jusy wondering what the symptoms are off subbies my bf says its only them he as been taking but i think it could be gear please help
thanks xx
Subbies keep you pretty normal. They don't have much in the way of side-effects. If he is up and down a lot, gouching out, then clucking a few hours later, his pupils are pinned, then wide later, then he maybe using heroin. But other drugs, like benzos can make you like that as well. Sounds like you don't trust him. Probably with good reason. Hate to say it, but you need to stop worrying about whether or not he's using/lying to you etc, coz it won't make any difference to him. I pity anyone in love with a junkie, coz you're not gonna have a happy relationship. But I also know I can say that to you till I'm blue in the face, you won't listen either. Human nature is b****. Lovers think they can help us, but they can't, and no amount of telling them that makes any difference. And we are happy not to rob them of their illusions, coz the more deluded they are, the longer they'll stick around, and the more we can screw them and use them. I guess you'll have to find out the hard way, same as everyone else. He may tell you he loves you, and he probably does. But he loves heroin a lot more. I've been clean 2 years, and I'm still holding a candle for that drug. Never felt that way about a man. He'll remember that drug when he's forgotten your name sweetheart. I can hear you saying "but this relationship is different". Ha! I said that too, but it wasn't. But hey-ho, no point in wasting my breath, coz you won't be listening. Love is blind. But I'm not.
best wishes
Diff xxx
best wishes
Diff xxx
This may seem like naive rubbish but I've found that not trying to tell my boyfriend what he should and shouldn't do has helped. I never tell him he should quit. Cos my opinion won't make any difference to him anyway. I never really react too much to anything. When he has a failed attempt to get off and back on his subbies, he gets "we just gotta figure out what you're gonna do different next time". When he's wallowing in self-pity, he gets a hug and some boosting talk.
I'm not saying this is the right way to deal with things, heck I have no idea, this is all new to me! But I do know that I respect him hugely as a person.
Result? He tells me. He tells me when he's f***ed up. When he's using. I may not like it, but I'd sure as hell rather know about it. I think he trusts me. I talk bout his dosage of subutex with him and he answers my questions when I wanna know stuff, and I pass on information I gain from the people on here who are so very much wiser than I am.
He says he'd be in a much worse place without me. I hope that doesn't mean (as one friend thinks) that my friendship is stopping him from hitting rock bottom and therefore pulling himself back up. I guess time will tell.
I'm not saying this is the right way to deal with things, heck I have no idea, this is all new to me! But I do know that I respect him hugely as a person.
Result? He tells me. He tells me when he's f***ed up. When he's using. I may not like it, but I'd sure as hell rather know about it. I think he trusts me. I talk bout his dosage of subutex with him and he answers my questions when I wanna know stuff, and I pass on information I gain from the people on here who are so very much wiser than I am.
He says he'd be in a much worse place without me. I hope that doesn't mean (as one friend thinks) that my friendship is stopping him from hitting rock bottom and therefore pulling himself back up. I guess time will tell.
Believer, I'm just an old cynic, but I reckon your mate is right. You're making it easy for him to carry on using. But there's only two ways to deal with being in a relationship with an addict. Either you learn to live with it and stop believing that one day he'll sort his s*** out, or you leave. Yes, you are naieve, and that's a beautiful thing. But you are an enabler, and whether you can see it or not, you are an obstacle in the path of his recovery. I can only say this, coz I'm coming at things from the point of view of a recovering addict. I could only get clean when there was nothing in between me and my demons, no place to hide. Just me and me alone, in a flat, with nothing to cushion the blows. Yes, I had professional help. but that comes without any emotional strings.
You're a nice person. I hope your path to enlightenment is swift.
best wishes
diff x
You're a nice person. I hope your path to enlightenment is swift.
best wishes
diff x
I agree that I have been enabling, but through this site I came to realise that and have changed my boundaries. Hell I was lending him money to score! I don't do that anymore! I have also come to the realisation that if this attempt fails next week, he clearly needs to go lower before he'll come back up. He really wants off and believes he can do it. I hope he can. If I have to stand back for that to happen then that's what I'll do. Jesus there'll be some ugly posts from me during that time if it has to happen!
I hear what you're saying and will probably look back on this at some point and see you're right! But at the moment, I feel as though I have stopped enabling, unless just not nagging someone is enabling? I just don't see the point in nagging him about it. It's his fight not mine. I can't force him to stop using. Does knowing that I love him anyway make him less likely to stop? Maybe. I really don't know the answer to that question.
I look forward to knowing that the ambulance screaming past isnt for him.
Maddy x
I hear what you're saying and will probably look back on this at some point and see you're right! But at the moment, I feel as though I have stopped enabling, unless just not nagging someone is enabling? I just don't see the point in nagging him about it. It's his fight not mine. I can't force him to stop using. Does knowing that I love him anyway make him less likely to stop? Maybe. I really don't know the answer to that question.
I look forward to knowing that the ambulance screaming past isnt for him.
Maddy x
this is emz ; i know what your saying diff i have been with him since the age off 13 and im now 24 he is now 26 and ive heard every bulls***tin lie that you can think off and now ive decided to leave , i'll be back in touch fingers crossed for me cause this is really hard (ps he went on the gear when he was 17 ive got more to say but havin s*** off next door neighbour gotta go xxxxxxx
Good luck emz, wishing you all the happiness you deserve x x
hello im back to explain a little more he as been in and out of prison for the last 6 years for burglary the reason i have waited is cause it was easier to believe that he would change than to face the truth that he will never change , but as you prob already know is when he is clean in prison i think he does want to change but when he gets out he stays clean for 2 weeks top then i notice that look he gets when he is wrecked he denies it but hey it's like i never seen him high before lol i know the way it works. the prob is i wish he would just leave me alone his excuse to keep coming back is "The kids" it's not fair that they see him when he is like this but he dont care, our eldest daughter is 7 years old and she said to me "Mum dad is high again is'nt he " she should not have that kind of worry on her back she should have no worry's at her age .
ok so maybe one day he might want to change thats his choice only his but at the time being he can not drag me down to his level im already feeling low cause the next door neighbour called me a" junkie" and said he was reporting me to the council for loud music im alrerady in rent arrears so they can kick my arse out as fast as they please im sooooo f***ed up today i do get these kinda days but it dont help when he comes here rubbing it in my face that he can do as he wants an still comes back here not listening to me as usual he does believe he can have the best of both worlds but he can not i told him it was me and the kids or H an as you all know he chose H .
well i've had my moan for this morning so im off now till later lol thanks for listening all xxxx
ok so maybe one day he might want to change thats his choice only his but at the time being he can not drag me down to his level im already feeling low cause the next door neighbour called me a" junkie" and said he was reporting me to the council for loud music im alrerady in rent arrears so they can kick my arse out as fast as they please im sooooo f***ed up today i do get these kinda days but it dont help when he comes here rubbing it in my face that he can do as he wants an still comes back here not listening to me as usual he does believe he can have the best of both worlds but he can not i told him it was me and the kids or H an as you all know he chose H .
well i've had my moan for this morning so im off now till later lol thanks for listening all xxxx
Emz,
I went through the same as you and you the best thing to do is to exclude yourself. If he is he is and if he aint he aint. I even tried to watch Kevin taking his tablets but it messes with ya head wondering whether he took them properly or even took them at all!!
I have moved on from giving a sh*t. Well I do care but I got more things to worry about other than him. Its his life he is fu*king up. As long as I know that I can do what I want to do without him affecting me or my daughter then so be it. The amount of times he has pretended to take his subby then sneaked off, and also still using when on subbies..it doesnt even work but even for the taste he would try it!!
Crazy xxx
I went through the same as you and you the best thing to do is to exclude yourself. If he is he is and if he aint he aint. I even tried to watch Kevin taking his tablets but it messes with ya head wondering whether he took them properly or even took them at all!!
I have moved on from giving a sh*t. Well I do care but I got more things to worry about other than him. Its his life he is fu*king up. As long as I know that I can do what I want to do without him affecting me or my daughter then so be it. The amount of times he has pretended to take his subby then sneaked off, and also still using when on subbies..it doesnt even work but even for the taste he would try it!!
Crazy xxx
hi,im new to the site found it by accident.My hubby has just got a script for subitex,,,hes a h smoker.(I m not into drugs at all).
At the moment hes trying to get the correct dose,am i right to say that once its sorted he shouldnt be smoking at all???is it something that he does right away??
He works and all that ,but obviously some of the time he tells me what he thinks
I want to hear.
At the moment hes trying to get the correct dose,am i right to say that once its sorted he shouldnt be smoking at all???is it something that he does right away??
He works and all that ,but obviously some of the time he tells me what he thinks
I want to hear.
hello willy and welcome ,being on subutex is ment to stop the craving off heroin so therefore he wont need to smoke the heroin as long as he as took them properly that is putting them under the tongue to dissolve if he is to swollow them his stomach acids will destroy them and will not work
good luck
xx
good luck
xx
Hi Willy, you found the right site, you'll get answers and much support here. Welcome.
You need to speak to Herman, or Jake or The Silent Partner...they got all the answers on subbies. Maybe start a new thread asking for them or just asking for info on subutex.
My boyfriend uses subutex but the difference is he was injecting. He's just back on the subbies this week so is also still adjusting and finding the right dose. He's not using H at all though because he can't...well he could but it would be a waste of his money as he'd get nothing out of it. Pretty sure it would make him feel crappy too. It may be different if you smoke it but I doubt it.
Good luck and keep coming back and posting here Willy. We've been where you are.
Maddy x
You need to speak to Herman, or Jake or The Silent Partner...they got all the answers on subbies. Maybe start a new thread asking for them or just asking for info on subutex.
My boyfriend uses subutex but the difference is he was injecting. He's just back on the subbies this week so is also still adjusting and finding the right dose. He's not using H at all though because he can't...well he could but it would be a waste of his money as he'd get nothing out of it. Pretty sure it would make him feel crappy too. It may be different if you smoke it but I doubt it.
Good luck and keep coming back and posting here Willy. We've been where you are.
Maddy x
Just to clarify on the whole subbies thing. At doses of 12mgs or more subbies are supposedly a complete blocker. That is if you do heroin within about 36hrs of taking the subbies you won't feel a thing off the gear, plus in my experience it made me puke my arse up.
There is absolutely nothing to be gained from using heroin whilst on subbies. If after 3 or 4 days of taking subbies you are still experiencing withdrawals, you need a higher dose. I'm all for higher doses of subbies. I've noticed that in the states they tend to use lower doses. In the UK, it seems it pretty standard practice to dose much higher. My starting dose of subs was 16mgs, and that was swapping from 40mls of methadone. Strangely I've noticed that in the states they tend to go for larger doses of methadone. All this said, subbies have a "ceiling effect". That means that at the maximum dose of 32mgs there is no point in dosing higher, because it won't do anything. It won't get you high and it won't do any more to ease withdrawals. Again, in my experience, taking higher doses than 32mgs is counterproductive, coz it makes you feel pretty ill. I found the best way for me to detox was to find a dose that stopped the withdrawals, and stick on it. I stayed at the same dose for 9 months before starting to reduce, and it took me another 9 months to reduce down and come off them.
However, I was highly motivated, and rock solid in my resolve to beat my addiction. I found that I had to put all other issues in my life on the back burner, and spend some time alone. The 9 months of maintenance I used to extricate myself from the situation I was in ie. move to a new flat, ditch all my using friends, start building a new life for myself. Regarding building the new life, I made a special, almost clinical, effort to follow up any opportunities that came my way. I was acutely aware that the things that were most likely to trigger a relapse were loneliness and boredom, so I had to have a battle plan on how I was going to move on. I am a highly sociable person, and it's not that hard for me to make friends, but even so, it was really hard, and at times I felt desperately lonely. I had to force myself into new situations, and force myself to spark up conversations with people.
If you've had a long addiction, it's so tough to make new friends etc, coz you feel like an alien who's just landed from outer space. People can be very judgemental, and addicts are pre-programmed to be wary of "normal folks". But you know what? I was surprised and happy to find out that if I just gave people a chance, generally I found they were just as f***ed up in their own way, and much more fun than I had anticipated.
anyway, Ive got a hungry baby on my knee and it's hard to type with her in my arms.
best wishes
diff xxxx
There is absolutely nothing to be gained from using heroin whilst on subbies. If after 3 or 4 days of taking subbies you are still experiencing withdrawals, you need a higher dose. I'm all for higher doses of subbies. I've noticed that in the states they tend to use lower doses. In the UK, it seems it pretty standard practice to dose much higher. My starting dose of subs was 16mgs, and that was swapping from 40mls of methadone. Strangely I've noticed that in the states they tend to go for larger doses of methadone. All this said, subbies have a "ceiling effect". That means that at the maximum dose of 32mgs there is no point in dosing higher, because it won't do anything. It won't get you high and it won't do any more to ease withdrawals. Again, in my experience, taking higher doses than 32mgs is counterproductive, coz it makes you feel pretty ill. I found the best way for me to detox was to find a dose that stopped the withdrawals, and stick on it. I stayed at the same dose for 9 months before starting to reduce, and it took me another 9 months to reduce down and come off them.
However, I was highly motivated, and rock solid in my resolve to beat my addiction. I found that I had to put all other issues in my life on the back burner, and spend some time alone. The 9 months of maintenance I used to extricate myself from the situation I was in ie. move to a new flat, ditch all my using friends, start building a new life for myself. Regarding building the new life, I made a special, almost clinical, effort to follow up any opportunities that came my way. I was acutely aware that the things that were most likely to trigger a relapse were loneliness and boredom, so I had to have a battle plan on how I was going to move on. I am a highly sociable person, and it's not that hard for me to make friends, but even so, it was really hard, and at times I felt desperately lonely. I had to force myself into new situations, and force myself to spark up conversations with people.
If you've had a long addiction, it's so tough to make new friends etc, coz you feel like an alien who's just landed from outer space. People can be very judgemental, and addicts are pre-programmed to be wary of "normal folks". But you know what? I was surprised and happy to find out that if I just gave people a chance, generally I found they were just as f***ed up in their own way, and much more fun than I had anticipated.
anyway, Ive got a hungry baby on my knee and it's hard to type with her in my arms.
best wishes
diff xxxx
Thanks Diff, I knew someone with more knowledge than me would post! You sound so strong. I got so much respect for you. And yeah we non-addicts are all f***-ups in one way or another...it's just that most of us won't admit it...makes us even more f***ed up really.
believer---i hTE TO SAY IT BUT I TEND TO AGREE WITH WHAT DIFF SAYS AS FAR AS ENABLING--AS YOU MAY NOT BE GIVING HIM MONEY--DOES HE PAY BILLS AND SUCH--WELL WHATEVER YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS OR ISNT--JUST KEEP IN MIND YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN A BAD OF HEROIN SO ANYTIME YOU ARE TRETED DIFFERENT--ITS TIME TO GO TILL THAT CHANGES AND I MEAN CHANGES FOR LONGER THAN A COUPLE DAYS--I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS-I STILL LOVE MY X AND WOULD PROBABLY BE TEMPTED TO GET BACK WITH HIM WITH JUST A FEW SWEET NOTHING IN MY EAR--AWW YES WOMEN ARE ALL ABOUT OUR EMOTIONS ANYWAY--WHETHER ITS RIGHT OR NOT IT WILL TAKE TIME TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT A UCCESSFULL RELATIONSHIP OR MAKE IT SUCCESSFULLY ALONE--EITHER WAY I THINK YOU ARE EMMENSLY STRONG AND LOVING AND I THINK YOU HAVE A VERY OPEN-MINDED AN FIRM GRIP ON REALITY--YOU ARE TAKING CONSTRUCTIVE CRITSIZM VERY WELL--WE ONLY SAT THESE THINGS BECAUSE WE CARE AND WE DONT WANT TO SEE ANYONE HURT THE WAY WE HAVE ALREADY HURT OURSELVES--AL THE LUCK IN THE WORL--AND I KNOW YOU WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP US POSTED--XXXOOOO
Those posts up the top of this thread were posted a while ago...I've travelled a very long way in the few weeks I've been posting in here. I was enabling and was probably in danger of becoming co-dependent and was worried that my friendship was preventing him from hitting rock bottom and pulling himself back up, because he had three failed attempts to get back on the subbies. However, last week he succeeded...he asked for my help and I spent qutie a bit of time with him, just sitting and watching films, slept on his sofa and took trips to the shops when he wanted stuff. He's doing really well now and feels very positive. He's told me I'll never know how much he appreciates me. I don't know what the future holds for us but I do believe that being there for him has helped him through this week. We don't live together and have completely separate finances...he has to get himself out of the financial scrapes he's got himself into. He does owe me some money, but he's paying it back, bit by bit. I'm very proud of him but I think it's really important that he is proud of himself...he's an adult...I don't pity him, I love him...and he hates more than anything else to be patronised!!! I take the constructive criticism because it is just that...and it comes from people I respect who have travelled these roads before me. Like I said, I have learnt so much in such a short time and am so much happier as a result. I have well-meaning friends in real life who give me their advice and somehow I don't take it as well as I do from people in here...because you guys know. You've been here. And you don't judge.
Oh and some exciting news! I got my new house! Moving in four weeks! Better get packing!
And thank you for caring.
Maddy x x x
Oh and some exciting news! I got my new house! Moving in four weeks! Better get packing!
And thank you for caring.
Maddy x x x
