Thanks for introducing yourself, Clancy. I was a cocaine binger back in the 80's as well, but when I got married and moved away from my playground, I eventually stopped. No spiritual awakening for me, unfortunately, lol....I think I began to substitute with pills, and my drinking seemed to increase. I was able to put down the drink for good (so far) in March '91, but the pain pills have been what has prevented me from putting more than 5 years of sobriety together at a time. I'm curious how you're tolerating the Oxycontin, and whether there's a real attraction to the "high" that it can give. I've kind of accepted that I'll always have that, for now and forever....
As for the recent stuff on the Board, well, it seems to me that it happens every couple of months (at least for the past 6), with different antagonists and sometimes different players. The Board works best when we offer our personal experience and try to keep our egos and opinions out of it, but we're all human. I sure as hell am, and I have trouble following my own advice most of the time. Also, the written word is a poor substitute for face-to-face interaction, too easily misunderstood, especially when we're vulnerable and hurting. If you stick around long enough, though, sometimes the people at odds with each other today end up being online friends down the road...or at least they reach a respectful understanding ......I've been amazed at some of the reconciliations....forged in battle, so to speak. lol. I hope that happens this time. Principles before personalities, and all that. Peace, M.
Clancy, while I appreciate the sentiments and sincerity of your post, I believe that there are two things that might change your outlook on this issue a bit.
First, speaking as someone who was on the pain meds for cancer pain, I respect what you are going through, but I also found that I had a lot more tolerance for folks while the drugs were still in my system. When people come off these drugs, they go through enormous mood changes and it takes a long time to get things back in check. When I came off them, I was flummoxed with the lengths to which many will go to get permission on this board to keep using. My personal belief is that this board is not a good place for people to engage in this conduct, and like you, I am entitled to that belief, right or wrong.
Secondly, a tenent of AA and NA is that those who have recieved the same grace that you have exeperienced are charged to go out and help others, and most who get the program really try to do this because they are so grateful for the relief they have recieved. This also puts them in the line of fire with a lot of people whose thinking remains very screwed up from years of addictive using. It is easy for those who put themselves on the front line of this struggle to lose patience from time to time.
The group think cuts both ways and as I mentioned in my earlier note, many get very threatened when their "sacred cow" gets threatened.
While I respect your sentiments, I would urge you to walk a mile (or perhaps a 100) in the shoes of those who come here to help the others. The are not perfect, but they really do try. Again, I reiterate, in my case, I give the benefit of the doubt to those who come on this board day after day and really do help others. It is easy to monday morning quarterback these things but a little more difficult to place oneself in the middle of the action.
You might also consider leading by example and helping out with some of the more troublesome personalities. It is always easy to see the mote in another's eye, after all.
Sincerely,
August
First, speaking as someone who was on the pain meds for cancer pain, I respect what you are going through, but I also found that I had a lot more tolerance for folks while the drugs were still in my system. When people come off these drugs, they go through enormous mood changes and it takes a long time to get things back in check. When I came off them, I was flummoxed with the lengths to which many will go to get permission on this board to keep using. My personal belief is that this board is not a good place for people to engage in this conduct, and like you, I am entitled to that belief, right or wrong.
Secondly, a tenent of AA and NA is that those who have recieved the same grace that you have exeperienced are charged to go out and help others, and most who get the program really try to do this because they are so grateful for the relief they have recieved. This also puts them in the line of fire with a lot of people whose thinking remains very screwed up from years of addictive using. It is easy for those who put themselves on the front line of this struggle to lose patience from time to time.
The group think cuts both ways and as I mentioned in my earlier note, many get very threatened when their "sacred cow" gets threatened.
While I respect your sentiments, I would urge you to walk a mile (or perhaps a 100) in the shoes of those who come here to help the others. The are not perfect, but they really do try. Again, I reiterate, in my case, I give the benefit of the doubt to those who come on this board day after day and really do help others. It is easy to monday morning quarterback these things but a little more difficult to place oneself in the middle of the action.
You might also consider leading by example and helping out with some of the more troublesome personalities. It is always easy to see the mote in another's eye, after all.
Sincerely,
August
Hi Rachel
Thank you for your warm welcome. I've wanted to stick my nose in the door here for some time now and say hello, just not under these circumstances!
Your comment about taking a step back daily, reviewing and making ammends is brilliant. Is that the 10th step? I need to get a hold of that Big book. Sounds like it's principles mirror the "other" big book, which cannot be a bad thing.
As I re-read my comments & yours about everyone DESERVING respect, I think I may need to make a small but important change. My parents taught me that respect is something you earn. However, given this format , perhaps everyone should be given respect at first irregardless. It's up to them to try and keep it.
Name calling and bringing up "clean time" and usage is never to be ok in my book. This group is the last resort for many people and they become very vulnerable in opening up and airing all their dirty laudry so to speak. To have their failures they confessed used as a weapon against them at a later date is just plain wrong and serves no purpose than to deliberatly hurt. I am the last person that should ever wear my clean time as a badge of honor for the sole use of having it allow me to serve as jude and jury in their character trial.
So, thanks Rachel for the welcome. These are just my opinions you know. But I have been there, so I do have a bit of time on the job! I am very shy by nature and these warm welcomes mean so much to me. Thank you for writing and God Bless!
Clancy
Thank you for your warm welcome. I've wanted to stick my nose in the door here for some time now and say hello, just not under these circumstances!
Your comment about taking a step back daily, reviewing and making ammends is brilliant. Is that the 10th step? I need to get a hold of that Big book. Sounds like it's principles mirror the "other" big book, which cannot be a bad thing.
As I re-read my comments & yours about everyone DESERVING respect, I think I may need to make a small but important change. My parents taught me that respect is something you earn. However, given this format , perhaps everyone should be given respect at first irregardless. It's up to them to try and keep it.
Name calling and bringing up "clean time" and usage is never to be ok in my book. This group is the last resort for many people and they become very vulnerable in opening up and airing all their dirty laudry so to speak. To have their failures they confessed used as a weapon against them at a later date is just plain wrong and serves no purpose than to deliberatly hurt. I am the last person that should ever wear my clean time as a badge of honor for the sole use of having it allow me to serve as jude and jury in their character trial.
So, thanks Rachel for the welcome. These are just my opinions you know. But I have been there, so I do have a bit of time on the job! I am very shy by nature and these warm welcomes mean so much to me. Thank you for writing and God Bless!
Clancy
Good Morning M
So you were in the "cocaine party" time too!? Love the way you refer to that place as a playground!! I can totally relate to that because I played on the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami cocaine playground..pretty hard core place. Luckily after the spiritual change I became pregnant-twice, which helped alot in keeping me away from drugs altogether, plus I also moved away from the glayground to the midwest!! Great for sobriety, not good for partying, which was good for me! My Pete & Lenny's became the "Aglow Christian Womens Group"!! haha~
As far as oxycontin goes, I know the dangers there and the opportunity for abuse. I couldn't abuse it if I wanted to cause then I'd be short at the end of the month and would not be able to bear the pain level without them. Keeps me honest. Do you battle this drug? It's sure wicked.
The board, I've been watching and learning since July/August. I get what you're saying about the friendships and it seems to be true. The ONLY thing that needs to be monitered in my thinking is that the "friends" don't become a gang and go after someone that posts, whether right or wrong, just to back their friend. Respect is so important and seems to shine through even in the written word on a computer as do loving words. I like what you wrote "principles before personalities". That is an excellent saying.
Thanks...great talking to you & for making me feel welcomed here.
Clancy
So you were in the "cocaine party" time too!? Love the way you refer to that place as a playground!! I can totally relate to that because I played on the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami cocaine playground..pretty hard core place. Luckily after the spiritual change I became pregnant-twice, which helped alot in keeping me away from drugs altogether, plus I also moved away from the glayground to the midwest!! Great for sobriety, not good for partying, which was good for me! My Pete & Lenny's became the "Aglow Christian Womens Group"!! haha~
As far as oxycontin goes, I know the dangers there and the opportunity for abuse. I couldn't abuse it if I wanted to cause then I'd be short at the end of the month and would not be able to bear the pain level without them. Keeps me honest. Do you battle this drug? It's sure wicked.
The board, I've been watching and learning since July/August. I get what you're saying about the friendships and it seems to be true. The ONLY thing that needs to be monitered in my thinking is that the "friends" don't become a gang and go after someone that posts, whether right or wrong, just to back their friend. Respect is so important and seems to shine through even in the written word on a computer as do loving words. I like what you wrote "principles before personalities". That is an excellent saying.
Thanks...great talking to you & for making me feel welcomed here.
Clancy
Clancy and all,
August,once again, with eloquence far superior to my own, I must 'ditto' your comments. Your wisedom is so refreshing.
Clancy, while just after I read your post I was about to feel guilty and ashamed for myself and others, it occurred to me that the people that we were are mostly talking about did and continue to recieve 'warm fuzzies' from a wealth of others on this board. The wonderful part of this board and NA/AA is the mix you get both. But warm fuzzies are just not my style... I am not that way... I do not go out of my way to be mean or insulting and I do, as does cowgirl, until provoked, we try to cloke most of our 'tough love' in some soft covering... but.. there are limits.. There is an inherent danger in giving tooo much warm fuzzies and as August said until you have been around the block with eyes wide open, you cant really see the really clever ways some will try to get others to condone their using.
Having said all that, yes words can be very powerful. They can either help people see the light and reality for what it is and get well and live or... they can enable others to stay in there own darkness giving them permission to stay sick and eventually cost them there lives....
It is hard to know what tpye of love is the right course... God is about love and forgiveness but there is more to love than chocolate hearts and lollipops... when it comes to recovery it is a hard road.
What started all this the other day if you will recall was an inappropiate question that might have been misunderstood by my self and cowgirl. After answering it and adding a comment, I was directly attacked. Then I tried to answer it although, I incorrectly answered it and was directly insulted on my ability to help others in recovery.... I appologized for the wrong answer... the writer then poceeded to attack cowgirl for coming to my defense and agreeing with me on my assessment of the merits of the initial question..
Now my thinking on this is this and the only reason I bring it up ... if this person had quickly gotten the answer .. no that drug wont show up... not called on the deeper issue 'but that is not recovery'.. ( taking the easy way out .. ) and something would have happened would that brand of 'love' have been best for them ... ? I feel the reason that question was posed was that person was looking for some justification and also to rest there mind that they wouldnt get caught... they then got defensive when called on it... someone truely thinking on the recovery path might have said ....'you know you are right..maybe i ought to give this some thought or when I appologized for my mistake simply said ok... '
anyway... i made my amends..
If you feel like you can help with your warm fuzzies with recovery then join right in... I truely hope so... some of the rest of us are getting tired.... oh and btw I am not superior by no means and I too wear my heart on my sleave. You dont know the number of times I leave this board after someone I have gotten to know has relapsed and cried for them, like marie . I want us all the succeed.. . All I have is today.
God Bless you.
Teresa
August,once again, with eloquence far superior to my own, I must 'ditto' your comments. Your wisedom is so refreshing.
Clancy, while just after I read your post I was about to feel guilty and ashamed for myself and others, it occurred to me that the people that we were are mostly talking about did and continue to recieve 'warm fuzzies' from a wealth of others on this board. The wonderful part of this board and NA/AA is the mix you get both. But warm fuzzies are just not my style... I am not that way... I do not go out of my way to be mean or insulting and I do, as does cowgirl, until provoked, we try to cloke most of our 'tough love' in some soft covering... but.. there are limits.. There is an inherent danger in giving tooo much warm fuzzies and as August said until you have been around the block with eyes wide open, you cant really see the really clever ways some will try to get others to condone their using.
Having said all that, yes words can be very powerful. They can either help people see the light and reality for what it is and get well and live or... they can enable others to stay in there own darkness giving them permission to stay sick and eventually cost them there lives....
It is hard to know what tpye of love is the right course... God is about love and forgiveness but there is more to love than chocolate hearts and lollipops... when it comes to recovery it is a hard road.
What started all this the other day if you will recall was an inappropiate question that might have been misunderstood by my self and cowgirl. After answering it and adding a comment, I was directly attacked. Then I tried to answer it although, I incorrectly answered it and was directly insulted on my ability to help others in recovery.... I appologized for the wrong answer... the writer then poceeded to attack cowgirl for coming to my defense and agreeing with me on my assessment of the merits of the initial question..
Now my thinking on this is this and the only reason I bring it up ... if this person had quickly gotten the answer .. no that drug wont show up... not called on the deeper issue 'but that is not recovery'.. ( taking the easy way out .. ) and something would have happened would that brand of 'love' have been best for them ... ? I feel the reason that question was posed was that person was looking for some justification and also to rest there mind that they wouldnt get caught... they then got defensive when called on it... someone truely thinking on the recovery path might have said ....'you know you are right..maybe i ought to give this some thought or when I appologized for my mistake simply said ok... '
anyway... i made my amends..
If you feel like you can help with your warm fuzzies with recovery then join right in... I truely hope so... some of the rest of us are getting tired.... oh and btw I am not superior by no means and I too wear my heart on my sleave. You dont know the number of times I leave this board after someone I have gotten to know has relapsed and cried for them, like marie . I want us all the succeed.. . All I have is today.
God Bless you.
Teresa
clancy,
while I was posting.. you posted again and addressed this issue of clean time... please explain this to me... I really dont understand what you mean.. There are some on this board that are not clean or have less than thirty days and really come down on some of us that have years or at some point have had years like we dont know what we are talking about... This really puzzles me...I have never said that a relapse could not be a good learning tool but you must be willing to learn ... I must disagress that clean time is significant and relevant in the context of humility and resolve. I agree that it is not to be used as a weapon per say and it should not be thrown in others faces but ....The same is true of those of us that have years... the one that do not have years are less apt to listen to the 'ole timers'....
Teresa
while I was posting.. you posted again and addressed this issue of clean time... please explain this to me... I really dont understand what you mean.. There are some on this board that are not clean or have less than thirty days and really come down on some of us that have years or at some point have had years like we dont know what we are talking about... This really puzzles me...I have never said that a relapse could not be a good learning tool but you must be willing to learn ... I must disagress that clean time is significant and relevant in the context of humility and resolve. I agree that it is not to be used as a weapon per say and it should not be thrown in others faces but ....The same is true of those of us that have years... the one that do not have years are less apt to listen to the 'ole timers'....
Teresa
Hey Teresa...
Clancy, while I appreciate your comments and opinions, I'm still a little confused about your remarks. But at this point, it doesn't matter because we all need to move on from this little bump in the road and get back to recovery. It isn't important as to who said what..just suffice it to say that if you are in the middle of a contervesy or slander you just might change your tune. And yes you were part of the slander, which is why I'm a little confused because you claim to be a Christian. You came out of left field and attacked my character not even knowing me or what I'm about. Is that the Christian thing to do?
The difference between you and those of us that HAVE to be clean and DON"T get to take drugs for the rest of our lives (oh yea, even with 6 months clean and never wanting to take pills again, I still get angry and resentful that I can't. That's my addict.) is that you have meds on board, which makes you not who you really are. If you were a normal person without addictive personalities, you wouldn't be here.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this except that I'm frustrated and confused over your posts. I wish that you had the time to go back and read all of the earlier posts..I think you would see the pattern, the love and the results.
Cowgirl
Clancy, while I appreciate your comments and opinions, I'm still a little confused about your remarks. But at this point, it doesn't matter because we all need to move on from this little bump in the road and get back to recovery. It isn't important as to who said what..just suffice it to say that if you are in the middle of a contervesy or slander you just might change your tune. And yes you were part of the slander, which is why I'm a little confused because you claim to be a Christian. You came out of left field and attacked my character not even knowing me or what I'm about. Is that the Christian thing to do?
The difference between you and those of us that HAVE to be clean and DON"T get to take drugs for the rest of our lives (oh yea, even with 6 months clean and never wanting to take pills again, I still get angry and resentful that I can't. That's my addict.) is that you have meds on board, which makes you not who you really are. If you were a normal person without addictive personalities, you wouldn't be here.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this except that I'm frustrated and confused over your posts. I wish that you had the time to go back and read all of the earlier posts..I think you would see the pattern, the love and the results.
Cowgirl
Dear August:
Thank you very much for your insight, I've always appreciated your wisdom and insight in dealing with other peoples issues on this board.
I agree that there is nothing easier than Monday morning quarterbacking. It must be difficult to keep a smiling game face on & repeat the same mantra over and over again, praying that is will sink into this one. I do respect, enormously the amount of time and effort that many people put in on these boards, passing on the gift you've been given...a second chance. It's impossible to hold it inside when you find the answer, it would be unfair not to. I only wish that if one that's about to give advice to a confrontational person would have a cup of coffee, stretch, something you would do to relax before posting then possibly it would come out easier for the new person to swallow, then their walls wouldn't automatically come up against what you had to say.
No one is perfect, least of all me - but I know pain when I see it and I know viciousness when I see it and I've seen more than I can say here on this recovery board. But I not only have a plank in my eye, I have the entire mote! haha! I have been accused of being judgemental and am working on that daily. Just ask my husband, haha!
I see that you have earned a great deal of respect from your peers here. Maybe I will get the opportunity first hand to find out why. As far as leading by example...was that an invitation?! Just wanted to start me out by throwing me into the deep end huh August? :-) You wouldn't enjoy watching me drown now would you???
Just out of curiosity, what is your educational background? You speak like my sister in law, the psychiatrist and my brother-in-law the doctor of criminology at Michigan. Just want to know what I'm dealing with here! I've read your posts, and while educated myself, I find some of the things way over my head. (That would not be too hard believe me!)
Thanks again for your viewpoints and guidance to help me understand and I will incorporate them into my analysis of daily situations here on the board as well as in my life here at home.
God grant you a speedy recovery. Thanks for listening and responding.
Clancy
Thank you very much for your insight, I've always appreciated your wisdom and insight in dealing with other peoples issues on this board.
I agree that there is nothing easier than Monday morning quarterbacking. It must be difficult to keep a smiling game face on & repeat the same mantra over and over again, praying that is will sink into this one. I do respect, enormously the amount of time and effort that many people put in on these boards, passing on the gift you've been given...a second chance. It's impossible to hold it inside when you find the answer, it would be unfair not to. I only wish that if one that's about to give advice to a confrontational person would have a cup of coffee, stretch, something you would do to relax before posting then possibly it would come out easier for the new person to swallow, then their walls wouldn't automatically come up against what you had to say.
No one is perfect, least of all me - but I know pain when I see it and I know viciousness when I see it and I've seen more than I can say here on this recovery board. But I not only have a plank in my eye, I have the entire mote! haha! I have been accused of being judgemental and am working on that daily. Just ask my husband, haha!
I see that you have earned a great deal of respect from your peers here. Maybe I will get the opportunity first hand to find out why. As far as leading by example...was that an invitation?! Just wanted to start me out by throwing me into the deep end huh August? :-) You wouldn't enjoy watching me drown now would you???
Just out of curiosity, what is your educational background? You speak like my sister in law, the psychiatrist and my brother-in-law the doctor of criminology at Michigan. Just want to know what I'm dealing with here! I've read your posts, and while educated myself, I find some of the things way over my head. (That would not be too hard believe me!)
Thanks again for your viewpoints and guidance to help me understand and I will incorporate them into my analysis of daily situations here on the board as well as in my life here at home.
God grant you a speedy recovery. Thanks for listening and responding.
Clancy
Hi Clancy, thanks for your thoughtful response.
Nah, I wouldnt watch you drown. Fact is that my heart sank when this entire thing blew up as it related to one particular person. That person is in deep, deep pain, and I am familiar with that persons patterns as they relate to the disease of addiction. In my business, I try to read the tea leaves for tell-tell signs that mark substantial changes in direction (sorry for being cryptic here, but I do not wish to make accusations) and I saw a resumption of a fact pattern that has repeated itself many times on this board. This is really not the forum to get into that deep psyche stuff, but I can tell you the warm fuzzy approach had played out with that person, and it was time to set some limits, at least IMHO. That does not mean that I was rightwe all make errors in judgment, we all view the world through a somewhat defective instrument. Nonetheless, I have gained enough experience to trust my instincts in this area even when others might feel justified in questioning my words or actions.
My invitation for you to jump in was a sincere one. When I was grappling with my pain med use during my treatments last year, it really helped me to roll up my shirtsleeves and try to work with others. As you may have noted, Cowgirl and I have both been on this site for awhile, and I have watched her grow enormously in the last several months as she bottomed out and then started that difficult climb toward reclaiming her life. I am very proud of her and enjoy watching her grow. Recovery from addiction is, after all, a life long journey. Having said that, dealing with people with addiction issues is essentially an exercise in dealing with egomaniacs with inferiority complexes. It is not easy work, and those who have been there seem to be the only ones with true insight as to the issues. Sometimes we speak in loving terms to the inferiority complex side of this equation, at others, we must address the egomaniac side of things. It is tricky and in my experience, no one does it perfectly. Nonetheless, despite our imperfect efforts a few do get sober by grasping what makes sense to them and leaving the rest. No single approach works best for everyone.
The hidden secret of this kind of service work is that in time, the one delivering the service becomes increasingly aware of their personal deficiencies and has opportunity to work on their personal growth. Sponsors often laugh about the irony of this. Sponsors often get more out of the process than the person in early recovery. This was the genesis of my speck in the eye comment. As we say in AA, if you spot it, you got it.
My background is no great secret on this board (neither is any other aspect of my life for that matter). I am a lawyer with a financial background. I work in tax, business, and corporate law and essentially negotiate for a living. In that context, sometimes I play the nice guy, and sometimes the bad guy, sometimes the smart guy and sometimes the dumb guy, depending on what I need to do bring the parties together and close the deal. It is fun, and I am fond of saying that I got most of my training for this kind of work within the confines of AA. After all, if you can get along with a bunch of alcoholics and addicts, dealing with real world is a piece of cake!
Lastly, thanks for the good wishes on my health. I wish the same for you. Pain medication use is very complex to me, because there are situations where the use is very warranted, but for me, the notion of using them in a controlled fashion was a unique challenge. It was so much easier when I simply quit alcohol, pot, and cocaineabstinence and daily maintenance of my spiritual condition is the only real solution for someone who was as far gone as I.
I wish you all the best in your endeavors. I will say that I am in remission, and despite occasional stabs of pain from the cancerous area, I have not had to take the pain meds for several months now. I hope that you reach a light at the end of your tunnel, but I also understand the need for the meds in the context of chronic pain.
I look forward to enjoying your posts in the coming days and weeks.
August
Nah, I wouldnt watch you drown. Fact is that my heart sank when this entire thing blew up as it related to one particular person. That person is in deep, deep pain, and I am familiar with that persons patterns as they relate to the disease of addiction. In my business, I try to read the tea leaves for tell-tell signs that mark substantial changes in direction (sorry for being cryptic here, but I do not wish to make accusations) and I saw a resumption of a fact pattern that has repeated itself many times on this board. This is really not the forum to get into that deep psyche stuff, but I can tell you the warm fuzzy approach had played out with that person, and it was time to set some limits, at least IMHO. That does not mean that I was rightwe all make errors in judgment, we all view the world through a somewhat defective instrument. Nonetheless, I have gained enough experience to trust my instincts in this area even when others might feel justified in questioning my words or actions.
My invitation for you to jump in was a sincere one. When I was grappling with my pain med use during my treatments last year, it really helped me to roll up my shirtsleeves and try to work with others. As you may have noted, Cowgirl and I have both been on this site for awhile, and I have watched her grow enormously in the last several months as she bottomed out and then started that difficult climb toward reclaiming her life. I am very proud of her and enjoy watching her grow. Recovery from addiction is, after all, a life long journey. Having said that, dealing with people with addiction issues is essentially an exercise in dealing with egomaniacs with inferiority complexes. It is not easy work, and those who have been there seem to be the only ones with true insight as to the issues. Sometimes we speak in loving terms to the inferiority complex side of this equation, at others, we must address the egomaniac side of things. It is tricky and in my experience, no one does it perfectly. Nonetheless, despite our imperfect efforts a few do get sober by grasping what makes sense to them and leaving the rest. No single approach works best for everyone.
The hidden secret of this kind of service work is that in time, the one delivering the service becomes increasingly aware of their personal deficiencies and has opportunity to work on their personal growth. Sponsors often laugh about the irony of this. Sponsors often get more out of the process than the person in early recovery. This was the genesis of my speck in the eye comment. As we say in AA, if you spot it, you got it.
My background is no great secret on this board (neither is any other aspect of my life for that matter). I am a lawyer with a financial background. I work in tax, business, and corporate law and essentially negotiate for a living. In that context, sometimes I play the nice guy, and sometimes the bad guy, sometimes the smart guy and sometimes the dumb guy, depending on what I need to do bring the parties together and close the deal. It is fun, and I am fond of saying that I got most of my training for this kind of work within the confines of AA. After all, if you can get along with a bunch of alcoholics and addicts, dealing with real world is a piece of cake!
Lastly, thanks for the good wishes on my health. I wish the same for you. Pain medication use is very complex to me, because there are situations where the use is very warranted, but for me, the notion of using them in a controlled fashion was a unique challenge. It was so much easier when I simply quit alcohol, pot, and cocaineabstinence and daily maintenance of my spiritual condition is the only real solution for someone who was as far gone as I.
I wish you all the best in your endeavors. I will say that I am in remission, and despite occasional stabs of pain from the cancerous area, I have not had to take the pain meds for several months now. I hope that you reach a light at the end of your tunnel, but I also understand the need for the meds in the context of chronic pain.
I look forward to enjoying your posts in the coming days and weeks.
August
August,
For right now I will give you a simple BIG THANK YOU!! To be honest I thought that of all, you would be the hardest on me. In fact you are not! I have a major fence to mend, so I need to get busy mending! I hope that we can become e-friends and to be honest...you will be only the 2nd lawyer that I've liked in my life! haha! Nope, take that back, third!! Bet you never heard any of this before, so I will stop while I'm ahead.
Again, really August, thanks.
clancy
For right now I will give you a simple BIG THANK YOU!! To be honest I thought that of all, you would be the hardest on me. In fact you are not! I have a major fence to mend, so I need to get busy mending! I hope that we can become e-friends and to be honest...you will be only the 2nd lawyer that I've liked in my life! haha! Nope, take that back, third!! Bet you never heard any of this before, so I will stop while I'm ahead.
Again, really August, thanks.
clancy
Clancy,
Hi very nice posts. A quick hello to August and Teresa as well. Cowgirl, hi, I hope your feeling better, I posted to you on another thread I started and I just wanted to say hello and I hope things are going well for you.
Clancy,
I used to post here much more often than I do these days for the reasons you posted about in your first post here on this thread. I was also one that had a hard time letting go and always trying to prove my point and in doing so said things I found I always had to come back and make amends for. Well things for me are going very well now as far as my serenity is concerned. I've been working on me. I'm always reminded by my sponsor when I get upset or ticked off that I should always remember that maybe I'm the only person that someone looking to get clean and or sober might meet thats in a program of recovery.
And I should always try to conduct myself in a matter that would hopefully make someone who is on the fence between using and recovery think to themselves they want what I have gotten through a recovery program. Thats why
it's said it's a program of attraction. I have failed at that example many times.
If someone was thinking about trying A.A. or N.A. etc. and then saw me claiming I was in A.A. and then read a post I made out of anger it could really turn someone off. So now I try the best I can to represent in a positive light a program of recovery, for me A.A..
So when I see something that rubs me wrong now I ask myself first...
"How Important Is It" then I remind myself I too was right where, who ever it may be, is at. Then I remind myself.."Live And Let Live" and "Let It Go".
I didn't read the posts where this latest debate got started, and I don't intend to, and for my own peace of mind it's best I don't.
Anyway, I agree with you, and I hope to get to know you as well, thanks again.
Take care.......................................God bless.....................................Bob
Hi very nice posts. A quick hello to August and Teresa as well. Cowgirl, hi, I hope your feeling better, I posted to you on another thread I started and I just wanted to say hello and I hope things are going well for you.
Clancy,
I used to post here much more often than I do these days for the reasons you posted about in your first post here on this thread. I was also one that had a hard time letting go and always trying to prove my point and in doing so said things I found I always had to come back and make amends for. Well things for me are going very well now as far as my serenity is concerned. I've been working on me. I'm always reminded by my sponsor when I get upset or ticked off that I should always remember that maybe I'm the only person that someone looking to get clean and or sober might meet thats in a program of recovery.
And I should always try to conduct myself in a matter that would hopefully make someone who is on the fence between using and recovery think to themselves they want what I have gotten through a recovery program. Thats why
it's said it's a program of attraction. I have failed at that example many times.
If someone was thinking about trying A.A. or N.A. etc. and then saw me claiming I was in A.A. and then read a post I made out of anger it could really turn someone off. So now I try the best I can to represent in a positive light a program of recovery, for me A.A..
So when I see something that rubs me wrong now I ask myself first...
"How Important Is It" then I remind myself I too was right where, who ever it may be, is at. Then I remind myself.."Live And Let Live" and "Let It Go".
I didn't read the posts where this latest debate got started, and I don't intend to, and for my own peace of mind it's best I don't.
Anyway, I agree with you, and I hope to get to know you as well, thanks again.
Take care.......................................God bless.....................................Bob
<message removed>
dear liz
you made your point so please stop being so mean. i thought you were leaving anyway? please remember that this site is about recovery and not a popularity contest. if you are mad at cowgirl please refrain from publicly stating it here.
EarthDog
you made your point so please stop being so mean. i thought you were leaving anyway? please remember that this site is about recovery and not a popularity contest. if you are mad at cowgirl please refrain from publicly stating it here.
EarthDog
<message removed>
Hi Cowgirl,
This is the fourth email I've tried to write & am having a difficult time writing the right words and feelings.
Let me start off with an apology for the other night. I was just mad at the whole comment made to that guy...I didn't see what he had written to you and to Theresa, it was, I think. I had just hit a wall with all the mean comments and had to say something about the way I saw the board heading again. I had so enjoyed how sweet and nonconfrontational it had become and it was so great! But let me clarify...I was not attacking you I was making an observation that it seemed like a threat. Like you said though...that is something that we can put behind us, I apologize for hurting you. But don't think that because I have had a beautiful spiritual experience that I can walk on water...I'm still learning, everyday. People always act like if you say you're a Christian that you have to be perfect. Perfect I am not! I had a spiritual experience that delievered me from the stronghold of drugs and brought me closer to God. I'm sorry if I made Him look bad through my behavior. He knows I'm a work in progress!
Let me back up some here, you said I came out of left field, actually I have been coming to this site for 3-4 months, maybe you said something about that...but I feel like I know all of you. It has been part of my day...to see how everyone is doing. After my experience, I felt like I had a calling on my life to help others get off drugs. I never followed through with it because of my shyness. Maybe this is the forum that will work for me. Who knows. All I do know is that I felt like I knew all of you, and I have read your posts for the past 3-4 months. I have seen the good you have done and the arguements, which I'm guessing is part of the tough love treatment. I guarantee you that I am who I am! You said that I was not who I really am, that if I were a "normal" person I wouldn't be here"! Not normal? A little harsh there? I'm automatically labeled an addict because I have to take pain medication and I like to come to this website and read? And I am not in denial either, ok?
I only mentioned the fact that I have to be on medication because that is what brought me to this site in the first place. I do not take drugs recreationally. They do not do anything in my life but control my pain.
Man, this is NOT how I wanted this post to go. I totally intended to be able to explain things like I had on the other posts and that you would understand. I have never been in a situation like this before and it unusual for me. THIS is why I didn't want to ever post here, just learn.
I wish that it were easier with you Cowgirl cause I do think I could learn alot from you...but I don't see us becoming friends which is too bad. I see that I have hurt your feelings and I'm sorry for that. I don't feel like I attacked your character, but that is all just how you look at it. We all have different views. I see that there are alot of people on here that love and respect you so you really don't need me as a friend. If we can just agree to disagree we'll be okay. I promise that I won't come out of left field ever again, you know who I am and what I'm about. I won't talk about you in other posts, I hope that you can honor the same. I would like to try, but if it isn't possible for you then I respect that. I just don't want any fights to go on between you and I that I have wittnessed on this site between others. I couldn't stand that. I would just as soon sit on the sidelines and just watch and read like I had done before. I just thought I should explain my actions since I had obviously hurt people and that is not my normal character.
I wish you joy and happiness and success in life! You have worked hard to get where you are and you should be proud! Keep up the good work and keep on helping others!
Clancy
This is the fourth email I've tried to write & am having a difficult time writing the right words and feelings.
Let me start off with an apology for the other night. I was just mad at the whole comment made to that guy...I didn't see what he had written to you and to Theresa, it was, I think. I had just hit a wall with all the mean comments and had to say something about the way I saw the board heading again. I had so enjoyed how sweet and nonconfrontational it had become and it was so great! But let me clarify...I was not attacking you I was making an observation that it seemed like a threat. Like you said though...that is something that we can put behind us, I apologize for hurting you. But don't think that because I have had a beautiful spiritual experience that I can walk on water...I'm still learning, everyday. People always act like if you say you're a Christian that you have to be perfect. Perfect I am not! I had a spiritual experience that delievered me from the stronghold of drugs and brought me closer to God. I'm sorry if I made Him look bad through my behavior. He knows I'm a work in progress!
Let me back up some here, you said I came out of left field, actually I have been coming to this site for 3-4 months, maybe you said something about that...but I feel like I know all of you. It has been part of my day...to see how everyone is doing. After my experience, I felt like I had a calling on my life to help others get off drugs. I never followed through with it because of my shyness. Maybe this is the forum that will work for me. Who knows. All I do know is that I felt like I knew all of you, and I have read your posts for the past 3-4 months. I have seen the good you have done and the arguements, which I'm guessing is part of the tough love treatment. I guarantee you that I am who I am! You said that I was not who I really am, that if I were a "normal" person I wouldn't be here"! Not normal? A little harsh there? I'm automatically labeled an addict because I have to take pain medication and I like to come to this website and read? And I am not in denial either, ok?
I only mentioned the fact that I have to be on medication because that is what brought me to this site in the first place. I do not take drugs recreationally. They do not do anything in my life but control my pain.
Man, this is NOT how I wanted this post to go. I totally intended to be able to explain things like I had on the other posts and that you would understand. I have never been in a situation like this before and it unusual for me. THIS is why I didn't want to ever post here, just learn.
I wish that it were easier with you Cowgirl cause I do think I could learn alot from you...but I don't see us becoming friends which is too bad. I see that I have hurt your feelings and I'm sorry for that. I don't feel like I attacked your character, but that is all just how you look at it. We all have different views. I see that there are alot of people on here that love and respect you so you really don't need me as a friend. If we can just agree to disagree we'll be okay. I promise that I won't come out of left field ever again, you know who I am and what I'm about. I won't talk about you in other posts, I hope that you can honor the same. I would like to try, but if it isn't possible for you then I respect that. I just don't want any fights to go on between you and I that I have wittnessed on this site between others. I couldn't stand that. I would just as soon sit on the sidelines and just watch and read like I had done before. I just thought I should explain my actions since I had obviously hurt people and that is not my normal character.
I wish you joy and happiness and success in life! You have worked hard to get where you are and you should be proud! Keep up the good work and keep on helping others!
Clancy
Bob,
Wow, thank you for seeing it exactly for how I intended!!! I've been on this computer all morning long trying my hardest to make that very point!
It does turn new people off when they see the infighting and then they go away and what good does that do?? That's really the core of my point. I can't tell you what a relief it is to not be attacked and have people actually understand what I mean! Thank you thank you thank you!
It's so hard to write feeling down on the computer and have them transfer to the hearts and minds to those that are reading them!
I look forward to speaking with you again.
God Bless
Clancy
Wow, thank you for seeing it exactly for how I intended!!! I've been on this computer all morning long trying my hardest to make that very point!
It does turn new people off when they see the infighting and then they go away and what good does that do?? That's really the core of my point. I can't tell you what a relief it is to not be attacked and have people actually understand what I mean! Thank you thank you thank you!
It's so hard to write feeling down on the computer and have them transfer to the hearts and minds to those that are reading them!
I look forward to speaking with you again.
God Bless
Clancy
dear liz
if you remember anything at all the moderators already told you that i am not "sharon" way back when you were stirring up trouble another time. they also informed you that this site was NOT for name calling and nasty comments. i am sorry that this thread which was so eloquently started must included your meanness. once again, please stop.
regards, EarthDog
if you remember anything at all the moderators already told you that i am not "sharon" way back when you were stirring up trouble another time. they also informed you that this site was NOT for name calling and nasty comments. i am sorry that this thread which was so eloquently started must included your meanness. once again, please stop.
regards, EarthDog
Hello Liz, (for some reason I couldn't post under my other name so made a new one). I'd like to nicely and tactfully explain something to you and I hope you take it in the manner it is intended. I for one, am not a follower of cowgirl. I am her friend. Friendship is a beautiful thing. I know her well enough to tell you she is a very bright, caring, and insightful human being. Your anger is really showing, and it will only hurt you, Liz. I've only got two months clean time under my belt, so when people ahead of me teach me....I listen. They know what works. I find that if you show people respect, and are willing to absorb what they teach you, in turn, you get their respect too. Their desire is to give back what they have, but they have to have a willing recipiant. You're harming yourself or at the very least cheating yourself, out of much wisdom and experience. I needed the tough love of folks like Lisa and Sharon, it saved me. But you know what? I don't see that tough side anymore. All they show me is love and guidance and the truest blessing of sincere friendship. Wouldn't you like that too? Wouldn't you like to be willing to to gain such a valuable blessing? It won't happen for you as long as you stay mad. You sort of have to earn the warm fuzzies. I have those now and it's great. But in the beginning, I had to be put in my place, shown what I had to do, and show that I was willing to listen and try my best. I wanted recovery so badly, that I was more than willing to face whatever I had to. In school we have to respect our teachers, they are there for our own good, same thing applies here. Feeling attacked sucks, I know, I've been there. But you can rise above it. Show people the good in you, if you feel hurt, instead of lashing out, just say you feel hurt. People in recovery don't HAVE to come here, they CHOSE to. If all of us came here and there was no way to teach us, how would we be helped? We form bonds with those people. No, it's not a gang. It's a group with a common goal. Hopefully one day, you will be on the other side of that fence. You will see the frustration of trying to help. I hope this helps you, Liz. I hope it makes it possible for you not to show your dislike. The very people you dislike right now, you might adore later on. Good luck, Kat
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Hi Clancy,
Yes it's hard sometimes when you can't hear the tone of someones voice. The written word can be taken so many different ways. Anyway, I'd love to chat with ya'. There is a post I made here, it's addressed to Teresa, click on that thread if ya' want, at the bottom of the post is a link "Recovery Friends" if you want to,
click on it, join our group and stop in the chat, a few of us are their now. I'll keep an eye out for your name so I can except ya'. I don't know how long we'll be there. kids get home soon. But stop by if you want.
Take care.................................God bless........................................Bob
Yes it's hard sometimes when you can't hear the tone of someones voice. The written word can be taken so many different ways. Anyway, I'd love to chat with ya'. There is a post I made here, it's addressed to Teresa, click on that thread if ya' want, at the bottom of the post is a link "Recovery Friends" if you want to,
click on it, join our group and stop in the chat, a few of us are their now. I'll keep an eye out for your name so I can except ya'. I don't know how long we'll be there. kids get home soon. But stop by if you want.
Take care.................................God bless........................................Bob
