Hi All...yes it has been 3 years and I did "fail" at detox and sub so I went back on pain mgmt and dealt with the guilt and got on with my life. So now my dose doesn't help the pain and my lupus is out of control. Will not up the dose but the misery, the sweating ,and the awful mood changed that opiates have put me through. Despite my Drs. recomendations I have started tapering down a large dose of oxycodone. Strictly for me. If it takes a year I don't care because there is no way but upping and upping the dose and I can't go there. What will the end result be? my Dr. says "Oh..don't worry...there is no ceiling on opiates...aas long as your body is tolerant we can keep upping the dose to help the pain. Puhleeeze! And is he going to wipe the torrential sweat off me in the morning and give me colonics for severe constupation...never mind urinary retention. I totally understand some people have no other choice but the price you must pay is not worth it. I guess it's back to advil and prednisone. Nice to see everyone old and lots of newbies. Love, S
It's nice to see you post Sharonn. Eventually people come back, especially when they're sick and tired of being sick and tired. There is no time limit on when to get clean. You leave yesterday alone and focus on today. Any way we can help, please reach out. You know from past experience that it helps to talk....
Hey sweety.....its nice to see you post.Though Im so sorry to hear about your Lupus getting so bad.
I give you alot of credit hun for wanting to decrease your pp meds.I cannot imagine what you need to go through to do that.Though Ive been tapering from Sub...its at very small doses so I dont feel THAT BAD.
Sharonon,I do want to say...hang strong & keep doing research.Why because they are always comming up with new things & who knows w2hat they may find that is both non addictive yet can help with pain control.
I know Ive been slack writting back....Theres been alot happening here & right now Id have to say my recovery has been tested to the limits.
But Im proud to say...the issue Im dealing with right now may be one of the most painful in my life...yet Im so proud to say...Im facing it HEAD on without abusing anything.
sorry didnt mean to make this about me.But I feel like bragging because if the situation Im dealing with had happened even last year...I KNOW I would of just fell back into the habit of hiding from the pain,mmaking excuses & most probaly abuse my poor body till there was nothing left....Not anymore Im stronger 7 more headstrong than that.
Sharon Id love to get aletter from you.Promise this time I WILL make time to reply.Ive missed our talks & as always if you need an extra pair of shoulders...mine are always here
Love Brina/mj
I give you alot of credit hun for wanting to decrease your pp meds.I cannot imagine what you need to go through to do that.Though Ive been tapering from Sub...its at very small doses so I dont feel THAT BAD.
Sharonon,I do want to say...hang strong & keep doing research.Why because they are always comming up with new things & who knows w2hat they may find that is both non addictive yet can help with pain control.
I know Ive been slack writting back....Theres been alot happening here & right now Id have to say my recovery has been tested to the limits.
But Im proud to say...the issue Im dealing with right now may be one of the most painful in my life...yet Im so proud to say...Im facing it HEAD on without abusing anything.
sorry didnt mean to make this about me.But I feel like bragging because if the situation Im dealing with had happened even last year...I KNOW I would of just fell back into the habit of hiding from the pain,mmaking excuses & most probaly abuse my poor body till there was nothing left....Not anymore Im stronger 7 more headstrong than that.
Sharon Id love to get aletter from you.Promise this time I WILL make time to reply.Ive missed our talks & as always if you need an extra pair of shoulders...mine are always here
Love Brina/mj
It's good to see you, Sharonn...
You are missed around here...
xoxo
Stacey
You are missed around here...
xoxo
Stacey
Thank you for your responses. Lisa...how is your health? Grandkids? So lucky...I do not have any yet.
Sharon,
It is such a difficult struggle for the addict in pain. Using gets out of hand, but besides wd's and craving, there is the pain.
Please take this for what it's worth - suboxone seems to have helped me a lot. Besides covering withdrawels it has eliminated my craving (and even if I were tempted, most narcotics wont work) and helped clear up my thinking. It also helps with pain.
I think some might see it as a crutch, but right now I need a crutch (sorry to say). The good news is it is nothing like methadone, no high or nodding or nothing. It is amazing how 'normal' I feel,
My shoulder still aches at times (I am no longer in big time pain like u are) but it is unimportant pain (what i used to call 'breakthrough pain') that I usually dont even use ibupropen for (because now I think maybe the slight pain helps me remember where I was and where I'm trying to go--crazy huh)
I'm sorry for your situation that is so difficult and you are brave by facing it and trying to resolve it when it is easy for u to simply go up on ur dosage.
To me it's about finding a good way to live life. I hope for the best for you - your strength of character is obvious.
It is such a difficult struggle for the addict in pain. Using gets out of hand, but besides wd's and craving, there is the pain.
Please take this for what it's worth - suboxone seems to have helped me a lot. Besides covering withdrawels it has eliminated my craving (and even if I were tempted, most narcotics wont work) and helped clear up my thinking. It also helps with pain.
I think some might see it as a crutch, but right now I need a crutch (sorry to say). The good news is it is nothing like methadone, no high or nodding or nothing. It is amazing how 'normal' I feel,
My shoulder still aches at times (I am no longer in big time pain like u are) but it is unimportant pain (what i used to call 'breakthrough pain') that I usually dont even use ibupropen for (because now I think maybe the slight pain helps me remember where I was and where I'm trying to go--crazy huh)
I'm sorry for your situation that is so difficult and you are brave by facing it and trying to resolve it when it is easy for u to simply go up on ur dosage.
To me it's about finding a good way to live life. I hope for the best for you - your strength of character is obvious.
Crutch?
"The good news is it is nothing like methadone, no high or nodding or nothing. It is amazing how 'normal' I feel,"
Normal is that what we strive for in recovery? Why do people question this drug instead of spend there time looking for an addiction specialist who can use suboxone with the other tools needed to stay sober one day at a time.
Normal sounds good to me.
I killed myself manipulating the system to get the best drugs at the cheapest prices. All types of meds and when I crashed in 2004 I used the same energy to find that special addiction specialist to get me started in my new recovery from oxycontin.
Today life is wonderful
Jeffrey
"The good news is it is nothing like methadone, no high or nodding or nothing. It is amazing how 'normal' I feel,"
Normal is that what we strive for in recovery? Why do people question this drug instead of spend there time looking for an addiction specialist who can use suboxone with the other tools needed to stay sober one day at a time.
Normal sounds good to me.
I killed myself manipulating the system to get the best drugs at the cheapest prices. All types of meds and when I crashed in 2004 I used the same energy to find that special addiction specialist to get me started in my new recovery from oxycontin.
Today life is wonderful
Jeffrey
Sharonn - I know you probably know this, but once you are off narcotics for awhile, your brain stops manufacturing pain, and stops begging for the pain medication.
Many of us have pain issues (that's what got us in trouble in the first place), but long-term use and constant upping of the dose is, as you know, not the answer.
I have severe hip bursitis, a herniated disk in my neck , and fibromyalgia. As I go longer and longer without opiates, my body is "calming down" and learning to live with OTC meds if needed.
There are other things like Celebrex, that may help. Prayer doesn't hurt either.
I'm sorry for your pain, and also sorry for all of us that have to live with pain. It doesn't seem fair that we need the meds but we can't help but abuse them. Hang in there, let us know how you're doing.
Many of us have pain issues (that's what got us in trouble in the first place), but long-term use and constant upping of the dose is, as you know, not the answer.
I have severe hip bursitis, a herniated disk in my neck , and fibromyalgia. As I go longer and longer without opiates, my body is "calming down" and learning to live with OTC meds if needed.
There are other things like Celebrex, that may help. Prayer doesn't hurt either.
I'm sorry for your pain, and also sorry for all of us that have to live with pain. It doesn't seem fair that we need the meds but we can't help but abuse them. Hang in there, let us know how you're doing.
Jeffrey/Suboxman-
I'm not exactly sure what you are getting with, when you say:
"Normal is that what we strive for in recovery? Why do people question this drug instead of spend there time looking for an addiction specialist who can use suboxone with the other tools needed to stay sober one day at a time."
When I said something about maybe people seeing me as using Sub as a crutch--
I GUESS I WAS TRYING TO BE UNCONTROVERSIAL. Certainly not putting down sub or myself or anyone who uses it.
And I was trying to just be 'nice' to anyone who says it's a crutch.
TO ME, AT THIS POINT IT IS A LIFE PRESERVER, PLAIN and simple. It is a good medicine which aids in my healing. THat is all.
I guess I was saying, nicely, if anyone sees me as using it as a crutch, I dont really care. It is medicine, that helps me- a lot.
One time I seriously injured my ankle and needed a crutch, and then a cane to walk. I never saw shame in that- just as I dont find any shame at all in sub, even if someone thinx it is a cruth in their way of thinking. If so, who cares. Whatever it is, or someone thinks it is, does not matter in the slightest to me. I KNOW WHAT IT IS.
At the same time, is the goal of recovery to feel 'normal'. I think that is one of them, but I am open to listen to what you mean.
I think it's great that u are putting all that effort into recovery, and if somehow i implied anything different at all, I DID NOT MEAN IT.
HARRY
I'm not exactly sure what you are getting with, when you say:
"Normal is that what we strive for in recovery? Why do people question this drug instead of spend there time looking for an addiction specialist who can use suboxone with the other tools needed to stay sober one day at a time."
When I said something about maybe people seeing me as using Sub as a crutch--
I GUESS I WAS TRYING TO BE UNCONTROVERSIAL. Certainly not putting down sub or myself or anyone who uses it.
And I was trying to just be 'nice' to anyone who says it's a crutch.
TO ME, AT THIS POINT IT IS A LIFE PRESERVER, PLAIN and simple. It is a good medicine which aids in my healing. THat is all.
I guess I was saying, nicely, if anyone sees me as using it as a crutch, I dont really care. It is medicine, that helps me- a lot.
One time I seriously injured my ankle and needed a crutch, and then a cane to walk. I never saw shame in that- just as I dont find any shame at all in sub, even if someone thinx it is a cruth in their way of thinking. If so, who cares. Whatever it is, or someone thinks it is, does not matter in the slightest to me. I KNOW WHAT IT IS.
At the same time, is the goal of recovery to feel 'normal'. I think that is one of them, but I am open to listen to what you mean.
I think it's great that u are putting all that effort into recovery, and if somehow i implied anything different at all, I DID NOT MEAN IT.
HARRY
I get in trouble from a certain someone here when I call Sub a crutch. But I don't mean it to be derogatory. I just mean that without a strong recovery PROGRAM that you are willing to work hard at in conjunction with Sub, it is just that, a crutch. It's keeping you from using for the time being, but it's not doing anything to help you live a clean and sober life for the rest of your life. That's just my opinion and not a medical fact...just something I've witnessed here on the board.
Sub is a tool, just like many other things in recovery. But it all comes down to how willing you are to do the hard work to stay clean. I've seen Sub save alot of lives. My son especially and I am grateful that it exsists.
Sub is a tool, just like many other things in recovery. But it all comes down to how willing you are to do the hard work to stay clean. I've seen Sub save alot of lives. My son especially and I am grateful that it exsists.
I agree. I dont think it will work if my whole recovery plan is to just forget about recovery and take sub until I don't need it anymore.
A few years back I tried it with methadone -2nd time I got on it. I remember talking to my shrink. I had gone to see him because of drugs, and he had seen me over a couple or few month period, quit, go thru some wd's I cnat remember em being that bad for some reason, think i was done , and I'd get triggered and use a short time, less then a couple months, then go thru the same cycle again, & again. Id go to na when i wasnt using & when i did, i didnt go cause i thought if u were high u couldnt go.
Anyway, I got sick of the cycle, sick of using, sick of quitting & sick of dealing with it. I think that was around the time i first started posting here., Anyway, in some ways I tried to bypass and forget the whole thing by simply getting on methadone. It worked and it didnt work. I wasnt using wn on it, and i felt away from drugs, but I'm not sure if I was getting anywhere.
So, I dont think sub in itself can be the complete answer. I have to do more. As far as the crutch metaphor, to me it's how u receive it, no matter what the intent of the sender. Like I said, I dont take it as any kind of insult even if someone tries, because, if a crutch is what it takes to help me heal, thats fine. I need that help. In some ways all tools that u use in recovery can be viewed as a crutch. The good thing about a crutch is if it helps u heel, then u dont need it any more. But even if however it turns out, I think its better to be able to walk with help then to fall and maybe never get up.
A few years back I tried it with methadone -2nd time I got on it. I remember talking to my shrink. I had gone to see him because of drugs, and he had seen me over a couple or few month period, quit, go thru some wd's I cnat remember em being that bad for some reason, think i was done , and I'd get triggered and use a short time, less then a couple months, then go thru the same cycle again, & again. Id go to na when i wasnt using & when i did, i didnt go cause i thought if u were high u couldnt go.
Anyway, I got sick of the cycle, sick of using, sick of quitting & sick of dealing with it. I think that was around the time i first started posting here., Anyway, in some ways I tried to bypass and forget the whole thing by simply getting on methadone. It worked and it didnt work. I wasnt using wn on it, and i felt away from drugs, but I'm not sure if I was getting anywhere.
So, I dont think sub in itself can be the complete answer. I have to do more. As far as the crutch metaphor, to me it's how u receive it, no matter what the intent of the sender. Like I said, I dont take it as any kind of insult even if someone tries, because, if a crutch is what it takes to help me heal, thats fine. I need that help. In some ways all tools that u use in recovery can be viewed as a crutch. The good thing about a crutch is if it helps u heel, then u dont need it any more. But even if however it turns out, I think its better to be able to walk with help then to fall and maybe never get up.
Lisa How can you say sub does nothing to help you get clean and sober. I only use my own story. I had been taking opiates for almost 30 years. Until the sub my habit was so out of control the last ??1-2 years I am not sure how long the abuse was but years and then sub came along.
The sub enables you to become 'NORMAL" you start to think again. No more opiates. The road to recovery began for me.
YES lisa I agree with you other aspects of recovery are needed., AA outpatient F2F --shrink --psychologist---But without the sub how do you stop the pills? How do you make logical decisions pertaining to your recovery if your eating and snorting oxcontin all day long?
And how long must we be in therapy. I see a shrink take my paxil and am doing much better,Not perfect but better. Life is manageable
Many people stay on sub forever as they cant stop opiates without it. Its not a crutch its an amazing medicine. I guess all meds are crutches.
IMO AA is filled with a lot of people who use the meeting as a crutch.Heck if it keeps them clean god bless them.
harry the word crutch just --I post my thoughts and opinions. Anybody who feels sub Isa crutch and they are not clean as they have been told or feel they are switching one opiate for another thats there business.
I feel someone on sub is 100% clean. Oldtimers when i went to meetings called me out as i was on a Anti depressant-
Anyway Harry whatever works for you is all that matters. I did not mean to upset or start a sub debate.
Harry Lisa--Good night
The sub enables you to become 'NORMAL" you start to think again. No more opiates. The road to recovery began for me.
YES lisa I agree with you other aspects of recovery are needed., AA outpatient F2F --shrink --psychologist---But without the sub how do you stop the pills? How do you make logical decisions pertaining to your recovery if your eating and snorting oxcontin all day long?
And how long must we be in therapy. I see a shrink take my paxil and am doing much better,Not perfect but better. Life is manageable
Many people stay on sub forever as they cant stop opiates without it. Its not a crutch its an amazing medicine. I guess all meds are crutches.
IMO AA is filled with a lot of people who use the meeting as a crutch.Heck if it keeps them clean god bless them.
harry the word crutch just --I post my thoughts and opinions. Anybody who feels sub Isa crutch and they are not clean as they have been told or feel they are switching one opiate for another thats there business.
I feel someone on sub is 100% clean. Oldtimers when i went to meetings called me out as i was on a Anti depressant-
Anyway Harry whatever works for you is all that matters. I did not mean to upset or start a sub debate.
Harry Lisa--Good night
Subman,
I'm pretty sure we might all be on the same page here, or close to it anyway.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as I use sub properly, I am clean. I'll go a step further, when I used methadone properly, I was clean. There are however a world of differences between sub & meth as u know.
Sub cant be abused (unless u somehow change it chemically into something else which i dont know or care if it is possible )
Mehtadone was very abusable.
I have no problem if I am on sub the rest of my life. To me it is a medicine like lexapro.
IT IS AN AMAZINGLY BENEFICIAL PRODUCT. One of the things I learned from a suboxen counselor, and literature, which I believe you have hinted at is:
OUR BRAINS WERE ACTUALLY HIJACKED BY NARCOTICS. THAT is an amazing concept, but I believe it is essentially true. We make decisions, often dangerous, that we would never have considered as options normally.
Sub almost immediately restores us by what almost seems like kicken all that crap out. My thinking is more clear. I dont crave at all, and even if I have a notion to try something, I know for a fact it wont do anything. I dont have to suffer thru weeks of various degrees of wd's, extreme apathy & serious depression.
Anyway,, goodnight to all & may God keep you safe.
Harry
I'm pretty sure we might all be on the same page here, or close to it anyway.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as I use sub properly, I am clean. I'll go a step further, when I used methadone properly, I was clean. There are however a world of differences between sub & meth as u know.
Sub cant be abused (unless u somehow change it chemically into something else which i dont know or care if it is possible )
Mehtadone was very abusable.
I have no problem if I am on sub the rest of my life. To me it is a medicine like lexapro.
IT IS AN AMAZINGLY BENEFICIAL PRODUCT. One of the things I learned from a suboxen counselor, and literature, which I believe you have hinted at is:
OUR BRAINS WERE ACTUALLY HIJACKED BY NARCOTICS. THAT is an amazing concept, but I believe it is essentially true. We make decisions, often dangerous, that we would never have considered as options normally.
Sub almost immediately restores us by what almost seems like kicken all that crap out. My thinking is more clear. I dont crave at all, and even if I have a notion to try something, I know for a fact it wont do anything. I dont have to suffer thru weeks of various degrees of wd's, extreme apathy & serious depression.
Anyway,, goodnight to all & may God keep you safe.
Harry
Lisa How can you say sub does nothing to help you get clean and sober.
Because I didn't say that. Go back and read for clarity Jeff. I said Sub is a tool. But when used alone, is nothing but a crutch or replacement for opiates. I don't think I need to explain it again.
Stop jumping to conclusions when you aren't even reading what people write.
Because I didn't say that. Go back and read for clarity Jeff. I said Sub is a tool. But when used alone, is nothing but a crutch or replacement for opiates. I don't think I need to explain it again.
Stop jumping to conclusions when you aren't even reading what people write.