I just wanted you to know that I was thinking about you today. I really hate it when one of our memembers is hurting, especially one who is so nice and giving.
I hope that you're able to get some much needed peace and rest today. Maybe do something for you? If I was there, we'd be shopping right now.
Take care sweetheart....
Lisa
Thanks Lisa. I feel much better today than yesterday. You were right about the difference a day can make. I posted an update about my dad on the other thread.
I am still hurting and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But, I do have high hopes for some peace and serenity today. Even retail therapy doesn't help much these days. I have too much stuff as it is.
I am going to look for another counselor, or make an appointment with one of my old ones, and get out some of the self help books I have but haven't read. My self esteem and worth are at an all time low and I need to work on changing that.
I'd like to try and tackle some of the codependency going on here, but maybe later. My moods and emotions are going to be affected by my husband for at least a little while longer, and i have no way to prevent that. We often can co-exist together without speaking or fighting, so maybe that will be the case. He was planning to move to our other, now vacant, house in the first week or two of January. Then he changed his mind and decided counseling might be worth a try. After his ice cold conversation yesterday, and doubts that we will work anything out, I am hoping he decides to go ahead and move there.
It's all a lot to take, but I am better today than I was yesterday. Maybe because I know my dad is safe and sober for the moment, and that I have until late tomorrow night to be alone.
Thanks for asking about me.
I am still hurting and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But, I do have high hopes for some peace and serenity today. Even retail therapy doesn't help much these days. I have too much stuff as it is.
I am going to look for another counselor, or make an appointment with one of my old ones, and get out some of the self help books I have but haven't read. My self esteem and worth are at an all time low and I need to work on changing that.
I'd like to try and tackle some of the codependency going on here, but maybe later. My moods and emotions are going to be affected by my husband for at least a little while longer, and i have no way to prevent that. We often can co-exist together without speaking or fighting, so maybe that will be the case. He was planning to move to our other, now vacant, house in the first week or two of January. Then he changed his mind and decided counseling might be worth a try. After his ice cold conversation yesterday, and doubts that we will work anything out, I am hoping he decides to go ahead and move there.
It's all a lot to take, but I am better today than I was yesterday. Maybe because I know my dad is safe and sober for the moment, and that I have until late tomorrow night to be alone.
Thanks for asking about me.
Good Morning Atlas,Lisa.
I just got back from Surfside but I read about your dad Atlas.I'm glad you talked to him.I think that was a real good move.
That story of him cutting himself and crawling through the window....Geez...been there,have the scars to prove it.
Atlas,you just keep telling him that you love him but don't do any guilt trips.This has to play out with him.Offer him support but once the drinking starts up.....get the f*ck out.Don't give him drinking buddies.Alcoholics and addicts both love an audience and can get into these self pity trips and drag everyone down with them.You have enough emotional stuff going on now with your partner.
Even his buddies in AA will back off once the drinking starts.
He knows exactly what he's doing and I can guarantee you he is not enjoying it.
AA will f*ck up your drinking big time.When I would go on a binge with booze,I would start some pretty pathetic sh*t.I remember being in one bar and screaming "See how well AA works"!!! until they threw my a** out.
It may get ugly before it gets better but something has to give.Like any alcoholic or addict that is in the middle of a relapse,there is not a lot they will hear.However,sometimes a big hug and a "I love you" is all it takes to get the message across.You always remember that.Everything else seems superfluous.
Hang in there
I just got back from Surfside but I read about your dad Atlas.I'm glad you talked to him.I think that was a real good move.
That story of him cutting himself and crawling through the window....Geez...been there,have the scars to prove it.
Atlas,you just keep telling him that you love him but don't do any guilt trips.This has to play out with him.Offer him support but once the drinking starts up.....get the f*ck out.Don't give him drinking buddies.Alcoholics and addicts both love an audience and can get into these self pity trips and drag everyone down with them.You have enough emotional stuff going on now with your partner.
Even his buddies in AA will back off once the drinking starts.
He knows exactly what he's doing and I can guarantee you he is not enjoying it.
AA will f*ck up your drinking big time.When I would go on a binge with booze,I would start some pretty pathetic sh*t.I remember being in one bar and screaming "See how well AA works"!!! until they threw my a** out.
It may get ugly before it gets better but something has to give.Like any alcoholic or addict that is in the middle of a relapse,there is not a lot they will hear.However,sometimes a big hug and a "I love you" is all it takes to get the message across.You always remember that.Everything else seems superfluous.
Hang in there
Atlas,
I haven't spoken with you in a long time, sounds like tough times. Write me if u still have my e-mail.
I haven't spoken with you in a long time, sounds like tough times. Write me if u still have my e-mail.
Tim,
I hear ya loud and clear and you are right. I'm sure AA does tend to put a damper on a drinking binge. I mentioned in the other thread that his AA buddy he had confided in, ended up leaving him because he continued to drink throughout the day. He had help available to him, but he drank until the help had to get the f*** out. His choice. He could have accepted that help, but he didn't want it and he knew just how to push it away.
About guilt trips.....I try to avoid them, but I have learned from the best. My family rules the world of guilt trips. Small ones, big ones, all kinds of guilt trips over just about anything. Everything in my family is a guilt trip. The women are best, but my dad can lay them on thick too.
I recognized them for what they are a long time ago. I try very hard to not let them affect me, and to not reciprocate them. However, I will express my personal feelings on any subject. If it happens to cause the person I am conversing with to feel guilty, too bad. As long as I am not intentionally dishing out guilt, then it is on them.
Case in point: My dad. He may feel guilty today for what he did to himself, and frankly he should. I felt I needed to inform him that I need both my parents to be emotionally available to me right now, because I do. I felt the need to define emotionally available, which included him being of sound mind and sober. If he feels guilty, tough s***. It's still not even a tiny fraction of the guilt he will feel, all on his own without a single word from me, when he too drunk to function.
I think I'll call mom and see how the day is going for them. Thanks for all your support.
I hear ya loud and clear and you are right. I'm sure AA does tend to put a damper on a drinking binge. I mentioned in the other thread that his AA buddy he had confided in, ended up leaving him because he continued to drink throughout the day. He had help available to him, but he drank until the help had to get the f*** out. His choice. He could have accepted that help, but he didn't want it and he knew just how to push it away.
About guilt trips.....I try to avoid them, but I have learned from the best. My family rules the world of guilt trips. Small ones, big ones, all kinds of guilt trips over just about anything. Everything in my family is a guilt trip. The women are best, but my dad can lay them on thick too.
I recognized them for what they are a long time ago. I try very hard to not let them affect me, and to not reciprocate them. However, I will express my personal feelings on any subject. If it happens to cause the person I am conversing with to feel guilty, too bad. As long as I am not intentionally dishing out guilt, then it is on them.
Case in point: My dad. He may feel guilty today for what he did to himself, and frankly he should. I felt I needed to inform him that I need both my parents to be emotionally available to me right now, because I do. I felt the need to define emotionally available, which included him being of sound mind and sober. If he feels guilty, tough s***. It's still not even a tiny fraction of the guilt he will feel, all on his own without a single word from me, when he too drunk to function.
I think I'll call mom and see how the day is going for them. Thanks for all your support.
Hi Chris, good to see you. I don't think I have your email anymore, but I'd love to hear from you. My email has changed it is atlasgirl264@yahoo.com. drop me a line if you get a chance.
How's school and work? Or maybe you graduated. I'm trying to remember, weren't you working on your master's in social work? I'm planning to go back to school in the near future and thought about studying social work or psychology or both. I still may, but I'm leaning heavily toward graphic design. I hope all is well with you.
How's school and work? Or maybe you graduated. I'm trying to remember, weren't you working on your master's in social work? I'm planning to go back to school in the near future and thought about studying social work or psychology or both. I still may, but I'm leaning heavily toward graphic design. I hope all is well with you.
Atlas...It's always easier giving someone advice about what they need to do with their family.LOL
It's a tough deal because of all the history and emotions involved.You probably are doing a stellar job and not realizing it.
If your dad is drinking,he is not emotionally available to you no matter how much you need it.Use your mom and therapist.
I really would like to see you participate in some Alanon meetings.
With a sister&dad both using,you are a prime candidate.You would also meet other people with the same issues.It's just more support.
Keep Your Chin Up.
It's a tough deal because of all the history and emotions involved.You probably are doing a stellar job and not realizing it.
If your dad is drinking,he is not emotionally available to you no matter how much you need it.Use your mom and therapist.
I really would like to see you participate in some Alanon meetings.
With a sister&dad both using,you are a prime candidate.You would also meet other people with the same issues.It's just more support.
Keep Your Chin Up.
I'll consider buying the alanon book, but the meetings aren't going to happen as long as I live in this town. I don't like living in this town and the people here are very different than all the other places I have ever lived. Some call it a small town, I call it a narrow town. It's the only place I have ever been and been unable to connect with a lot of people.
People just do not move here, they grow up and move away from here. "Outsiders" don't get a warm reception, we are few and far between. I tried a couple of AA meetings and wasn't welcomed, but trust me, it is not limited to that. It's everything here. It's difficult to explain, but it isn't in my head. Others here understand it too.
But maybe I should buy the book. I don't know much about alanon, but I have a lot of uninformed stereotypes that swirl in my head. I'm sure it would benefit me and help me to grow if I learned about alanon.
People just do not move here, they grow up and move away from here. "Outsiders" don't get a warm reception, we are few and far between. I tried a couple of AA meetings and wasn't welcomed, but trust me, it is not limited to that. It's everything here. It's difficult to explain, but it isn't in my head. Others here understand it too.
But maybe I should buy the book. I don't know much about alanon, but I have a lot of uninformed stereotypes that swirl in my head. I'm sure it would benefit me and help me to grow if I learned about alanon.
Maybe there is something on-line too.
Another book that's been around awhile is"Codependent No More"
It can be a little pedantic but it's a great read to help understand family dynamics.It also deals with marriage and relationships.
The whole codependency deal has been over used in 12th step circles IMO but it still has relevance.
Another book that's been around awhile is"Codependent No More"
It can be a little pedantic but it's a great read to help understand family dynamics.It also deals with marriage and relationships.
The whole codependency deal has been over used in 12th step circles IMO but it still has relevance.
I've only recently learned what codependency actually is. It was Teresa, here on the board, who started the thinking process. Then I did some reading and research on my own. I had a lot of misconceptions about it, and I had never considered that it could apply to ME...LOL I still have a lot to learn. Especially how to NOT be codependent, when the person I am codependent upon has so many issues of their own, such as anger and outbursts, emotional abuse and untreated ADD. I still can't understand how anyone could NOT be affected by it.
Atlas:
In my case...the co-dependency started because I lived with a man (married 10.5 years to him) that was very much like you described. Bad fits of anger, moodiness, rage, blah, blah, etc.
Of course I became co-dependent. I had to become at least somewhat responsible for his bad behavior, because otherwise, he would have been intolerable. It took me a long time to wake up. He was (probably still is) an insufferable b******. I didn't really understand how the dance went until I had some hindsight. I learned a lot in those first six months. I wouldn't trade what I gained...no matter how painful and hard that time as...for anything in the world. I am so glad that I learned because, we are destined to repeat the pattern unless we figure out how it works.
You see, I came from a family with its share of dysfunctions too. Not alcohol or drug related, but my Mother, God Bless her, is bi-polar, manic depressive. Man, we grew up in a very strange land sometimes...and my father, was a real man...a stand by your woman kind of man. He never left her side, always cleaning up the bizaar messes she would make. Don't get me wrong...she had her powerful, beautiful side...but it definitely got weird. He was just solid love and compassion...that was his nature...but it also was very co-dependent.
I learned from them both, and she had rageful violent outbursts...a part of her illness, no doubt, but they trained me as well....and I sought a man that filled the role of my mother, while I played the role of my Father.
None of this made sense to me until I got some distance from my husband...and could see the bigger picture. I was young when I married, 29 when I separated and 30 when I divorced...so I definitely had a more mature perspective and could deal with what I was discovering.
This journey of self-discovery has been such an exciting thing for me. Sure, it was born of pain...but, I dug in even deeper, and I am the better for it. I am remarried to a wonderful man...a lot like my Father, very kind, very patient. He has given me safe space in our home...to do a lot of soul searching and digging for answers. You know, that is just the main point right there...our homes...the places where we rest and live...This space should be safe. That means physical safety and emotional safety...Every human being alive deserves that. Not all of us have it, but, it is definitely something we should go to the ends of the earth to create for ourselves.
I am praying for you to have that safe space Atlas....be it with or without your husband. I know you will be vigilant...YOU DESERVE IT!
Keep your chin up if you can babe. These are dark days for you...I know it, but I am so proud of you for reaching out...not keeping it all inside. That in and of itself is so very admirable...let that make you feel good about yourself!
Love you Atlas,
Sarah
In my case...the co-dependency started because I lived with a man (married 10.5 years to him) that was very much like you described. Bad fits of anger, moodiness, rage, blah, blah, etc.
Of course I became co-dependent. I had to become at least somewhat responsible for his bad behavior, because otherwise, he would have been intolerable. It took me a long time to wake up. He was (probably still is) an insufferable b******. I didn't really understand how the dance went until I had some hindsight. I learned a lot in those first six months. I wouldn't trade what I gained...no matter how painful and hard that time as...for anything in the world. I am so glad that I learned because, we are destined to repeat the pattern unless we figure out how it works.
You see, I came from a family with its share of dysfunctions too. Not alcohol or drug related, but my Mother, God Bless her, is bi-polar, manic depressive. Man, we grew up in a very strange land sometimes...and my father, was a real man...a stand by your woman kind of man. He never left her side, always cleaning up the bizaar messes she would make. Don't get me wrong...she had her powerful, beautiful side...but it definitely got weird. He was just solid love and compassion...that was his nature...but it also was very co-dependent.
I learned from them both, and she had rageful violent outbursts...a part of her illness, no doubt, but they trained me as well....and I sought a man that filled the role of my mother, while I played the role of my Father.
None of this made sense to me until I got some distance from my husband...and could see the bigger picture. I was young when I married, 29 when I separated and 30 when I divorced...so I definitely had a more mature perspective and could deal with what I was discovering.
This journey of self-discovery has been such an exciting thing for me. Sure, it was born of pain...but, I dug in even deeper, and I am the better for it. I am remarried to a wonderful man...a lot like my Father, very kind, very patient. He has given me safe space in our home...to do a lot of soul searching and digging for answers. You know, that is just the main point right there...our homes...the places where we rest and live...This space should be safe. That means physical safety and emotional safety...Every human being alive deserves that. Not all of us have it, but, it is definitely something we should go to the ends of the earth to create for ourselves.
I am praying for you to have that safe space Atlas....be it with or without your husband. I know you will be vigilant...YOU DESERVE IT!
Keep your chin up if you can babe. These are dark days for you...I know it, but I am so proud of you for reaching out...not keeping it all inside. That in and of itself is so very admirable...let that make you feel good about yourself!
Love you Atlas,
Sarah
I wrote you already....but want to wish you a happy new year, a better year...just in case I don't chat with u soon.
atlas
get the book tim told you about, it is the best book i ever read that described me to a tee
her book is what inspired me to start attending co dependants anonymous meetings, they don't exist anymore around here in my home town and that is so sad cuz the whole world is filled with co-dependants. it was thru a coda sponsor that i got the courage to set boundaries with people i was people pleasing... you will be amazed how much her book describes you and i. her book is what has gotton me to where i am today, i have learned to say no when i mean no instead of replying yes when i meant no!
her book made me not to be embarrassed of compliments or presents from people. she taught me how to stop abandoning myself for the sake of others happiness. good read definately! i wonder if there are co dependant anonymous meetings in your area,, just curious, i understood what you posted about not feeling comfortable in your town. atlas where do you live? for some reason i want to say hawaii? am i correct? love julie
get the book tim told you about, it is the best book i ever read that described me to a tee
her book is what inspired me to start attending co dependants anonymous meetings, they don't exist anymore around here in my home town and that is so sad cuz the whole world is filled with co-dependants. it was thru a coda sponsor that i got the courage to set boundaries with people i was people pleasing... you will be amazed how much her book describes you and i. her book is what has gotton me to where i am today, i have learned to say no when i mean no instead of replying yes when i meant no!
her book made me not to be embarrassed of compliments or presents from people. she taught me how to stop abandoning myself for the sake of others happiness. good read definately! i wonder if there are co dependant anonymous meetings in your area,, just curious, i understood what you posted about not feeling comfortable in your town. atlas where do you live? for some reason i want to say hawaii? am i correct? love julie
Notfeelingclever thanks for sharing that story about your relationship. How amazing it is that we learn such roles and apply them to our lives, sometimes not even realizing that we're doing it!
You obviously have an incredible ammount of intuition and inner strength. My Mother was Bi-Polar as well, and I'm just now (in my 20s) starting to learn about what it is and how it may have affected me through therapy. I'm not sure what I'll find, but I hope I can come out sounding as good and as strong as you do.
I'm sorry you had to go through such a relationship to get to where you are, but thank goodness you made it through. Congratulations on your success, and your new Husband, and thanks for helping me see that other humans struggle far more than I do, and sound WAY more positive, too.
Hey Atlas, good for you for being open to doing research on your own in order to gain better insight. That's a good quality, and I think it shows accountability. I hear you loud and clear about the family guilt trips, loud and clear. I sure hope you get some rest this weekend.
You obviously have an incredible ammount of intuition and inner strength. My Mother was Bi-Polar as well, and I'm just now (in my 20s) starting to learn about what it is and how it may have affected me through therapy. I'm not sure what I'll find, but I hope I can come out sounding as good and as strong as you do.
I'm sorry you had to go through such a relationship to get to where you are, but thank goodness you made it through. Congratulations on your success, and your new Husband, and thanks for helping me see that other humans struggle far more than I do, and sound WAY more positive, too.
Hey Atlas, good for you for being open to doing research on your own in order to gain better insight. That's a good quality, and I think it shows accountability. I hear you loud and clear about the family guilt trips, loud and clear. I sure hope you get some rest this weekend.
Excellent repllies all and after helping so many others, I'm so glad to see that Atlas is getting the attention she so richly deserves. (((Hugs to all))))))) and particularly Lisa who started this thread. Nice going for your cybersister!!
Atlas...so happy to hear that you're feeling a little better. Isn't amazing what a day can make? But honey, you have more on your plate than most people I know and it's going to be so easy to self destruct if you don't take care of you first. Back when I first got clean I didn't realize just how much resentment I held against my dad and then my family as a whole. I had so much guilt and self hate on top of it. A book was suggested and I swear it was the first one I could actually wrap my brain around. It's called:
The dance of Anger
There are so many good books out there, this one just seemed to speak to me.
I'm sending good strong thoughts your way...I haven't been feeling too sharp so I apologize for not being around much. I'll go read the update on your dad now.
I just have a good feeling that the people in your dad's AA group aren't going to give up on him anytime too soon. Yes, they'll back off as long as he's self destructive drinking, but the minute he holds out a hand, they'll be there waiting.
Just curious, how far is it to the next town? Maybe find an alanon meeting there? Might be worth the drive. Driving always helps me think, I love to just get in the car and go....
Big hugs girl, chin up.
Lisa
The dance of Anger
There are so many good books out there, this one just seemed to speak to me.
I'm sending good strong thoughts your way...I haven't been feeling too sharp so I apologize for not being around much. I'll go read the update on your dad now.
I just have a good feeling that the people in your dad's AA group aren't going to give up on him anytime too soon. Yes, they'll back off as long as he's self destructive drinking, but the minute he holds out a hand, they'll be there waiting.
Just curious, how far is it to the next town? Maybe find an alanon meeting there? Might be worth the drive. Driving always helps me think, I love to just get in the car and go....
Big hugs girl, chin up.
Lisa
