subutex is a kind of synthetic morphine. It binds to the opiate receptors in the brain, but it binds more tightly than natural morphine. So, if you take subutex whilst you are under the effects of heroin, it will knock the heroin off your brains receptors, thus sending you into withdrawal. However, if you have taken subutex, and then take heroin, the subutex will stop the heroin from "gaining access" to the opiate receptors, and you will not get high. You will probably feel quite ill - I know when I did it, I was sick, but not withdrawal sick, just puking and feeling nauseau.
Now the extent to which this affects you is pretty much down to how much you take. Subutex is only a complete blocker at doses of about 12mgs and above. The 2 or 4 mgs that your brother says he's taking are fairly low doses. I started at 16mgs of subutex a day, and I stuck to that for 9 months before reducing. So at the doses he is taking, it is only a partial blocker, which means he could take heroin and feel some effect, but not full effect. Also, I found that if you get into the habit of using subutex for a few days, then using heroin, the brain eventually somehow gets used to it, and you can pretty much take them at the same time, and feel a full high. However, I have not seen this documented anywhere - it's just my personal experience.
At the correct doses, subutex will stop all withdrawals, and has a long half life, which means it holds you stable and feeling well for longer. Methadone wears off fairly quickly, and you experience withdrawals much earlier. Subutex is a great drug for those who really want to get off heroin. But it doesn't replace the will to get clean. And it's not a quick fix. There is no easy option when tackling heroin addiction. It's always going to be an uphill struggle, and require more commitment and hard work than you ever envisaged, but subutex are a great tool for those prepared to do the work.
I won't say any more, coz I'm conscious that it's a lot of information to take in at once.
Best wishes
diff xxxx
Now the extent to which this affects you is pretty much down to how much you take. Subutex is only a complete blocker at doses of about 12mgs and above. The 2 or 4 mgs that your brother says he's taking are fairly low doses. I started at 16mgs of subutex a day, and I stuck to that for 9 months before reducing. So at the doses he is taking, it is only a partial blocker, which means he could take heroin and feel some effect, but not full effect. Also, I found that if you get into the habit of using subutex for a few days, then using heroin, the brain eventually somehow gets used to it, and you can pretty much take them at the same time, and feel a full high. However, I have not seen this documented anywhere - it's just my personal experience.
At the correct doses, subutex will stop all withdrawals, and has a long half life, which means it holds you stable and feeling well for longer. Methadone wears off fairly quickly, and you experience withdrawals much earlier. Subutex is a great drug for those who really want to get off heroin. But it doesn't replace the will to get clean. And it's not a quick fix. There is no easy option when tackling heroin addiction. It's always going to be an uphill struggle, and require more commitment and hard work than you ever envisaged, but subutex are a great tool for those prepared to do the work.
I won't say any more, coz I'm conscious that it's a lot of information to take in at once.
Best wishes
diff xxxx
Hi Susan, the little momma is doing well. I'm absolutely enormous now. Only got six weeks to go! There's lots of big changes going on here, which is why I haven't been writing about them, coz I want to see how things pan out. I had to turn down down the house I was offered - it needed too much work for me to cope with on my own and it was right out in the valleys and very difficult to get to, which meant I'd really be on my own, but have been told that I should be offered another one in a better location and condition with a couple of weeks.
But things with "him" have been a lot better recently. I think sometime over xmas it suddenly dawned on him that he'd hurt me almost beyond repair, and I was walking away from him with our child, not because I'm a b****, but because I couldn't cope, and he was breaking me. I think he got a reality check, and realised that me and the baby were the best things in his life, and he'd consistently wounded and rejected us, and he was going to lose us forever unless he did something about it. He always told me it wasn't possible for him to change. I always knew that change is possible if you want it enough, and I think he's grasped that now. Anyway, he's been much nicer to me, and has made a noticable effort not to upset me. He even listens to me occassionally! He's been more loving, kinder, and more respectful towards me. And the best thing is that he's finally taken an interest in the baby, and has accepted that her needs have to come before his own. He's let his family and friends get involved at last, and that's given me some of the emotional support he was denying me.
He's actually supporting my decision to get my own place and says he understands why I need it, but he wants to remain close to me, and says he'll help me in any way he can, if I give him the chance to be a proper dad to our little one. Anyway, a lot of the pain and misery has evaporated, I feel much more positive and happier, and am glad that I'm able to enjoy the last few weeks of the pregnancy. I have a huge capacity for forgiveness, and I do forgive him. I can't forget all that he's put me through, but I'm prepared to meet him halfway. I will still get my own place, but as long as he continues to be kind, loving and supportive, then he'll have a place in my life, and be part of my little family. I'm not vindictive. I want my daughter to have a daddy she can love, and rightly or wrongly, he is her daddy, and he says he wants to have a proper relationship with her, and I won't stand in his way.
So that's where I'm at. I do feel much happier than before, and that has to be a good thing.
love
Diff xxx
But things with "him" have been a lot better recently. I think sometime over xmas it suddenly dawned on him that he'd hurt me almost beyond repair, and I was walking away from him with our child, not because I'm a b****, but because I couldn't cope, and he was breaking me. I think he got a reality check, and realised that me and the baby were the best things in his life, and he'd consistently wounded and rejected us, and he was going to lose us forever unless he did something about it. He always told me it wasn't possible for him to change. I always knew that change is possible if you want it enough, and I think he's grasped that now. Anyway, he's been much nicer to me, and has made a noticable effort not to upset me. He even listens to me occassionally! He's been more loving, kinder, and more respectful towards me. And the best thing is that he's finally taken an interest in the baby, and has accepted that her needs have to come before his own. He's let his family and friends get involved at last, and that's given me some of the emotional support he was denying me.
He's actually supporting my decision to get my own place and says he understands why I need it, but he wants to remain close to me, and says he'll help me in any way he can, if I give him the chance to be a proper dad to our little one. Anyway, a lot of the pain and misery has evaporated, I feel much more positive and happier, and am glad that I'm able to enjoy the last few weeks of the pregnancy. I have a huge capacity for forgiveness, and I do forgive him. I can't forget all that he's put me through, but I'm prepared to meet him halfway. I will still get my own place, but as long as he continues to be kind, loving and supportive, then he'll have a place in my life, and be part of my little family. I'm not vindictive. I want my daughter to have a daddy she can love, and rightly or wrongly, he is her daddy, and he says he wants to have a proper relationship with her, and I won't stand in his way.
So that's where I'm at. I do feel much happier than before, and that has to be a good thing.
love
Diff xxx
Wow, Diff, I'm so happy to hear that he is changing and treating you the way you deserve to be treated. It is GREAT that this is all happening before the baby arrives so that you can relax and anticipate the arrival of your little blessing. I hope and pray that he continues to treat you nice. I also will keep you in my prayers for a peaceful and safe delivery of a beautiful, healthy baby. Keep us posted!
Love,
Susan
Love,
Susan
