I wasn't critizing anyone. I simply shared my experience with doing things my way, such as relocating, etc.. I hope it works for him I really do. If you wanna take my experience as ctisizing thats on you. The beauty about recovery is hopefully we can learn from the mistakes of those that have been their before us.
If it works out thats great, when it doesn't, I'll be here to say welcome back, if unlike alot of us he makes it back.
This s--t is no joke, nothing changes if nothing changes, and that doesn't mean
changing locations. But, I do wish everyone all the best.
Take care...................................God bless............................................Bob
Bob,
In your experience, have alot of people who tried Suboxone gone back to the drugs when treatment is over. I'm praying they don't. I'm praying this stuff really works because I have tried everything else. I have even had my sister hold my percocets and ween me off very slowly. My dad then did the same thing for me after I went back to the drugs. I have tried cold turkey and given up several times. So I'm really counting on this being the last time. Thanks
Tracy
In your experience, have alot of people who tried Suboxone gone back to the drugs when treatment is over. I'm praying they don't. I'm praying this stuff really works because I have tried everything else. I have even had my sister hold my percocets and ween me off very slowly. My dad then did the same thing for me after I went back to the drugs. I have tried cold turkey and given up several times. So I'm really counting on this being the last time. Thanks
Tracy
Tracy,
I really hope that it works for you, I really do. Or for anyone for that matter.
But, it has been my experience that MOST not all, people I have met that tried
sub. relapsed. I personally don't know enough about it to comment, I'm just a gratefull recovering alcoholic and addict that had a moment of clarity and did what I was told works and I am still and hopefully always willing to go to any and all lengths to stay clean and sober. If someone really wants to live a life of true freedom from addiction why not do whats been proven to work if it's worked
as suggested. Also I was told, the withdraw symptoms might be easier to get through with sub. but when your done with the sub. the obsessions are still their. So, all I can do is truley wish you the best of luck, I'll pray for you as I do for all of us. But I do suggest a plan, N.A., A.A. etc. what ever works for ya',
support of others and a belief in a Higher Power will be needed. Some won't agree, some are successful on there own, but not many, and it isn't just about
not picking up, it's about living life clean and also being happy.
I've rambled enough..lol
Take care......................................God bless.....................................Bob
I really hope that it works for you, I really do. Or for anyone for that matter.
But, it has been my experience that MOST not all, people I have met that tried
sub. relapsed. I personally don't know enough about it to comment, I'm just a gratefull recovering alcoholic and addict that had a moment of clarity and did what I was told works and I am still and hopefully always willing to go to any and all lengths to stay clean and sober. If someone really wants to live a life of true freedom from addiction why not do whats been proven to work if it's worked
as suggested. Also I was told, the withdraw symptoms might be easier to get through with sub. but when your done with the sub. the obsessions are still their. So, all I can do is truley wish you the best of luck, I'll pray for you as I do for all of us. But I do suggest a plan, N.A., A.A. etc. what ever works for ya',
support of others and a belief in a Higher Power will be needed. Some won't agree, some are successful on there own, but not many, and it isn't just about
not picking up, it's about living life clean and also being happy.
I've rambled enough..lol
Take care......................................God bless.....................................Bob
I shared this once before, but I think it needs repeating, to anyone who is really listening:
I was addicted to heroin, but I got clean
But I started pills
Then I wanted to get off pills
so I started drinking
Then I wanted to stop drinking so I did, but I took more pills
Then I wanted to get off pills, so
I started crack
Then I wanted to get off crack
so I took even more pills
Then I wanted to finally get off of pills
so I started drinking again
Then I was drunk everyday, so I stopped, and started taking more pills.
Then I finally wanted to get off of pills, so I took ??????
For me, and for a lot of us, stopping means stopping, not substituting one substance for another. I'm not a doctor, nurse, or health care professional. But I am an expert on addiction. Substituting "legal" drugs for other drugs is just that, substituting one drug for another.
I was addicted to heroin, but I got clean
But I started pills
Then I wanted to get off pills
so I started drinking
Then I wanted to stop drinking so I did, but I took more pills
Then I wanted to get off pills, so
I started crack
Then I wanted to get off crack
so I took even more pills
Then I wanted to finally get off of pills
so I started drinking again
Then I was drunk everyday, so I stopped, and started taking more pills.
Then I finally wanted to get off of pills, so I took ??????
For me, and for a lot of us, stopping means stopping, not substituting one substance for another. I'm not a doctor, nurse, or health care professional. But I am an expert on addiction. Substituting "legal" drugs for other drugs is just that, substituting one drug for another.
Bob if this board drives you crazy then why keep returning? I suggest you do some research on Suboxone/Subutex before you chime in. It is suggested that you enter into a recovery program when you use Subs. It simply takes the cravings and the withdrawal away. It is becoming absolutely more mainstream in detoxing people. All of the Dr.'s who prescribe this drug must be certified in addiction before rxing it. My friend is in NA, he is an M.D., he does prescribe it. He has been clean and sober many years and I know three people who detoxed with it and were much more comfortable, as they could not handle the withdrawal. He absolutely suggests a program of recovery. NA/AA is a program of attraction. I am in AA, I believe in NA/AA as the program that works for me. If something else works for someone else, "my hat is off to him," as it says in the Big Book. Let's not pick fights, again.
Rachel
Rachel
Bob:
Whoa. I am sorry for lashing out at you. I just got all high and mighty there and I apologize for getting on a soapbox.
Rach
Whoa. I am sorry for lashing out at you. I just got all high and mighty there and I apologize for getting on a soapbox.
Rach
Rachel,
It's all good! *wink*
Take care......................................God bless........................................Bob
It's all good! *wink*
Take care......................................God bless........................................Bob
I hope I am not goign to step on anyone's toes with this post, and I know I can choose to read what I want--but being new to all this, and taking the first steps to try and stop what has been a bad 5 years--I using the post I read to help--I feel like I have to.
I never heard of the drug you are all talking about, but I do know that had I known about it, I am not sure I would be here today. For me I had to just stop, I dont want to start another cycle of using something to make me feel better about something that took 5 years away from my life. I wont read this thread after this post, because what I am taking away from this subject is that I dont need to feel the way I did, and because of that I might think it is ok to use, and use this " SUB " as a crutch---I am better going cold turkey......
Again, I hope I did not offend,but for someone that is new and really trying hard to stay clean, what I am reading scares me.
Stay Well Everyone
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24 replies since September 28, 2004, 1:25 PM Track this topic | Email this topic | Prin
I never heard of the drug you are all talking about, but I do know that had I known about it, I am not sure I would be here today. For me I had to just stop, I dont want to start another cycle of using something to make me feel better about something that took 5 years away from my life. I wont read this thread after this post, because what I am taking away from this subject is that I dont need to feel the way I did, and because of that I might think it is ok to use, and use this " SUB " as a crutch---I am better going cold turkey......
Again, I hope I did not offend,but for someone that is new and really trying hard to stay clean, what I am reading scares me.
Stay Well Everyone
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24 replies since September 28, 2004, 1:25 PM Track this topic | Email this topic | Prin
Does anyone remember (you have to be old like me) when methadone came out? It was supposed to be a cure for heroin addiction. Now methadone is an expensive street drug, that many people are paying top dollar for.
I don't know anything about sub., but I believe that getting clean from drugs means just that, getting totally clean. I'm sure that soon sub. will be sold on the streets for top dollar (if its not already). I'm not against anyone trying to eliminate the very difficult sickness that comes with withdrawal. What I was trying to say is that we, as addicts, tend to take another pill just to help us get through the addiction of the first pill. Speaking for myself, if I took sub., I know that I would live in fear of the day that I stopped taking that!
The addictive personality has to be addressed. I'm only saying that as an observer of all the posts from people who are trying to find sub. from a doctor, To me it looks like there's alot of interest in another drug, sub., rather than on how to get through our daily life without substance.
I'm sure that many of you want to say, "she doesn't know what we are going through".
Yes I do. I went through H*** getting off of heroin, and H*** getting off of pills. For me, taking another pill to help me get off drugs, is just starting another habit.
I don't know anything about sub., but I believe that getting clean from drugs means just that, getting totally clean. I'm sure that soon sub. will be sold on the streets for top dollar (if its not already). I'm not against anyone trying to eliminate the very difficult sickness that comes with withdrawal. What I was trying to say is that we, as addicts, tend to take another pill just to help us get through the addiction of the first pill. Speaking for myself, if I took sub., I know that I would live in fear of the day that I stopped taking that!
The addictive personality has to be addressed. I'm only saying that as an observer of all the posts from people who are trying to find sub. from a doctor, To me it looks like there's alot of interest in another drug, sub., rather than on how to get through our daily life without substance.
I'm sure that many of you want to say, "she doesn't know what we are going through".
Yes I do. I went through H*** getting off of heroin, and H*** getting off of pills. For me, taking another pill to help me get off drugs, is just starting another habit.
Hi,
When I got clean and sober, I knew it was gonna be hell. My father has alot of years sober so I knew about detox, rehab, withdraw etc.. So, I figured a few days or weeks of feeling like hell in trade for the rest of my life free from active addiction was well worth it. I saw and still see what my father, and his friends in recovery do to stay sober and or clean so, just for me, I choose to do what I can see with my own eyes works.
Hopefully, I can share what I've done, and do, and maybe it'll help someone.
If not, sharing with you folks about me, keeps me clean and sober.
So I'll take this moment to say thankyou, and to all that are struggling still,
I thankyou too for your posts, it's a constant reminder of how I never want to feel again.
Take care.................................God bless..........................................Bob
When I got clean and sober, I knew it was gonna be hell. My father has alot of years sober so I knew about detox, rehab, withdraw etc.. So, I figured a few days or weeks of feeling like hell in trade for the rest of my life free from active addiction was well worth it. I saw and still see what my father, and his friends in recovery do to stay sober and or clean so, just for me, I choose to do what I can see with my own eyes works.
Hopefully, I can share what I've done, and do, and maybe it'll help someone.
If not, sharing with you folks about me, keeps me clean and sober.
So I'll take this moment to say thankyou, and to all that are struggling still,
I thankyou too for your posts, it's a constant reminder of how I never want to feel again.
Take care.................................God bless..........................................Bob
Hi Bob,
Thank you for your posts. For those of us who want to hear the truth, without our shades on, your posts are refreshing.
I usually keep my mouth shut. But I've noticed lately that when I log on and read the posts, there is a common theme to many who write in: where do I get this or that, another drug to help me not notice that I'm withdrawing. This bothers me, as I thought this was a website for those of us who want to STOP taking drugs.
We want to stop the cravings, stomach aches, leg cramps, nervousness, etc.
But another drug is not the answer.
I realize that this is not what many want to hear. But a few days of discomfort will end.
I, personally, do not want to know about another drug that I can get from my doctor to remove all the withdrawal symptoms. With my addictive mind, the next thing I might do is call my doctor to get that! I want to STAY AWAY FROM ALL PILLS, AND ALL OF THEIR LITTLE COUSINS!
I won't butt in anymore. I was just concerned as another pill has become popular on this website, and I wanted to stay away from all pills.
Susan
Thank you for your posts. For those of us who want to hear the truth, without our shades on, your posts are refreshing.
I usually keep my mouth shut. But I've noticed lately that when I log on and read the posts, there is a common theme to many who write in: where do I get this or that, another drug to help me not notice that I'm withdrawing. This bothers me, as I thought this was a website for those of us who want to STOP taking drugs.
We want to stop the cravings, stomach aches, leg cramps, nervousness, etc.
But another drug is not the answer.
I realize that this is not what many want to hear. But a few days of discomfort will end.
I, personally, do not want to know about another drug that I can get from my doctor to remove all the withdrawal symptoms. With my addictive mind, the next thing I might do is call my doctor to get that! I want to STAY AWAY FROM ALL PILLS, AND ALL OF THEIR LITTLE COUSINS!
I won't butt in anymore. I was just concerned as another pill has become popular on this website, and I wanted to stay away from all pills.
Susan
Glad,
how are you going to get your subs down there? if they don't have a drug problem, there won't be subs, right? you still will have withdrawls from the subs once you quit. just be careful. good luck to you.
raerae
how are you going to get your subs down there? if they don't have a drug problem, there won't be subs, right? you still will have withdrawls from the subs once you quit. just be careful. good luck to you.
raerae
Whoa, I don't understand why this thread became so ugly so fast?? I guess its because there are alot of people that are very passionate about this subject. It all started with a post from a person who took a step to get off of drugs. And instead of being encouraging there is alot of bashing. I don't get it. I understand that everyone has very strong feelings about what they did or didn't do to "kick" their habit(s), but why not be supportive? When I first found this site I was very depressed, ready to give up because I have let percocet control my life for at least the last 6-7 years. I tried every possible way to get off and could not. Honestly, I had called several inpatient and outpatient facilities to research what my options are and at most places I was told that they use this drug called Suboxone to help detox their patients. So I decided to get the opinions of others from this site and I read alot of positive information. If this is just the "next big thing" drug, why would the rehab facilities be using it along with their 12-step programs? I would not have even considered Methodone because of its potential for getting you high. Suboxone does not "make you high". But it does help you from getting the tremendously bad w/d symptoms. This is the first time in almost 7 yrs that I have gone almost a full week without at least one percocet. I was proud of that until I started reading these negative posts. I haven't felt like taking a pill until NOW!!! I am not trying to be rude, but I have a suggestion for those of you who think we "have our shades on", why not find out a little more info about the drug first. Contact your rehab facilities or drs. in your area. I personally would appreciate hearing what they say about it because all of the ones in my area stated that they use it for their patients. Perhaps they are wrong? Finally, I want to say that I think it is wonderful for those of you that have gotten off of drugs cold turkey, but I could not do it. Please try to be a little more understanding of those of us that are clean but couldn't do it "your way".
Tracy
Tracy
Tracy:
Thanks for the post. I always try to keep an open mind. I am in the medical industry and must stay educated on all forms of disease states and meds. There is not a lot of education about Subutex and I think people do not understand that you cannot get high any way shape or form. It simply stops withdrawals. It is used in detox. Stay positive, stay clean.
Rach
Thanks for the post. I always try to keep an open mind. I am in the medical industry and must stay educated on all forms of disease states and meds. There is not a lot of education about Subutex and I think people do not understand that you cannot get high any way shape or form. It simply stops withdrawals. It is used in detox. Stay positive, stay clean.
Rach
Tracy stay positive please,dont think about using again please,its working for you and if anyone wants information about it and how its working for you,please tell them so they can make their own mind up about it,Ive just kicked a habit of over 4 yrs,where I was turning morphine pills into heroin and injecting myself,for the first 3 days I used a small amount of methadone to get me through the worst of the withdrawels and Im really glad I did,over the last 4 years Ive gone cold turkey 4 times and each time it was the pits,this time as I said I used a small amount of street methadone to get me through the first few days and Im so glad I did,putting yourself through that awful suffering of the first few days is crazy if you dont have too,Ive done it 4 times before and I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.
Once you have experianced cold turkey once you would think it would be enough to keep you away from using forever,but obviously it didnt for me,each time you put yourself through a straight cold turkey I believe it does more damage,it takes a lot out of you and if you can get some help,I believe go for it,I used to think I was a hero for being able to go cold turkey,but in the end I realised it was hurting me badly.
Once you have experianced cold turkey once you would think it would be enough to keep you away from using forever,but obviously it didnt for me,each time you put yourself through a straight cold turkey I believe it does more damage,it takes a lot out of you and if you can get some help,I believe go for it,I used to think I was a hero for being able to go cold turkey,but in the end I realised it was hurting me badly.
Hi Gladiator
You mentioned being sick after taking Sub on an empty stomach. I am wonderering whether you spit or swallow. I was often watched when I took my Sub by a nurse. He always advised spitting it out once fullly disolved under the tongue (5 to 10 minutes). He and the Dr explained the buprenorphine, the active in Sub, Cannot be absorbed by the stomach. However me thinking like an addict I used to swallow...just in case I could squeeze a bit more out of it. That often made me feel sick.
Paul
You mentioned being sick after taking Sub on an empty stomach. I am wonderering whether you spit or swallow. I was often watched when I took my Sub by a nurse. He always advised spitting it out once fullly disolved under the tongue (5 to 10 minutes). He and the Dr explained the buprenorphine, the active in Sub, Cannot be absorbed by the stomach. However me thinking like an addict I used to swallow...just in case I could squeeze a bit more out of it. That often made me feel sick.
Paul
Way to go Gladiator, it is awesome to hear how determined you are with your recovery plan. sub and costa rica are two things you have to help you with this struggle and I believe you want it enough to make it happen. am really happy for you!
Hugs
Charmed
Hugs
Charmed
to all.
my two cents... the problem with sub on a treatment level... is that it works on the chemical cravings... it does nothing for the emotional cravings we all get when life happens... there is a physchological reason we all choose to get high and escape... most of us anyway... we want to feel good or be numb or be happy or relaxed or this or that... the sub or what ever the magic bullet may be at the momment may prevent the feeling but our minds eventually will want it anyway... this is a psychological craving... no drug will take this away..only a tools of learning to deal with it when it comes.. like a HP, contact with other addicts, limits access to your drugs... ect... this is the most important part of detox/rehab.... getting clean physically is the easy part... you can be blind to this fact til the cows come home or your drug takes all you have plus your soul and then your life or..... you can listen to those of us that know...
Bob, man i share your frustration you know this and as far as getting soooo frustrated that I dont post my experience, strength and hope anymore.. that will only happen when it becomes detremental to MY recovery.... I have said it before.. I only want those seeking recovery to know the shortest distance between too points.. and not make the same mistakes I and others like me made... do you think I listened the first time... ?... no ... I had to learn the hard way.... some others I got close to did too unfortunately some didnt live to tell the tale.... this is life or death.... as Bob said there is no easier softer way...
Susan you are soooo right about the new cures and all.... please keep posting... some of us feel all alone on here....
and this has been a great thread for the most part... people coming on strong and correcting it and not getting angered... maturity in its greatest form... progress.... wippee...
as far as the doc's needed to be addiction certified or otherwise trained... so do the doc that prescribed narcotics they have to take at least two required class on addiction before they get there degree and they have to take continuing education classes (at least in my state) to keep it... well look what there education got me.... they are the ones that gave me mountains of pills in the first place.... sooooo getting sub from a qualified physician guaruntees nothing...I am an addict and I would have probably found away to try to abuse that too....
lastly.... what ever way works... if you must try the easiest way possible then go ahead... I just hope you find your way back... and you can try again... I only know what works for me... and millions of others... just white knuckling it through life is just not living for me... hoping I wont get a craving today or having to take yet another pill just so I dont.... being chained to a pill for the rest of my life... no thank you...
good luck ot all... and God Bless....
(this message not intended to start a flame war... it is out of love and said with the utmost respect to all readers...please no mean or hateful posts.. this only turns people honestly looking for recovery away.. everyones opinions is welcome but to be shared maturely...)
my two cents...
Teresa
my two cents... the problem with sub on a treatment level... is that it works on the chemical cravings... it does nothing for the emotional cravings we all get when life happens... there is a physchological reason we all choose to get high and escape... most of us anyway... we want to feel good or be numb or be happy or relaxed or this or that... the sub or what ever the magic bullet may be at the momment may prevent the feeling but our minds eventually will want it anyway... this is a psychological craving... no drug will take this away..only a tools of learning to deal with it when it comes.. like a HP, contact with other addicts, limits access to your drugs... ect... this is the most important part of detox/rehab.... getting clean physically is the easy part... you can be blind to this fact til the cows come home or your drug takes all you have plus your soul and then your life or..... you can listen to those of us that know...
Bob, man i share your frustration you know this and as far as getting soooo frustrated that I dont post my experience, strength and hope anymore.. that will only happen when it becomes detremental to MY recovery.... I have said it before.. I only want those seeking recovery to know the shortest distance between too points.. and not make the same mistakes I and others like me made... do you think I listened the first time... ?... no ... I had to learn the hard way.... some others I got close to did too unfortunately some didnt live to tell the tale.... this is life or death.... as Bob said there is no easier softer way...
Susan you are soooo right about the new cures and all.... please keep posting... some of us feel all alone on here....
and this has been a great thread for the most part... people coming on strong and correcting it and not getting angered... maturity in its greatest form... progress.... wippee...
as far as the doc's needed to be addiction certified or otherwise trained... so do the doc that prescribed narcotics they have to take at least two required class on addiction before they get there degree and they have to take continuing education classes (at least in my state) to keep it... well look what there education got me.... they are the ones that gave me mountains of pills in the first place.... sooooo getting sub from a qualified physician guaruntees nothing...I am an addict and I would have probably found away to try to abuse that too....
lastly.... what ever way works... if you must try the easiest way possible then go ahead... I just hope you find your way back... and you can try again... I only know what works for me... and millions of others... just white knuckling it through life is just not living for me... hoping I wont get a craving today or having to take yet another pill just so I dont.... being chained to a pill for the rest of my life... no thank you...
good luck ot all... and God Bless....
(this message not intended to start a flame war... it is out of love and said with the utmost respect to all readers...please no mean or hateful posts.. this only turns people honestly looking for recovery away.. everyones opinions is welcome but to be shared maturely...)
my two cents...
Teresa
Around here (major metro area on East Coast), Subutex is being recommended increasingly by docs as part of in- and outpatient rehab programs. My understanding is that there are short and long term courses of treatment on Sub, but none contemplate taking it forver.
I have a friend who has been taking Sub for the past 7 months, as part of an outpatient treatment plan from one of the most respected facilities in the area. She had relapsed on pills several times before. She has found it very helpful, in conjunction with other aspects of her outpatient treatment program -- which includes regular attendance at AA/NA meetings, aftercare groups, etc. She is now having trouble tapering off the sub, however. When she gets down below a certain level, her anxiety and depression seem to increase significantly.
That's my only personal experience to share, and it is second-hand. I don't think either AA or NA would express an opinion on sub as a treatment method because it would be considered an "outside issue" (Tradition 10). Personally, I kind of worry that its availability may tempt those who are clean to use again because it seems to make withdrawal so painless. However, that's not a problem with the drug, but rather the addict's brain, I guess. Peace, M.
I have a friend who has been taking Sub for the past 7 months, as part of an outpatient treatment plan from one of the most respected facilities in the area. She had relapsed on pills several times before. She has found it very helpful, in conjunction with other aspects of her outpatient treatment program -- which includes regular attendance at AA/NA meetings, aftercare groups, etc. She is now having trouble tapering off the sub, however. When she gets down below a certain level, her anxiety and depression seem to increase significantly.
That's my only personal experience to share, and it is second-hand. I don't think either AA or NA would express an opinion on sub as a treatment method because it would be considered an "outside issue" (Tradition 10). Personally, I kind of worry that its availability may tempt those who are clean to use again because it seems to make withdrawal so painless. However, that's not a problem with the drug, but rather the addict's brain, I guess. Peace, M.
Hi
You know.....its all comes back to if it works for you then keep on. I am from UK and know many that have had great success with Sub. It is never prescribed here, as far as I know, without the client getting some other support. The danger of telling someone it may not work is that it becomes like self fulfilling prophecy. I also know of many that have tried AA/NA and have hated it and not been able to make it work for them. I will not churn out any statistics because I know most hate that and it causes defensiveness. I also know people who have left AA only to be told they will pick up again and there is no living without AA for the addict, this made the leaver almost become fatalistic, I spoke to one guy that said he could not stand AA he new he was disease so said I have no hope and picked up. There is the Danger. I would not however tell them it might not work for fear of them abandoning it early. Believe me please this is not an attack on 12 step again just trying to balance the views. I have known people who have ben sober 20 years just doing there own thing, I have known people 20 years sober using 12 steps, I have also know people 20 years sober by having an encounter with the Lord Jesus.
Sub can enable a person to gain control of life..put a brake on the madness of pill seeking. It also in my experience never made me high, in the euphoric sense, but stopped the cravings and allowed the brain to adjust to not being opiate soaked.
The brain chemistry, as most of us know alters in addiction Sub helps some in realigning this problem but is useless without lifestyle change. It is not magic. Some like myself also have underlying pain problems that need to be adjusted to also. Sub is a great pain reliever so rather than go cold turkey Sub helped me adjust slowly to the emergence of chronic pain. When I say slowly I must say that I was only on sub for a month.
Hope that makes sense
In a big rush as usual ;-)
Paul
You know.....its all comes back to if it works for you then keep on. I am from UK and know many that have had great success with Sub. It is never prescribed here, as far as I know, without the client getting some other support. The danger of telling someone it may not work is that it becomes like self fulfilling prophecy. I also know of many that have tried AA/NA and have hated it and not been able to make it work for them. I will not churn out any statistics because I know most hate that and it causes defensiveness. I also know people who have left AA only to be told they will pick up again and there is no living without AA for the addict, this made the leaver almost become fatalistic, I spoke to one guy that said he could not stand AA he new he was disease so said I have no hope and picked up. There is the Danger. I would not however tell them it might not work for fear of them abandoning it early. Believe me please this is not an attack on 12 step again just trying to balance the views. I have known people who have ben sober 20 years just doing there own thing, I have known people 20 years sober using 12 steps, I have also know people 20 years sober by having an encounter with the Lord Jesus.
Sub can enable a person to gain control of life..put a brake on the madness of pill seeking. It also in my experience never made me high, in the euphoric sense, but stopped the cravings and allowed the brain to adjust to not being opiate soaked.
The brain chemistry, as most of us know alters in addiction Sub helps some in realigning this problem but is useless without lifestyle change. It is not magic. Some like myself also have underlying pain problems that need to be adjusted to also. Sub is a great pain reliever so rather than go cold turkey Sub helped me adjust slowly to the emergence of chronic pain. When I say slowly I must say that I was only on sub for a month.
Hope that makes sense
In a big rush as usual ;-)
Paul
