Hi, I was just wondering if you can still work the 12 steps even if you don't believe in God, and I mean strongly not believing or would they turn you away?
I'm considering AA as it seems to be a lot more supportive than what I'm doing now with my alcohol counsellor and as she's moving away I have to go through the whole process of getting someone new and only seeing them once a month.
I just don't believe in God or a higher power, and that seems integral to the 12 steps from what I have read on the AA website.
Any info is appreciated!
Thanks,
Izzy
The beauty of AA is everybodies beliefs are accomodated. You don't have to believe in a religious god at all. A higher power will become obvious to you over time. There can be no denying that a life force is at work within us, or we wouldn't be alive! Life force animates and makes things work and I think that is the most obvious way of seeing a higher power at work. I prefer to call it a greater intelligence, because it is an intelligence that is far greater than me, my ego, little me that thinks the world revolves around it, when actually it doesn't. I am a small part of the great 'whole' of existence.
Good luck with AA, I am sure you will benefit from it greatly. I don't actually go, but I read the literature and believe in what it says. I think AA is a great resource for alot of people and I would recommend it, as I am to you.
Good luck with AA, I am sure you will benefit from it greatly. I don't actually go, but I read the literature and believe in what it says. I think AA is a great resource for alot of people and I would recommend it, as I am to you.
Izzy,
Great question and the good news is that, no, you do not have to believe in a God, Jesus, Buddha, dogma, scriptures...none of it. Just have to believe in a power greater than yourself....for example, a hurricane is a power greater than yourself or even rain...there is a scientific reason for why it is raining. As much as a person wants it to rain, it just doesn't rain no matter how much one hopes, if the atmospheric patterns aren't accommodating for rain. Have I made sense or confused you more? ;)
Is there a way you can get a Big Book of AA? There is a chapter that deals precisely with what you are asking, "we the agnostics".
Hugs.
Great question and the good news is that, no, you do not have to believe in a God, Jesus, Buddha, dogma, scriptures...none of it. Just have to believe in a power greater than yourself....for example, a hurricane is a power greater than yourself or even rain...there is a scientific reason for why it is raining. As much as a person wants it to rain, it just doesn't rain no matter how much one hopes, if the atmospheric patterns aren't accommodating for rain. Have I made sense or confused you more? ;)
Is there a way you can get a Big Book of AA? There is a chapter that deals precisely with what you are asking, "we the agnostics".
Hugs.
Hi guys, thanks for your posts. I keep meaning to buy the AA big book but I always get sidetracked, so maybe this weekend I shall order one off Amazon. I guess it would give me more of an insight into AA before I decided to go, if I decide to go. I'm terrified of people, and round here people talk, so I'm swithering over whether to even go to a local meeting... so many questions and decisions for me. Is it the right time for me? Am I truly ready to be 100% confident in my ability to abstain completely from alcohol?? Also, if I relapsed while attending AA is that grounds for them refusing you back again??
I don't think I could face a rejection just yet in my recovery from my Personality Disorder. I think I'll have to be 100% decided on what I want to do and what I want to be, obviously more than anything I want to not be ruled by alcohol, and at this time I think I am, although I don't get drunk anymore when I do drink... It's still there looming over me like a black cloud.
Any more input and advice is appreciated guys!!
Thanks again,
Izzy
BTW Zipper, I get what you are saying exactly and your little description helped me to make more sense of what a 'higher power' is. Thank you!
I don't think I could face a rejection just yet in my recovery from my Personality Disorder. I think I'll have to be 100% decided on what I want to do and what I want to be, obviously more than anything I want to not be ruled by alcohol, and at this time I think I am, although I don't get drunk anymore when I do drink... It's still there looming over me like a black cloud.
Any more input and advice is appreciated guys!!
Thanks again,
Izzy
BTW Zipper, I get what you are saying exactly and your little description helped me to make more sense of what a 'higher power' is. Thank you!
I think you will find that AA is a lot more relaxed than you fear. I have been so I am talking from experience. Part of being alcoholic is about relapsing so there's absolutley no worries on that front. It happens, we all know it, it's ok.
When I first went I was terrified, but the people there are very friendly and understanding because they know what it's like. Also alot of alcoholics have problems with relating to people, I know I do, and when you are amongst others like yourself there is a feeling of being at home, an empathy that everyone is in the same boat, has the same mindset, so therefore it is safe. You don't have to say anything at all, just sit and listen for as long as is comfortable for you.
Also Izzy, it's not very formal, so it's not like being at school and having to ask if you can go to the toilet! It's a group of free adults who can do as they please but just have the one intention in common, that of wishing to be sober.
When I first went I was terrified, but the people there are very friendly and understanding because they know what it's like. Also alot of alcoholics have problems with relating to people, I know I do, and when you are amongst others like yourself there is a feeling of being at home, an empathy that everyone is in the same boat, has the same mindset, so therefore it is safe. You don't have to say anything at all, just sit and listen for as long as is comfortable for you.
Also Izzy, it's not very formal, so it's not like being at school and having to ask if you can go to the toilet! It's a group of free adults who can do as they please but just have the one intention in common, that of wishing to be sober.
Hi Izzy,
I agree with everyone else. You will meet some people at AA who feel they owe their life, their sanity, their families and their happiness to AA and to God, so understandably some of them might want to share that news and to help you by talking about their experience and this might sometimes feel like pressure to sign up to a belief in God, but my own experience is that people don't mean to pressure you at all. What they want more than anything is to be well and to do what they can to help others be well. I feel privileged to sit beside the people I have met at AA; they are inspiring. At the end of the day Izzy, they're likely to let you be you and you don't have to worry about their beliefs or the words in the Steps about God, in my view if God didn't want us to have healthy scepticism He wouldn't have given us politicians.
As for a Higher Power, you might find it within you.....one day when I was at counselling I knew I was facing a problem I simply could not fix. It was crushing me and would destroy me. I was, to all intents and purposes, at the ending of the life I had known....as I sat there I recognised that within me there is a power far greater than my ego/conscious mind....my unconscious mind is a vast, wonderful resourse....ok, with some troubled bits lol....but the better part of me resides in the bigger me, the human organism, and not this clever little, very slow conscious mind.....I knew instinctively that here was a power greater than what I thought of at the time as myself. My ego, my conscious mind is not my Self....it's just a tiny part of who I am.....and when I listen, really listen, to my inner Self, that very centre of me, that clear, still, beautiful place, I am guided towards the light.
In the meantime, listening to people share at AA ALWAYS touched my heart and soul in some way, I learnt something, had an insight, remembered something, decided something....the group is a Higher Power too, the collective intelligence and wisdom of people who are striving to become healthy, happy human beings....there's a lot of power and love in such a group Izzy....believe in THAT Higher Power for sure.
I love the people I have met at AA....I think you'll be glad you went and I know they'll be glad to see you.
Martin
ps oh and Izzy, yes, you CAN work the steps without believing in God. There is powerful psychology within that process and if you google 12 steps and look at wikipedia you'll see the following on the page about 12 Step programs:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As summarized by the American Psychological Association, working the Twelve Steps involves the following.[1]
admitting that one cannot control one's addiction or compulsion;
recognizing a greater power that can give strength;
examining past errors with the help of a sponsor (experienced member);
making amends for these errors;
learning to live a new life with a new code of behavior;
helping others that suffer from the same addictions or compulsions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My guess is that the importance of recognising a greater power is that we have to accept - accept in our very bones - that we need HELP from outside our own thinking... addiction is a problem we cannot solve ourselves (although some do) because addiction distorts and corrupts our way of solving problems and our very way of thinking and feeling.
I agree with everyone else. You will meet some people at AA who feel they owe their life, their sanity, their families and their happiness to AA and to God, so understandably some of them might want to share that news and to help you by talking about their experience and this might sometimes feel like pressure to sign up to a belief in God, but my own experience is that people don't mean to pressure you at all. What they want more than anything is to be well and to do what they can to help others be well. I feel privileged to sit beside the people I have met at AA; they are inspiring. At the end of the day Izzy, they're likely to let you be you and you don't have to worry about their beliefs or the words in the Steps about God, in my view if God didn't want us to have healthy scepticism He wouldn't have given us politicians.
As for a Higher Power, you might find it within you.....one day when I was at counselling I knew I was facing a problem I simply could not fix. It was crushing me and would destroy me. I was, to all intents and purposes, at the ending of the life I had known....as I sat there I recognised that within me there is a power far greater than my ego/conscious mind....my unconscious mind is a vast, wonderful resourse....ok, with some troubled bits lol....but the better part of me resides in the bigger me, the human organism, and not this clever little, very slow conscious mind.....I knew instinctively that here was a power greater than what I thought of at the time as myself. My ego, my conscious mind is not my Self....it's just a tiny part of who I am.....and when I listen, really listen, to my inner Self, that very centre of me, that clear, still, beautiful place, I am guided towards the light.
In the meantime, listening to people share at AA ALWAYS touched my heart and soul in some way, I learnt something, had an insight, remembered something, decided something....the group is a Higher Power too, the collective intelligence and wisdom of people who are striving to become healthy, happy human beings....there's a lot of power and love in such a group Izzy....believe in THAT Higher Power for sure.
I love the people I have met at AA....I think you'll be glad you went and I know they'll be glad to see you.
Martin
ps oh and Izzy, yes, you CAN work the steps without believing in God. There is powerful psychology within that process and if you google 12 steps and look at wikipedia you'll see the following on the page about 12 Step programs:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As summarized by the American Psychological Association, working the Twelve Steps involves the following.[1]
admitting that one cannot control one's addiction or compulsion;
recognizing a greater power that can give strength;
examining past errors with the help of a sponsor (experienced member);
making amends for these errors;
learning to live a new life with a new code of behavior;
helping others that suffer from the same addictions or compulsions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My guess is that the importance of recognising a greater power is that we have to accept - accept in our very bones - that we need HELP from outside our own thinking... addiction is a problem we cannot solve ourselves (although some do) because addiction distorts and corrupts our way of solving problems and our very way of thinking and feeling.
Izzy, glad I didn't confuse you! :)
Trust me, relapse doesn't exclude you from "membership". AA is just a group of alcoholics sharing their experience, strength, and hope. Many in the rooms have/do relapse. However, relapse isn't mandatory.
Let me tell you a bit of my story.I started drinking when I had just turned 17. The first night I made a fool of myself by making out with 3 guys (who were all friends with each other, to make it worse), I threw up, I blacked out. The next morning I awoke and couldn't wait to do it again! A normal drinker would have been terrified and humiliated, not me. The love affair with alchohol started on that spring night and still exists today, only know it lies dormant, just waiting for another opportunity to whisper sweet-nothings and tell me lies.
I have been to rehab three times, I've gotten 2 DUI's which lead to 10 days in jail. Say it aint so...the daughter of a prominent attorney had to bend over and spread my cheeks to make sure that I wasn't "holding" when I got into jail! I've tried killing myself three times...each time I was intoxicated. I've lied, stolen, cheated. I totalled a car. I totalled my spirit, so to speak. The alcohol, my lover, turned against me!!! And I STILL drank. I am now 35 years old and today I have 62 free from alcohol. I share this for one reason and one reason only: you don't have to experience what I have....relapse won't void your AA membership but do you want to take the risk? There is a part of me that wishes that my membership was voided...so much of my story (the bad parts) would have been avoided completely if only I had taken sobriety more seriously. I used what many people call, "the revolving door". My thinking, "AA will always be there, I will just go back and get another new-comer chip". I have been very blessed to have another chance at a new, sober life. Many people don't. They die. This statement isn't meant to scare you into sobriety...just stating the truth.
You implied that you want to be 100% stable regarding your personality disorder. Do you want to take the risk?
I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised by the love and support you will receive at a meeting. What is the risk of going? Give it a try and see. I wish you peace.
Trust me, relapse doesn't exclude you from "membership". AA is just a group of alcoholics sharing their experience, strength, and hope. Many in the rooms have/do relapse. However, relapse isn't mandatory.
Let me tell you a bit of my story.I started drinking when I had just turned 17. The first night I made a fool of myself by making out with 3 guys (who were all friends with each other, to make it worse), I threw up, I blacked out. The next morning I awoke and couldn't wait to do it again! A normal drinker would have been terrified and humiliated, not me. The love affair with alchohol started on that spring night and still exists today, only know it lies dormant, just waiting for another opportunity to whisper sweet-nothings and tell me lies.
I have been to rehab three times, I've gotten 2 DUI's which lead to 10 days in jail. Say it aint so...the daughter of a prominent attorney had to bend over and spread my cheeks to make sure that I wasn't "holding" when I got into jail! I've tried killing myself three times...each time I was intoxicated. I've lied, stolen, cheated. I totalled a car. I totalled my spirit, so to speak. The alcohol, my lover, turned against me!!! And I STILL drank. I am now 35 years old and today I have 62 free from alcohol. I share this for one reason and one reason only: you don't have to experience what I have....relapse won't void your AA membership but do you want to take the risk? There is a part of me that wishes that my membership was voided...so much of my story (the bad parts) would have been avoided completely if only I had taken sobriety more seriously. I used what many people call, "the revolving door". My thinking, "AA will always be there, I will just go back and get another new-comer chip". I have been very blessed to have another chance at a new, sober life. Many people don't. They die. This statement isn't meant to scare you into sobriety...just stating the truth.
You implied that you want to be 100% stable regarding your personality disorder. Do you want to take the risk?
I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised by the love and support you will receive at a meeting. What is the risk of going? Give it a try and see. I wish you peace.
HI Izzy. I am glad to hear that you are considering joining AA. Although I don't get to attend meetings (there aren't any where I live) I consider myself an AA member. I have a sponsor whom I am in contact with EVERY day and I have the Big Book. I am presently working on my 4th step. I think this is my 4 or 5th time attempting this step thankfully I have a very patient and understanding sponsor. He told me I could use anything I wanted for my higher power .I do believe in God Izzy so that made my acquiring an HP that much easier. I understand where you are coming from when you say you don't. My daughter is the same as you in regards that she doesn't believe in God or anything. I KNOW you can do the AA without believing in God because my nephew has been sober now for 6 years and he doesn't believe either. I guess if you don't believe in anything then the one thing you CAN believe in is yourself.Take something from within you and use for your HP. If you have to, let you own hands be your HP. The hands that will pull back when you reach for the bottle.The hands that will keep you from pouring that first drink. You have the ability within you to get sober and stay sober. It's going to take a lot of willpower but I know you can do it Izzy . I hope you do . I really really do. You are young and strong and you have a right to live a sober and healthy and happy life. You deserve it. Take care Izzy ..hugs ((((( )))))) GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide ( remember sometimes we make our own luck )
AA isn't a religious program, it's a spiritual program. Many who attend have had troubles in the past identifying with the gods they've been asked to blindly follow, and still others aren't willing to accept that there MAY be a Higher Power of any kind. Alcoholics Anonymous Chapter 4, We Agnostics addresses those issues to allow an individual to get sober while FINDING a Power Greater Than Themselves with which they can grow spiritually and find the power to recover from alcoholism while working The Steps.
AA exists to present a solution of hope to the alcoholic who still suffers. If they are willing to go to any lengths to recover.
The Alcoholics Anonymous Fourth Edition is available in its entirety online. I also encourage you to read Appendices II: Spiritual Experience.
AA exists to present a solution of hope to the alcoholic who still suffers. If they are willing to go to any lengths to recover.
The Alcoholics Anonymous Fourth Edition is available in its entirety online. I also encourage you to read Appendices II: Spiritual Experience.
Hey Izzy,
I just wanted to add, thinking about what you said about rejection and knowing how painful that can be to so many of us.....AA will NEVER reject you. It is built on loving acceptance of everything we are as human beings, hopeful, scared, flawed and wonderful human beings. If, one day at a meeting you think you feel a rejection of some kind from someone, please know that it is THAT one human being or THOSE few human beings at THAT meeting who are probably struggling to work their OWN programme and so are doing what I have spent too much time doing - looking at others and helping/judging OTHERS as a way of avoiding working on their own issues and flaws. People come and people go, God bless 'em, but AA will NEVER judge or reject you. It simply could not do so and still be AA.
Yours, in loving fellowship,
Martin
I just wanted to add, thinking about what you said about rejection and knowing how painful that can be to so many of us.....AA will NEVER reject you. It is built on loving acceptance of everything we are as human beings, hopeful, scared, flawed and wonderful human beings. If, one day at a meeting you think you feel a rejection of some kind from someone, please know that it is THAT one human being or THOSE few human beings at THAT meeting who are probably struggling to work their OWN programme and so are doing what I have spent too much time doing - looking at others and helping/judging OTHERS as a way of avoiding working on their own issues and flaws. People come and people go, God bless 'em, but AA will NEVER judge or reject you. It simply could not do so and still be AA.
Yours, in loving fellowship,
Martin
Izzy
the only requirement for membership in AA is "a desire to stop drinking"
that's it - there's no rules about 100%, no-one is going to drug test you, breath test you or whatever :)
and its one day at a time - so don't get yourself hung up on the idea of "I've got to quit drinking 100% forever" - you don't.
Also, you don't have to speak - go to a meeting and sit in a corner and just listen if that's all you are comfortable with. It really is OK.
You don't need a high-falutin concept of God either. Your HP can be what ever you want it to be, all a higher power means is something bigger than yourself. For instance your family. The ocean, your social network. The membership of AA can be a higher power.
For me it starts with life force, every living thing on the planet has a life force, its the electrical energy we all generate, and that energy is collective. If you can tap into it there is great power.
got to dash now
Hope you make the decision to go
Idgie.
the only requirement for membership in AA is "a desire to stop drinking"
that's it - there's no rules about 100%, no-one is going to drug test you, breath test you or whatever :)
and its one day at a time - so don't get yourself hung up on the idea of "I've got to quit drinking 100% forever" - you don't.
Also, you don't have to speak - go to a meeting and sit in a corner and just listen if that's all you are comfortable with. It really is OK.
You don't need a high-falutin concept of God either. Your HP can be what ever you want it to be, all a higher power means is something bigger than yourself. For instance your family. The ocean, your social network. The membership of AA can be a higher power.
For me it starts with life force, every living thing on the planet has a life force, its the electrical energy we all generate, and that energy is collective. If you can tap into it there is great power.
got to dash now
Hope you make the decision to go
Idgie.
Hi Izzy,
Just wanted to say I love the love that's coming your way! And I realised that even all of us cheering you on can FEEL like pressure to make a decision. But it's not....we just love you and are doing the co-dependent thing (trust me, I'm an expert!) of wanting you to have what we have....and there's no judgement in that because we've walked similar roads. Similar but of course never exactly the same.
Idgie said it beautifully. She reminded me that it's YOUR decision to make. If I have ANY awareness about my issues with alcohol (and boy parts of me are still in denial about it all) it's precisely because no-one at AA tried to push me that way, in some of them worked hard to convince me I'm NOT an alcoholic....always saying gently at the end...of course Martin, only YOU really know....for me (and I can only ever speak for me) that space, that integrity and acceptance and support is the beating heart of AA Izzy, and the programme brings the full power of that heart home to us when we're ready....but only when WE are ready....by which I mean when it's RIGHT for us....it's NOT a test, we are all exactly where we're supposed to be....that's my belief anyway....if we slip off the rails then there's a lesson in that...we're MEANT to slip...our job is just to do the best we're capable of at the time and allow life/our HP to teach us important lessons, lessons we might not LIKE, but that will help us grow....
For me I think the group became the parents I should have had, Izzy; I think at some level in that room I created the parents I needed, felt them grow in my heart and mind. I was listening and learning from a group of flawed, wonderful people (because all humans are flawed and wonderful people) from all walks of life and all ages who offered their experience, hope and strength, allowing me to gain in wisdom by listening to the better, wiser, quiet part in me TAKE WHAT I WANTED (needed!) AND LEAVE THE REST.....
Maybe Izzy, maybe, we DO get to choose the parents we always should have had....not in the body of one man or woman, but in the spirit that moves freely around the room at AA as so many good men and women reflect in wonder at themselves and this marvellous journey called living and help us learn about who we are and what life can really be.....
Take what you like Izzy, and leave the rest. This beautiful life is yours and yours and yours....
God bless,
Martin
Actually, when I posted I was going to say that the love and spirit of your animals might be your Higher Power....hey, what a wonderful lot of choices you have!
Have a great day.
Just wanted to say I love the love that's coming your way! And I realised that even all of us cheering you on can FEEL like pressure to make a decision. But it's not....we just love you and are doing the co-dependent thing (trust me, I'm an expert!) of wanting you to have what we have....and there's no judgement in that because we've walked similar roads. Similar but of course never exactly the same.
Idgie said it beautifully. She reminded me that it's YOUR decision to make. If I have ANY awareness about my issues with alcohol (and boy parts of me are still in denial about it all) it's precisely because no-one at AA tried to push me that way, in some of them worked hard to convince me I'm NOT an alcoholic....always saying gently at the end...of course Martin, only YOU really know....for me (and I can only ever speak for me) that space, that integrity and acceptance and support is the beating heart of AA Izzy, and the programme brings the full power of that heart home to us when we're ready....but only when WE are ready....by which I mean when it's RIGHT for us....it's NOT a test, we are all exactly where we're supposed to be....that's my belief anyway....if we slip off the rails then there's a lesson in that...we're MEANT to slip...our job is just to do the best we're capable of at the time and allow life/our HP to teach us important lessons, lessons we might not LIKE, but that will help us grow....
For me I think the group became the parents I should have had, Izzy; I think at some level in that room I created the parents I needed, felt them grow in my heart and mind. I was listening and learning from a group of flawed, wonderful people (because all humans are flawed and wonderful people) from all walks of life and all ages who offered their experience, hope and strength, allowing me to gain in wisdom by listening to the better, wiser, quiet part in me TAKE WHAT I WANTED (needed!) AND LEAVE THE REST.....
Maybe Izzy, maybe, we DO get to choose the parents we always should have had....not in the body of one man or woman, but in the spirit that moves freely around the room at AA as so many good men and women reflect in wonder at themselves and this marvellous journey called living and help us learn about who we are and what life can really be.....
Take what you like Izzy, and leave the rest. This beautiful life is yours and yours and yours....
God bless,
Martin
Actually, when I posted I was going to say that the love and spirit of your animals might be your Higher Power....hey, what a wonderful lot of choices you have!
Have a great day.
Gidday Izzy
Idgies first sentence said it all and the doors of AA swing both ways.
I have sat next to drunk people and people who share and then drive to the pub and of course i have witnessed miracles as some of these people get sober and also i sit near a guy who is 30 years sober at times
If you go listen for the similarities
light and love zac
Idgies first sentence said it all and the doors of AA swing both ways.
I have sat next to drunk people and people who share and then drive to the pub and of course i have witnessed miracles as some of these people get sober and also i sit near a guy who is 30 years sober at times
If you go listen for the similarities
light and love zac
Hi all, thanks for your suggestions and advice. I'm taking it all in and thinking about it all.
I've had a bad week, really depressed about stuff.
And Zipper, I wanted to let you know that your experiences are very similar to mine. I too have been strip searched by Police then left in a cell freezing my butt off. I don't want to go into the rest really but I can relate very well to you and what you posted. So thank you.
All the best,
Izzy
I've had a bad week, really depressed about stuff.
And Zipper, I wanted to let you know that your experiences are very similar to mine. I too have been strip searched by Police then left in a cell freezing my butt off. I don't want to go into the rest really but I can relate very well to you and what you posted. So thank you.
All the best,
Izzy
Sorry to hear you've had a bad time Izzy, I hope things improve really quickly for you. You know you can share if you want.
Take good care of yourself.
Martin.
Take good care of yourself.
Martin.
Izzy, you are very welcome. Sorry you had a bad week. Hope things start improving. Hugs.
Izzy, I know your question was answered here already. I just wanted to say I'm glad you are considering attending an AA meeting. It is the only way I've been able to stop drinking one day at a time. Hope you are feeling better. Geri
izzy i very seldom come on this site as i tend to stick to the heroin 1 coz that is my main problem.i started going to n/a,i went once when i was using and babbled on a lot of s***e but i left there that night saying im going to get clean and go back there.im like u in the fact im not a believer,s*** the gods r all at war with each other to c who is the higher power,i suggest u go to the meetings with an open mind and take from it whatYOU want.the thing i liked about it was the fact that where as u,ve mentioned a counsellor is involved u have to wait however long for a pat on the back if u r doing well where at a/a u will get the pat on the back 7days a week if u want,i enjoyed it and am going back,i left the meetings feeling high as a kite.u wont relate to everyone but will with some and will be with like minded people who r there bcoz they have the desire to stay sober and clean,u go girl and keep it simple.u dont even have to do the twelve steps but they strongly recommend it but do it when u r ready...eckie...bonnie scotland...
Izzy -- Great question, and not an easy answer. The good news is Yes you can work the program if you dont believe in GOD, that is to say GOD as you understand him/her at this time. The deal is the concept that "I" need something other then my present state of mind to GUIDE me thru this process as "I" (and most all others) have not been able to deal with the problem of my addiction.
The bad news is AA is made up of people, people at differant states of growth, and a comman part of the growth is the "Born Again" concept. You know one is so over joyed that they have been "saved", able to overcome their problem and they want to save the world, want to get you to see and that often results in them saying things that scare many away and many of those then proclaim AA to be a Cult. Many people, as in very many have been scared away from the program due to the GOD issue.
Others have mentioned some very good things here, namely AA is a spirtual program. What I did in the beginning (as I was totally repulsed to religion) was I used the GROUP as a power greater then myself, a power outside myself. I was EXTREMELY lucky as there was nowhere else for me to go. I was in a country where I did not speak the laungage and it was 1980. So for me it was death or AA. There were all kinds of reasons I could pick in order to not stay with AA. That by the way is why some maintain that AA will not work until you hit bottom (I do not agree at all with that by the way).
Today I am a RECOVERED alcohol and live a life of growth and wonder, the total opposite of how I was living before coming into AA. I can also assure you my understanding of GOD has gone thru vast changes as I have grown the last 28 years. Stopping drinking was the most important thing I have done in my life, it was the first thing I needed to do in order to enjoy life and become successful.
This is my first post, so hello to everyone.....
The bad news is AA is made up of people, people at differant states of growth, and a comman part of the growth is the "Born Again" concept. You know one is so over joyed that they have been "saved", able to overcome their problem and they want to save the world, want to get you to see and that often results in them saying things that scare many away and many of those then proclaim AA to be a Cult. Many people, as in very many have been scared away from the program due to the GOD issue.
Others have mentioned some very good things here, namely AA is a spirtual program. What I did in the beginning (as I was totally repulsed to religion) was I used the GROUP as a power greater then myself, a power outside myself. I was EXTREMELY lucky as there was nowhere else for me to go. I was in a country where I did not speak the laungage and it was 1980. So for me it was death or AA. There were all kinds of reasons I could pick in order to not stay with AA. That by the way is why some maintain that AA will not work until you hit bottom (I do not agree at all with that by the way).
Today I am a RECOVERED alcohol and live a life of growth and wonder, the total opposite of how I was living before coming into AA. I can also assure you my understanding of GOD has gone thru vast changes as I have grown the last 28 years. Stopping drinking was the most important thing I have done in my life, it was the first thing I needed to do in order to enjoy life and become successful.
This is my first post, so hello to everyone.....
Welcome, CanMexDave. Glad you're here.
I've heard more 'unheardof' GOD things since being in AA than I ever realized existed outside the 'religious' world. Good Orderly Direction was one that absolutely shook up my world, because I'd been trying to find a Higher Power since My Mother's God was stuffed into me. Some OldTimer in a meeting once said, "You need to get you a different god because the one you got's keeping you DRUNK." BLASPHEMY!! Another one said, "I needed to pray to a TREE for the first part of my sobriety 'cause I certainly wasn't going to worship nobody," and so forth. My sponsor said, "Think of it this way: You're walking to work everyday, and everyday some guy comes out and beats the tar out of you. If you had, say, a CLUB, you'd have a power greater than just yourself, and you might be able to defeat the troll. Better yet, if you had a whole group of people, you'd have a Power Greater Than Yourself, and you'd stand a very good chance of making it."
Well DUH! A Higher Power needn't be your mothers' god. It need only be acknowledged--there'll be plenty of time for He/She/It to present itself to a sober mind later on...
Welcome, Dave--Keep Coming Back.
I've heard more 'unheardof' GOD things since being in AA than I ever realized existed outside the 'religious' world. Good Orderly Direction was one that absolutely shook up my world, because I'd been trying to find a Higher Power since My Mother's God was stuffed into me. Some OldTimer in a meeting once said, "You need to get you a different god because the one you got's keeping you DRUNK." BLASPHEMY!! Another one said, "I needed to pray to a TREE for the first part of my sobriety 'cause I certainly wasn't going to worship nobody," and so forth. My sponsor said, "Think of it this way: You're walking to work everyday, and everyday some guy comes out and beats the tar out of you. If you had, say, a CLUB, you'd have a power greater than just yourself, and you might be able to defeat the troll. Better yet, if you had a whole group of people, you'd have a Power Greater Than Yourself, and you'd stand a very good chance of making it."
Well DUH! A Higher Power needn't be your mothers' god. It need only be acknowledged--there'll be plenty of time for He/She/It to present itself to a sober mind later on...
Welcome, Dave--Keep Coming Back.
